Apple is showing the world that "open" is worthless when your product/service can't deliver an enjoyable, coherent, consistent user experience.
And so far, Android is off to a slow and rather unimpressive start. We're still waiting for the big G-phone revolution.
Gartner is forecasting that Android could become the #2 mobile OS by 2012, a bit over 2 years from now.
Apple has not shown that "open" is worthless. Does Windows being dominant on the desktop show that the Mac is worthless? No. They have shown that they are capable of delivering a fantastic user experience through seemless integration. This is not new to the iPhone, as it has been their MO since the beginning. This is why most of us on these boards use Apple products. This does not in anyway mean that an open alternative could not also be successful.
I truly hope that Android becomes a success. This will force Apple to compete, which will in turn drive their innovation, which will mean I get continued improvements for my next iPhone. Similarly, in Canada, while I won't likely ever switch to Bell or Telus, the fact that they are now carrying the iPhone makes me hope they are successful with it. Their success would force my carrier, Rogers, to improve their service.
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
teckdude: You gotta stop this "piling on" on annonymouse.
In the first place, as king of the "one liner annoying comment that has nothing to do with the thread," it's more than a bit ironic (and stupid, and offensive) that you keep calling out others on the very thing that you do the most.
Secondly, annoymouse's comments might sometimes be short like yours, but they have about three times the content on average, and are usually on topic.
Your's are not.
Why does AppleInsider even let you post over and over again, that's what I don't understand. You are offensive, you make everything personal, and you never have anything good or relevant to say. You have made deeply personal attacks on people from time to time but never get banned or (apparently) even warned by the moderators. I don't get it unless you are related to someone at AppleInsider or something.
The only time you add anything to the debate is when some more intelligent than yourself (and overly kind), like solipsism re-iterates what you said so that it sounds reasonable or topical, even though it's probably not what you intended to say at all.
Please stop with the one-liner insulting remarks. You aren't funny.
Moderators, please do your job and start giving this person at least the occasional warning. Many more intelligent people who contribute far more to the debates on this site have been banned (temporarily) for less than what teckstud does on a regular basis.
I can not believe people were surprised about this and that iphone will not go to VZ, all the stupid rumors people were hearing before thinking VZ was talking Apple those rumors were really between VZ Google, Motorola and LG, and you can bet those phones really will not be open, why would they be, the iphone is not really open if you think about it.
Apple is going with multiple carriers in more and more territories. Why no Verizon? Apple knows about marketing and wouldn't let a minor insult get in the way of making millions, would they? Consider Apples 'I'm a Mac / PC' campaign which has been running for years and the fact that they still 'rely' on MS Office and Exchange for their own offerings. If Apple feels that they can sell millions more iPhones through Verizon, and Verizon feels that by carrying the iPhone it will increase revenue significantly, it is unlikely that the fact that it also carries the pre, and Android, and whatever else makes any difference. Lots of carriers carry the same phones, all of which do pretty much exactly the same thing.
Not to mention that if Apple takes the iPhone on over to Verizon with Google and Android having just set up, it will truly be an Apples to Apples comparison in regard to the consumer having either device at hand to purchase along with a Verizon phone plan. Then one can see which is truly preferred. In fact, have the PRE come along if not there already and let the chips fall where they may! And may the best smart phone "win"!
I can not believe people were surprised about this and that iphone will not go to VZ, all the stupid rumors people were hearing before thinking VZ was talking Apple those rumors were really between VZ Google, Motorola and LG, and you can bet those phones really will not be open, why would they be, the iphone is not really open if you think about it.
Verizon is trying to stop people from moving to the iPhone and the Pre. Remember when they said they will get the iPhone and the Pre early this summer before their release? And now few months later they tell us they are not interested anymore. Verizon is trying to steer people away from buying these phones as much as they can but it doesn't seem to be working well for them
Let's see if Android escapes the fate of Windows. "One OS many devices" eventually runs up against the problem of runaway complexity. [...]
Google will try to address this by publishing a very tight list of phone specs, but they can only go so far with this standardization. What hand set maker wants to sell a phone that is hardly distinguishable from its competitors? So each handset maker will add on their own customized tweaks then it's even worse than Windows. Android would no longer be an OS but a class of OSes. Sorta like Linux as seen by non-geeks. (So there's Ubuntu, and SUSE, and Redhat and what have you and they're all Linux but they're also all different from each other.)
Everything that Google has done so far has been very smart. The separation between OS code (written in C) and application code (written for Dalvik) is very clear and will allow the underlying hardware/software to change without causing major compatibility headaches.
We're not going to see a similar story to desktop Linux where each flavor of the OS uses a different application framework and packaging system. Going even further, there's no technical reason why the Dalvik runtime engine couldn't be ported to Symbian or Windows Mobile, thus producing more compatible devices rather than less.
It depends on your definition of open? Define an open device.
Well I know what closed is- One that's not letting me put on and do with whatever I want with it. In other words - I own the device, it's mine to do with what I want with.
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
perhaps i can explain, from my perspective verizon is notorious for locking out phone capabilties and closing your choices off to line there own pockets. verizon's comment is hypocritical.
i just hope that this will increase competition and drive my phone bill down, i'll stay with ATT because i've not had any, ANY problems with there service or coverage. i'd sure like a $50/month everything plan or less.
teckdude: You gotta stop this "piling on" on annonymouse.
In the first place, as king of the "one liner annoying comment that has nothing to do with the thread," it's more than a bit ironic (and stupid, and offensive) that you keep calling out others on the very thing that you do the most.
Secondly, annoymouse's comments might sometimes be short like yours, but they have about three times the content on average, and are usually on topic.
Your's are not.
Why does AppleInsider even let you post over and over again, that's what I don't understand. You are offensive, you make everything personal, and you never have anything good or relevant to say. You have made deeply personal attacks on people from time to time but never get banned or (apparently) even warned by the moderators. I don't get it unless you are related to someone at AppleInsider or something.
The only time you add anything to the debate is when some more intelligent than yourself (and overly kind), like solipsism re-iterates what you said so that it sounds reasonable or topical, even though it's probably not what you intended to say at all.
Please stop with the one-liner insulting remarks. You aren't funny.
Moderators, please do your job and start giving this person at least the occasional warning. Many more intelligent people who contribute far more to the debates on this site have been banned (temporarily) for less than what teckstud does on a regular basis.
I'm super tired of it myself, how about you?
Ok - let me get this straight- in 9 paragraphs, you're calling me a name, manically whining , and asking the moderators for help in ignoring my posts? That's rich.
I truly hope that Android becomes a success. This will force Apple to compete, which will in turn drive their innovation, which will mean I get continued improvements for my next iPhone.
This is absurd. You have it all backwards. Apple does not now, and never has needed an outside catalyst for innovation. The iPhone IS the innovation that is causing the rest of the industry to dramatically change. The best everyone else can do is try to catch up to where Apple is leading. Apple has no reason to respond to what others are doing. So far, no one has even caught up to the first gen iPhone. With their world-class built-in accessibility features that no one else is even capable of thinking of, Apple is so far out in front with the 3GS, they could rest on their laurels for the next five years. The thing is, they're not resting at all. They are already cooking up the next iteration of the iPhone. If history is any guide, by the time the industry catches up to the present reality, Apple will have warped reality again.
Android is not what I would call "open," but in comparison to the iPhone, it's open.
For example, tethering apps tend to find themselves removed from the Android Market. OTOH, you can download and install them yourself--some without rooting the phone. However, if there is a concept of "rooting" the phone at all, it's not an "open" phone.
Despite all that, the iPhone is nowhere near as open as Android, thanks to the App Store being the only legitimate way to install applications--and Apple is the gatekeeper to the App Store. Sure, squelch lowers noise but it can also lower signal.
Apple may not have to worry about Android yet, but they need to keep an eye on it.
I respectfully disagree. The G1 with the latest Android (Donut) is superior to the first-generation iPhone. I've owned both.
The funny thing is everytime I get the dreaded "E" symbol on my 3Gs, I stop to ponder how those initial pioneers could deal with that snail pace. And it didn't even have the faster inerds!
Android is not what I would call "open," but in comparison to the iPhone, it's open.
For example, tethering apps tend to find themselves removed from the Android Market. OTOH, you can download and install them yourself--some without rooting the phone. However, if there is a concept of "rooting" the phone at all, it's not an "open" phone.
Despite all that, the iPhone is nowhere near as open as Android, thanks to the App Store being the only legitimate way to install applications--and Apple is the gatekeeper to the App Store. Sure, squelch lowers noise but it can also lower signal.
Apple may not have to worry about Android yet, but they need to keep an eye on it.
Is the Pre coming to Verizon this year or next? So Verizon actually has a bucketful of iPhone competitors now.
I highly doubt now that iPhone is ever going to Verizon since the news of the past 2 days.
"Is there a Map for that" and now this.
Oh well - looks like I'm stuck with AT&T 'cause I'm sure not as hell going to T-Mobile.
Actually on my "new for me" 2G iPhone, T-mobile has been pretty acceptable. I'll admit it is a step down from Verizon in terms of network coverage. I'm not going to be pulling down 1.5 mbits in the mountains or getting perfect reception on the beach, but it has been tolerable and the plans were cheap. I clocked in as a non-smartphone and got 1000 minutes and unlimited data/messaging for $65.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol
I could see this deal being the thing that drove the wedge between Schmidt and Jobs, if this is in fact Verizon's alternative to carrying the iPhone.
But I don't see any upside for Verizon in allowing the Pre, Windows Mobile, RIM and Android onto its network with their own app stores but still refusing Apple. Nothing will sell them nearly as many lucrative data plans as the iPhone.
I don't think they are refusing Apple by virture of the fact they allowed all those brands on their network. I think it is Apple that is refusing them.
I don't think they are refusing Apple by virture of the fact they allowed all those brands on their network. I think it is Apple that is refusing them.
I'll tell you one thing - there will be less switchers now from Verizon now that a Pre or an Android can be pushed in a their face at any Verizon store. Same for corporate accounts.
Verizon is pretty shrewd at this game. They're no sleeping giant like MS. Just look at their new "map" ad.
Comments
Is any Apple device truly "open"?
It depends on your definition of open? Define an open device.
Apple is showing the world that "open" is worthless when your product/service can't deliver an enjoyable, coherent, consistent user experience.
And so far, Android is off to a slow and rather unimpressive start. We're still waiting for the big G-phone revolution.
Gartner is forecasting that Android could become the #2 mobile OS by 2012, a bit over 2 years from now.
Apple has not shown that "open" is worthless. Does Windows being dominant on the desktop show that the Mac is worthless? No. They have shown that they are capable of delivering a fantastic user experience through seemless integration. This is not new to the iPhone, as it has been their MO since the beginning. This is why most of us on these boards use Apple products. This does not in anyway mean that an open alternative could not also be successful.
I truly hope that Android becomes a success. This will force Apple to compete, which will in turn drive their innovation, which will mean I get continued improvements for my next iPhone. Similarly, in Canada, while I won't likely ever switch to Bell or Telus, the fact that they are now carrying the iPhone makes me hope they are successful with it. Their success would force my carrier, Rogers, to improve their service.
It depends on your definition of open? Define an open device.
It's one of those wonderfully vague terms that can be casually tossed around when insulting your rival.
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
teckdude: You gotta stop this "piling on" on annonymouse.
In the first place, as king of the "one liner annoying comment that has nothing to do with the thread," it's more than a bit ironic (and stupid, and offensive) that you keep calling out others on the very thing that you do the most.
Secondly, annoymouse's comments might sometimes be short like yours, but they have about three times the content on average, and are usually on topic.
Your's are not.
Why does AppleInsider even let you post over and over again, that's what I don't understand. You are offensive, you make everything personal, and you never have anything good or relevant to say. You have made deeply personal attacks on people from time to time but never get banned or (apparently) even warned by the moderators. I don't get it unless you are related to someone at AppleInsider or something.
The only time you add anything to the debate is when some more intelligent than yourself (and overly kind), like solipsism re-iterates what you said so that it sounds reasonable or topical, even though it's probably not what you intended to say at all.
Please stop with the one-liner insulting remarks. You aren't funny.
Moderators, please do your job and start giving this person at least the occasional warning. Many more intelligent people who contribute far more to the debates on this site have been banned (temporarily) for less than what teckstud does on a regular basis.
I'm super tired of it myself, how about you?
Gartner is forecasting that Android could become the #2 mobile OS by 2012, a bit over 2 years from now.
Gartner is not the most reliable forecaster.
I'm super tired of it myself, how about you?
Well, it's probably best to just ignore him.
Apple is going with multiple carriers in more and more territories. Why no Verizon? Apple knows about marketing and wouldn't let a minor insult get in the way of making millions, would they? Consider Apples 'I'm a Mac / PC' campaign which has been running for years and the fact that they still 'rely' on MS Office and Exchange for their own offerings. If Apple feels that they can sell millions more iPhones through Verizon, and Verizon feels that by carrying the iPhone it will increase revenue significantly, it is unlikely that the fact that it also carries the pre, and Android, and whatever else makes any difference. Lots of carriers carry the same phones, all of which do pretty much exactly the same thing.
Not to mention that if Apple takes the iPhone on over to Verizon with Google and Android having just set up, it will truly be an Apples to Apples comparison in regard to the consumer having either device at hand to purchase along with a Verizon phone plan. Then one can see which is truly preferred. In fact, have the PRE come along if not there already and let the chips fall where they may! And may the best smart phone "win"!
I can not believe people were surprised about this and that iphone will not go to VZ, all the stupid rumors people were hearing before thinking VZ was talking Apple those rumors were really between VZ Google, Motorola and LG, and you can bet those phones really will not be open, why would they be, the iphone is not really open if you think about it.
Verizon is trying to stop people from moving to the iPhone and the Pre. Remember when they said they will get the iPhone and the Pre early this summer before their release? And now few months later they tell us they are not interested anymore. Verizon is trying to steer people away from buying these phones as much as they can but it doesn't seem to be working well for them
Let's see if Android escapes the fate of Windows. "One OS many devices" eventually runs up against the problem of runaway complexity. [...]
Google will try to address this by publishing a very tight list of phone specs, but they can only go so far with this standardization. What hand set maker wants to sell a phone that is hardly distinguishable from its competitors? So each handset maker will add on their own customized tweaks then it's even worse than Windows. Android would no longer be an OS but a class of OSes. Sorta like Linux as seen by non-geeks. (So there's Ubuntu, and SUSE, and Redhat and what have you and they're all Linux but they're also all different from each other.)
Everything that Google has done so far has been very smart. The separation between OS code (written in C) and application code (written for Dalvik) is very clear and will allow the underlying hardware/software to change without causing major compatibility headaches.
We're not going to see a similar story to desktop Linux where each flavor of the OS uses a different application framework and packaging system. Going even further, there's no technical reason why the Dalvik runtime engine couldn't be ported to Symbian or Windows Mobile, thus producing more compatible devices rather than less.
It depends on your definition of open? Define an open device.
Well I know what closed is- One that's not letting me put on and do with whatever I want with it. In other words - I own the device, it's mine to do with what I want with.
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
perhaps i can explain, from my perspective verizon is notorious for locking out phone capabilties and closing your choices off to line there own pockets. verizon's comment is hypocritical.
i just hope that this will increase competition and drive my phone bill down, i'll stay with ATT because i've not had any, ANY problems with there service or coverage. i'd sure like a $50/month everything plan or less.
teckdude: You gotta stop this "piling on" on annonymouse.
In the first place, as king of the "one liner annoying comment that has nothing to do with the thread," it's more than a bit ironic (and stupid, and offensive) that you keep calling out others on the very thing that you do the most.
Secondly, annoymouse's comments might sometimes be short like yours, but they have about three times the content on average, and are usually on topic.
Your's are not.
Why does AppleInsider even let you post over and over again, that's what I don't understand. You are offensive, you make everything personal, and you never have anything good or relevant to say. You have made deeply personal attacks on people from time to time but never get banned or (apparently) even warned by the moderators. I don't get it unless you are related to someone at AppleInsider or something.
The only time you add anything to the debate is when some more intelligent than yourself (and overly kind), like solipsism re-iterates what you said so that it sounds reasonable or topical, even though it's probably not what you intended to say at all.
Please stop with the one-liner insulting remarks. You aren't funny.
Moderators, please do your job and start giving this person at least the occasional warning. Many more intelligent people who contribute far more to the debates on this site have been banned (temporarily) for less than what teckstud does on a regular basis.
I'm super tired of it myself, how about you?
Ok - let me get this straight- in 9 paragraphs, you're calling me a name, manically whining , and asking the moderators for help in ignoring my posts? That's rich.
I truly hope that Android becomes a success. This will force Apple to compete, which will in turn drive their innovation, which will mean I get continued improvements for my next iPhone.
This is absurd. You have it all backwards. Apple does not now, and never has needed an outside catalyst for innovation. The iPhone IS the innovation that is causing the rest of the industry to dramatically change. The best everyone else can do is try to catch up to where Apple is leading. Apple has no reason to respond to what others are doing. So far, no one has even caught up to the first gen iPhone. With their world-class built-in accessibility features that no one else is even capable of thinking of, Apple is so far out in front with the 3GS, they could rest on their laurels for the next five years. The thing is, they're not resting at all. They are already cooking up the next iteration of the iPhone. If history is any guide, by the time the industry catches up to the present reality, Apple will have warped reality again.
For example, tethering apps tend to find themselves removed from the Android Market. OTOH, you can download and install them yourself--some without rooting the phone. However, if there is a concept of "rooting" the phone at all, it's not an "open" phone.
Despite all that, the iPhone is nowhere near as open as Android, thanks to the App Store being the only legitimate way to install applications--and Apple is the gatekeeper to the App Store. Sure, squelch lowers noise but it can also lower signal.
Apple may not have to worry about Android yet, but they need to keep an eye on it.
So far, no one has even caught up to the first gen iPhone.
I respectfully disagree. The G1 with the latest Android (Donut) is superior to the first-generation iPhone. I've owned both.
I respectfully disagree. The G1 with the latest Android (Donut) is superior to the first-generation iPhone. I've owned both.
The funny thing is everytime I get the dreaded "E" symbol on my 3Gs, I stop to ponder how those initial pioneers could deal with that snail pace. And it didn't even have the faster inerds!
Android is not what I would call "open," but in comparison to the iPhone, it's open.
For example, tethering apps tend to find themselves removed from the Android Market. OTOH, you can download and install them yourself--some without rooting the phone. However, if there is a concept of "rooting" the phone at all, it's not an "open" phone.
Despite all that, the iPhone is nowhere near as open as Android, thanks to the App Store being the only legitimate way to install applications--and Apple is the gatekeeper to the App Store. Sure, squelch lowers noise but it can also lower signal.
Apple may not have to worry about Android yet, but they need to keep an eye on it.
When is AT&T to unleash tethering?
Is the Pre coming to Verizon this year or next? So Verizon actually has a bucketful of iPhone competitors now.
I highly doubt now that iPhone is ever going to Verizon since the news of the past 2 days.
"Is there a Map for that" and now this.
Oh well - looks like I'm stuck with AT&T 'cause I'm sure not as hell going to T-Mobile.
Actually on my "new for me" 2G iPhone, T-mobile has been pretty acceptable. I'll admit it is a step down from Verizon in terms of network coverage. I'm not going to be pulling down 1.5 mbits in the mountains or getting perfect reception on the beach, but it has been tolerable and the plans were cheap. I clocked in as a non-smartphone and got 1000 minutes and unlimited data/messaging for $65.
I could see this deal being the thing that drove the wedge between Schmidt and Jobs, if this is in fact Verizon's alternative to carrying the iPhone.
But I don't see any upside for Verizon in allowing the Pre, Windows Mobile, RIM and Android onto its network with their own app stores but still refusing Apple. Nothing will sell them nearly as many lucrative data plans as the iPhone.
I don't think they are refusing Apple by virture of the fact they allowed all those brands on their network. I think it is Apple that is refusing them.
I don't think they are refusing Apple by virture of the fact they allowed all those brands on their network. I think it is Apple that is refusing them.
I'll tell you one thing - there will be less switchers now from Verizon now that a Pre or an Android can be pushed in a their face at any Verizon store. Same for corporate accounts.
Verizon is pretty shrewd at this game. They're no sleeping giant like MS. Just look at their new "map" ad.