HTML5 assault on Adobe Flash heats up with ClickToFlash



  • Reply 61 of 100
    Originally Posted by pjb00 View Post

    Okay, so let's see. Adobe announces a mobile-optimized full-fledged flash player 10 for every single smartphone but the iPhone, and then announces the ability to convert flash content to the iPhone. First AppleInsider marginalizes the announcements, and then the next day comes out with this "groundbreaking" news that a FlashBlocker Plugin that has been available on Firefox (46% browser share) for several years (all the the while Flash Player adoption has only accelerated with each consecutive version) is now available for Safari (3% browser share), and somehow this spells the death of the Flash Player... huh?? Feeling a bit paranoid are we??

    Seriously, all I ever hear from Apple Insider and Apple Fanboys is the holy trinity of Flash-bashing... resource hog, proprietary, battery drain. If it's that bad, just uninstall the stinkin' plugin... simple as that. done and done. Now lets get on to some real news. Geeeesh.

    Right there with you.
  • Reply 62 of 100
    Originally Posted by pjb00 View Post

    Seriously, all I ever hear from Apple Insider and Apple Fanboys is the holy trinity of Flash-bashing... resource hog, proprietary, battery drain. If it's that bad, just uninstall the stinkin' plugin... simple as that. done and done. Now lets get on to some real news. Geeeesh.

    Hey! I am an apple fan-boy...(I think) and I could hardly be called a flash basher...although I spent the day dealing with cross-server sanbox security issues caused by xml/flash so I'm not exactly LOVING flash today....although in fairness I understand the security issues around this and why it is that way.
  • Reply 63 of 100
    ibillibill Posts: 392member
    Count me among those who hate flash. Thank you ClickToFlash!
  • Reply 64 of 100
    What the Frick kind of a lame ass header is that for an article?

    Let us all know when the ground troops are going in to Fight those damn Adobe enemies.

    This article is a Flame at Adobe at best and a very BAD one.

    Flash is here for the next few years at the VERY least.

    HTML 5 is going to be cluster for at Least the next few Years.

    Adobe is introducing FLASH on every smart phone platform except the iPhone. It has a watered downd version of a pos recompiled garbage that even Adobe today has said can never let the end user experience the full potential of Flash.

    Now that is what I call an assault on Apple. Pitiful Spin on a GREAT ADOBE ACHIEVEMENT.

    Hulu Rules with Flash and it's Free.
  • Reply 65 of 100
    Originally Posted by alkrantz View Post

    Meh, think what you want I guess, clearly I am not going to convince you of anything and I don't actually care anyway. I just enjoy conversations about web trends because it's what I do for a living but your kind of rude so I can't be bothered.

    Which of my statements was rude? Perhaps I got a little brisk in the part about advertisements, especially since those defending Flash in this thread have collectively operated under the assumption that those of us who dislike Flash adopted that way of thinking due solely to advertisements, but nothing that approached rudeness.

    If the conversation is to be about web trends, then it should be about HTML5, CSS3, OGG/Theora, H264, AJAX, JS performance, and adapting design for MIDs. Flash is not a web trend: it is an entrenched protocol.


    You may not want not believe it, and you may find my opinions "silly", but there are lots of people who do like flash content, flash sites and flash as a tool and they aren't all developers. There really are people who do see a value for it and a use for it. I know because I see it all the time.

    I never claimed otherwise. As before, you seem to be missing my point: Flash as a tool for presenting content is both misused and overused. This would still be somewhat bearable if not for the platform's resource intensive nature. In general, sites that use Flash do so without a specific need for its unique features, which means those of us who load up those Flash pages take a battery life and performance hit for no good reason.

    No one is arguing that Flash shouldn't exist. We're arguing that Flash should only be used when there is a specific need for its unique features, and that the platform itself needs to be rewritten and streamlined to have as minimal a system footprint as possible. If we're to talk about trends, then rewrites and performance improvements are a major trend right now: witness Snow Leopard and Windows 7.


    As a result it's not going away until its replaced by something else that serves the role flash serves now.

    This is what HTML5, CSS3, H264, OGG/Theora, and others are trying to do.


    There will always be annoying adds even when users pay for content, because often times subscription models don't pay all the bills. Whether you agree with that or not won't change the actual business model of developing web content.

    Again, you're arguing against something that was never said. Of course there will be advertisements even in a Flash-less web. That's not why some of us want to see its use curbed.
  • Reply 66 of 100
    Originally Posted by Waalter View Post

    Because that's our job. Asking why a designer is allowed to design something is like asking why an architect is allowed to architect something.

    Some of you people are acting as though Flash is the root of all the bad design on the web. As if there's no HTML site without a splash page or superfluous graphics. As if no HTML content has ever been divided into 5 pages when it should have been all on one page, or been megabytes in size when it should have been split into multiple pages. Or what about custom CSS-based scrollbars? How about sites where enormous 3MB images have been embedded all over the place?

    I'm an interaction designer. I reluctantly took the time to learn ActionScript 3, and now develop in both it, Flex, and HTML / CSS / JS. I will tell you firsthand: Flash is a resource hog, it's overused, and it's not perfect by any means. Like many other people here, I'm on a MacBook Pro, and if there's more than one Flash file embedded on a page - even simple animations - my fans start spinning. For these reasons, tools like ClickToFlash are terrific.

    But if there's something I've learned, it's that nothing should be considered a one-size-fits-all solution. That goes for Flash AND for HTML (and Silverlight if it even registers on your radar). I love HTML because it's lean, it's quick, and as of late it can do a lot of cool stuff that people would have expected from a Flash-based project. But using it to create a game (e.g. FarmVille, Quake Live) would be no small task, if not impossible. And for the people talking about H.264 support, Flash has supported that in some capacity since Flash Player 9. Perhaps most important of all, even though there are a ton of terrific things HTML5 can do, it's not backwards compatible - whereas Flash plugins work even on crummy browsers like IE6.

    Use of Architect is not good example since by definition these people design and help construct a building. This means that take into account all variables to ensure that everything works for the final outcome, fully functional building/structure that is designed well in all areas.
  • Reply 67 of 100
    Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

    Use of Architect is not good example since by definition these people design and help construct a building. This means that take into account all variables to ensure that everything works for the final outcome, fully functional building/structure that is designed well in all areas.

    It's not a "good example" because building a fully functional APP or building doesn't fit your description of why Flash is a great development app for multiple purposes?

    Rather a convenient choice of standards...

    Flash just sucks on Apple. Have you ever thought it's Apple's OS and not Adobe?
  • Reply 68 of 100
    ibillibill Posts: 392member
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

    Flash just sucks on Apple. Have you ever thought it's Apple's OS and not Adobe?

    Of course, Apple should just rewrite their OS so that Adobe's proprietary Flash runs correctly.

    I prefer to think differently. Perhaps if Adobe wanted a place on Apple's iPhone platform, they wouldn't have treated Apple and their customers like third class citizens for the last 10 years.
  • Reply 69 of 100
    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

    I'm all for this ClickToFlash. Can't wait to see the day when Flash disappears for good. Such a damn processor hog. Intel should be pro-Adobe. Adobe will help Intel sell higher-end processors. Flash animation might be nice to look at, but I'll pass if it's gonna slow everything down. Fine for designers, but a nightmare for people with underpowered computers. As long as I can block it, then all well and good. Let the Flash people code to their heart's content as long as I don't have to see it. I'm sorry if it's the Mac OS that's screwing up the Flash plug-in coding routines or something. Then maybe Apple should do something about it if Flash works so well on Windows. Meanwhile I'll just block it for now. I don't need full screen videos so it should be fine for me.

    Quit whining.....uninstall the Flash plug-in and be "happy web guy".......when you don't like a program on television, do you yell at the TV? or just change the channel?
  • Reply 70 of 100
    Originally Posted by iBill View Post

    Count me among those who hate flash. Thank you ClickToFlash!

    Quit whining.....uninstall the Flash plug-in and be "happy web guy".
  • Reply 71 of 100
    sheffsheff Posts: 1,407member
    Flashless youtube? This will be strange but awesome but still kinda wierd at the same time.

    Somehow I still don't see flash dieing out before a hacked flash app/browser arrives to the app store jailbroken app store. We'll see who wins out at the end.
  • Reply 72 of 100
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

    If you don't throw your back out from cringing at this horrible pro-Flash video, you haven't been paying attention:

    What's encouraging (to me) is the growing sentiment against Flash as represented in the comments. YouTube is more a voice (for better or worse) for the technology amateur than tech-specific sites like this. When you lose the general computer-using populace (and have already lost most of the expert audience) it's time to engage in some deep introspection. Which is something that Adobe seems to be in complete denial about.

    Adobe is NOT in denial because they make millions of dollars from Flash....hey we could say Microsoft is in denial about Vista....but they make millions of dollars from a horrible OS.....they are laughing at you...they have not lost most of the general computer-using populace nor most of the expert audience....this is your delusion...Adobe's bank account says quite the that Flash developers have access to get paid by the App store with Flash CS5........more new users will swarm to the development tools and the App store will have 1000 more bad tip-calculators, but remember, the App store already has many terrible Apps that were created with great tools......your opinion of 100 comments that bash Flash has zero to do with the market-place my friend.

    Adobe has software engineers that are just as bright as Apple's engineers.....they will fine tune the plug-in and it will be robust, they have the resources to make this can blame Flash for bad ads....and you are correct....but I can promise you one thing with 100% certainty....web ads will not go away ever and they will never quit being intrusive or annoying no matter the technology available ....they will find you.

    Now, quitely uninstall the Flash plug-in.....and be "happy web guy"
  • Reply 73 of 100
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member
    Why is this headline bright red? Where's Wolf Blitzer?

    Anyway...Flash is the only reason rich interactive graphics have advanced for the web. For that I give thanks. But that was then. This is now and Flash is a pig. Unfortunately like most others reporting, when I use YT or other Flash sites my MacBook fans go crazy and bye bye CPU.

    I also agree that replacing Flash will not make advertisers or bad sites go away. However if apps like ClickToFlash save massive CPU power essentially protecting my investment, then that single reason alone is good enough for me to abandon Flash. I've created a lot of great web sites using Flash and I will soon be redesigning them without Flash and making them mobile compliant at the same time. Unfortunately I will lose some of the pretty UI. I'm hoping the new load times and compatibility will make up for the loss in design flare.

    I started using ClickToFlash last night from a recommendation from another thread and I was pleasantly surprised that my YT experience was 100% silent and my CPU performed great. As someone else pointed out the lack of volume controls is very odd though.
  • Reply 74 of 100
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

    I love ClickToFlash, but this highlights one big issue I have with their approach.

    The native controls have no volume control and since every douchebag that puts a video on the internet sets the volume at plus 15 or so, this is not a good thing.

    I'd really like to see someone (anyone!), focus on a solution for volume levels on web pages and internet videos. I've been on the Web since the first day, and I had problems adjusting the audio in five different locations then, and still do today.

    Maybe I'm just naive or something but my iMac keyboard has an up and a down volume button on it so I don't know why you need more than that .....
  • Reply 75 of 100
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

    I found out about ClickToFlash by reading post threads here a month or so ago (Thank you). I downloaded it and hopefully will never have to live without it again. It was free but I'd pay $100 to keep it if I had too.


    You don't have to, but if it will make you feel better you can send me the $100 and I'll make sure it gets into the "appropriate" hands ... nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
  • Reply 76 of 100
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

    Some people here won't listen to that truthful statement you just said. I keep hearing: It runs perfect for me. It's like you and me are living in the Twilight Zone here.

    I think you're on to something there ... could be! in fact I think I hear the theme song now.
  • Reply 77 of 100
    As an end user I love ClickToFlash. Pages load faster, the content is easier to read and I never get weird delays or messages about a script on the page taking forever.

    When I visit a site and find all the navigation requires Flash I go away and never return. That can't be good for business.

    Whether the Flash developers like it or not, end users avoiding Flash heavy sites, installing Flash blocking plug-ins or simply browsing from their iPhones are going to change things. When half the mobile browsers and a significant number of desktop browsers stop visiting webmasters are going to sit up and take notice. Word is going to make it to CIOs that people are avoiding them because of the design of their websites and they will demand something be done to attract rather than repel visitors.

    I have little kids. They love visiting cartoon sites and playing the cute little games there, but more often than not the experience is so bad, the frame rates so low that the games are unplayable.

    When a tool is so bad that it can't even satisfy the low expectations of a 5 year old it's time for that tool to be replaced by something better.
  • Reply 78 of 100
    Flash is a bandaid for the shortcomings of open web standards. This, in turn, has shown to be a wake up call for the standards organizations that produce open web standards. In turn, the shortcomings of the open web standards are slowly be addressed, resulting in less and less need for Flash.

    It's not 1999, and Flash's days appear numbered to me.

    The future is not plugins. Just as the future is not broken/half baked html rendering a la IE6. The future is Open, free, and extensible standards-based formats that do not require third party plugins which may or may not be installed.

    The fact that Flash is used in such atrocious ways (ads, intro pages) is only hastening its demise. When something is irritating far more often than it is useful, well, that's when NoFlash/ClickToFlash get written. That's when TIVO gets invented. That's when iPods replace commercial radio.
  • Reply 79 of 100
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Originally Posted by Jon T View Post

    As a consumer of graphic design, I loathe Flash. It is invariably over-engineered, fussy and altogether slow and useless in the real world.

    ClickToFlash has been on my MBP for some months and I encourage every other Mac user I know to install it. It makes life a pleasure to be protected from inanities produced by out of college web designers.

    Die Flash. Die.

    ☟☟☟☟☟ yes
  • Reply 80 of 100
    I find this whole "No need for Flash on the iPhone because some open web framework does better" argument that is constantly repeated by AppleInsider and other excessively pro-Apple sites totally misses the point of the counter-argument.

    It's about choice. There may be no need for Flash with upcoming standards, but why should that not be something decided by market forces? The web is meant to enable people. This means allowing content producers to adopt whichever system (open or closed) they choose and allowing viewers to access this content regardless of platform. Adobe facilitates this with Flash as best they can.

    It's up to content producers and consumers to decide, not browser makers. The iPhone still needs Flash 2 years on. No amount of rhetoric from Apple or its irrational fanbase (Dilger) is going to change that anytime soon. When content producers feel there is another product better suited to creating the web experience they are hoping for, they will use it. In the mean time, Flash Pro is where it's at.
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