I am really amused by all the posts, since everyone (majority) are giving Palm a hard time because it is direct competitor of iPhone and how dare a company use Apple's code to infiltrate the iTunes.
BUt Google Voice which replaces some of the core functions of iPhone, a number of people posting here have called foul on Apple for not approving the apps.
I see no difference from what Google is doing from Palm, except Palm are being very stupid by trying to make Apple look like the bad guy...wait is that not what Google is doing as well.
Hmm double standards! maybe
I actually want Palm Pre to success, so Apple have to innovate a better iPhone for consumers and Google Voice can kiss my ass, I will use Skype.
Not at all the same thing! Google is "replacing some of the core functions of iPhone" by writing its own program. So yeah, you can "make a 'phone call'" with a Google app; and you can with Skype and Truphone and I suppose others.
Google is not hacking the iPhone so that when you go to the regular built-in phoning function and make a phone call you can do it through Google instead of your regular carrier on your SIM card account.
People are saying the Google app should be approved because the carrier should be open to competition -- that since you are already paying ATT for "unlimited data", you should be able to use your data bandwidth in this way. How is this making Apple look bad? These apps add value to the iPhone. It makes ATT service look bad. Now, if Google was trying to sell its hardware Gphone or whatever by using as a selling point that it syncs fully and smoothly with iTunes just as though it was an iPhone, I think there would be a little bit of a problem.
If Apple said, "hey we can give you Google Maps and Google search on your iPod or iPhone without the ads, because we have figured out how to hack straight into Google's servers without using their publicly released APIs, then you can bet there would be a problem!
There is no double standard, because people are calling for Palm to do the same as Google (and as Blackberry has already done with your iTunes library) -- WRITE THEIR OWN PROGRAM. Good grief, how hard is that to understand!
Palm is not only trying to access your library, which is legitimate and allowed by Apple; they are trying to take advantage of the user experience that Apple has carefully crafted and developed for its own devices. They want the automatic sync with smart playlists, and unwatched podcasts, and everything else. These are part of the selling point and differentiation of Apple's iPods and iPhones. And Palm is using Apple's uniquely assigned USB ID to achieve it.
Considering how vindictive Steve is known to be, I'm willing to bet that there'll be a security update or something coming down relatively soon that really messes with Palm. Now that they are intentionally violating USB protocol by claiming to be an iPod (after the review), Apple can take the gloves off and end it. It's just a matter of how long it'll take to find a way that makes it a permanent break for the Pre.
Yep, my first post here. BTW, I have 3 Mac's and we have 5 iPods in the house. Big Palm Fanboy. lol.
"indifference of carriers?" Uh. You're smoking it. In Europe and around the world carriers have been bidding for the Pre. And as soon as an analyst said that Verizon had decided to pass on it a Verizon executive came out and said "no way! We will get it in January!" You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, I would love to see them adapt Songbird and build an Amazon Mp3 store plug-in. But spending an hour on this every couple of months is not keeping them from doing that. Maybe they are? Who knows.
But Palm does not look like a stalker to me. I think they are getting a good laugh at Apple's expense. I am.
Man you got all that? You must be a real Apple supporter. Man, you sound sad thinking that owning apple branded hardware is some sort of credential. As if anybody here cares whether you have any macs or iPods whatsoever. The only problem is that your point of view is wrong and hard to defend. No matter how many macs and iPods you have. As I read, you don't have an iPhone. Which leads me to think that you are now so much regretting you bought a pre instead of an iPhone. Which by the way, does sync with iTunes just as it should do. If I were a Pre owner I'ld be so upset. That a company who promises me synergy with my iTunes collection. But really it's just an on and off feature because they are trying to give me functionality through some other companies back door. I would say. Palm get your act together and give me a stable solution.
You might not see this. But this burglar where people keep referring to is not only Apples intruder. But also yours. They (Palm) got your money with a promise they knew they couldn't keep. They robed you. Now when Palm is not coming through for you. You still have to get your iPod and listen to that new song you just bought. Next time think different.
Seriously, on syncing, i struggled for so many years to sync Now-Up-To-Date and other app content to my macs, it's a gift today to have Mail and AB and the rest sync so nicely. If only I could get my iPhone address book to sync with the contact list on my car's bluetooth phone system. Does anyone know any make/model of car that makes that easily do-able? Do-able at all?
People have forgotten how serious an issue syncing data on the phone and computer used to be before the iPhone. Don't let anyone get away with saying that iTunes sync is not a big deal or a legitimate reason to choose one phone over another. As for car syncing, I suspect that Apple will one day release a version of iTunes for the car. After all, there are already iDevice docks built into cars. Who knows what the future might bring. One thing's for certain, if Palm is still in business when it happens, they will try to hack that too and claim that it is everyone's god given right to have iTunes car-sync.
It would be a ridiculous over-reaction that says more about the general nastiness of the shooter than it does the burglar, and often leads to the complete destruction of everything the shooter was trying to defend in the first place.
Agreed. iTunes has got along just fine with third-party devices with drag/drop and XML access to the library. It would be a huge over-reaction to stomp on all third-party devices.
Apple's beef is with Palm, since Palm is the only one hacking the system instead of using the methods Apple provides. In my view the only decent Apple response is to simply break the Pre's syncing (well, Palm's syncing, since presumably the upcoming Pixie will use it as well) in their next update. No need to do any more than that.
I do NOT believe Apple should sue Palm. Frankly, I've come to think this is what Palm is hoping for. I can't but feel they're a little desperate, and poking Apple with a stick looking for them to do something Palm can really cry about.
Palm is still hoping for public support on this. I can see why, given some of the moronic comments I've seen all over the net.
People have forgotten how serious an issue syncing data on the phone and computer used to be before the iPhone. Don't let anyone get away with saying that iTunes sync is not a big deal or a legitimate reason to choose one phone over another. As for car syncing, I suspect that Apple will one day release a version of iTunes for the car. After all, there are already iDevice docks built into cars. Who knows what the future might bring. One thing's for certain, if Palm is still in business when it happens, they will try to hack that too and claim that it is everyone's god given right to have iTunes car-sync.
Exactly. People supporting Palm in this are acting like 1) the Pre has a right to the same consideration on the Apple platform / software as an Apple product does; and 2) that this would be good for Apple.
As though it would be good for Apple to say, "hey guys, buy whatever phone you want but come and use our great software with it, because afterall, it's free. Then maybe, just maybe everyone will see what nice guys we are and buy a Mac on that basis, even though they have already demonstrated themselves to be cheapskates with delusions of entitlement."
Apple doesn't make money on iTunes, it makes money on phones and computers. Why are people buying those phones and computers? Because they offer an experience that is superior to the competition, and a real value for money because (besides quality and longer life of the product) the software bundled with them is easier to use and more productive.
If a person chooses a Pre for whatever reason (no local ATT service or something I would imagine), then they need to accept it doesn't have the advantages that an Apple phone using Apple software will have. Get over it. If a person chooses a Pre to spite Apple, then they are just cutting their own nose off and they have bigger issues than just being in the odd position of rejecting an Apple product but eagerly clamoring to get preferential treatment from Apple's free software instead.
Of course Apple would like to have their ITunes exclusive for their products! And, they may have certain right to this (according to law in most countries) but when the ITunes becomes a large monopoly (in part because they force all users of ipods/iphones to use any software you want as long as it is the slow an grand ITunes hog...) then authorities will force them to stop! Why? It is uncompetetive behaviour and illegal!
Just to be clear, I own 3 macs and an Iphone which are great things! Still I thing palm should use all the power, force and ingenuity they can muster to crack the monopolistic anti-competetive apple tactics!
Frankly Apple can take the competition whithout being a bully! BTW there is no secure solution to lock out anything (like ITunes media library) from a private computer when you have root access. If you do not want to spoof as ipod there are many other ways to rip the ITunes library. I think Apple is surely loosing the fight to google and other "open standard champions" if the continue this fight. In the end they will be forced by law and then they will look very stupid!
The missing sync apparently works with the Pre. If I had a Pre, I'd buy that. Legit way around it all. Save a headache. Maybe Palm can buy Mark/Space to save the Prez' butt.
Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.
Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.
The issue is Palm's Pre using Apple's USB vendor number to trick iTunes, which is a blatant violation of the USB-F regulations. Basically, it's a hacker move - not something a legitimate company should be doing - and it's illegal. Apple allows third party devices to sync with iTunes (ex. the BlackBerry Desktop Sync Application), but for whatever reason Palm chose not to go that route. Palm is in deep $#!T here.
Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.
My friend the hypocrisy it yours. Blackberry and others use XML and on system software to sync their devices with iTunes. Palm did it better by loading the software on the Pre and getting iTunes to sync w/o a middleman on the desktop.
Apple decides to repeatedly block Palm but ignores Samsung, Blackberry, etc...
Uh, is it because Palm does it better and has a real iPhone challenger? Or is it because Steve is petty and still pissed at John?
It's probably one of those.
The Palm's syncing with iTunes doesn't hurt Apple anymore than Blackberry sync does. But Apple differentiates and treats them differently. I think that says something about Apple.
I dont see why you guys are being such a** holes, especially apple! dont get me wrong i love apple currently have a imac g4 24 inch (intel based),I 16gig iphone 3G, mac mini and a hackintosh.
It does to me. I never seen a company with so much disregard well as respect for using another company credentials to use with their product. Palm needs to go bankrupt and close it doors forever! They have no more creativity nor originality.
They're just trying to give their Apple owning users seamless support for the media application that Apple owners use.
Interoperability is the best legal argument they will have when this goes to court. Reverse engineering for the purposes of interoperability is quite legal (in progressive countries anyway) if undertaken in a specific manner.
I would expect that the law would override an ad-hoc "forum".
Regardless, Palm should have developed a media sync using the iTunes XML file and iSync or similar (like the Blackberry Sync application) by now. They have to show some attempt at doing things the friendly way instead of being aggressive, because they're aggressive like a tiny wee beastie against a raptor. They could then fight the interoperability argument from a higher moral position.
Comments
I am really amused by all the posts, since everyone (majority) are giving Palm a hard time because it is direct competitor of iPhone and how dare a company use Apple's code to infiltrate the iTunes.
BUt Google Voice which replaces some of the core functions of iPhone, a number of people posting here have called foul on Apple for not approving the apps.
I see no difference from what Google is doing from Palm, except Palm are being very stupid by trying to make Apple look like the bad guy...wait is that not what Google is doing as well.
Hmm double standards! maybe
I actually want Palm Pre to success, so Apple have to innovate a better iPhone for consumers and Google Voice can kiss my ass, I will use Skype.
Not at all the same thing! Google is "replacing some of the core functions of iPhone" by writing its own program. So yeah, you can "make a 'phone call'" with a Google app; and you can with Skype and Truphone and I suppose others.
Google is not hacking the iPhone so that when you go to the regular built-in phoning function and make a phone call you can do it through Google instead of your regular carrier on your SIM card account.
People are saying the Google app should be approved because the carrier should be open to competition -- that since you are already paying ATT for "unlimited data", you should be able to use your data bandwidth in this way. How is this making Apple look bad? These apps add value to the iPhone. It makes ATT service look bad. Now, if Google was trying to sell its hardware Gphone or whatever by using as a selling point that it syncs fully and smoothly with iTunes just as though it was an iPhone, I think there would be a little bit of a problem.
If Apple said, "hey we can give you Google Maps and Google search on your iPod or iPhone without the ads, because we have figured out how to hack straight into Google's servers without using their publicly released APIs, then you can bet there would be a problem!
There is no double standard, because people are calling for Palm to do the same as Google (and as Blackberry has already done with your iTunes library) -- WRITE THEIR OWN PROGRAM. Good grief, how hard is that to understand!
Palm is not only trying to access your library, which is legitimate and allowed by Apple; they are trying to take advantage of the user experience that Apple has carefully crafted and developed for its own devices. They want the automatic sync with smart playlists, and unwatched podcasts, and everything else. These are part of the selling point and differentiation of Apple's iPods and iPhones. And Palm is using Apple's uniquely assigned USB ID to achieve it.
Yep, my first post here. BTW, I have 3 Mac's and we have 5 iPods in the house. Big Palm Fanboy. lol.
"indifference of carriers?" Uh. You're smoking it. In Europe and around the world carriers have been bidding for the Pre. And as soon as an analyst said that Verizon had decided to pass on it a Verizon executive came out and said "no way! We will get it in January!" You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, I would love to see them adapt Songbird and build an Amazon Mp3 store plug-in. But spending an hour on this every couple of months is not keeping them from doing that. Maybe they are? Who knows.
But Palm does not look like a stalker to me. I think they are getting a good laugh at Apple's expense. I am.
Man you got all that? You must be a real Apple supporter. Man, you sound sad thinking that owning apple branded hardware is some sort of credential. As if anybody here cares whether you have any macs or iPods whatsoever. The only problem is that your point of view is wrong and hard to defend. No matter how many macs and iPods you have. As I read, you don't have an iPhone. Which leads me to think that you are now so much regretting you bought a pre instead of an iPhone. Which by the way, does sync with iTunes just as it should do. If I were a Pre owner I'ld be so upset. That a company who promises me synergy with my iTunes collection. But really it's just an on and off feature because they are trying to give me functionality through some other companies back door. I would say. Palm get your act together and give me a stable solution.
You might not see this. But this burglar where people keep referring to is not only Apples intruder. But also yours. They (Palm) got your money with a promise they knew they couldn't keep. They robed you. Now when Palm is not coming through for you. You still have to get your iPod and listen to that new song you just bought. Next time think different.
Seriously, on syncing, i struggled for so many years to sync Now-Up-To-Date and other app content to my macs, it's a gift today to have Mail and AB and the rest sync so nicely. If only I could get my iPhone address book to sync with the contact list on my car's bluetooth phone system. Does anyone know any make/model of car that makes that easily do-able? Do-able at all?
People have forgotten how serious an issue syncing data on the phone and computer used to be before the iPhone. Don't let anyone get away with saying that iTunes sync is not a big deal or a legitimate reason to choose one phone over another. As for car syncing, I suspect that Apple will one day release a version of iTunes for the car. After all, there are already iDevice docks built into cars. Who knows what the future might bring. One thing's for certain, if Palm is still in business when it happens, they will try to hack that too and claim that it is everyone's god given right to have iTunes car-sync.
I have no problem at all with your point of view (other than the username "masstrkiller"--I'm hoping you're a gamer!
Yes I am
Thank you for noticing.
You know it *would* be like "shooting a burglar."
It would be a ridiculous over-reaction that says more about the general nastiness of the shooter than it does the burglar, and often leads to the complete destruction of everything the shooter was trying to defend in the first place.
Agreed. iTunes has got along just fine with third-party devices with drag/drop and XML access to the library. It would be a huge over-reaction to stomp on all third-party devices.
Apple's beef is with Palm, since Palm is the only one hacking the system instead of using the methods Apple provides. In my view the only decent Apple response is to simply break the Pre's syncing (well, Palm's syncing, since presumably the upcoming Pixie will use it as well) in their next update. No need to do any more than that.
I do NOT believe Apple should sue Palm. Frankly, I've come to think this is what Palm is hoping for. I can't but feel they're a little desperate, and poking Apple with a stick looking for them to do something Palm can really cry about.
Palm is still hoping for public support on this. I can see why, given some of the moronic comments I've seen all over the net.
People have forgotten how serious an issue syncing data on the phone and computer used to be before the iPhone. Don't let anyone get away with saying that iTunes sync is not a big deal or a legitimate reason to choose one phone over another. As for car syncing, I suspect that Apple will one day release a version of iTunes for the car. After all, there are already iDevice docks built into cars. Who knows what the future might bring. One thing's for certain, if Palm is still in business when it happens, they will try to hack that too and claim that it is everyone's god given right to have iTunes car-sync.
Exactly. People supporting Palm in this are acting like 1) the Pre has a right to the same consideration on the Apple platform / software as an Apple product does; and 2) that this would be good for Apple.
As though it would be good for Apple to say, "hey guys, buy whatever phone you want but come and use our great software with it, because afterall, it's free. Then maybe, just maybe everyone will see what nice guys we are and buy a Mac on that basis, even though they have already demonstrated themselves to be cheapskates with delusions of entitlement."
Apple doesn't make money on iTunes, it makes money on phones and computers. Why are people buying those phones and computers? Because they offer an experience that is superior to the competition, and a real value for money because (besides quality and longer life of the product) the software bundled with them is easier to use and more productive.
If a person chooses a Pre for whatever reason (no local ATT service or something I would imagine), then they need to accept it doesn't have the advantages that an Apple phone using Apple software will have. Get over it. If a person chooses a Pre to spite Apple, then they are just cutting their own nose off and they have bigger issues than just being in the odd position of rejecting an Apple product but eagerly clamoring to get preferential treatment from Apple's free software instead.
Just to be clear, I own 3 macs and an Iphone which are great things! Still I thing palm should use all the power, force and ingenuity they can muster to crack the monopolistic anti-competetive apple tactics!
Frankly Apple can take the competition whithout being a bully! BTW there is no secure solution to lock out anything (like ITunes media library) from a private computer when you have root access. If you do not want to spoof as ipod there are many other ways to rip the ITunes library. I think Apple is surely loosing the fight to google and other "open standard champions" if the continue this fight. In the end they will be forced by law and then they will look very stupid!
Why wouldn't Apple sue Palm over this? Simple. Because they'd lose. Lose big.
I don't know- everybody on here has such a kanipshin fit whenever Apple gets sued yet I don't hear any rallying call for Apple to sue Palm on this.
Hmmmmmmmm.......
palm is clearly in violation of their usb license, but i don't think there is much the usb board can do about it.
i'm sure if Palm keeps this up, the forum would think of something
Man, you sound sad thinking that owning apple branded hardware is some sort of credential. ....
So all my Apple stuff means nothing.
As I read, you don't have an iPhone. Which leads me to think that you are now so much regretting you bought a pre instead of an iPhone.
Because I don't have an iPhone too?
Yeah, that makes me a Palm fanboy. That makes sense.
Next time think different.
If it means thinking like you...forget it. BTW, being an Apple lemming is not thinking different.
Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.
The issue is Palm's Pre using Apple's USB vendor number to trick iTunes, which is a blatant violation of the USB-F regulations. Basically, it's a hacker move - not something a legitimate company should be doing - and it's illegal. Apple allows third party devices to sync with iTunes (ex. the BlackBerry Desktop Sync Application), but for whatever reason Palm chose not to go that route. Palm is in deep $#!T here.
And, if I misunderstood your post, I apologize.
i'm sure if Palm keeps this up, the forum would think of something
The forum?
Why doesn't Apple flex its legal muscle?
Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.
My friend the hypocrisy it yours. Blackberry and others use XML and on system software to sync their devices with iTunes. Palm did it better by loading the software on the Pre and getting iTunes to sync w/o a middleman on the desktop.
Apple decides to repeatedly block Palm but ignores Samsung, Blackberry, etc...
Uh, is it because Palm does it better and has a real iPhone challenger? Or is it because Steve is petty and still pissed at John?
It's probably one of those.
The Palm's syncing with iTunes doesn't hurt Apple anymore than Blackberry sync does. But Apple differentiates and treats them differently. I think that says something about Apple.
And, if I misunderstood your post, I apologize.
I believe you did, but no apology necessary.
I dont see why you guys are being such a** holes, especially apple! dont get me wrong i love apple currently have a imac g4 24 inch (intel based),I 16gig iphone 3G, mac mini and a hackintosh.
How do you like your Intel based G4?
It does to me. I never seen a company with so much disregard well as respect for using another company credentials to use with their product. Palm needs to go bankrupt and close it doors forever! They have no more creativity nor originality.
They're just trying to give their Apple owning users seamless support for the media application that Apple owners use.
Interoperability is the best legal argument they will have when this goes to court. Reverse engineering for the purposes of interoperability is quite legal (in progressive countries anyway) if undertaken in a specific manner.
I would expect that the law would override an ad-hoc "forum".
Regardless, Palm should have developed a media sync using the iTunes XML file and iSync or similar (like the Blackberry Sync application) by now. They have to show some attempt at doing things the friendly way instead of being aggressive, because they're aggressive like a tiny wee beastie against a raptor. They could then fight the interoperability argument from a higher moral position.