AT&T defends its data network from Verizon ad attacks

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  • Reply 41 of 221
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,578member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    AT&T phones work outside the country. Verizon's phones don't. Enough said.



    I just traveled through Europe with my iPhone, and had blazing fast Internet speeds everywhere I went, along with perfect call quality.



    What does any of that have to do with AT&T and Verizon which are talking about U.S., i.e. domestic calling?



    I understand the point you are making, but it's not relevant to the discussion.
  • Reply 42 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shawnb View Post


    AT&T is suing because they have no other argument. The AT&T 2.5G covers less area at slower speeds than the Verizon 3G network. Yes, AT&T 3G is faster, if you're in the right area and can maintain a connection. That's not exactly good ad material.



    Actually... you're wrong. AT&T uses HSPA... and that's not 3G, it's 3.5G, so the commercial should say: Verizon's 3G map vs AT&T's 3.5G map. That would be a fair comparison.
  • Reply 43 of 221
    shawnbshawnb Posts: 155member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heffeque View Post


    Actually... you're wrong. AT&T uses HSPA... and that's not 3G, it's 3.5G, so the commercial should say: Verizon's 3G map vs AT&T's 3.5G map. That would be a fair comparison.



    Well then AT&T's ads should claim that they have the "fastest 3.5G network".
  • Reply 44 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post


    Thank you. The lack of comprehension around here and the entire tech world when it comes to ADVERTISING is absolutely ridiculous. That, and half the people who create user names on forums/post on said forums, are around the age of the 14, so the effects of advertising can be understood.



    Why AI is such a hapless victim of marketing, I can't begin to explain....





    You need to stop forgetting your medication.
  • Reply 45 of 221
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dm3 View Post


    Complete BS on the part of AI. Really calls into question AI's credibility and motivation.



    Actually, when it comes to this particular AI author, there is no question about motivation. He writes interesting articles, but you have to read them with the knowledge that he is one of the biggest Apple-can-do-no-wrong fanboys out there. And apparently this blatant bias is now being extended to ATT because they have the iPhone.
  • Reply 46 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Carrier wars?



    LOL. They should know by now that the hardware makes your carrier. AT&T is proof. You can have a lousy carrier, and that will present some natural limitations, but if you've got the device(s) everyone wants, you'll do fine. Obviously, there's a limit to what people will put up with, but as we've seen, they're willing to put up with a lot.



    That may be true in Canada but I'm ot sure its the same in the US. TMobile for example could come out with the best phone the world has ever seen and people would not run to Tmobile because their network is really poor. Sprint has a pretty good network but for some reason they have really fallen out of favor. In the US there are also alot of local networks like Metro PCS here in Altanta.



    At least here Verizon and ATT really have a grip on things so its really only those two that could pull more users with hardware options. I think by now ATT would be in pretty bad shape if Verizon had taken the iPhone. No one would even be taking about ATT.
  • Reply 47 of 221
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I can guarantee you, you can go out into those rural areas where Verizon says it has good 3G coverage and find people who says they get no Verizon signal.



    It isn't true that AT&T has done nothing to improve 3G coverage. AT&T has invested billions in improving 3G. Its a race against the iPhone. The iPhone uses as much bandwidth as AT&T builds. AT&T is just barely staying ahead of the bandwidth demand from the iPhone.



    That's how all new networks roll outs happen. Everyone starts in a few cities and gradually rolls it out nationwide over a number of years.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dm3 View Post


    Verizon is very fair in showing its 3G coverage is 5x ATT.



    AT&T hasn't doing anything noticeable to improve 3G coverage. And even its edge coverage is poor in many places.



    Its embarrassing that AT&T can claim HSDPA 7.2mbit rollout when only going to a few cities when almost all their network is stuck at glacially slow EDGE.



  • Reply 48 of 221
    Actually, the watershed between 2G and 3G was never about the bit rates. And EDGE is indeed different from GPRS. But all that is, sure, out of scope when it comes to "I never had dropped calls with AT&T - And my VZW service is fast as hell".
  • Reply 49 of 221
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    This may be the case in your area, that does not mean its the case in every area.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skaeight View Post


    I have an iPhone and AT&T, but I really have to call BS on this article. I live in an area that doesn't yet have 3G so I know first hand what EDGE is like. Also up until August when I switched to AT&T for the iPhone I had Verizon with a Blackberry 8330 which is EVDO rev.0. I can assure you that my blackberry on verizon (evdo rev.0) was light years faster than my iPhone is on EDGE.



  • Reply 50 of 221
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Apple was saying that the iPhone 3G was twice as fast as the original iPhone. That was true in several different ways. What is misleading about that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    I doubt that Verizon would even claim that it's telling the whole story. It's called marketing, folks. And really isn't any different than when Apple claimed "twice as fast" for the iPhone 3G. There were far more footnotes on those ads than there are on Verizon's. There are people suing Apple for those claims, and that barely got a mention on AI and those people were scoffed at on these message boards as being uninformed buyers who should have done their research before making their purchase.



  • Reply 51 of 221
    If Verizon was to originally go with the iphone would they have been able to handle the capacity unless they crippled the phone or had some additional fee for unlimited data access?



    Just think that if they were overloaded people would be complaining about them.
  • Reply 52 of 221
    There are some good points in the article but some of the data that it uses as premises are wrong.



    EVDO Rev. A Max is 3.1 Mbps not 1.4 Mbps



    See excerpt from Wikipedia



    ********



    The EV-DO feature of CDMA2000 networks provides access to mobile devices with forward link air interface speeds of up to 2.4 Mbit/s with Rev. 0 and up to 3.1 Mbit/s with Rev. A. The reverse link rate for Rev. 0 can operate up to 153 kbit/s, while Rev. A can operate at up to 1.8 Mbit/s. It was designed to be operated end-to-end as an IP based network, and so it can support any application which can operate on such a network and bit rate constraints.



    ********



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution-Data_Optimized
  • Reply 53 of 221
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post


    Um, Apple went to Verizon first but Verizon didn't want to play their game.



    Yes Verizon did not want a phone it could not control.



    Quote:

    What you don't know is that Apple is creating that CDMA universal phone for next year and is pretty much begging Verizon to take it.



    Are you serious?



    Quote:

    The iPhone can only go so far as an AT&T exclusive and AT&T is going to be even further behind the times next year when Verizon begins rolling out 4G.



    It will take some years for VZ to get LTE in a viable position for people to actually use. AT&T's HDPA network will keep getting faster, while VZ will have an aging EVDO network and a immature LTE network.



    Quote:

    AT&T has delayed their 4G rollout to 2011 or later. Verizon has already tested 4G and plans to roll it out simultaneously in about 30 or more markets next year. All those markets will be available on rollout day and their will be Android phones ready and able to handle 4G.



    That is because AT&T has HDPA and has no need to rush LTE like VZ does.



    Quote:

    The truth is that Verizon has a much better infrastructure and backbone than AT&T and any other carrier. And that quick 4G rollout is whythey haven't further expanded 3G as AT&T has slowly been doing.



    VZ currently has no LTE infrastructure and its roll out will not be quick.



    Quote:

    As for iPhone users on AT&T's network, I know several and all complain about how slow the network is and how the iPhones don't work half the time, or so it seems.



    Yes that is the reason AT&T adds over a million iPhone users each quarter, because the iPhone is slow and does not work.



    Quote:

    If AT&T were so wonderful then why do they even make a CDMA phone? It also doesn't make sense with the 4G rollout unless Apple is intentionally crippling the iPhone to make sure their AT&T version of the phone doesn't get hammered.



    The CDMA phone is just a rumor, the rest of what you're saying makes no sense.



    Quote:

    Because if Verizon offered a 4G iPhone next year then all the Apple fanboys would ditch AT&T at light speed and head straight to VZW if AT&T was stuck with 2.5G mostly with a bit of 3G thrown in. But Verizon will have a 4G Droid next year with no slider keyboard, just the touchscreen. They will have that and a couple of other 4G phones ready to go as they put LTE on top of their CDMA network.



    There will be no 4G phones next year. These things don't happen that quickly.



    Quote:

    What's going to happen is either Apple will be forced to dump its demands or they'll have to face having their phone on a terribly backwards network next year compared to Verizon's LTE network that should be in over 50 markets by the end of 2010 when AT&T begins merely field testing 4G.



    What you don't understand is that LTE is designed to be an evolution from HDPA. The network that AT&T uses for them it will be a smooth transition. LTE is not designed to be an evolution from CDMA, that is the reason VZ has to begin to work with it because it may not be a smooth transition.



    Quote:

    By next year the iPhone will be left in the dust unless Apple undermines AT&T and releases a 4G phone for VZW. That actually could be the reason for the CDMA chip - to support the larger VZW network that has the best overall coverage in the country. But if Verizon gets a 4G iPhone (and they might try for their own exclusivity deal on the 4G version) then I expect the guy who wrote this article to suddenly sing Verizon's praises and talk about how bad AT&T was.





    You really don't understand how this all works.
  • Reply 54 of 221
    AT&T, I don't know who you're trying to kid, but for a proof-is-in-the-pudding demonstration, come on out to my town here in Silicon Valley and I'll show you how much your coverage sucks compared to Verizon.



    I'm not in the middle of Montana. I'm in Saratoga, California, and your dead spots far outweigh any Verizon deadspots. To try and gather some unscientific data, my wife, who uses Verizon, and I have driven around the Valley quite a few times, and where I will drop 3 or 4 calls, she'll drop zero.



    So make your whining claims all you want, but the proof is in the jello.
  • Reply 55 of 221
    I linger here because I love my iPhone but never posted. After reading this article I had to finally register. I currently own two phones. My personal phone which is my iPhone and a work Blackberry which is on Verizon. Because of this I compare phones daily. I purchased my iPhone when I lived in Savannah GA and could not have been happier with it. Worked flawless, 3G everywhere not one dropped call in a year. I just moved to the DC area and the AT&T service here is garbage at best. My phone will show full bars, 3G and I will drop calls. I can not even use the phone in my home because it will ALWAYS drop the call and I live 12 miles south of DC and the AT&T coverage map says I have full 3G. My wife has her iPhone and it is so bad she doesnt even use it anymore. My son has a standard AT&T phone and he drops acalls as well, it is very bad. On the other hand my Verizon phone just works, works everywhere I take it. I travel all over the country and have found the farther I head west, the worse my iPhone gets. I have been in area's that I have nothing on my iPhone and full data on my Blackberry. When Verizon gets the iPhone I will be moving there very quickly. Just an observation from someone who uses both carriers on a daily basis.
  • Reply 56 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    There will be no 4G phones next year. These things don't happen that quickly.



    There will be such phones; next iPhone will in all probability be 4G-ready. There will be no carriers actually having commercial 4G networks.
  • Reply 57 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    At least here Verizon and ATT really have a grip on things so its really only those two that could pull more users with hardware options. I think by now ATT would be in pretty bad shape if Verizon had taken the iPhone. No one would even be taking about ATT.



    Is Verizon's 3g service in metro Atlanta much better than ATT? I've been to Atlanta and used my iPhone and the service seemed really nice. I live in a rural area and typically have to make do with edge service which is pretty marginal IMO.



    I have been to Houston and ATT service there was surprisingly poor. I dropped calls in my hotel room and I was in a Houston proper not some remote suburb.
  • Reply 58 of 221
    mark2005mark2005 Posts: 1,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post


    Um, Apple went to Verizon first but Verizon didn't want to play their game.



    What you don't know is that Apple is creating that CDMA universal phone for next year and is pretty much begging Verizon to take it.



    Maybe Apple is or isn't developing a CDMA universal phone, but one thing is for sure: Apple isn't the one doing the begging.



    And by the way, my iPhone works just fine. Four dropped calls so far; no worse than my previous phone on T-mobile.
  • Reply 59 of 221
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heffeque View Post


    Actually... you're wrong. AT&T uses HSPA... and that's not 3G, it's 3.5G, so the commercial should say: Verizon's 3G map vs AT&T's 3.5G map. That would be a fair comparison.



    FFS people, you're missing the point, 2.5G, 3.5G... it's USELESS anyway, so call it what you want, it's full of holes and a bag of crap in major cities.
  • Reply 60 of 221
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    LTE Handset in 2010 a Longshot Despite 4G iPhone Hope: Most chip vendors won?t have the silicon ready to support an LTE phone next year, and those that do just don?t see the business case.



    LTE Handset in 2010 a Longshot Despite 4G iPhone Hope - Telephony









    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    There will be such phones; next iPhone will in all probability be 4G-ready. There will be no carriers actually having commercial 4G networks.



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