This will go on for years. Oh and yes, meanwhiel Nokia is in a bit of a downard spiral. Can't forget that. Not that it's related.
I thought you were done with your statement. True that Nokia is in a downward spiral but this is to be expected. There are more choices in the market and many more consumers. For anyone, even the Nokia N/E-bots, to think otherwise is short sighted. They will remain on top by virtue of their size but they can kiss more than 40% market share goodbye.
I thought you were done with your statement. True that Nokia is in a downward spiral but this is to be expected. There are more choices in the market and many more consumers. For anyone, even the Nokia N/E-bots, to think otherwise is short sighted. They will remain on top by virtue of their size but they can kiss more than 40% market share goodbye.
Nokia, (WinMo), and RiM all seem to have been caught off guard by the market change. I think WinMo is the most problematic with a very capable Android OS available. Nokia and RiM will lose profits but have plenty of time, money and mindshare to find a way to get back into the game with more modern offerings.
way to drop the f-bomb all the way from Helsinki! Does everybody in Finland work for Nokia?
Way to ask a totally inane question based completely in ineptitude. Does someone working for the State Department mean that someone works for Nokia. They are handing out clues. Pick up a box.
Nokia, (WinMo), and RiM all seem to have been caught off guard by the market change. I think WinMo is the most problematic with a very capable Android OS available. Nokia and RiM will lose profits but have plenty of time, money and mindshare to find a way to get back into the game with more modern offerings.
Any insights on the future on Maemo and any new HW offerings to compete with the upper-echelon if this new smartphone era?
Nothing much. I was lucky to have a few friends from Nokia (where I do not work by the way in case the challenged are listening) allow me to play with both the N97 Mini, and the N900. Both are nice. The N97 Mini is a smaller sister to a disastrous phone, in my opinion, the N97, while the N900 will appeal to the geek in you.
Moto, Nokia are yesterday's news. Moto dominated the 1st generation cellphone tech... yep, they were the top dog. Then came a disruptive tech and they got throw off the hill... Nokia WAS the top dog. Then came CDMA followed by the UMTS version WCDMA. That was totally disruptive to the GSM hegemony controlled by Nokia.
Nokia = $49 - 2G leader - Mostly GSM patents with irrelevant patents on UMTS
QCOM= $73B - 3G leader - has key patents on 3G including CDMA/WCDMA/UMTS and LTE.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
With tech, nobody stays at the top forever. Disruptive tech shows up and the new Gorilla takes over. Not like investing in Exxon, etc.
Moto, Nokia are yesterday's news. Moto dominated the 1st generation cellphone tech... yep, they were the top dog. Then came a disruptive tech and they got throw off the hill... Nokia WAS the top dog. Then came CDMA followed by the UMTS version WCDMA. That was totally disruptive to the GSM hegemony controlled by Nokia.
Nokia = $49 - 2G leader - Mostly GSM patents with irrelevant patents on UMTS
QCOM= $73B - 3G leader - has key patents on 3G including CDMA/WCDMA/UMTS and LTE.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
With tech, nobody stays at the top forever. Disruptive tech shows up and the new Gorilla takes over. Not like investing in Exxon, etc.
Please post these irrelevant UMTS patents, and by the way also post the key patents owned by QCom that aren't cross licensed by Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel, and the other big boys.
Actually the current 3G/UMTS/WCDMA tech was based on QCOM's version of CDMA. Nokia and Ericsson first denied it would work. Then they went to court to nullify but lost... I remember it because I was holding a pile of the stock back in 98-99. In the end Nokia and the GSM cabal created UMTS to dilute QCOM patents and royalties.
I see big chance of Nokia loosing in court... Apple needs to make a example of them.
My God, please, inform you before writing such a uniformed claims.
My God, please, inform you before writing such a uniformed claims.
If you want to find out the relevant patents do the research yourself. Anyway, the only reason UMTS got developed was to circumvent QCOM patents on CDMA. UMTS/3G is simply Wide band CDMA that is asynchronized. Instead of using 1.25 MHz channels, WCDMA uses 5 MHZ asynch channels that do not work very well under hi data loads. Voice and data go in the same WCDMA channel and it creates problems when the data load crowds out voice. That is what happens with ATT among other issues.
The reason QCOM had to x license its patents with Nokia was that UMTS got corrupted with Nokia and other GSM maker patents. Also, QCOM needed the GSM patents to make multi-mode chips.
I can see how these comments rile the folks in Finland. After all Nokia used to dominate the stock exchange and the economy there.
Apple got caught in this mess because everybody got to pile patents, whether essential or not into the UMTS. However, the market place has already decided who the winner and losers are.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
Apple surely did that in the US and they seem to be the first to put a modern standards-based browser on a phone, but weren’t Japan, Korea and Europe using data pretty heavily before the iPhone’s arrival?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD
Voice and data go in the same WCDMA channel and it creates problems when the data load crowds out voice. That is what happens with ATT among other issues.
Speaking of… Here is an article that claims AT&T’s data network usage has gone up ~5000% in the past 3 years. When you consider that the number of users hasn’t even doubled, or gone up 100% (anyone know the exact number?) it’s pretty amazing how much usage that is per phone on average.
Apple surely did that in the US and they seem to be the first to put a modern tandards-based browser on a phonem but weren?t Japan, Korea and Europe using data pretty heavily before the iPhone?s arrival?
Here is an article that claims AT&T?s data network usage has gone up ~5000% in the past 3 years. When you consider that the number of users hasn?t even doubled, or gone up 100% (anyone know the exact number?) it?s pretty amazing how much usage that is per phone on average.
I see big chance of Nokia loosing in court... Apple needs to make a example of them.
If you are going to continue to jump on your high horse and say exactly the same thing over and over again, can I please ask one thing of you, can you learn how to spell the word lose. I don't care if you spell anyother word wrong, but lose, and loose are very different words, with very different meanings
pressure nokia several ways put pressure on the sales side.....pressure from the expense side
and you dilute nokia's ability to spend on other things like patents, r and d etc
so what a way to weaken your foe
don't you think other licensee's are watching this?
if apple wins a lower rate others get that rate further diluting nokia's ability to spend and fight
time is on money's side, 30billion and no debt
if nokia did nothing it would be crushed faster, but this will linger SJ will continue the pressure then get others to join his fight, hey everyone wants a discount
SJ WIN WIN WIN position
this is an interesting strategy to fight the competition and SJ doesn't take prisoners
nokia's product line is weak, they know it and apple has tons of patents probably in the way that nokia wants to grow and move their products....SJ will probably let them wait at the door
so in two years whose market share will be greater. SJ has some other plans
what happens when they go to LTE?
next move......a merger.....nokia and ??????
it won't be google.....hmmm maybe MOTO.....Palm.....RIM?
wait i bet in less than 1 year their will be a merger.....
nokia wants this as bargaining power for something IT wants from apple.....hmmmmm what does apple have that nokia needs...
Apple is already paying close to $50/phone to the IPR holders for the use of UMTS/3G and GSM.
if that is true then it makes things a tad interesting and could explain why they haven't replied yet. Nokia was sued by Qualcomn over some of the same patents and all reports are that they hold the licensing rights together along with like 5 other companies that are part of the 'standards'. I can't believe that Apple's lawyers were not aware of this and didn't pay appropriate fees to the group. if they did then it comes off that Nokia is trying to double dip.
Comments
And what? Do you think Nokia will close down and move to the US?
When did I say that?
This will go on for years. Oh and yes, meanwhiel Nokia is in a bit of a downard spiral. Can't forget that. Not that it's related.
When did I say that?
This will go on for years. Oh and yes, meanwhiel Nokia is in a bit of a downard spiral. Can't forget that. Not that it's related.
I thought you were done with your statement. True that Nokia is in a downward spiral but this is to be expected. There are more choices in the market and many more consumers. For anyone, even the Nokia N/E-bots, to think otherwise is short sighted. They will remain on top by virtue of their size but they can kiss more than 40% market share goodbye.
I thought you were done with your statement. True that Nokia is in a downward spiral but this is to be expected. There are more choices in the market and many more consumers. For anyone, even the Nokia N/E-bots, to think otherwise is short sighted. They will remain on top by virtue of their size but they can kiss more than 40% market share goodbye.
Nokia, (WinMo), and RiM all seem to have been caught off guard by the market change. I think WinMo is the most problematic with a very capable Android OS available. Nokia and RiM will lose profits but have plenty of time, money and mindshare to find a way to get back into the game with more modern offerings.
He is what some might consider: Informed and divorced from rabid Apple fanboism.
way to drop the f-bomb all the way from Helsinki! Does everybody in Finland work for Nokia?
way to drop the f-bomb all the way from Helsinki! Does everybody in Finland work for Nokia?
Way to ask a totally inane question based completely in ineptitude. Does someone working for the State Department mean that someone works for Nokia. They are handing out clues. Pick up a box.
Nokia, (WinMo), and RiM all seem to have been caught off guard by the market change. I think WinMo is the most problematic with a very capable Android OS available. Nokia and RiM will lose profits but have plenty of time, money and mindshare to find a way to get back into the game with more modern offerings.
True dat.
True dat.
Any insights on the future on Maemo and any new HW offerings to compete with the upper-echelon if this new smartphone era?
Any insights on the future on Maemo and any new HW offerings to compete with the upper-echelon if this new smartphone era?
Nothing much. I was lucky to have a few friends from Nokia (where I do not work by the way in case the challenged are listening) allow me to play with both the N97 Mini, and the N900. Both are nice. The N97 Mini is a smaller sister to a disastrous phone, in my opinion, the N97, while the N900 will appeal to the geek in you.
The market has certainly voted by market cap:
Moto = $21B -1G leader - Analog leader, sucking wind everywhere
Nokia = $49 - 2G leader - Mostly GSM patents with irrelevant patents on UMTS
QCOM= $73B - 3G leader - has key patents on 3G including CDMA/WCDMA/UMTS and LTE.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
With tech, nobody stays at the top forever. Disruptive tech shows up and the new Gorilla takes over. Not like investing in Exxon, etc.
Moto, Nokia are yesterday's news. Moto dominated the 1st generation cellphone tech... yep, they were the top dog. Then came a disruptive tech and they got throw off the hill... Nokia WAS the top dog. Then came CDMA followed by the UMTS version WCDMA. That was totally disruptive to the GSM hegemony controlled by Nokia.
The market has certainly voted by market cap:
Moto = $21B -1G leader - Analog leader, sucking wind everywhere
Nokia = $49 - 2G leader - Mostly GSM patents with irrelevant patents on UMTS
QCOM= $73B - 3G leader - has key patents on 3G including CDMA/WCDMA/UMTS and LTE.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
With tech, nobody stays at the top forever. Disruptive tech shows up and the new Gorilla takes over. Not like investing in Exxon, etc.
Please post these irrelevant UMTS patents, and by the way also post the key patents owned by QCom that aren't cross licensed by Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel, and the other big boys.
Nokia WAS the top dog. Then came CDMA followed by the UMTS version WCDMA. That was totally disruptive to the GSM hegemony controlled by Nokia.
Nokia = $49 - 2G leader - Mostly GSM patents with irrelevant patents on UMTS
Yes, GSM is irrelevant today in the world. CDMA has won the battle and all the TelCo's have changed their networks.
Funny comment
iPhone is CDMA, isn't?
Actually the current 3G/UMTS/WCDMA tech was based on QCOM's version of CDMA. Nokia and Ericsson first denied it would work. Then they went to court to nullify but lost... I remember it because I was holding a pile of the stock back in 98-99. In the end Nokia and the GSM cabal created UMTS to dilute QCOM patents and royalties.
I see big chance of Nokia loosing in court... Apple needs to make a example of them.
My God, please, inform you before writing such a uniformed claims.
My God, please, inform you before writing such a uniformed claims.
If you want to find out the relevant patents do the research yourself. Anyway, the only reason UMTS got developed was to circumvent QCOM patents on CDMA. UMTS/3G is simply Wide band CDMA that is asynchronized. Instead of using 1.25 MHz channels, WCDMA uses 5 MHZ asynch channels that do not work very well under hi data loads. Voice and data go in the same WCDMA channel and it creates problems when the data load crowds out voice. That is what happens with ATT among other issues.
The reason QCOM had to x license its patents with Nokia was that UMTS got corrupted with Nokia and other GSM maker patents. Also, QCOM needed the GSM patents to make multi-mode chips.
I can see how these comments rile the folks in Finland. After all Nokia used to dominate the stock exchange and the economy there.
Apple got caught in this mess because everybody got to pile patents, whether essential or not into the UMTS. However, the market place has already decided who the winner and losers are.
Apple has the killer app that drove the demand for broadband/3G. Until they showed with the iPhone, few bothered to use mobile broadband. I had an HTC Win Mobile. Totally useless, except for paper weight.
Apple surely did that in the US and they seem to be the first to put a modern standards-based browser on a phone, but weren’t Japan, Korea and Europe using data pretty heavily before the iPhone’s arrival?
Voice and data go in the same WCDMA channel and it creates problems when the data load crowds out voice. That is what happens with ATT among other issues.
Speaking of… Here is an article that claims AT&T’s data network usage has gone up ~5000% in the past 3 years. When you consider that the number of users hasn’t even doubled, or gone up 100% (anyone know the exact number?) it’s pretty amazing how much usage that is per phone on average.
Apple surely did that in the US and they seem to be the first to put a modern tandards-based browser on a phonem but weren?t Japan, Korea and Europe using data pretty heavily before the iPhone?s arrival?
Here is an article that claims AT&T?s data network usage has gone up ~5000% in the past 3 years. When you consider that the number of users hasn?t even doubled, or gone up 100% (anyone know the exact number?) it?s pretty amazing how much usage that is per phone on average.
That was so easy. It must have been fun.....
I see big chance of Nokia loosing in court... Apple needs to make a example of them.
If you are going to continue to jump on your high horse and say exactly the same thing over and over again, can I please ask one thing of you, can you learn how to spell the word lose. I don't care if you spell anyother word wrong, but lose, and loose are very different words, with very different meanings
AnI smell a rate here. That endgadget article sounds like one written by Nokia shills... they like to use them.
As opposed to all the Apple fanbois posting without knowledge here?
..... it would be standard practice for Apple to countersue ....
If it's 'standard practice' to countersue, I wonder why we need experts to validate a headline such as: "Apple predicted to countersue".
nokia is the #1 selling smart phone
divide and conquer
pressure nokia several ways put pressure on the sales side.....pressure from the expense side
and you dilute nokia's ability to spend on other things like patents, r and d etc
so what a way to weaken your foe
don't you think other licensee's are watching this?
if apple wins a lower rate others get that rate further diluting nokia's ability to spend and fight
time is on money's side, 30billion and no debt
if nokia did nothing it would be crushed faster, but this will linger SJ will continue the pressure then get others to join his fight, hey everyone wants a discount
SJ WIN WIN WIN position
this is an interesting strategy to fight the competition and SJ doesn't take prisoners
nokia's product line is weak, they know it and apple has tons of patents probably in the way that nokia wants to grow and move their products....SJ will probably let them wait at the door
so in two years whose market share will be greater. SJ has some other plans
what happens when they go to LTE?
next move......a merger.....nokia and ??????
it won't be google.....hmmm maybe MOTO.....Palm.....RIM?
wait i bet in less than 1 year their will be a merger.....
nokia wants this as bargaining power for something IT wants from apple.....hmmmmm what does apple have that nokia needs...
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3510...re-of-qualcomm
http://www.sramanamitra.com/2008/05/...-and-qualcomm/
Apple is already paying close to $50/phone to the IPR holders for the use of UMTS/3G and GSM.
if that is true then it makes things a tad interesting and could explain why they haven't replied yet. Nokia was sued by Qualcomn over some of the same patents and all reports are that they hold the licensing rights together along with like 5 other companies that are part of the 'standards'. I can't believe that Apple's lawyers were not aware of this and didn't pay appropriate fees to the group. if they did then it comes off that Nokia is trying to double dip.
nice big mess indeed