As far as CDMA if Apple plans to offer a phone on Verizon in 2010/2011 it will need a CDMA chip for voice. A voice standard for LTE does not currently exist a proposed technical proposal is available Verizon One Voice Initative but obviously if they are still discussing the standard to expect a finalized standard in 2010 is optimistic.
Verizon is using planning on using CDMA for voice indefinitely at this point. It uses good audio codec, it?s lower power than LTE and it?s well established. I think future voice for LTE will simply be VoIP with QoS. There are other things you can do to make it real time but I think that keeping it IP is the going to be standard for complete LTE networks.
If CDMA is on the way out, then theoretically the CMDA patents will be dropping in value and presumably Qualcomm will lower their licensing fees.
(Now if I just deleted the "if" "theoretically" and "presumably" then I could be a paid industry analyst, too! )
Guess what another name for the 3G standard use by the Iphone is? WCDMA and as was said earlier in the thread Qualcomm hold many of the key patents for 3G and 4G so Apple will pay royalties to Qualcomm for whoever's chipset they use.
If CDMA is on the way out, then theoretically the CMDA patents will be dropping in value and presumably Qualcomm will lower their licensing fees.
There are plenty of Qualcomm patents in 3GSM and LTE specs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats
As far as royalties rumor said Apple was paying only 1.6% to Qualcomm under the current agreement not 5.5%. That probably because they are using Interdigital & Infineon IP in the Infineon baseband.
Guess what another name for the 3G standard use by the Iphone is? WCDMA and as was said earlier in the thread Qualcomm hold many of the key patents for 3G and 4G so Apple will pay royalties to Qualcomm for whoever's chipset they use.
WCDMA is for the air interface, but yes, they old lots of patents. Even with the TD-SCDMA that China uses Qualcomm still holds patents. Qualcomm may be losing ground but they are still well integrated into the future of mobile network communications.
Can someone verify this? Why would it be out of the question? Are field trials assumed to occur in the US and the US only? What about the Australian outback?
Most Verizon customers do not roam into GSM only territory. Even if they do, why would they want to pay the huge roaming fee of $1+/min? Cheaper to get a $30 used GSM phone with cheaper SIM card.
If Apple has done milking ATT, and wants to go with Verizon it is better off doing a CDMA phone only. Buy a CDMA/EVDO chipset from QCOM and negotiate a royalty break from QCOM like everybody else. This way they do not have pay to the UMTS group.
It does not make sense to sell CDMA/UMTS phones all over the world. The chips set would be expensive, bulky, plus would need separate power amps, antennas, etc. Then the combined royalties. That is why we do not see too many of these world phones.
Anyway, LTE may get deployed a lot faster than expected. Huawei, the Chinese upstart is sellng dirt cheap LTE Basestations. This is just part of the cost... then there is fiber network, and routers which Huawei also makes. The devil here is the handset chips and their power consumption and that has not started field trials. I guess the Chinese will get to hack into our telecom networks.
WCDMA is for the air interface, but yes, they old lots of patents. Even with the TD-SCDMA that China uses Qualcomm still holds patents. Qualcomm may be losing ground but they are still well integrated into the future of mobile network communications.
According to ABI Research , a market research firm, Qualcomm is the leading patent-holder in 4G wireless communications, after recording 24 percent of declarations surrounding LTE, as well as 16 percent of the 26,000 patents that have potential relevance to 4G technologies generally, including WiMAX. Other players in the LTE field include Interdigital (18 percent), Huawei (10 percent), LG (9 percent), Nokia (9 percent) and Samsung (News - Alert) (7 percent). When considering the whole 4G environment Samsung takes second spot with 12 percent of all patent filings, and Nokia comes third with 6 percent.
Although I think it is unlikely that Apple will release a phone that works on both CDMA and GSM, it is nice to dream. Wouldn't it be great to have some choice as a consumer? I'm pretty tired of the carriers running everything when it comes to phone selection. If one model of the iPhone worked on all 4 major carriers in the US, I think we'd see far more plan competition and, possibly lower plan costs and less-restrictive contracts. Apple could do for US consumers' experience in carriers what the original iPhone did for consumers' experience on the handset itself - bust it wide open and force competition.
If carriers had to compete based on service, terms, and price rather than making us choose our personal lesser of 4 evils, I think we'd all be better off. As a consumer handing over piles of money every month, I should be able to ask my carrier, "What have you done for me lately?"
Additionally, if the iPhone worked equally well across carriers, then other handset manufacturers would have to do the same to compete. I'd love to get the phone and carrier that fit my needs best - separately - and be able to keep my phone and switch between carriers when they don't hold up their end of the bargain, when I move, and when my finances dictate. Paying an early termination fee PLUS buying a new phone is enough to keep me complacent and push competition to the every-two-years timeframe.
You only posted a link and quoted text from that link that reinforces both our points. I?m not sure I understand what you are getting at.
You had a question on who owned 4G patent pool. This is a source for estimates. As far as quoting and linking. Some folks like to see the source. I don't think I disagree with your thoughts on Qualcomm and the potential for an Iphone using Qualcomm technology.
You had a question on who owned 4G patent pool. This is a source for estimates. As far as quoting and linking. Some folks like to see the source. I don't think I disagree with your thoughts on Qualcomm and the potential for an Iphone using Qualcomm technology.
Not in the post you quoted, but it?s good to know the percentages. I?ll have to tag that link for the future. Thanks.
Currently, Qualcomm supplies chips to Samsung and LG in Korea, and HTC in Taiwan. But the iPhone, BlackBerry, and Palm Pre do not rely on the company.
Five minutes of google-ing would have show you that this statement is completly false.
Go pick up any Blackberry on Verizon and it will say "Qualcomm 3G CMDA" on the back. Go find one of many "tear down" articles for the Palm Pre and you will see that the baseband processor is a Qualcomm chip.
Just because a phone uses a TI or Samsung ARM proc for its main CPU does not mean it doesn't use Qualcomm chips for the radio.
Do a little research next time so you dont look retarded...
Currently, Qualcomm supplies chips to Samsung and LG in Korea, and HTC in Taiwan. But the iPhone, BlackBerry, and Palm Pre do not rely on the company.
The iPhone currently utilizes an Infineon chipset for its GSM and 3G networking. Palm uses chips from Marvell, while RIM contracts with Freescale.
This makes me question the validity of this article. Both Research in Motion and Palm utilize Qualcomm basebands. The Pre uses a Qualcomm baseband and most Blackberrys including the Storm use Qualcomm as well. Bad info...
This makes me question the validity of this article. Both Research in Motion and Palm utilize Qualcomm basebands. The Pre uses a Qualcomm baseband and most Blackberrys including the Storm use Qualcomm as well. Bad info...
Oops didn't see the comment before mine. Anyways Qualcomm has the vast majority of basebands in key smartphones exluding Apple and Nokia. They're even in most Android phones being released.
Oops didn't see the comment before mine. Anyways Qualcomm has the vast majority of basebands in key smartphones exluding Apple and Nokia. They're even in most Android phones being released.
It’s a double error since 3GSM and LTE both contain many patents held by Qualcomm, so even if the chip doesn’t say Qualcomm on it every cellphone maker still “rely on the company."
Take a look at the links above, there is a great deal of information out there. I will likely buy the 3G iPhone when it comes out, but might wait to see if there are some applications to buy that will fill in the missing pieces first.
Comments
As far as CDMA if Apple plans to offer a phone on Verizon in 2010/2011 it will need a CDMA chip for voice. A voice standard for LTE does not currently exist a proposed technical proposal is available Verizon One Voice Initative but obviously if they are still discussing the standard to expect a finalized standard in 2010 is optimistic.
Verizon is using planning on using CDMA for voice indefinitely at this point. It uses good audio codec, it?s lower power than LTE and it?s well established. I think future voice for LTE will simply be VoIP with QoS. There are other things you can do to make it real time but I think that keeping it IP is the going to be standard for complete LTE networks.
If CDMA is on the way out, then theoretically the CMDA patents will be dropping in value and presumably Qualcomm will lower their licensing fees.
(Now if I just deleted the "if" "theoretically" and "presumably" then I could be a paid industry analyst, too!
Guess what another name for the 3G standard use by the Iphone is? WCDMA and as was said earlier in the thread Qualcomm hold many of the key patents for 3G and 4G so Apple will pay royalties to Qualcomm for whoever's chipset they use.
If CDMA is on the way out, then theoretically the CMDA patents will be dropping in value and presumably Qualcomm will lower their licensing fees.
There are plenty of Qualcomm patents in 3GSM and LTE specs.
As far as royalties rumor said Apple was paying only 1.6% to Qualcomm under the current agreement not 5.5%. That probably because they are using Interdigital & Infineon IP in the Infineon baseband.
That is certainly more reasonable.
Guess what another name for the 3G standard use by the Iphone is? WCDMA and as was said earlier in the thread Qualcomm hold many of the key patents for 3G and 4G so Apple will pay royalties to Qualcomm for whoever's chipset they use.
WCDMA is for the air interface, but yes, they old lots of patents. Even with the TD-SCDMA that China uses Qualcomm still holds patents. Qualcomm may be losing ground but they are still well integrated into the future of mobile network communications.
as it is not currently in field trials
Can someone verify this? Why would it be out of the question? Are field trials assumed to occur in the US and the US only? What about the Australian outback?
Most Verizon customers do not roam into GSM only territory. Even if they do, why would they want to pay the huge roaming fee of $1+/min? Cheaper to get a $30 used GSM phone with cheaper SIM card.
If Apple has done milking ATT, and wants to go with Verizon it is better off doing a CDMA phone only. Buy a CDMA/EVDO chipset from QCOM and negotiate a royalty break from QCOM like everybody else. This way they do not have pay to the UMTS group.
It does not make sense to sell CDMA/UMTS phones all over the world. The chips set would be expensive, bulky, plus would need separate power amps, antennas, etc. Then the combined royalties. That is why we do not see too many of these world phones.
Anyway, LTE may get deployed a lot faster than expected. Huawei, the Chinese upstart is sellng dirt cheap LTE Basestations. This is just part of the cost... then there is fiber network, and routers which Huawei also makes. The devil here is the handset chips and their power consumption and that has not started field trials. I guess the Chinese will get to hack into our telecom networks.
DigiTimes really isn't a credible news source.
I agree with you.
WCDMA is for the air interface, but yes, they old lots of patents. Even with the TD-SCDMA that China uses Qualcomm still holds patents. Qualcomm may be losing ground but they are still well integrated into the future of mobile network communications.
ABI Report
According to ABI Research , a market research firm, Qualcomm is the leading patent-holder in 4G wireless communications, after recording 24 percent of declarations surrounding LTE, as well as 16 percent of the 26,000 patents that have potential relevance to 4G technologies generally, including WiMAX. Other players in the LTE field include Interdigital (18 percent), Huawei (10 percent), LG (9 percent), Nokia (9 percent) and Samsung (News - Alert) (7 percent). When considering the whole 4G environment Samsung takes second spot with 12 percent of all patent filings, and Nokia comes third with 6 percent.
ABI Report
You only posted a link and quoted text from that link that reinforces both our points. I?m not sure I understand what you are getting at.
If carriers had to compete based on service, terms, and price rather than making us choose our personal lesser of 4 evils, I think we'd all be better off. As a consumer handing over piles of money every month, I should be able to ask my carrier, "What have you done for me lately?"
Additionally, if the iPhone worked equally well across carriers, then other handset manufacturers would have to do the same to compete. I'd love to get the phone and carrier that fit my needs best - separately - and be able to keep my phone and switch between carriers when they don't hold up their end of the bargain, when I move, and when my finances dictate. Paying an early termination fee PLUS buying a new phone is enough to keep me complacent and push competition to the every-two-years timeframe.
You only posted a link and quoted text from that link that reinforces both our points. I?m not sure I understand what you are getting at.
You had a question on who owned 4G patent pool. This is a source for estimates. As far as quoting and linking. Some folks like to see the source. I don't think I disagree with your thoughts on Qualcomm and the potential for an Iphone using Qualcomm technology.
You had a question on who owned 4G patent pool. This is a source for estimates. As far as quoting and linking. Some folks like to see the source. I don't think I disagree with your thoughts on Qualcomm and the potential for an Iphone using Qualcomm technology.
Not in the post you quoted, but it?s good to know the percentages. I?ll have to tag that link for the future. Thanks.
Currently, Qualcomm supplies chips to Samsung and LG in Korea, and HTC in Taiwan. But the iPhone, BlackBerry, and Palm Pre do not rely on the company.
Five minutes of google-ing would have show you that this statement is completly false.
Go pick up any Blackberry on Verizon and it will say "Qualcomm 3G CMDA" on the back. Go find one of many "tear down" articles for the Palm Pre and you will see that the baseband processor is a Qualcomm chip.
Just because a phone uses a TI or Samsung ARM proc for its main CPU does not mean it doesn't use Qualcomm chips for the radio.
Do a little research next time so you dont look retarded...
Currently, Qualcomm supplies chips to Samsung and LG in Korea, and HTC in Taiwan. But the iPhone, BlackBerry, and Palm Pre do not rely on the company.
The iPhone currently utilizes an Infineon chipset for its GSM and 3G networking. Palm uses chips from Marvell, while RIM contracts with Freescale.
This makes me question the validity of this article. Both Research in Motion and Palm utilize Qualcomm basebands. The Pre uses a Qualcomm baseband and most Blackberrys including the Storm use Qualcomm as well. Bad info...
This makes me question the validity of this article. Both Research in Motion and Palm utilize Qualcomm basebands. The Pre uses a Qualcomm baseband and most Blackberrys including the Storm use Qualcomm as well. Bad info...
Oops didn't see the comment before mine. Anyways Qualcomm has the vast majority of basebands in key smartphones exluding Apple and Nokia. They're even in most Android phones being released.
Oops didn't see the comment before mine. Anyways Qualcomm has the vast majority of basebands in key smartphones exluding Apple and Nokia. They're even in most Android phones being released.
It’s a double error since 3GSM and LTE both contain many patents held by Qualcomm, so even if the chip doesn’t say Qualcomm on it every cellphone maker still “rely on the company."
Good luck with your decision.