Apple abandons U.S. Chamber of Commerce over climate policy

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 149
    GREAT job, Apple! As both a long-term shareholder and an ardent consumer, I am really proud of you guys on this front.
  • Reply 62 of 149
    kpluckkpluck Posts: 500member
    Apple knows that that a lot of their customers have bought into the the man-made global warming BS and is catering to that demographic. Nothing more. They know when they do meaningless gestures like this it helps build brand loyalty and therefore profits.



    -kpluck
  • Reply 63 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post


    Yes, I've seen those. There are other factors to consider. Relevant to your point, I suggest these simplified tutorials here and here. Be sure to read the linked background information. I can provide much more detailed and technical information when you're ready.



    I read those articles that you suggested, did you? - or more especially did you read the comments? I recommend reading the comments to this one: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...n-england.html



    .
  • Reply 64 of 149
    linjlinj Posts: 12member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by itistoday View Post


    "Socialist climate change theories"...?



    Sir (or ma'am), when was the last time someone called you a misinformed fool? Has it been more than 5 minutes? If not, then please accept my apologies for repeating the sentiment, but I have not seen such incredibly ignorant dribble since, well, since the last time I checked the internet, but that's not the point.



    The point is that you should take your idiotic right-wing bullshit and stick it far, far up your ass because that is the best place for it.



    Anyone want to know what a liberal is? Check out the above. No argument except to call everyone else stupid. Funny how they never do it to anyone's actual face, though I offer itistoday the opportunity, should he/she decide to accept.
  • Reply 65 of 149
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    I won't get into politics here, but let's just say I don't believe in man-made climate change, and this makes me want to NOT buy anything Apple. I'm sure the "greenies" will love them, but I'm not a "greenie".
  • Reply 66 of 149
    robrerobre Posts: 56member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    I won't get into politics here, but let's just say I don't believe in man-made climate change, and this makes me want to NOT buy anything Apple. I'm sure the "greenies" will love them, but I'm not a "greenie".



    Wow - so sad no:
  • Reply 67 of 149
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robre View Post


    Wow - so sad no:



    Apple is violating a principle idealism in business: Never let politics get in the way of business unless your business is in politics. I'm sure they're gonna lose a few customers over this stance.
  • Reply 68 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    I won't get into politics here, but let's just say I don't believe in man-made climate change, and this makes me want to NOT buy anything Apple. I'm sure the "greenies" will love them, but I'm not a "greenie".



    This reply has nothing to do with politics, it's just common sense. Not to get too deep here but there's a balance which needs to be maintained for the earth to work. It exists throughout every aspect of the universe and within our bodies. Too much of anything without something to counter it is going to eventually put something out of whack. The earth is huge and has only been subject to the CO2 emissions of the industrial age for, lets say for practical purposes, 150 years. Even if it doesn't have an effect on you within your lifetime, you have to know that the extra CO2, and every other excess non-naturally occurring emission, is eventually going to take its toll. You're probably the type of person which also says... Why should I conserve gasoline? There's plenty to go around and we're not going to run out anytime soon. Ignorance is bliss.



    Selfish is not a good way to go through life. Even if all the evidence isn't in and the jury is still out, what's wrong with being prudent? Have you ever done something in your lifetime "just in case" something happens?. Is it really going to hurt someone to lessen one's impact on the earth? Am I not seeing something here but will someone get hurt in this equation? Don't slam a company for actually trying to make a difference, regardless of their motivation. The world isn't getting any bigger to accommodate mankind's desire to keep multiplying, so resources will get used up and emissions are just going to increase.



    Balance...get the picture?
  • Reply 69 of 149
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    This reply has nothing to do with politics, it's just common sense. Not to get too deep here but there's a balance which needs to be maintained for the earth to work. It exists throughout every aspect of the universe and within our bodies. Too much of anything without something to counter it is going to eventually put something out of whack. The earth is huge and has only been subject to the CO2 emissions of the industrial age for, lets say for practical purposes, 150 years. Even if it doesn't have an effect on you within your lifetime, you have to know that the extra CO2, and every other excess non-naturally occurring emission, is eventually going to take its toll. You're probably the type of person which also says... Why should I conserve gasoline? There's plenty to go around and we're not going to run out anytime soon. Ignorance is bliss.



    Selfish is not a good way to go through life. Even if all the evidence isn't in and the jury is still out, what's wrong with being prudent? Have you ever done something in your lifetime "just in case" something happens?. Is it really going to hurt someone to lessen one's impact on the earth? Am I not seeing something here but will someone get hurt in this equation? Don't slam a company for actually trying to make a difference, regardless of their motivation. The world isn't getting any bigger to accommodate mankind's desire to keep multiplying, so resources will get used up and emissions are just going to increase.



    Balance...get the picture?



    Okay, I'm going to violate what I said previously...



    Let's put something into perspective here: First, man's contribution of CO2 into the atmosphere is dwarfed by the CO2 emitted by rotting vegitation and rotting corpses. That, is dwarfed by the CO2 emitted by the oceans. There has not been one shred of single proof that absolutely points to any sort of cause and effect relationship of CO2 and the temperature of the Earth. However, there has been overwhelming evidence pointing to a cause and effect relationship of the role of the Sun, solar winds, the Earth's orbital cycles, etc. to the temperature of the Earth.



    On top of that, CO2 is a marginal green house gas. The vast majority of the green house effect lies within water vapor. Combine that with how marginal, overall, the human contribution of CO2, and you have just about nothing. We are in no way shape or form causing ridiculous changes in the Earth's temperatures. As a matter of fact, its been reported that polar ice is actually thickening, not thinning. We're predicted to be at the very beginning of a long cooling period, based on solar cycles and the cycles of the earth's wobble on its axis and such. These are far more of an indicator of what long term trend the Earth is heading in than some questionable hypothesis that a marginal green house gas is somehow catastrophically changing our Earth. The Earth's temps have changed in huge swings over the course of its history, and this is nothing new. So why all the panic?



    The Earth has seen much warmer and much cooler periods, yet life thrived. The polar bears were around in much warmer times and have survived, as have much of the animal kingdom we know today. On the contrary, not all of them survive drastic cooling periods quite as well. There is huge evidence that life actually flourished in warmer periods.



    To make it point blank, in the scheme of Mother Nature, we human beings are very insignificant. Our contribution of anything to the atmosphere is in no way changing anything at all. You can't trust your highly trained local Meteorologist to forecast the weather further out than one or two days, so why would you trust a bunch of politicians backed by a bunch of scientists looking to receive funding in an otherwise looked over area of science to predict our weather for the next 100 years?



    Remember the Ozone Layer scare? Guess what? It turns out to be something that's a natural phenomenon... Now, we got stuck with R-45 instead of the much better R-12 refrigerant because people just insisted that we were killing the Earth, and supposedly had science to prove it.



    To just blindly think that we need to do something about it is naive. Leave Mother Nature alone. Every attempt green organizations have in rectifying something in nature have been short sighted and had adverse effects. Just leave it alone. Nature has a built-in self-repair mechanism, and it works much better than anything we've ever tried.



    Does this mean I think it's okay to spew pollution into the atmosphere? Absolutely not. Pollution adversely affects our health. This is something we need to keep in check. Do I think pollution has a long term negative affect on the Earth's well being? No. Again, nature has a self-repair mechanism, and it'll heal itself.



    Ever since this "Global Warming" stuff started making a splash in the late 1980's and early 1990's, I've looked at the claims with open eyes and an open mind. At one time, I was on the whole bandwagon of being greener, and was almost a member of Greenpeace. But, when I looked at all the evidence spewed by both sides, and used a little common sense to decipher what seems to better explain things and what makes more sense, the climate change theorists began to look either pretty stupid or having a political agenda. This whole ordeal has made me rethink the entire green movement and has opened my eyes that most of it is not well thought out and a cover for a larger political agenda. Even Greenpeace founder Patrick Moore has publicly stated that the green movement has been hijacked by extremist who's agenda has more to do with class warfare.
  • Reply 70 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Al Gore-hypocrite! Do something about the Chinese human rights abuse that makes your products firstly before your environmental BS. And China is the biggest environmental hazard on this planet anyway.



    True about human rights but then again there are plenty of the USA's friends that are off the scale abusers. They have oil though most of them.



    Well Chjna's carbon foot print is not a million miles different to the USA, however their population is. Thus the USA carbon footprint per capita is excessively high. Also, China is going through and industrial revolution like, you know, the west did 200 years ago. Seems a bit unreasonable to point the finger when the USA is far higher per capita and 200 years more advanced.



    Sort your own country out first mate.
  • Reply 71 of 149
    hear hear.



    Climate theories should be viewed separate from politics. You have to be a tad blinkered to think that human activity has had no affect on global temperatures. I find it offensive that the opposition are presented as having equal evidence, it's like creationism all over again (don't get me started). Why is it those opposed to the generally accepted scientific belief are predominantly right wing and drive cars a lot then?
  • Reply 72 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Linj View Post


    Anyone want to know what a liberal is? Check out the above. No argument except to call everyone else stupid. Funny how they never do it to anyone's actual face, though I offer itistoday the opportunity, should he/she decide to accept.



    You wanna fight, punk? Anyone want to know what a conservative right-winger is? It's a stereotype, that's what it is, and the typical thing this stereotype does is spout the nonsense they've heard from Fox News at people, and then when someone with half a clue gets wind of it and calls them a fool (what else are they to call them?), they get all red-faced and whip out their shotgun. That's how they debate, that's how they prove their point. With a fist or a gun.



    No, I won't say it to your face because if you happen to fit that stereotype my health insurance might not cover the damage that could result.



    I'm terribly sorry sir (or madam) if I've offended you, but you offended me when you decided to forsake reality and spew vulgarities, hatred, and when you tell Apple to "grow up" because they're trying to protect the environment (you know, that place you unfortunately inhabit). When you do that I will call you a misinformed fool. Deal with it.



    Quote:

    No argument except to call everyone else stupid.



    I readily admit that I did not make an attempt to argue with you, because I've argued with people who sound like you before. It's like arguing with the evangelical christians that preach at my school's campus, trying to convince passersby that God hates "gays, muslims, jews" and that we should all start working on worshipping Jesus and accepting him as our "personal lord and savior". You cannot argue with people like this, believe me, I've tried and have given up. They don't understand what logic or evidence means.



    So no, sorry, I'm not going to indulge you and waste my time explaining to you why your statement "Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated" is highly idiotic. You wouldn't listen anyway, or perhaps you'd decide that it was no longer "socialist" climate change theories but "fascist" climate change theories that are "highly controversial and much debated". Or are they theories supported by communists? Or Nazis? You never know these days with the right-wing nutjobs...



    On the other hand, if I've misunderstood your statement, or you meant to say something else, please by all means, do elaborate. Perhaps you could start by explaining how these theories are "socialist" in nature, and then move on to explain how they are controversial. Keep in mind that I know they are controversial among people who don't specialize in the subject area. The issue of Santa Claus will always be controversial amongst 4 year olds. In other words, please demonstrate how they're controversial among those who do specialize in it.
  • Reply 73 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    ... nature has a self-repair mechanism, and it'll heal itself.




    Ah, so much nonsense that begs a response, but it's late and restraint is long overdue.



    I'll conclude with this: no climatologists I'm aware of dispute your quoted statement above. While science can demonstrate the mechanism in nature, no science has demonstrated the equivalence for the human species. And ultimately, isn't life as we know and wish to preserve, the point?



    Again, I applaud Apple's direction without presuming nefarious agendas.
  • Reply 74 of 149
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    So there is no Global Warming eh?



    Actually there is no evidence what so ever that manmade global warming is happening.

    Quote:

    lol It's just a cycle ... eh? Rush told you that i assume? ROFL



    So you listen to Rush a lot. Fill us in on what he has been saying recently. In any event look at the so called science and the people involved in promoting global warming as a man made issue. The science, as they call it, is crap.





    Dave
  • Reply 75 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Actually there is no evidence what so ever that manmade global warming is happening.



    ...



    Dave, paraphrasing your title "ignorance does not equal truth" is my rebuttal.
  • Reply 76 of 149
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Get over yourself Apple.
  • Reply 77 of 149
    oh please. Channel 4 has been slammed for that rape of science, particularly the manipulation of the graph of dropping temperatures (over a short period and explained by industrial pollutants) cropped for effect. I would be fired and my career over if I tried such a stunt in my albeit less mainstream area of science. I am not going to repeat the controversy as it has been nicely pulled apart here:



    http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0...aganda_the.php



    A scientific disgrace and C4 have been rightly criticized for piss poor journalism.







    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...ilisation.html



    In the period cited, less than a millenium ago, the earth was much warmer than it is now. What was that about manmade global warming again?



    Ahh, that would be: The Great Global Warming Swindle (We're sorry, but this video may not be available)



    but there are clips on YouTube



    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Gre...arming+Swindle



    See also:



    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...10462407994295



    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34802461518010
  • Reply 78 of 149
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newbee View Post


    I suspect, by the tone of your post, that if Apple had taken a right wing stance instead of "a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public" you might not be so quick to dump on them.



    I can't speak for the original poster but you don't help your cause by continuing the political part of the discussion. In any event this is an issue used by the left to scare people and that makes all the difference.

    Quote:



    IMHO climate change is a proven reality and even if we are not 100% sure of the cause,



    Instead of having an opinion have a position based on facts.

    Quote:

    it is of such a critical nature that it is important for all of us to do whatever is under our control to do.



    Even if global warming was real, no matter the cause, it is no where near a critical problem. Not even remotely as critical to mankind as disease, real polution, education or defective cultures.

    Quote:

    I applaud Apple in taking the action they have.



    You applaud them for an incredibly stupid move? This is a very polarizing move that just isolates Apple to the fringes of society. If Apple truly believes that there position is correct then removing themselves from mainstream organizations isn't going to endear them to the general public.

    Quote:

    I'd like to think we would all put such an important issue above petty politics. Alas, I fear I'd be wrong to assume that.



    The left adopted this mantra to scare people so it has always been political. Much of the so called science has been fabricated with the very intent to frighten the uneducated and much of the female population. After all when was the last time somebody from the right held a town hall meeting to tell everybody how bad little Johnnys future will be if global temps go up one degree on average. They don't do that because the evidence isn't clear and it isn't responsible behaviour.



    What is really hilarious is the blank stares you get when you try to talk about variabilty in energy output from the Sun. Try to link that with this years very cool summer and you get all sorts of resistance because it does not blame mankind for the issue.



    I'm open minded with respect to this issue but there is a huge problem with opportunist, leftist, idiots and other scum trying to promote these hidious spectcles of disaster some 100 years in the future as a way to gain power.







    Dave
  • Reply 79 of 149
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    What about the sweatshops?
  • Reply 80 of 149
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post


    Dave, paraphrasing your title "ignorance does not equal truth" is my rebuttal.



    Spoken like somebody that has drunk the koolaid. If you want to live with your head in the sand that is fine but I'm going to suggest that you read a lot more and strive to educate yourself. Focus not on the stuff from the sector that believes in manmade global warming and is promotion. Rather focus on records, research and other information from science not allied with the global warming mafia. While you are at it refer back to the source documents that the global warming mafia uses to justify their position. See if that research and the follow up research, really says what is being publically claimed.



    Much of what is offered up as research is out right fabrication to support an agenda. Further if the science being done was all that great public access would be mandatory. Yet we live in a world where something as simple as temperature data is keep secure from evaluation from outsiders. The act of scientific research requires that you open up your data an you conclusions to peer review, yet we have people in the business of global warming hiding from public discourse the very info these claims are based on.





    Dave
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