Politically Correct?
<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134390237_statue12.html"; target="_blank">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134390237_s tatue12.html</a>
"NEW YORK ? A statue based on the famous photograph of the flag-raising at the World Trade Center site is being criticized because the three white firefighters in the picture have been transformed into one white, one black and one Hispanic."
Um...yeah...so it was inspired. Is that an excuse? I don't know but if he's going to put a black man and a latino up there, the designer may as well add a fourth or fifth dude. Where are the AZNs, yo? How about an Arab?
I think it's lame, lame, lame. I wonder how the real firemen feel...
"Gee, I don't *feeeeeeel* black..."
I'm just surprised there's not another white-looking one there with a yarmulke and a Star of David flying out of his ass or something.
[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
"NEW YORK ? A statue based on the famous photograph of the flag-raising at the World Trade Center site is being criticized because the three white firefighters in the picture have been transformed into one white, one black and one Hispanic."
Um...yeah...so it was inspired. Is that an excuse? I don't know but if he's going to put a black man and a latino up there, the designer may as well add a fourth or fifth dude. Where are the AZNs, yo? How about an Arab?
I think it's lame, lame, lame. I wonder how the real firemen feel...
"Gee, I don't *feeeeeeel* black..."
I'm just surprised there's not another white-looking one there with a yarmulke and a Star of David flying out of his ass or something.
[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Comments
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Goes hand-in-hand with the feel-good history revisionists and the "dig up dirt on the Founding Fathers" brigade.
It's funny: sometimes I'll be watching a commercial (or I'll see an ad in magazine) and it'll be SO heavy-handed and cheesy in its attempts to "include one of everything and appeal to EVERYBODY".
I mean, you'll see an ad for a plumber or air conditioner repairman (err, excuse me... repairPERSON) and everyone in the damn house is every color, gender, etc. you can imagine.
Roto-Rooter guy rings the bell and 16 Hilfiger-clad kids answer (obviously having a Super Bowl party, or possibly an interracial swing orgy...I tend to want to imagine the latter, because I'm just that way...) and there's dreadlock guy, Asian girl, black guy with glasses, hispanic girl, lesbian in a wheelchair, an Eskimo, two Samoans...AND a token honky, usually in the form of the laborer or visiting repairman.
"That'll show 'em! Make whitey crawl all up under this house and unclog our toilet!".
I'm betting before this whole statue thing is over, one of them will be a woman. And one of them might be autistic or alcoholic. If we're REALLY lucky, one will be in a wheelchair and in the latter stages of a sex change operation.
Idiots.
Yeah, I thought so...
What the hell, I hate this bullcrap.
Ever seen when Bush interacts with kids on TV? It's always black and white kids.
must calm down
<strong>It's a little known fact that Jamestown was settled by gay and lesbian refugees.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You guys are just upset because it's racial. If they had changed one of the poses, or what one of them was wearing, or anything else, you wouldn't have cared at all.
"Gee, maybe if I make the three guys look the way I *wish* they had been, everyone will actually think that's the way they WERE."
Asshole(s). Like there is something wrong with three white guys raising a flag in tribute to fallen comrades (of all colors). Fu*king ultra-liberal [BS]. If you want to do something that is symbolic and not literal, fine, make the guys any color you want, and have them doing whatever you like. But if you're trying to recapture the moment, then the three guys -- by definition -- have to be white. Period.
Not a racial thing, it's a factual thing. To say we wouldn't care about inaccurate details like clothing, is to totally miss the point. Maybe the guy who did the statue of Iwojima should've included a few women and some generals too, because you know...it would read more like a storybook. The scene that unfolded with those three firemen was what it was. To try and change it to make a social statement is bullcrap.
Stupid hippies! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
Moogs above says it pretty well. As do a couple of others. I highly doubt Eugene, applenut and others who've raised their disapproval about this are doing it because of any issues of race.
If you're going to base a statue on a true, real-life, "captured on film for all the world to see", then make it accurate and reflect that. Anything else seems hollow and pandering to me.
Otherwise, simply create a nice statue that ISN'T based on that famous photograph and simply use it to depict various races, genders, etc.
I assure you, NONE of us would have a problem with that whatsoever. Simply showing firemen of various ethnic backgrounds working in the rubble or comforting one another, OR carrying out a fallen comrade would be a beautiful statement.
But, like Moogs said, this photo exists. We've all seen it. It's real. It WOULD be like adding a general, a woman, a Japanese-American and who-knows-what-else to the Iwo Jima statue, when we all know there were none there, raising the flag.
Not at all an issue of race, simply one of accuracy and truth.
<strong>Folks, this isn't history, it's art. It's a statue, not a history book. They just used the photo as a model.
You guys are just upset because it's racial. If they had changed one of the poses, or what one of them was wearing, or anything else, you wouldn't have cared at all.</strong><hr></blockquote>
uh.. THEY are being racial. if we are all supposed to be equal why does a black and hispanic guy have to be equal./
<strong>
Moogs above says it pretty well. As do a couple of others. I highly doubt Eugene, applenut and others who've raised their disapproval about this are doing it because of any issues of race.</strong><hr></blockquote>
defnitely not. if a black guy was one of the three he should be a black guy in the statue but to "add one in" just to be "politically correct" is ridiculous and an insult to the firefights who actually did raise the flag.
Are the people who get upset about the racial switch going to get as upset if the artist decides to give the firemen bigger biceps, or make the flag bigger, or omit a playboy that happen to be part of the rubble (if that were the case), etc...
Don't forget that the picture of the flag raising at Iwo Jima was staged.
<strong>I'm with BRussell on this one. If they had chosen to give the men manniquen faces with no racial features at all no one would through a fuss. It's art, stupid! It's meant to be symbolic not photo-accurate. I agree that it's ridiculous to always apply a racial filter to something to make sure it's representative, but the filter works both ways.
Are the people who get upset about the racial switch going to get as upset if the artist decides to give the firemen bigger biceps, or make the flag bigger, or omit a playboy that happen to be part of the rubble (if that were the case), etc...
Don't forget that the picture of the flag raising at Iwo Jima was staged.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think if you were a firemen or even had a clue you would think differently.
Actually, I believe painting an accurate picture of the Founding Fathers is preferrable to the prevailing belief that they were perfect and everything they said and did was without fault.
Which is a hell of a lot more revisionist, if you ask me.
[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: DoctorGonzo ]</p>
I can't believe they did that.
I can't tell from the picture, but I remember a pretty out-of-shape (fat) Fireman, too. Does anyone think that they slimmed him down for the picture as well?
What's wrong with a FAT hero?
(Next, let's check their bulges. Did they leave 'white' bulges, or is there a 'black' bulge?)
Of all the boards I've been to, this one seems to have the most intelligent & well educated readers. I'm glad to realize, once again, that I'm not the only one who thinks that artificial diversity is an insulting phenomenon.
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I think if you were a firemen or even had a clue you would think differently.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, if you bothered to read the article you would have noticed that the Fire Department was behind the idea and so was the Vulcan Society (which represents black firemen). So, it would seem that quite a lot of firemen are ok with it. It's fitting that you would think that all firemen would think alike since this is the very mentality that finds diversity so insidious.
Let me suggest that if you were a relative of one of the 12 black firemen that died fighting the fire you MIGHT think differently.