Apple's 'Worldwide Loyalty Team' ensures secrets stay secret

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  • Reply 21 of 40
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post


    I thought it was a load of tripe. Apple is consistently at the top of the charts for customer support, and quality. They are reaping huge profits in a depression.



    From my perspective, if I own Apple stock, I'd say they were doing it right, contrary to that huge post (I refuse to quote an entire page of text).





    depends what kind of support. reading macrumors i would want to buy a mac for home because if it breaks i'm confident about the apple warranty and service at the store. someone even said they replaced a Mac 10 times due to dead pixels.



    for corporate use you have to work with customers and open up the OS internals to them when they have a problem. Microsoft has connect.microsoft.com for bug reporting and they will work with you in identifying bugs in the software and passing it on to development for fixing. MS also works with big customers like the US government and fortune 500 companies to find out what features they want and add them to their desktop and server products.



    and MS employees are encouraged to blog and be active in forums to help others out with the software. i've had more than one problem solved by asking in the forums or searching the MSDN blogs



    Apple on the other hand refuses to acknowledge problems and will fix a lot of issues without any documentation
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  • Reply 22 of 40
    One of the key issues for many people who complain about controls around their workplace is the fact that information is power. There are few people who, when at work will not stop to hear some juicy insider gossip when available. Likewise, its hard not to try and impress friends and acquaintances with insider knowledge, especially working for a company like Apple, for example. Companies often have a well defined interest in controlling information to protect themselves from predation by competition and from government regulatory scrutiny, among other things. In the fast paced and agressive world of technology development, one slip can cost you the game, literally. Look at all the diggin being done now around trying to ferret out what Apple is going to do next. People are reviewing network logs to see if new tech is out and about in California - knowing that the Apple executives usually have prototypes in hand. Anyone who claims that a completely open and transparent approach to information control should be the rule is sadly misguided, and displaying a fundamental lack of understanding of how things work in competitive industries.



    The bottom line for many companies, and I know this first hand, is that field sales people as referenced in MobileMe's excerpt, for example, are unfortunately viewed as information liabilities. Some field sales people will compromise company confidentiality in order to seal a deal, or gain some leverage with the customer. Again, first hand experience, and this is not condemnation or accusations directed at all field sales people, but those few who poison the position for everyone else. The fact remains that all corporate security measures can be and often are necessary evils. MobileMe's account is in fact mild compared to sensitive government positions, companies that have proprietary holding that they are protecting, financial companies you name it.



    The point being, go into these operations understanding what the reality is and if you cannot accept the restrictions go somewhere else.
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  • Reply 23 of 40
    djrumpydjrumpy Posts: 1,116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    depends what kind of support. reading macrumors i would want to buy a mac for home because if it breaks i'm confident about the apple warranty and service at the store. someone even said they replaced a Mac 10 times due to dead pixels.



    for corporate use you have to work with customers and open up the OS internals to them when they have a problem. Microsoft has connect.microsoft.com for bug reporting and they will work with you in identifying bugs in the software and passing it on to development for fixing. MS also works with big customers like the US government and fortune 500 companies to find out what features they want and add them to their desktop and server products.



    and MS employees are encouraged to blog and be active in forums to help others out with the software. i've had more than one problem solved by asking in the forums or searching the MSDN blogs



    Apple on the other hand refuses to acknowledge problems and will fix a lot of issues without any documentation



    I'm not sure I buy that. For instance, the upgrade to 10.6 broken USB audio when running Windows in a virtual machine. Apparently Apple admitted to the problem to VMWare, yet never published any information on it. If one of the vmware folks hadn't let slip in the thread, we still wouldn't know who actually owned the problem. I suspect they do work with vendors, they just don't publicize or they require NDA's for issues, neither of which is an unusual practice. By extension I would think the relationship with businesses wouldn't be that different, but I'm guessing here. We've only just started opening up our environment to iPhones and I don't have a lot of experience working with them directly.



    IMO, the only things holding Apple back from penetration into the business market are status quo and application compatibility. It's a big investment for a company to move to even a new vendor, let alone an entirely new OS. I don't think the battle will be won by switchers. I think it will be won with new businesses and only a small segment of switchers in the mix.
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  • Reply 24 of 40
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    in the last 2 years i've had 2 cases with Microsoft SQL server support where they said we found a bug, they refunded our $245 fee and the fix came out a few months later in a hotfix. if you register at connect.microsoft.com you can report bugs as well and it will go straight to development. there is a SQL Customer Advisory team with a blog and they answer questions and give tips.



    point is that Microsoft came a long way from the days when SP5 for NT4 broke Lotus Notes and other apps and no one knew why. they are also a long way from the days of hiding security issues. they now work with the researchers to fix bugs as they are reported



    big customers want details why there is an issue. they don't want to read it on a forum from someone posting secretly



    Symantec/Veritas is another example. i'm always getting bug alerts saying how a certain version of netbackup won't backup your data in some situations or when used with other products. in some cases i get an alert about an upcoming patch that hasn't been released yet.
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  • Reply 25 of 40
    Apple leakers should be hunted down and given the steel-toed boot to the head. Whistle blowers would be a different matter altogether, but leakers are simply traitors.
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  • Reply 26 of 40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    i thought you worked for finland



    Point to one post where I said I work for FInland. Living in a particular country does not necessarily denote working for that particular country. From the same inference, I could come to the conclusion that you work for the planet Neptune.



    You had to realize this. Seriously. Anyway, I do not work for "Finland".
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  • Reply 27 of 40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MobileMe View Post


    I can remember one particular system engineer who has been with Apple almost from the beginning. He practically begged me to get him a boxed set of Final Cut Pro complete with documentation so he could demonstrate it to customers. In following what has to be the most counterproductive set of guidelines around, that request for one copy of Final Cut Pro which had an internal cost of almost nothing had to go all the way up to Phil Schiller for approval. Even funnier almost all requests like that were turned down.



    That may be true for system engineers, but those who need access to (almost any) OSX software, internally, have it. On very fast pipes, too.
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  • Reply 28 of 40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    I work for the gov't. We get poly'd, and piss tested. This story, while scary to the outsider, is not even close to how it is in the real world.



    Agreed, people forget that they have to sign little non-disclosure agreements when they agree to begin employment with a company like Apple. Apple has every right to protect their intellectual property. In this day & age they have to get a little 007 to keep the secrets safe.



    If you don't like the policies of the company you work for then find another job. If the policies are illegal or evil then report it to HR. If HR is corrupt & evil report it to the government, but for crying out loud don't try to explain yourself to me when your first reaction is to go whining to the press!
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  • Reply 29 of 40
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    but then they can't feel cool and like james bond if they can't leak product details to blogs and websites
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  • Reply 30 of 40
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    Point to one post where I said I work for FInland. Living in a particular country does not necessarily denote working for that particular country. From the same inference, I could come to the conclusion that you work for the planet Neptune.



    You had to realize this. Seriously. Anyway, I do not work for "Finland".



    i wonder why you are so defensive about FINLAND . Its ok for now . we will ignore finland and say you work for sweden and maybe ikea moved to finland and nokia moved to sweden

    overnight ,

    ok

    happy now

    here i give you a smiley apple face to show our friendship



    no one is from neptune

    that is so silly i am from europa



    g nite and don't let the bed bugs bite



    peace 9
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  • Reply 31 of 40
    djrumpydjrumpy Posts: 1,116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    i wonder why you are so defensive about FINLAND . Its ok for now . we will ignore finland and say you work for sweden and maybe ikea moved to finland and nokia moved to sweden

    overnight ,

    ok

    happy now

    here i give you a smiley apple face to show our friendship



    no one is from neptune

    that is so silly i am from europa



    g nite and don't let the bed bugs bite



    peace 9



    Is anyone else completely lost as to what this sub-thread is about, or is it just me?
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  • Reply 32 of 40
    bertpbertp Posts: 274member
    I think this is a fluff of a story. If you work or have worked for a technology company, and you are in product development, you are expected to keep mum about that product. Why? Because your company is usually competing with a rival technology firm.



    That is not to say that management can't go overboard. I recall a situation where one employee was dating an employee at a rival firm, and was inappropriately investigated by the employer. The employee sued, and the employee's company had to pay court-ordered damages.



    I would be more concerned about being snooped on, without probable cause, by private firms or the government with regard to my non-work activities as a private citizen. For example, retail outlets that insist you use their card so that they can do targeted ads based upon your purchasing history at that outlet. Or governmental snooping without judicial oversight.



    I can't understand why some people believe, that because Microsoft does public betas for Windows, Apple should do the same with the Mac OS. Come on?Windows needs extensive beta testing because of the varied hardware platforms it runs on, and that's how Microsoft deals with that situation. Apple has tightly integrated their hardware with their software, so they can reasonably choose to do non-public betas. On occasion, Apple will do a public beta ? Safari 4 is an example.
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  • Reply 33 of 40
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post


    Is anyone else completely lost as to what this sub-thread is about, or is it just me?



    agreed i am just as confused

    certain people my friend come here and make fantastic agitating posts for no other reason than to start shit up

    so this dude above me comes here on a nokia topic and acts like he's the king of finland and nokia phones are soooo great and iphones and apple suck sooo much ..



    yet we now see he cannot even speak finnish or know the lap dog mating ritual .



    my mission /our mission is too turn him away from the dark side and become a good citizen here at AI



    HE does seem kinda cool ......





    peace



    9
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  • Reply 34 of 40
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BertP View Post


    I think this is a fluff of a story. If you work or have worked for a technology company, and you are in product development, you are expected to keep mum about that product. Why? Because your company is usually competing with a rival technology firm.



    That is not to say that management can't go overboard. I recall a situation where one employee was dating an employee at a rival firm, and was inappropriately investigated by the employer. The employee sued, and the employee's company had to pay court-ordered damages.



    I would be more concerned about being snooped on, without probable cause, by private firms or the government with regard to my non-work activities as a private citizen. For example, retail outlets that insist you use their card so that they can do targeted ads based upon your purchasing history at that outlet. Or governmental snooping without judicial oversight.



    I can't understand why some people believe, that because Microsoft does public betas for Windows, Apple should do the same with the Mac OS. Come on?Windows needs extensive beta testing because of the varied hardware platforms it runs on, and that's how Microsoft deals with that situation. Apple has tightly integrated their hardware with their software, so they can reasonably choose to do non-public betas. On occasion, Apple will do a public beta ? Safari 4 is an example.



    how true

    how true



    apple like all concerns need to keep a long lead time for fresh new innovative products to have a market to themselves.

    this allows apple to better define products /suppler's/ supplies and such.



    some companies leak far ahead of time all there secrets in hope of stopping people from buying a device UNTIL their secret future device is finally made .. YET we all know they NEVER DELIVER on the hype //



    APPLE creates hype by silence. APPLE has fired or got fired hundred upon hundreds of big mouth's.



    APPLE made a simple rule ?? no ?? quiet .. whisper... never reveal or comment even on wrong predictions

    NEVER

    YES this is a fluff story A I needs way more eye balls .



    peace





    9
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  • Reply 35 of 40
    This story explains the reactions I get when I wear and give to Apple employees (for exceptional service) the "I've been to the Mother Ship" black T-shirts from Cupertino.



    I don't know why they would dream to move and work in smoggy, crowded and hot southern California, but it gets my computers fixed real fast.





    Sure I've been to Cupertino, but I'm no spy.



    Unless they don't give me what I want of course...





    After all, all those dome cameras you see in the ceiling, that's for behavioral monitoring, not just for security. Most people don't know that, so the moles are used to initiate a reaction. And the moles are monitored by the cameras, so they do what they are supposed to do, not just saying they did.





    Yes Apple Stores are monitored like casinos, that explains the sheep fondling the nearly ineffective glossy screens. People are attracted to shiny objects.
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  • Reply 36 of 40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    agreed i am just as confused

    certain people my friend come here and make fantastic agitating posts for no other reason than to start shit up

    so this dude above me comes here on a nokia topic and acts like he's the king of finland and nokia phones are soooo great and iphones and apple suck sooo much ..



    yet we now see he cannot even speak finnish or know the lap dog mating ritual .



    my mission /our mission is too turn him away from the dark side and become a good citizen here at AI



    HE does seem kinda cool ......





    peace



    9



    Normally I would ignore you because you have not said one thing that makes sense, but now it seems as though you are not even trying. You would rather speculate than deal with facts so here goes.



    1. I never said that Nokia is so great and Apple is shit. This is part of your delusional imagination. Please back up your delusion with a fact, i.e. post where I said such.

    2. The only shit that I started was when I asked a question about who needed who's technology more. JeffDM responded and I issued an apology to him in this regard. You need to know more about what you are talking before you point a finger at someone.

    3. I never said I was the king of FInland. Do you have a problem by making assumptions that just because someone lives in one country that a) they are from that country, b) king of that country, c) loyal to the phone manufacturer of that country? It seems so as you made this leap all in one post. Again, I invite you to provide proof.

    4. What does my speaking Finnish have to do with anything? I never said I do speak Finnish. Again, another ill-informed assumption on your part. So far you are Zero for a lot in regards to what you think I know or what I don't know, where I am from, what I do, etc...

    5. You want to switch me away from which particular dark side? Again, another assumption.



    While I do not see you as rabid as most on this site you are way off base.



    Forgot to add the face.
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  • Reply 37 of 40
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post






    Best post in thread.
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  • Reply 38 of 40
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BertP View Post


    I think this is a fluff of a story. If you work or have worked for a technology company, and you are in product development, you are expected to keep mum about that product. Why? Because your company is usually competing with a rival technology firm.



    That is not to say that management can't go overboard. I recall a situation where one employee was dating an employee at a rival firm, and was inappropriately investigated by the employer. The employee sued, and the employee's company had to pay court-ordered damages.



    I would be more concerned about being snooped on, without probable cause, by private firms or the government with regard to my non-work activities as a private citizen. For example, retail outlets that insist you use their card so that they can do targeted ads based upon your purchasing history at that outlet. Or governmental snooping without judicial oversight.



    I can't understand why some people believe, that because Microsoft does public betas for Windows, Apple should do the same with the Mac OS. Come on?Windows needs extensive beta testing because of the varied hardware platforms it runs on, and that's how Microsoft deals with that situation. Apple has tightly integrated their hardware with their software, so they can reasonably choose to do non-public betas. On occasion, Apple will do a public beta ? Safari 4 is an example.



    if you haven't noticed there have been some problems in shipping products in the last year that should have been caught in QA. and the whole varied hardware thing about Windows is from 10 years ago. there are a few hardware makers left and the way apple changes hardware every generation they have the same issues as Microsoft. look at all the intel macs ever made and they all have different hardware
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  • Reply 39 of 40
    bertpbertp Posts: 274member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    if you haven't noticed there have been some problems in shipping products in the last year that should have been caught in QA. and the whole varied hardware thing about Windows is from 10 years ago. there are a few hardware makers left and the way apple changes hardware every generation they have the same issues as Microsoft. look at all the intel macs ever made and they all have different hardware



    I have noticed. The Apple eco-system is growing more complex. Witness the MobileMe fiasco. The problems with SL drivers after some low-level changes and re-factorings to Mac X OS 10.6. But, I don't see the equivalence of Apple's QA situation to MS's QA situation.



    Microsoft does the OS, and the PC box assemblers provide the drivers for their particular combination of components. But the QA is spread across independent organizations. IMO, MS must, by necessity, do public betas of their OS. (I'll ignore the legacy support that MS provides for IT). I give MS credit for their herculean task of getting to where Windows 7 now is. I won't say any more, because I'm not a Windows user.



    Apple still has more control over it's eco-system than MS does due to tight hw/sw integration under a single management. And they do continuous improvement in the form of a steady stream of point releases, which customers can incorporate via Apple's updating scheme.



    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continu...vement_Process



    MS does service packs further apart. I prefer the continuous improvement approach as practiced by Apple and others (Toyota, etc.).



    Quite a few years back, I saw a guy (PhD. in Mathematics) scribbling on a whiteboard mathematical expressions that were incomprehensible to me. "What are you doing?", I said. He responded, "I'm pursuing the Holy Grail ? working out the technique to mathematically prove the correctness of computer programs. No one has ever been able to do it!" Let me know if progress has been made in that direction. I know that the ADC has a 'static analyzer' of computer programs. It's a new part of QA at Apple, I would think.
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  • Reply 40 of 40
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    normally i would ignore you because you have not said one thing that makes sense, but now it seems as though you are not even trying. You would rather speculate than deal with facts so here goes.



    1. I never said that nokia is so great and apple is shit. This is part of your delusional imagination. Please back up your delusion with a fact, i.e. Post where i said such.

    Dude an another topic you went off about nokia trhis or that

    2. The only shit that i started was when i asked a question about who needed who's technology more. Jeffdm responded and i issued an apology to him in this regard. You need to know more about what you are talking before you point a finger at someone. Iread all this >>infact you was correct in that nokia holds all the patents except what patents qualcomm /jd uni phase own !!why would have to apologize to any one ?? Maybe yopiur posting style is a bit aggressive ??

    3. I never said i was the king of finland. Do you have a problem by making assumptions that just because someone lives in one country that a) they are from that country, b) king of that country, c) loyal to the phone manufacturer of that country? It seems so as you made this leap all in one post. Again, i invite you to provide proof.

    :l



    4. What does my speaking finnish have to do with anything? I never said i do speak finnish. Again, another ill-informed assumption on your part. So far you are zero for a lot in regards to what you think i know or what i don't know, where i am from, what i do, etc..



    5. You want to switch me away from which particular dark side? Again, another assumption. Use the force luke !!!:



    While i do not see you as rabid as most on this site you are way off base.



    l .







    1111I WAS JOKING DUDE ..TRYING TO COOL YOU DOWN



    2222in fact you was correct in that nokia holds all the patents except what patents qualcomm /jd uni phase own !!why would have to apologize to any one ?? Maybe your posting style is a bit aggressive ?? LOOK MY STYLE IS NOT SO GREAT EITHER



    3333 . Dude the whole charade i did on you was a friendly type of welcome to ai forum >>welcome

    have a great time here but please cool your jets .

    PLease tone down of your posts .





    44444 You misunderstand who we are here and mis understand some of us who deeply love all that is apple . Dude we still will fault apple when they are wrong !!! Sadly they are never wrong !!





    5555 Did you ever watch star wars ??





    666 THERE IS NO SIX









    HEY PEACE DUDE AND MERRY X-MAS











    Lostplay





    9
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