So NOBODY in this thread who thinks this is a good idea has EVER opened up their Mac and added RAM or a hard drive or a PCI card? I could open and close my Mac Pro 20 times a day and such behavior would not void my warranty, nor should it. People will scream - well that's MADE to be that way, and that's the point. If a company wants to make a device service friendly for the end-user they can. A phone could be just as easy to open up to add storage, memory, or modify the cosmetic appearance. I'm not saying that Apple should make the iPhone easy to upgrade, but arguing that the simple act of opening a device should void the warranty seems a bit draconian when other devices (more complex and more expensive) manufactured by the same company invite the user to upgrade. Would everyone feel the same if their hard drive or RAM in their Macs needed to be brought into an Apple store to be upgraded? Its a dual standard, but one that I completely understand, since Apple would make far less money if end users could upgrade memory or RAM on their own rather than having to buy a new iPhone.
And of course, this is just a patent application, so who knows whether it would ever see the light of day.
Resolved: A company should be able to take any step necessary to prevent repair under warranty on warranty breached devices as long as the customer is not limited in normal use of the device and as long as the device is not crippled thereby.
Sure it's YOUR hardware. But Apple is simply stating that their warranty covers normal use of the device. That does not include opening it yourself. In order for Apple to determine whether or not the device has died by normal use; they simply made a seal to determine whether the warranty conditions have been breached. You may open your device but don't expect Apple to cover the damages you possibly could have inflicted. There is no good reason for one to open ones iPhone during the warranty period. This is a good precaution against dishonest customers and for honest customers.
This is like telling people they are not allow open the hood of your car or else you void the warranty
The problem with this is there is a federal case law (do not have it at hand right now) that says the manufacture must show what the consumer did actually caused the failure. Yes they may know you opened up but they does not mean you broke it.
So they can try to say you voided the warranty, but the law prohibit them from doing that but they know you would have to fight them and it will cost you to prove you're not at fault.
So NOBODY in this thread who thinks this is a good idea has EVER opened up their Mac and added RAM or a hard drive or a PCI card? I could open and close my Mac Pro 20 times a day and such behavior would not void my warranty, nor should it. ...
This is totally Apples and Oranges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher
... A phone could be just as easy to open up to add storage, memory, or modify the cosmetic appearance. ...
I don't get how you're smart enough to service your own hardware, but dumb enough to make a statement like this.
In the first place there is nothing to service on a phone, in the second place your hypothetical phone that can have storage added or batteries swapped or whatever would be the size of a hat. In a few years the average phone will be slightly bigger than the current iPod nano and probably a lot thinner. The idea of servicing it like it's an old XT is just silly.
Such labels could be U-shaped or zigzagged, and could be made from paper, plastic, or a metallic foil.
"In the event that the user nevertheless does fully or substantially open the electronic device, then the label tears or otherwise becomes damaged," it reads.
Just how much CONTROL does Apple feel they need to have over items purchased by consumers?
If someone buys a device and then decides to do whatever they choose with said item, it's their business, as well as their assumption of liability should something go awry.
That's EXACTLY the point with this patent. If the customer ruins something, they can't send it back under warranty and get free repairs - the customer assumes the liability. Apple doesn't give a hoot if you open your device - just don't try to get Apple to repair your damage for free.
Exactly. This is a liability reduction measure and should save money for the company.
I'm sure the main focus of this technology will be handheld units like the iPhone and iPod line, but there will be a great temptation in Cupertino to extend it to consumer Macs like the MacBook, Mac mini and iMac.
Actually they already use technology to detect liquid spills on notebooks. Unfortunately the sensors can be tripped by humid climates.
That's why I'm scared that Apple will put sensors in all their hardware making it impossible to do anything but add RAM without violating your warranty.
What's messed up is that RAM is considered a user serviceable part yet the hard drive is not. Ever seen the damage caused by an improperly seated DIMM? Failing to correctly install a hard drive can't do much harm, but Apple has made it so just getting to the hard drive can be a complex and risky activity.
Finally a reduction in warranty claims would help Apple be more profitable, but because they make such a big deal about their gross margins, retail prices will remain the same.
That's EXACTLY the point with this patent. If the customer ruins something, they can't send it back under warranty and get free repairs - the customer assumes the liability. Apple doesn't give a hoot if you open your device - just don't try to get Apple to repair your damage for free.
What they're saying is that once you open it up, even if you don't mess it up, they'll refuse to fix it should something else go wrong in the future.
I don't get how you're smart enough to service your own hardware, but dumb enough to make a statement like this.
Love the personal insults, I'm guessing you don't "get" a lot of things. My argument stands. There's nothing about opening a device like the iPhone that should hypothetically void the manufacturer's warranty and free the manufacturer from the obligation that the parts inside the device are free from defect. If a part in the iPhone is defective, its defective, whether the case has been opened or not. What part of "opening a case" (like users can on other Apple devices), makes it OK for Apple to have sold the owner defective hardware?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
your hypothetical phone that can have storage added or batteries swapped or whatever would be the size of a hat.
A HYPOTHETICAL phone that has an interchangeable battery and can a microSD card? That would be amazing. Oh wait, they've been around for YEARS.
The OP made a perfectly reasonable point in response to the article. WTF is up with you petty drama queens polluting this board with your catty bulls**t? GROW UP
How about a design where it's impossible to open the case without breaking the motherboard in half?
Or maybe Apple would be classier than that. Upon opening, have the device self-destruct in a cool cloud of smoke, spygear-style.
Personally, I still miss the days of the Apple II, with seven open expansion slots just begging to be tinkered with...
The iPhone itself isn't all that difficult to take apart. Two screws on either side of the speaker. There's video's all over youtube on how to replace your battery for a buck or two. I wouldn't bother while it was under warranty though.
Same with the Mac Mini. I thought that one was about on par with pretty much any standard PC, except for the weirdness with the putty knife to get it open
I can see Apples point though. If folks want to crack the case for whatever reason, more power to them but don't expect a free ride for voiding your warranty.
[...] But the new patent application describes actively controlling the iPod media playback solely through the accelerometer, by moving and shaking the device. Users could scroll through songs, flip through the cover flow mode, and select content for playback all through physical motion.
"The physical stimuli can take any form, including an acceleration event, such as a flicking motion," the application reads. "The present invention can utilize an accelerometer to detect and measure the acceleration event, and even determine the direction and magnitude of the acceleration event."
How about making it EASIER for users to open up and service there electronics not harder...
How about designing things so that users can actually service them without inadvertently damaging them...
Seriously this pisses me off. I am more than skilled and capable enough replace a faulty power supply (did it last week in fact) or replace hard drives or memory modules or fans...
Maybe Apple should just encase all there products in carbonite and render them un-servicable by anyone ever....
Man... I'm all for that for sure! Plus while their at it lock down OS X so the hackintosh cheapskate crackers loose too!
Just go to work and earn enough money to buy the things you ENVY he he!
I don't see Apple locking anything down actually (except iPhone, iPod touch etc.) and there are TONS of tutorials to replace the broken screens (most likely the main reason) if it's past warranty. If your competent enough then go for it but if your not and you break it your on your own... it's just like every other product out there... I don't see the big issue here.
umm...when you buy something, it's your hardware, not apple's.
i'm not sure why tech companies bother with this stuff anymore. only technically savvy people even bother opening up their hardware, especially apple users.
The OP made a perfectly reasonable point in response to the article. WTF is up with you petty drama queens polluting this board with your catty bulls**t? GROW UP
No, he didn't, and insulting people just makes YOU look stupid. This isn't about Apple "control" (seriously, people around here have real issues over that), it's about Apple making sure people like the OP don't open up and break their products, then rip off Apple by claiming under the warranty.
Just as you said. "If someone buys a device and then decides to do whatever they choose with said item, it's their business."
Right up to the point you crack said item up and tinker with its insides, you're on your own. It naive and ignorant to assume that ANY manufacturer, Apple or otherwise, should have to clean up their mess for being too curious.
I can't even begin to count how many times I've read and seen over the years about people trying to return purchased items they knowingly broke in some fashion and claim stupidity about how it happened.
In the long run, I think this is better for consumers since companies won't have to spend so much money on replacing / fixing items that frankly, should never have been done under "warranty". Less cost for them will hopefully trickle down to us in cheaper prices.
The only thing I could see with this is the "sensor" become damaged during the initial assembly phase and leaving the facility that way. The consumer has no way of knowing that their shiny new toy technically would be considered void the moment they open the packaging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newrigel
MacGyver has spoken!
If they are stupid enough to shell out the money to break it fine... just don't come crying to Apple to fix it. I don't see what getting inside of the device and messing around with it unless your trying to change a battery or something.
Like little kids... got to break stuff open to see what's inside he he... .
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog
seriously...you answered your own post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
No, he didn't, and insulting people just makes YOU look stupid. This isn't about Apple "control" (seriously, people around here have real issues over that), it's about Apple making sure people like the OP don't open up and break their products, then rip off Apple by claiming under the warranty.
First of all, I never stated wether I agreed with the OP, did I? Apple needs to be careful when it comes to their perceived "control" over their products. We already know that they have a fairly well established reputation OUTSIDE these Apple boards as a company that likes to keep a tight reign on how customers can and cannot use their products. I personally don't have a problem with the 'tamper resistant" label, but it does seem highlight the fact that Apple doesn't want their customers tampering with their products for any reason, let alone protection from false claims of malfunction. Now, as for insulting people; did take the time to read those responses that my original comments were directed to?? Were those sentiments at all reasonable to you? I simply called those people out for being the churlish vultures that they are and I will continue to do so as I see fit. You included
I take it you didn't read any of the comments above? They aren't mailing harder unless you want to go back to cell phones from the 80's (corded handset anyone? due to minituration.
They only want to know when you open them and void your warranty. Really, why would you open them before your warranty was out? They will replace the thing for free for any defects.
But they are talking about using glue more extensively and possibly other methods to make it more difficult. What happens when my warranty does run out and I want to replace something? I run a large risk of damaging the device trying to get it open or not being able to re-assemble once it is open. Now I am forced to let Apple fix it (for a fee). I have no intentions of ever opening anything still under warranty but once said warranty is up I will and this seems to me a way for Apple to make this near impossible to do and force me to pay them.
Comments
And of course, this is just a patent application, so who knows whether it would ever see the light of day.
Sure it's YOUR hardware. But Apple is simply stating that their warranty covers normal use of the device. That does not include opening it yourself. In order for Apple to determine whether or not the device has died by normal use; they simply made a seal to determine whether the warranty conditions have been breached. You may open your device but don't expect Apple to cover the damages you possibly could have inflicted. There is no good reason for one to open ones iPhone during the warranty period. This is a good precaution against dishonest customers and for honest customers.
But I'l be damned if I can't change my own RAM without voiding the warranty!
The problem with this is there is a federal case law (do not have it at hand right now) that says the manufacture must show what the consumer did actually caused the failure. Yes they may know you opened up but they does not mean you broke it.
So they can try to say you voided the warranty, but the law prohibit them from doing that but they know you would have to fight them and it will cost you to prove you're not at fault.
So NOBODY in this thread who thinks this is a good idea has EVER opened up their Mac and added RAM or a hard drive or a PCI card? I could open and close my Mac Pro 20 times a day and such behavior would not void my warranty, nor should it. ...
This is totally Apples and Oranges.
... A phone could be just as easy to open up to add storage, memory, or modify the cosmetic appearance. ...
I don't get how you're smart enough to service your own hardware, but dumb enough to make a statement like this.
In the first place there is nothing to service on a phone, in the second place your hypothetical phone that can have storage added or batteries swapped or whatever would be the size of a hat. In a few years the average phone will be slightly bigger than the current iPod nano and probably a lot thinner. The idea of servicing it like it's an old XT is just silly.
Such labels could be U-shaped or zigzagged, and could be made from paper, plastic, or a metallic foil.
"In the event that the user nevertheless does fully or substantially open the electronic device, then the label tears or otherwise becomes damaged," it reads.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Does Apple think they can patent glueing paper to a device? The patent office is really brain dead if they approve it.
Seriously...
Just how much CONTROL does Apple feel they need to have over items purchased by consumers?
If someone buys a device and then decides to do whatever they choose with said item, it's their business, as well as their assumption of liability should something go awry.
That's EXACTLY the point with this patent. If the customer ruins something, they can't send it back under warranty and get free repairs - the customer assumes the liability. Apple doesn't give a hoot if you open your device - just don't try to get Apple to repair your damage for free.
Exactly. This is a liability reduction measure and should save money for the company.
I'm sure the main focus of this technology will be handheld units like the iPhone and iPod line, but there will be a great temptation in Cupertino to extend it to consumer Macs like the MacBook, Mac mini and iMac.
Actually they already use technology to detect liquid spills on notebooks. Unfortunately the sensors can be tripped by humid climates.
That's why I'm scared that Apple will put sensors in all their hardware making it impossible to do anything but add RAM without violating your warranty.
What's messed up is that RAM is considered a user serviceable part yet the hard drive is not. Ever seen the damage caused by an improperly seated DIMM? Failing to correctly install a hard drive can't do much harm, but Apple has made it so just getting to the hard drive can be a complex and risky activity.
Finally a reduction in warranty claims would help Apple be more profitable, but because they make such a big deal about their gross margins, retail prices will remain the same.
That's EXACTLY the point with this patent. If the customer ruins something, they can't send it back under warranty and get free repairs - the customer assumes the liability. Apple doesn't give a hoot if you open your device - just don't try to get Apple to repair your damage for free.
What they're saying is that once you open it up, even if you don't mess it up, they'll refuse to fix it should something else go wrong in the future.
This is totally Apples and Oranges.
I don't get how you're smart enough to service your own hardware, but dumb enough to make a statement like this.
Love the personal insults, I'm guessing you don't "get" a lot of things. My argument stands. There's nothing about opening a device like the iPhone that should hypothetically void the manufacturer's warranty and free the manufacturer from the obligation that the parts inside the device are free from defect. If a part in the iPhone is defective, its defective, whether the case has been opened or not. What part of "opening a case" (like users can on other Apple devices), makes it OK for Apple to have sold the owner defective hardware?
your hypothetical phone that can have storage added or batteries swapped or whatever would be the size of a hat.
A HYPOTHETICAL
The OP made a perfectly reasonable point in response to the article. WTF is up with you petty drama queens polluting this board with your catty bulls**t? GROW UP
Amen to that!!!
If Apple really wants to be anal about it, they could even design the circuit to disable the device if an intrusion is detected.
How about a design where it's impossible to open the case without breaking the motherboard in half?
Or maybe Apple would be classier than that. Upon opening, have the device self-destruct in a cool cloud of smoke, spygear-style.
Personally, I still miss the days of the Apple II, with seven open expansion slots just begging to be tinkered with...
How about a design where it's impossible to open the case without breaking the motherboard in half?
Or maybe Apple would be classier than that. Upon opening, have the device self-destruct in a cool cloud of smoke, spygear-style.
Personally, I still miss the days of the Apple II, with seven open expansion slots just begging to be tinkered with...
The iPhone itself isn't all that difficult to take apart. Two screws on either side of the speaker. There's video's all over youtube on how to replace your battery for a buck or two. I wouldn't bother while it was under warranty though.
Same with the Mac Mini. I thought that one was about on par with pretty much any standard PC, except for the weirdness with the putty knife to get it open
I can see Apples point though. If folks want to crack the case for whatever reason, more power to them but don't expect a free ride for voiding your warranty.
[...] But the new patent application describes actively controlling the iPod media playback solely through the accelerometer, by moving and shaking the device. Users could scroll through songs, flip through the cover flow mode, and select content for playback all through physical motion.
"The physical stimuli can take any form, including an acceleration event, such as a flicking motion," the application reads. "The present invention can utilize an accelerometer to detect and measure the acceleration event, and even determine the direction and magnitude of the acceleration event."
so, they can change the iPod's name to iYoYo.
Hey I have a novel idea...
How about making it EASIER for users to open up and service there electronics not harder...
How about designing things so that users can actually service them without inadvertently damaging them...
Seriously this pisses me off. I am more than skilled and capable enough replace a faulty power supply (did it last week in fact) or replace hard drives or memory modules or fans...
Maybe Apple should just encase all there products in carbonite and render them un-servicable by anyone ever....
Man... I'm all for that for sure! Plus while their at it lock down OS X so the hackintosh cheapskate crackers loose too!
Just go to work and earn enough money to buy the things you ENVY he he!
I don't see Apple locking anything down actually (except iPhone, iPod touch etc.) and there are TONS of tutorials to replace the broken screens (most likely the main reason) if it's past warranty. If your competent enough then go for it but if your not and you break it your on your own... it's just like every other product out there... I don't see the big issue here.
umm...when you buy something, it's your hardware, not apple's.
i'm not sure why tech companies bother with this stuff anymore. only technically savvy people even bother opening up their hardware, especially apple users.
Or reverse engineers!
The OP made a perfectly reasonable point in response to the article. WTF is up with you petty drama queens polluting this board with your catty bulls**t? GROW UP
No, he didn't, and insulting people just makes YOU look stupid. This isn't about Apple "control" (seriously, people around here have real issues over that), it's about Apple making sure people like the OP don't open up and break their products, then rip off Apple by claiming under the warranty.
seriously... YOU get over it...
Just as you said. "If someone buys a device and then decides to do whatever they choose with said item, it's their business."
Right up to the point you crack said item up and tinker with its insides, you're on your own. It naive and ignorant to assume that ANY manufacturer, Apple or otherwise, should have to clean up their mess for being too curious.
I can't even begin to count how many times I've read and seen over the years about people trying to return purchased items they knowingly broke in some fashion and claim stupidity about how it happened.
In the long run, I think this is better for consumers since companies won't have to spend so much money on replacing / fixing items that frankly, should never have been done under "warranty". Less cost for them will hopefully trickle down to us in cheaper prices.
The only thing I could see with this is the "sensor" become damaged during the initial assembly phase and leaving the facility that way. The consumer has no way of knowing that their shiny new toy technically would be considered void the moment they open the packaging.
MacGyver has spoken!
If they are stupid enough to shell out the money to break it fine... just don't come crying to Apple to fix it. I don't see what getting inside of the device and messing around with it unless your trying to change a battery or something.
Like little kids... got to break stuff open to see what's inside he he...
seriously...you answered your own post.
No, he didn't, and insulting people just makes YOU look stupid. This isn't about Apple "control" (seriously, people around here have real issues over that), it's about Apple making sure people like the OP don't open up and break their products, then rip off Apple by claiming under the warranty.
First of all, I never stated wether I agreed with the OP, did I? Apple needs to be careful when it comes to their perceived "control" over their products. We already know that they have a fairly well established reputation OUTSIDE these Apple boards as a company that likes to keep a tight reign on how customers can and cannot use their products. I personally don't have a problem with the 'tamper resistant" label, but it does seem highlight the fact that Apple doesn't want their customers tampering with their products for any reason, let alone protection from false claims of malfunction. Now, as for insulting people; did take the time to read those responses that my original comments were directed to?? Were those sentiments at all reasonable to you? I simply called those people out for being the churlish vultures that they are and I will continue to do so as I see fit. You included
I take it you didn't read any of the comments above? They aren't mailing harder unless you want to go back to cell phones from the 80's (corded handset anyone?
They only want to know when you open them and void your warranty. Really, why would you open them before your warranty was out? They will replace the thing for free for any defects.
But they are talking about using glue more extensively and possibly other methods to make it more difficult. What happens when my warranty does run out and I want to replace something? I run a large risk of damaging the device trying to get it open or not being able to re-assemble once it is open. Now I am forced to let Apple fix it (for a fee). I have no intentions of ever opening anything still under warranty but once said warranty is up I will and this seems to me a way for Apple to make this near impossible to do and force me to pay them.