Inside Apple's new Mac mini Server

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  • Reply 41 of 176
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Apple can't be selling a whole lot of XServers right now with Intel processors, with all that competition and all, plus the hardware advantage with PPC is gone.



    So in order to keep certain departments functioning...



    Apple Computer> Apple.



    No more XRAID, see where I'm going?



    (no more XServer)



    Just thinking...
  • Reply 42 of 176
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demenas View Post


    MMS supports RAID?



    Yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_...Specifications
  • Reply 43 of 176
    demenasdemenas Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    This is why I don't get the comparison with Windows Home Server. OS X Server has an abundance of services and features and it's not easy to setup and get running. It's "relatively" easy because the same issues/decisions you make for OS X would have to be done on Linux or Windows as well.



    But WIndows SBS, for example, has wizards to do many tasks, that are pretty good (and that don't exist in the regular Windows Server products). Plus Microsoft wrote all the components so you are not dealing with modules from other parties (i.e. Apache).



    Steve
  • Reply 44 of 176
    demenasdemenas Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    What are these many, but not all, things? It doesn?t do RAID, you have to get that from HW RAID, though I prefer that.



    WHS doesn't have the same Disk Manager features as regular Windows Home Server? (i.e. software RAID)?



    Steve
  • Reply 45 of 176
    demenasdemenas Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_...Specifications



    What OS doesn't support software RAID these days?



    Steve
  • Reply 46 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_...Specifications



    Surely the Mms only supports software RAID. And I believe most modern motherboards offer this feature for PCs if you enable it in the BIOS.
  • Reply 47 of 176
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demenas View Post


    What OS doesn't support software RAID these days? =



    It doesn?t look like WHS has it. It uses Drive Extender instead.
  • Reply 48 of 176
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spgennard View Post


    It would have been really nice of Apple to include some support for backup'ing up our machines, so the price of a "Time Capsule minus a drive or two" could be subtracted from the overall price giving us a real comparison with Microsoft Home Server machines, which have a great backup solution built in.



    --

    Stephen



    isn't that exactly what the included time machine server does? it's been included since leopard server and works really well in a mac shop. you turn it on and it shows up as a time machine drive for every leopard machine on the network. am i misunderstanding your post?
  • Reply 49 of 176
    Is this a joke?



    This Mac Mini server market is Steve being convinced to extend more licenses of OS X Server to the hobby markets and hopes enough bite and demand bigger hardware.
  • Reply 50 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swim2383 View Post


    Dan you're tiresome to read. Instead of naming your articles things like "Inside Apple's new Mac mini Server" it should be called "Why Windows Server products suck compared to the new Mac mini server... a rant by Dan"



    I'm reading an Apple specific site. I am already convinced not to buy Windows products so stop lambasting them and tell me about what I want to know about - the new Mac mini. Your primary audience are Mac fanboys so write an article about MACS and not why Macs are better than Windows PCs because I'm already convinced.



    What is really tiresome to read is comments that can't muster anything more than a personal attack on an article's author. If something is wrong or misguided about the article, say what and why. But personal attacks are worthless. If anything, they indicate you really have nothing else.



    It is rather pointless to talk about a product without comparing it to what else exists.
  • Reply 51 of 176
    clexmanclexman Posts: 209member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post


    What is really tiresome to read is comments that can't muster anything more than a personal attack on an article's author. If something is wrong or misguided about the article, say what and why. But personal attacks are worthless. If anything, they indicate you really have nothing else.



    It is rather pointless to talk about a product without comparing it to what else exists.



    Are you saying that it is not possible to review a product without comparing it to the competition?
  • Reply 52 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It doesn?t look like WHS has it. It uses Drive Extender instead.



    Yes it has Drive Extender, but does that preclude someone from going in to Disk Manager and setting up something on their own in addition to that?
  • Reply 53 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clexman View Post


    Are you saying that it is not possible to review a product without comparing it to the competition?



    I guess you haven't read the author or his "Roughlydrafted" site much. Any Apple article spends more time bashing Microsoft than in really discussing the points at hand. Notice how any Linux variant wasn't even considered. His articles just read as veiled excuses to attack Microsoft.



    We're told how Microsoft SBS is limited and costs a lot more, and then lists of SNow Leopard Server features are rattled off with no discussion or analysis of how they rate versus the Microsoft alternatives.



    Steve
  • Reply 54 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbc View Post


    And have you done it? How much of your time did it take? How much of your time do you spend keeping the system patched and up to date? At what hourly rate do you bill out your time? I have actual numbers for all those questions, and it makes this server box look pretty good.



    dbc I salute you! Finally someone that understands the reality of actually getting it done for a client and making a living at the same time while maintaining a reputation for service. All this nit picking about MMS not having this not having that ....... most small business offices (less than 40 - 50 users) aren't going to use all the features of the MMS and they want to be able to jump in and change a password or setup a new user themselves, not call a consultant to do it for several hundred bucks.



    For those concerned about data redundancy, MMS will do software RAID for the Internal drives and if your looking for realtime simple backup of your data, put it on an external drive like Macsales Guardian MAXimus external drive enclosure with dual hard drives in a hardware mirrored configuration and connectivity options of USB, eSATA and Firewire 400 & 800. I actually use one of these drives hooked to my Airport Extreme router by USB for my Time Capsule backups.



    Most of my clients that have lost data have had no backup at all or the backup software failed and no one knew about it. Others have lost data from vandalism (soon to be X employees), direct lightning strikes to the building (everything electrical was gone) theft (server with internal backup taken) and frozen/broken water pipes in the ceiling. I would encourage all small businesses to do some form of offsite backup as these examples above prove that onsite backups can be lost as well.



    The MMS will be a great solution for a lot of small businesses. I think the biggest problem for anyone installing it for a client will be the day you deliver it, take it out of the box and your client looks at it and even if they don't say it out loud they will be thinking it "is this your idea of a bad joke". Most people picture a server as a big noisy box that thumps its chest all day with noisy fans and taking up a lot of space. Thats another beauty of MMS, it can be hidden with little effort.
  • Reply 55 of 176
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demenas View Post


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    If we're comparing the Mac mini server (Mms) to a WHS box then it's easy to see why the mini server is more money.



    Mms supports RAID WHS only allows you to duplicate folders.



    MMS supports RAID?



    Steve



    Well technically "Disk Utility" creates the RAID 0 or RAID 1.
  • Reply 56 of 176
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demenas View Post


    It's not a myth that business wants roadmaps, period.



    Steve



    Correcto but what "is" a myth is assuming that roadmaps are a dealbreaker for businesses. Though it's a moot point because Apple simply doesn't play in the big boy playground where it would even matter.
  • Reply 57 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    While Appleinsider predicted the arrival of a new dual-drive, optical-free Mac mini,



    AppleInsider also "predicted" that the Mac mini was being discontinued in 2007.



    Not bragging about that one?
  • Reply 58 of 176
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    So is this Mac mini server more geared towards business users? I personally have an HP MediaSmart EX485 server that I got from HPShopping for $300 after EPP and Bing Cashback. It came with a 750GB HDD and I added another 750GB HDD that I ripped out of an external USB enclosure.



    It's quite a capable device and I don't think it gets the credit it deserves. I looked at getting a Time Capsule to backup my MacBook Pro, but:



    1) It's overpriced

    2) Doesn't have enough storage space

    3) Doesn't do bare metal/full restores of Windows-based machines.



    With my EX485, I can not only backup my wife's Windows XP-based netbook, but it also backs up my MacBook Pro with Time Machine. HP is also releasing the 3.0 update for the EX485 in December that will allow bare metal restores of Macs which is a big plus for me.



    That being said, I also use it to stream movies/music to my PS3, automatically convert videos to MP4 format to stream to my iPhone using the HP MediaSmart app from anywhere (I can also stream music from my WHS to my iPhone anywhere I have WiFi/cell service) and I have it setup as a uTorrent server.



    To sum things up, WHSs are a nice, cheap alternative option for Mac users IMHO and they require zero maintenance.
  • Reply 59 of 176
    I think Apple has set this server in a very interesting place as far as what it is competing against. While it may seem obvious that you could create an almost exact same Linux system for cheaper, you would be hard pressed to come up with a Linux distro that is as completely set up (initially) as OS X sesrver. Sure anyone with sufficient linux knowledge, time and effort could eventually come up with similar functionality, but I don't see this product aimed at that kind of user (most likely because they wouldn't buy it).



    Small business, which may not have the payroll to employ an expert (lets be honest, setting up a linux server is not simple) would likely opt for an easier to set up system, with, you know, graphical set up tools included. At that point it is fair to start comparing Apple's offering with Windows Server, where the price is indeed hard to beat.
  • Reply 60 of 176
    dbcdbc Posts: 4member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post


    For those concerned about data redundancy, MMS will do software RAID for the Internal drives and if your looking for realtime simple backup of your data, put it on an external drive like Macsales Guardian MAXimus external drive enclosure with dual hard drives in a hardware mirrored configuration and connectivity options of USB, eSATA and Firewire 400 & 800. I actually use one of these drives hooked to my Airport Extreme router by USB for my Time Capsule backups.



    Most of my clients that have lost data have had no backup at all or the backup software failed and no one knew about it.



    When you say: "if you're looking for ... backup" -- that makes me nervous. The "if" word, to be specific, is what makes me nervous. I can tell from your post that you, personally, understand the issue. But please, let's all get in the habit of saying; "RAID is not backup." Everyone needs to hear that more often. Raid only protects you from *one* of the big 'Oh-oh's':



    1. Oh crumbs! My hard drive seized up. RAID is good for that.

    2. Yikes! The power supply (or mobo, or raid controller... ) died during a write and scribbled nonsense on both drives. RAID won't save you.

    3. Oooops... I wish I hadn't deleted that. RAID won't save you.

    4. Crikey.... I must have deleted that file over a week a ago.... neither RAID nor last night's backup will save you.

    5. Waaah! My house/business burned down (or smoke alarm set off the sprinkler system) and took all my customer data with it, along with 5 years of tax data. Only the off-premises backup can save you now.



    Oh... and just for good measure, I found out a few weeks ago that it can be bloody hard to move a RAID set from one Linux system to another unless *every* little thing about software versions, etc, that you compiled into the kernel are absolutely identical. Thank heaven for tarball's.
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