3) Minimize the window using the yellow button in the top left corner.
4) Hit Command+N to open a new TextEdit document.
5) Write "NOT MINIMIZED" in this document.
6) Hit Command+H to hide the application.
7) Activate Expose's "All Windows" view.
Just out of curiosity (I'm using a PC right now so I can't try myself), could you please confirm the result is the same if you create the "NOT MINIMIZED" document first and activate Expose's "All Windows" view right after minimizing the "MINIMIZED" document?
Just out of curiosity (I'm using a PC right now so I can't try myself), could you please confirm the result is the same if you create the "NOT MINIMIZED" document first and activate Expose's "All Windows" view right after minimizing the "MINIMIZED" document?
Yes, it's the same. It has nothing to do with the order in which you perform the steps. Minimized windows of hidden apps always show up in Expose's All Windows mode.
Yes, it's the same. It has nothing to do with the order in which you perform the steps. Minimized windows of hidden apps always show up in Expose's All Windows mode.
And to me that seems logical. The whole purpose of Expose is to show Open apps. It makes sense to me if they are hidden to not show them in Expose. It does not make sense that a window that is minimized wouldn't show.
If you don't want it to show up, hide it instead of minimize it. I prefer the new way as it seems more logical to me. "Hide" actually does what it's name claims. If I open Expose I want to see all apps, otherwise I have to hunt in Expose only to realize it's minimized and then turn around and hunt for it on the dock under Leopard.
I see nothing in this thread that points to Apple admitting fault in this case. I see someone indicating that they believe it's Apple's responsibility, but this type of finger pointing is common when working with Vendors. It appears to be limited to users on software raid, with CS3 (Not sure if that CS3 was a typo in the thread or not) who are saving to the raid array with a new filename. This may be why many of us are not seeing this issue. Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere where Apple has conceded that this was a fault in their code. It appears the Adobe folks didn't do thorough testing however, before signing off that it was certified under SL.
And to me that seems logical. The whole purpose of Expose is to show Open apps. It makes sense to me if they are hidden to not show them in Expose. It does not make sense that a window that is minimized wouldn't show.
For the last time:
You don't hide windows. You hide applications. That means that the minimized windows of a hidden application should also be hidden.
Quote:
If you don't want it to show up, hide it instead of minimize it.
I often have up to 10 PDF documents open on my computer at one time. I use minimize to get 3 or 4 of them out of the way temporarily. I can't hide them, because that would hide ALL of my PDF documents.
If I have a few minimized PDFs, and I temporarily hide Preview so that I can access my Word documents more easily, I don't want the minimized PDFs to show up in Expose. And why would they? Why on earth would I want Expose to show me the minimized windows (but not the maximized windows) of a hidden application? By minimizing the window and then hiding the app, I told the operating system to make those windows go away TWICE.
Do you see now how the usage of minimize and hide differ?
Minimize is window-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting a single window out of your way temporarily. These windows SHOULD show up in Expose (just like all of the app's other windows), UNLESS the app is hidden.
Hide is application-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting ALL of the windows of an application out of your way temporarily. NO windows of a hidden app should appear in Expose.
Expose displaying minimized windows of hidden applications makes no sense whatsoever.
I see nothing in this thread that points to Apple admitting fault in this case. I see someone indicating that they believe it's Apple's responsibility, but this type of finger pointing is common when working with Vendors. It appears to be limited to users on software raid, with CS3 (Not sure if that CS3 was a typo in the thread or not) who are saving to the raid array with a new filename. This may be why many of us are not seeing this issue. Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere where Apple has conceded that this was a fault in their code. It appears the Adobe folks didn't do thorough testing however, before signing off that it was certified under SL.
I'm not saying it is Apple's fault entirely. All I'm saying is that Mac OS X has/can have bugs that causes applications to crash.
Also, (for whatever reason) all versions of Adobe Photoshop has been crashing for us once in a while. 10+ retouchers working full time in Photoshop.
You don't hide windows. You hide applications. That means that the minimized windows of a hidden application should also be hidden.
I often have up to 10 PDF documents open on my computer at one time. I use minimize to get 3 or 4 of them out of the way temporarily. I can't hide them, because that would hide ALL of my PDF documents.
If I have a few minimized PDFs, and I temporarily hide Preview so that I can access my Word documents more easily, I don't want the minimized PDFs to show up in Expose. And why would they? Why on earth would I want Expose to show me the minimized windows (but not the maximized windows) of a hidden application? By minimizing the window and then hiding the app, I told the operating system to make those windows go away TWICE.
Do you see now how the usage of minimize and hide differ?
Minimize is window-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting a single window out of your way temporarily. These windows SHOULD show up in Expose (just like all of the app's other windows), UNLESS the app is hidden.
Hide is application-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting ALL of the windows of an application out of your way temporarily. NO windows of a hidden app should appear in Expose.
Expose displaying minimized windows of hidden applications makes no sense whatsoever.
It may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. Just because you don't like the way it works, doesn't make it illogical. You have a very specific use that is counter productive with Expose. Sounds like you need a combination of Expose and Spaces to better organize your work, or possibly some third party app that would handle that functionality. I wouldn't say the current system is illogical, but rather you need something in between the two extremes.
It may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. Just because you don't like the way it works, doesn't make it illogical.
Nobody said it was illogical "just because [he] do[es]n't like the way it works." Don't be so disingenuous. Putting words in other people's mouths is inappropriate behavior.
Acting as though only a window is hidden, when - ostensibly - the entire application is hidden, is objectively illogical. Logic would dictate: the entire application is hidden; the window is part of the application; therefore the window is hidden. The window is hidden; hidden windows should not show in exposé; therefore the window should not show in exposé. I don't know what "logic" looks like where you come from, but your characterization of it is deficient.
Nobody said it was illogical "just because [he] do[es]n't like the way it works." Don't be so disingenuous. Putting words in other people's mouths is inappropriate behavior.
Acting as though only a window is hidden, when - ostensibly - the entire application is hidden, is objectively illogical. Logic would dictate: the entire application is hidden; the window is part of the application; therefore the window is hidden. The window is hidden; hidden windows should not show in exposé; therefore the window should not show in exposé. I don't know what "logic" looks like where you come from, but your characterization of it is deficient.
Actually they did. Try to keep up, shall we?
Quote:
If maximized windows of hidden applications don't appear in Expose, then minimized windows of hidden applications sure as hell shouldn't either. Expose's behaviour at present makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I believe this would imply 'illogical'?
When you minimize a Window, you are minimizing only a part or aspect of the application, not the application, just as 'closing' an app in OS X doesn't actually close the application. You are only closing that instance.
Hide is application wide. It affects the entire application. Minimize only affects an aspect (instance) of an application. From my perspective, your logic is flawed. If you 'hide' an application, it does not show in Expose. If you just minimize a window, it does. Easy enough.
No, they didn't. And there is no such thing as "logic from someone's perspective." Logic is ipso facto non-subjective.
Your behavior on this board is increasingly inappropriate. It's dramatically impolite to insult the intelligence of the people trying to make you understand a simple concept: hidden applications should not show in exposé, but they do.
In light of your ostensible inability to understand such a simple idea, I've decided that you do not understand because you do not wish to understand. You are, in a word, a troll. Be gone.
No, they didn't. And there is no such thing as "logic from someone's perspective." Logic is ipso facto non-subjective.
Your behavior on this board is increasingly inappropriate. It's dramatically impolite to insult the intelligence of the people trying to make you understand a simple concept: hidden applications should not show in exposé, but they do.
In light of your ostensible inability to understand such a simple idea, I've decided that you do not understand because you do not wish to understand. You are, in a word, a troll. Be gone.
You should learn the definition of Troll. If I disagree with you, it doesn't make me a troll. As to inappropriate, that is your opinion. Ignore me if you wish. It won't bother me in the slightest.
Hide is application wide. It affects the entire application. Minimize only affects an aspect (instance) of an application. From my perspective, your logic is flawed. If you 'hide' an application, it does not show in Expose. If you just minimize a window, it does. Easy enough.
I think you agree with me and you just don't know it.
If you "just minimize" a window, it SHOULD show up in Expose. I agree with you.
But if I subsequently "hide" an application that has minimized windows, then ALL windows of that hidden application (including the minimized ones) should be hidden from Expose.
When it comes to the behaviour of Expose, Hide should take precedence over Minimize because windows belong to applications, not the other way around.
I think you agree with me and you just don't know it.
If you "just minimize" a window, it SHOULD show up in Expose. I agree with you.
But if I subsequently "hide" an application that has minimized windows, then ALL windows of that hidden application (including the minimized ones) should be hidden from Expose.
When it comes to the behaviour of Expose, Hide should take precedence over Minimize because windows belong to applications, not the other way around.
That I do agree with. If you 'hide' an app from the dock, none of them should show. I think the fact that it changed from one way in Leopard to a different way in SL is confusing the thread unless your very clear as to which your speaking about.
Comments
I, for one, continue to be amazed that computers do what they do at all.
Which reminds me of.....Everything's Amazing, Nobody's Happy
Which reminds me of.....Everything's Amazing, Nobody's Happy
That video perfectly describes this thread! Thank you! I had never heard of Louis C.K.
Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
That's Adobe's Responsibility... Not Apples.
1) Open TextEdit.
2) Write "MINIMIZED" in the document.
3) Minimize the window using the yellow button in the top left corner.
4) Hit Command+N to open a new TextEdit document.
5) Write "NOT MINIMIZED" in this document.
6) Hit Command+H to hide the application.
7) Activate Expose's "All Windows" view.
Just out of curiosity (I'm using a PC right now so I can't try myself), could you please confirm the result is the same if you create the "NOT MINIMIZED" document first and activate Expose's "All Windows" view right after minimizing the "MINIMIZED" document?
Just out of curiosity (I'm using a PC right now so I can't try myself), could you please confirm the result is the same if you create the "NOT MINIMIZED" document first and activate Expose's "All Windows" view right after minimizing the "MINIMIZED" document?
Yes, it's the same. It has nothing to do with the order in which you perform the steps. Minimized windows of hidden apps always show up in Expose's All Windows mode.
Yes, it's the same. It has nothing to do with the order in which you perform the steps. Minimized windows of hidden apps always show up in Expose's All Windows mode.
And to me that seems logical. The whole purpose of Expose is to show Open apps. It makes sense to me if they are hidden to not show them in Expose. It does not make sense that a window that is minimized wouldn't show.
If you don't want it to show up, hide it instead of minimize it. I prefer the new way as it seems more logical to me. "Hide" actually does what it's name claims. If I open Expose I want to see all apps, otherwise I have to hunt in Expose only to realize it's minimized and then turn around and hunt for it on the dock under Leopard.
CS4 is not crashing for me. Not even once and I'm a heavy user of Photoshop.
If you would say that to the retouchers where I work I think they would look at you like this:
If you would say that to the retouchers where I work I think they would look at you like this:
I use it heavily as well. Never a single crash under SL. Are you doing some specific function/filter that makes it crash?
That's Adobe's Responsibility... Not Apples.
It's not always that simple. Apple provides the OS/API's and there can be bugs in it that causes problems.
I'm not saying Adobe's code is flawless, but to blame everything on them is a bit naive.
Check the thread on Adobe's forum about Photoshop and Snow Leopard here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/492068?tstart=0
It's not always that simple. Apple provides the OS/API's and there can be bugs in it that causes problems.
I'm not saying Adobe's code is flawless, but to blame everything on them is a bit naive.
Check the thread on Adobe's forum about Photoshop and Snow Leopard here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/492068?tstart=0
I see nothing in this thread that points to Apple admitting fault in this case. I see someone indicating that they believe it's Apple's responsibility, but this type of finger pointing is common when working with Vendors. It appears to be limited to users on software raid, with CS3 (Not sure if that CS3 was a typo in the thread or not) who are saving to the raid array with a new filename. This may be why many of us are not seeing this issue. Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere where Apple has conceded that this was a fault in their code. It appears the Adobe folks didn't do thorough testing however, before signing off that it was certified under SL.
And to me that seems logical. The whole purpose of Expose is to show Open apps. It makes sense to me if they are hidden to not show them in Expose. It does not make sense that a window that is minimized wouldn't show.
For the last time:
You don't hide windows. You hide applications. That means that the minimized windows of a hidden application should also be hidden.
If you don't want it to show up, hide it instead of minimize it.
I often have up to 10 PDF documents open on my computer at one time. I use minimize to get 3 or 4 of them out of the way temporarily. I can't hide them, because that would hide ALL of my PDF documents.
If I have a few minimized PDFs, and I temporarily hide Preview so that I can access my Word documents more easily, I don't want the minimized PDFs to show up in Expose. And why would they? Why on earth would I want Expose to show me the minimized windows (but not the maximized windows) of a hidden application? By minimizing the window and then hiding the app, I told the operating system to make those windows go away TWICE.
Do you see now how the usage of minimize and hide differ?
- Minimize is window-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting a single window out of your way temporarily. These windows SHOULD show up in Expose (just like all of the app's other windows), UNLESS the app is hidden.
- Hide is application-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting ALL of the windows of an application out of your way temporarily. NO windows of a hidden app should appear in Expose.
Expose displaying minimized windows of hidden applications makes no sense whatsoever.I see nothing in this thread that points to Apple admitting fault in this case. I see someone indicating that they believe it's Apple's responsibility, but this type of finger pointing is common when working with Vendors. It appears to be limited to users on software raid, with CS3 (Not sure if that CS3 was a typo in the thread or not) who are saving to the raid array with a new filename. This may be why many of us are not seeing this issue. Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere where Apple has conceded that this was a fault in their code. It appears the Adobe folks didn't do thorough testing however, before signing off that it was certified under SL.
I'm not saying it is Apple's fault entirely. All I'm saying is that Mac OS X has/can have bugs that causes applications to crash.
Also, (for whatever reason) all versions of Adobe Photoshop has been crashing for us once in a while. 10+ retouchers working full time in Photoshop.
For the last time:
You don't hide windows. You hide applications. That means that the minimized windows of a hidden application should also be hidden.
I often have up to 10 PDF documents open on my computer at one time. I use minimize to get 3 or 4 of them out of the way temporarily. I can't hide them, because that would hide ALL of my PDF documents.
If I have a few minimized PDFs, and I temporarily hide Preview so that I can access my Word documents more easily, I don't want the minimized PDFs to show up in Expose. And why would they? Why on earth would I want Expose to show me the minimized windows (but not the maximized windows) of a hidden application? By minimizing the window and then hiding the app, I told the operating system to make those windows go away TWICE.
Do you see now how the usage of minimize and hide differ?
- Minimize is window-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting a single window out of your way temporarily. These windows SHOULD show up in Expose (just like all of the app's other windows), UNLESS the app is hidden.
- Hide is application-specific. It is designed with the express purpose of getting ALL of the windows of an application out of your way temporarily. NO windows of a hidden app should appear in Expose.
Expose displaying minimized windows of hidden applications makes no sense whatsoever.It may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. Just because you don't like the way it works, doesn't make it illogical. You have a very specific use that is counter productive with Expose. Sounds like you need a combination of Expose and Spaces to better organize your work, or possibly some third party app that would handle that functionality. I wouldn't say the current system is illogical, but rather you need something in between the two extremes.
Have you submitted a bug report?
It may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. Just because you don't like the way it works, doesn't make it illogical.
Nobody said it was illogical "just because [he] do[es]n't like the way it works." Don't be so disingenuous. Putting words in other people's mouths is inappropriate behavior.
Acting as though only a window is hidden, when - ostensibly - the entire application is hidden, is objectively illogical. Logic would dictate: the entire application is hidden; the window is part of the application; therefore the window is hidden. The window is hidden; hidden windows should not show in exposé; therefore the window should not show in exposé. I don't know what "logic" looks like where you come from, but your characterization of it is deficient.
Nobody said it was illogical "just because [he] do[es]n't like the way it works." Don't be so disingenuous. Putting words in other people's mouths is inappropriate behavior.
Acting as though only a window is hidden, when - ostensibly - the entire application is hidden, is objectively illogical. Logic would dictate: the entire application is hidden; the window is part of the application; therefore the window is hidden. The window is hidden; hidden windows should not show in exposé; therefore the window should not show in exposé. I don't know what "logic" looks like where you come from, but your characterization of it is deficient.
Actually they did. Try to keep up, shall we?
If maximized windows of hidden applications don't appear in Expose, then minimized windows of hidden applications sure as hell shouldn't either. Expose's behaviour at present makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I believe this would imply 'illogical'?
When you minimize a Window, you are minimizing only a part or aspect of the application, not the application, just as 'closing' an app in OS X doesn't actually close the application. You are only closing that instance.
Hide is application wide. It affects the entire application. Minimize only affects an aspect (instance) of an application. From my perspective, your logic is flawed. If you 'hide' an application, it does not show in Expose. If you just minimize a window, it does. Easy enough.
Actually they did. Try to keep up, shall we?
No, they didn't. And there is no such thing as "logic from someone's perspective." Logic is ipso facto non-subjective.
Your behavior on this board is increasingly inappropriate. It's dramatically impolite to insult the intelligence of the people trying to make you understand a simple concept: hidden applications should not show in exposé, but they do.
In light of your ostensible inability to understand such a simple idea, I've decided that you do not understand because you do not wish to understand. You are, in a word, a troll. Be gone.
No, they didn't. And there is no such thing as "logic from someone's perspective." Logic is ipso facto non-subjective.
Your behavior on this board is increasingly inappropriate. It's dramatically impolite to insult the intelligence of the people trying to make you understand a simple concept: hidden applications should not show in exposé, but they do.
In light of your ostensible inability to understand such a simple idea, I've decided that you do not understand because you do not wish to understand. You are, in a word, a troll. Be gone.
You should learn the definition of Troll. If I disagree with you, it doesn't make me a troll. As to inappropriate, that is your opinion. Ignore me if you wish. It won't bother me in the slightest.
Hide is application wide. It affects the entire application. Minimize only affects an aspect (instance) of an application. From my perspective, your logic is flawed. If you 'hide' an application, it does not show in Expose. If you just minimize a window, it does. Easy enough.
I think you agree with me and you just don't know it.
If you "just minimize" a window, it SHOULD show up in Expose. I agree with you.
But if I subsequently "hide" an application that has minimized windows, then ALL windows of that hidden application (including the minimized ones) should be hidden from Expose.
When it comes to the behaviour of Expose, Hide should take precedence over Minimize because windows belong to applications, not the other way around.
I think you agree with me and you just don't know it.
If you "just minimize" a window, it SHOULD show up in Expose. I agree with you.
But if I subsequently "hide" an application that has minimized windows, then ALL windows of that hidden application (including the minimized ones) should be hidden from Expose.
When it comes to the behaviour of Expose, Hide should take precedence over Minimize because windows belong to applications, not the other way around.
That I do agree with. If you 'hide' an app from the dock, none of them should show. I think the fact that it changed from one way in Leopard to a different way in SL is confusing the thread unless your very clear as to which your speaking about.