At the risk of beating the dead horse yet again...

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  • Reply 161 of 224
    Quote:

    That says it all why there's no xMac.



    No victory, Master Vinea...



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 162 of 224
  • Reply 163 of 224
  • Reply 164 of 224
    Particularly like the latter. But the former would more than do.



    Der-rool, der-rool.



    Dat's one sexy dead horse.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 165 of 224
    Quote:

    Towers don't sell any more



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Yes they do.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Actually. No they don't.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple Insider


    Apple shipped 787,000 Mac desktops during the fourth quarter of 2009, amounting to $1.086 billion in revenue. That was a 20 percent decline in revenue for the desktop business compared to a year prior, with 16 percent fewer machines sold.



    But the portable business boomed, with 35 percent growth in sales and 27 percent growth in revenue. That equated to sales of 2.266 million Mac laptops generated $2.866 billion in revenue.



  • Reply 166 of 224
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    That says it all why there's no xMac. You already decided.



    And a lot of others have already decided as well...against buying Apple. Tell me Vinea, does it bruise your ego that Apple is only going after very ordinary users. And guys if the "traditional PowerMac" does reappear as part of the lower margins, how much you want to bet Vinea changes all those positions to suit Apple's then reality as they always do. Your positions are not based on any kind of logic, they're based on the idea that Apple is not capable of making mistakes.
  • Reply 167 of 224
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    And a lot of others have already decided as well...against buying Apple. Tell me Vinea, does it bruise your ego that Apple is only going after very ordinary users.



    Nope.



    Quote:

    And guys if the "traditional PowerMac" does reappear as part of the lower margins, how much you want to bet Vinea changes all those positions to suit Apple's then reality as they always do.



    Nope. I've said several times in these threads that if Apple made an xMac I'd buy one.



    But hey, don't let reality phase you. It hasn't yet on this topic, why break a trend?



    Quote:

    Your positions are not based on any kind of logic, they're based on the idea that Apple is not capable of making mistakes.



    And nope again. Three for three.



    My position is simple, Apple is executing very well with the lineup it has and making enormous profits. 3M machines in a huge global recession says they aren't making many mistakes or leaving a lot of money on the table. 42% YOY growth. And this with a bunch of folks waiting for the new iMacs and MBPs based on Nehalem. I've been pushing off my MBP update for months.



    Folks that claim that Apple must have an xMac to do well is full of it.



    Folks that claim that Apple would do better with an xMac in the lineup has the burden of proof before tinkering with a hugely successful lineup.
  • Reply 168 of 224
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phormic View Post


    Actually. No they don't.



    Apple doesn't sell towers so the 20% decline doesn't mean much with respect to that.



    On the other hand, desktops as a whole are expected to fall 18% in 2009 so the 20% number tracks well with projections.



    There is some hope that Win7 will spur some tower sales in FY10. Likewise, there's probably some pent up demand waiting for updated iMacs with Clarksfield and Arrandale.
  • Reply 169 of 224
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,754moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Folks that claim that Apple must have an xMac to do well is full of it.



    I haven't heard anyone else claim that. All people have said is that there is a significant market for it, not that Apple's success depends on it.



    Apple's desktop sales are now down to 26% of their total. People who don't like value for money comprise a small market indeed and Apple have nice laptops. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy though when companies say that people are increasingly buying laptops while offering poor value desktops.



    I don't mind to be honest, if Apple can put Clarksfield into the MBP just like they put the 3GHz CPUs in it, even the iMac can go.
  • Reply 170 of 224
    aflaaakaflaaak Posts: 208member
    When I first posted the question, I was just hoping for a little insight on whether Apple was on the verge of coming out with something in the next few months before I went ahead and bought another Windows computer.



    Wow, this topic still has some life! The first few posts made me roll my eyes and wish I'd never bothered, since some of them were aimed at making me feel stupid for even considering that my needs were anything but a niche, and Apple would never stoop to my outdated level. But, I am pleasantly surprised to see that, at least on AI, I'm not alone. Which makes me very frustrated with Apple, and think SJ is more of a bigger, arrogant dork for not making a product that would have a market, especially given their recent media announcements about newer "value" priced computers. A mid-tower could be a nice part of that product lineup and bring more switchers like me in, who may tell our friends that Apple might be a nice choice for their next computer. But, I guess they're just not going to do it because the market for desktops is dying, and everybody's just buying laptops these days, and the iMac is soooooo successful they don't need to, bla, bla, bla. Makes me think a little of how Chrysler recently concentrated on mostly pickups, muscle cars, and SUVs because that's what people wanted and the profit margin was great. I guess I'll take my business elsewhere.
  • Reply 171 of 224
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    OMG! I wondered whether folks would still be discussing this topic, and came back to look. Still so many of the same names too. It feels like a reunion. I came back in part because I may soon want an Intel Mac to run the latest version of Logic Studio and use 24 bit digitizers for the audio inputs. I'll likely end up with a used MacPro, which will do nothing for Apple sales. Until then, the last version of Logic Studio is running well on a dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac.



    There may not be enough users like me for Apple to make an xMac. But I do wonder about all the retail businesses, professional offices and the like. What I see in these places are small desktop computers -- no all-in-ones, no laptops and no workstations. I didn't realize that such usage was nothing more than a tiny market segment. (Tongue planted in cheek.)



    Jerry
  • Reply 172 of 224
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I haven't heard anyone else claim that.



    I was going to do a search for the old threads that proclaimed doom and gloom because of no mid-tower but I'm not going to bother.



    Quote:

    All people have said is that there is a significant market for it, not that Apple's success depends on it.



    Given that Apple has been wildly successful it would be silly. On the other hand folks have been just that silly in the past. Now they have to postulate that Apple would be "even more successful" if only they were in charge and not dumb ol' Steve with an AIO fetish.



    Quote:

    Apple's desktop sales are now down to 26% of their total. People who don't like value for money comprise a small market indeed and Apple have nice laptops. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy though when companies say that people are increasingly buying laptops while offering poor value desktops.



    Except that desktops are down across the board.



    "In the same period, laptop shipments?already higher than desktop shipments on the whole?grew 10% over last year. Desktops were entirely to blame, dropping by an astounding 23%. That's not decline?it's free fall.



    Stephen Baker, an analyst for industry watchers NPD, shared with me a wider picture of how retail PC sales break down. The way he put it made measuring the rise and fall of sales percentages seem dumb?there really aren?t any sales to lose: ?In US retail, 80% of sales are notebooks now,? he said. ?Start throwing in stuff like iMacs and all-in-ones??which share more hardware DNA with laptops and Netbooks than traditional desktops??and it gets even higher.?"



    http://gizmodo.com/5301401/so-long-desktop-pc-you-suck



    "The research firm blames falling IT spending and plunging desktop computer sales for the drop, says the story. Desktop shipments are likely to decline by 18.1 percent, down to 124.4 million units from 151.9 million units in 2008, says iSuppli."



    http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/N...earch-studies/



    But hey, don't let reality bother you. It's just Apple with declining desktop sales all due to the "poor" value of the iMac.



    Which to be honest was poor waiting for the mobile i5/i7 releases and the mini an exceptional buy within the lineup until yesterday.



    Which is why a lot of folks held off buying new iMacs the last couple months waiting for this refresh. 2010 Q1 should see a nice uptick in iMac sales.



    Quote:

    I don't mind to be honest, if Apple can put Clarksfield into the MBP just like they put the 3GHz CPUs in it, even the iMac can go.



    I don't mind being honest either. Dream on.
  • Reply 173 of 224
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post


    Which makes me very frustrated with Apple, and think SJ is more of a bigger, arrogant dork



    Yes, I'm sure that if only you were in charge and were selling xMacs they would be wildly successful.



    He is arrogant as hell though... then again he has cause to be. Unlike others...



    Quote:

    Makes me think a little of how Chrysler recently concentrated on mostly pickups, muscle cars, and SUVs because that's what people wanted and the profit margin was great. I guess I'll take my business elsewhere.



    Yes, because Apple is JUST LIKE Chrysler.



    Oh yeah...xMac proponents are a reasonable bunch, not given to exaggeration or doom and gloom.



    What sort of claims were you looking for Marvin? I forget.
  • Reply 174 of 224
    frykefryke Posts: 217member
    80% of computer buyers do _not_ require a top-notch machine for "highend" games, highend graphics/video/sound editing. Those 80% could seriously work just fine on the earliest white MacBook with an 1.83 GHz CoreDuo or the same processor in a Mac mini (or iMac). If you look at the past few years of computers, they're basically _all_ "good enough" for the vast majority of users. THAT is why people are moving to smaller form factors. Even a MacBook Air's processor is certainly good enough for web browsing, E-Mail and office work. For smaller stuff, it even works great with Adobe CS 3 and 4.
  • Reply 175 of 224
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Oh yeah...xMac proponents are a reasonable bunch, not given to exaggeration or doom and gloom.



    Vinea,

    We all know your views on why Apple shouldn't field an xMac. Therefore, it's time you retired your diatribes against the xMac.

    Should, by some fluke, Apple market some form of xMac in the future, you'll have egg on your face. let the dreamers dream. You're pissing in the wind attacking their hopes. You're wasting your time.

    Further, by naysaying, you're just causing them to think up more reasons to want the xMac.

    Enough!
  • Reply 176 of 224
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post


    When I first posted the question, I was just hoping for a little insight on whether Apple was on the verge of coming out with something in the next few months before I went ahead and bought another Windows computer.



    Wow, this topic still has some life! The first few posts made me roll my eyes and wish I'd never bothered, since some of them were aimed at making me feel stupid for even considering that my needs were anything but a niche, and Apple would never stoop to my outdated level. But, I am pleasantly surprised to see that, at least on AI, I'm not alone. Which makes me very frustrated with Apple, and think SJ is more of a bigger, arrogant dork for not making a product that would have a market, especially given their recent media announcements about newer "value" priced computers. A mid-tower could be a nice part of that product lineup and bring more switchers like me in, who may tell our friends that Apple might be a nice choice for their next computer. But, I guess they're just not going to do it because the market for desktops is dying, and everybody's just buying laptops these days, and the iMac is soooooo successful they don't need to, bla, bla, bla. Makes me think a little of how Chrysler recently concentrated on mostly pickups, muscle cars, and SUVs because that's what people wanted and the profit margin was great. I guess I'll take my business elsewhere.



    It would spur increased unit sales for sure, but increased profits? Questionable as iMac sales would be replaced by the lower margin tower sales. The profit margins on traditional desktops are small and shrinking and there is little Apple could do with a tower to justify a higher cost. Apple is a business first and foremost. If they felt that a mid range tower was in their best interests, there would be one. Acer for example is selling a ton of netbooks, but is barely breaking even on each sale. There segments of the PC market that Apple simply isn't interested in. Sadly, building a hackintosh is probably your best option if you want OSX.
  • Reply 177 of 224
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    Vinea,

    We all know your views on why Apple shouldn't field an xMac. Therefore, it's time you retired your diatribes against the xMac.



    Equally, "we all know" the views of those pro xMac. Or do we? There are many different views on what the xMac would be.



    Anyway, at one time this argument was amusing; my opinion is also that it's had its day and enough is enough. However, if others wish to continue going round and round in circles, let it be!
  • Reply 178 of 224
    Quote:

    Actually. No they don't.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple Insider

    Apple shipped 787,000 Mac desktops during the fourth quarter of 2009, amounting to $1.086 billion in revenue. That was a 20 percent decline in revenue for the desktop business compared to a year prior, with 16 percent fewer machines sold.



    But the portable business boomed, with 35 percent growth in sales and 27 percent growth in revenue. That equated to sales of 2.266 million Mac laptops generated $2.866 billion in revenue.



    You have to be kidding? You're using Apple's lousy desktop line of outdated desktops with the massive price hikes and the out of date components from their sales data? Such that it was? As proof.



    *Calls for the yellow van. And a straight jacket.



    Hmm. Are you going to use the same data when Apple's desktop sales rebound? (Care of the latest updates?)



    There is plenty of room for a Mid-tower under the Mac Pro. Lose the monitor from the iMac, put in a better gpu with i7 as standard and yer done.



    It's £1000-£1500 and easy money for Apple from people who don't want to pay £1900 for a quad core tower?



    Do half the people on these boards have car-crashes where they lose their memory?



    Do we remember the days when Apple used to lose LOADS of money selling G3, G4 and G5 towers at sane prices?



    Hmm. Must have been a dream. I guess.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 179 of 224
    Quote:

    Actually. No they don't.



    Yes. Towers sell. If you don't offer a 'mid-range' tower. It won't sell. If you sell out of date desktops. They won't sell either. 40-50% of the worlds market, installed, selling, shrinking, growing or stubborn switchers have towers and like them.



    No denying laptops are doing ok. But you'd have to be nuts to say that consumers don't want cheaper alternatives than the Mac Pro. If towers are doing badly I guess Apple should just can the Mac Pro. Afterall, what's the point of selling one or two workstations into 40-50% of the world's tower market?



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 180 of 224
    Quote:

    6 percent fewer machines sold.



    The launched the same iMac, twice! A mere side grade. Jacked up the prices. We have a Mac Pro at nearly £2000 for the entry model. And of course, using that logic, we can say that the tower market is dying...with the desktop market not far behind.



    *nods. Verrrrrrrry slowwwwwwwwleeeeee.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    PS. Guess it's nothing to do with the fact that only Apple's laptop line represented value for money?
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