Intel Atom's are JUNK! Plain and simple, JUNK. Amd's NEO is 2x's better for many reasons. Yea it has a higher TDP of 11watts but it powers through things in seconds that take atom way too long. Compare the L110 to the N280. I can see why Apple dumped atom support (suedo) in OS X. Sad though as OS X ran really brisk on the atom but that's more of a credit to the OS developers at Apple and BSD than the CPU...
...You know the problem with the Atom? The AMD Lx10 series.
Until this thread, do you realise I haven't even heard about the AMD Neo? And I've been following PC (not just Mac) news for the past few months quite intently, on CPUs, GPUs, Anandtech, Tom's, Fudzilla.
I got to check out this Neo thing, but sounds like AMD has some big time marketing and branding issues, Intel is really "shock and awe" slamming the media with their Atom marketing arsenal.
There's a lot of reasons you don't transition to 32nm this quickly, but the best reason is price. Intel sells these things for a couple bucks profit. They spent billions on their 32nm process, and have limited fabrication lines capable of producing 32nm chips. Each new fab can cost billions to bring online, so if they're going to produce a chip on it, that chips has to be damn profitable to recoup the physical facilities investment and R&D investment that went into making the fab. Quite simply, Intel can make more money selling Core 2 based chips on their 32 nm process than they can the Atom.
Fair enough. BTW, as I understand Intel's main target for making money off their 32nm is not Core 2 at 32nm but Arrandale and Clarkdale... Which will be the bulk of their 32nm chips in the 1st half of 2010. That and the sexy high-end, high-profit-margin Gulftown sixcore. 12 threads. Dual socket and you've got 12 cores, 24 threads. Pretty mindblowing, though apps optimised for 24 threads are few and far between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79
You're assuming Apple will target the same space. They won't. I don't see Apple trying to compete in the sub-$300 space since that would kill sales of the iPhone, iPod and iPod touch all at once. But a $400 netbook is passe; you can get a $400 laptop nowadays. The sole reason netbooks are selling so well is because of price. I know a lot of college students who got netbooks for Christmas last year because it was a cheap wow gift that is actually useful to that segment, even if they already had a laptop. An Apple tablet on the other hand would never fit in to the cheap category, and therefore won't have the volume. People won't want to copy Apple's rumored touch tablet if they can't get the volume.
Actually, I was saying the reverse. Not that Apple will copy netbooks, but that Apple could develop a tablet, and then everyone else is going to try and copy that. I agree that sales of iPhone and iPod touch should not be cannibalised. That leaves the $400 to $700 window of opportunity for an Apple tablet. Remember, it's Apple, so it should be something pretty stunning that people are willing to pay for that and enjoy it instead of a netbook or laptop at similar or lower prices. Now, once Apple makes it, then a whole bunch of other brands are going to try and jump in with their own multi-touch tablets (sometimes even if they don't get volume, they just like copying Apple -- see various smartphones), probably based on Atom. The trick is that the tablet is unlikely to be a full Mac OS X running on Intel but perhaps iPhone OS on steroids with ARM ~ meaning juicy profit margins for Apple to feast on in 2010... coupled with 3G on the tablet and deals with telcos, tablet App Store, etc.
Until this thread, do you realise I haven't even heard about the AMD Neo? And I've been following PC (not just Mac) news for the past few months quite intently, on CPUs, GPUs, Anandtech, Tom's, Fudzilla.
I got to check out this Neo thing, but sounds like AMD has some big time marketing and branding issues, Intel is really "shock and awe" slamming the media with their Atom marketing arsenal.
Search around for AMD L330. It's still K8 based but the K10's are coming in 2010 on 45 or 32nm. Fusion will show up soon (hopefully) and have an integrated HD GPU. The Neo's are usually paired with the 7xx series chipset which is stellar! In typical AMD fashion overclocking is a breeze and stable to a point. Underclocking is even better. Can run the L110 at .7v and not drop core speed. Powernow is deactivated it seems but on a 5200mah battery, ATI X1270 with 384mb, LED 11.6" I can get 5hrs on the OEM HD, 6hrs on the Hitachi Eco-Drive... Haven't played with the SSD yet, need more space at this time.
I like mine. My MacBook is too heavy and klunky nowadays compared to my netbook. I can take it anyware and use it for my email/Web browsing machine, which my MacBook previously did..
I like mine. My MacBook is too heavy and klunky nowadays compared to my netbook. I can take it anyware and use it for my email/Web browsing machine, which my MacBook previously did. I had to use virtualization to run Office on my MacBook, since our company requires the latest Office, but VMWare brought my Mac to its knees. Office on the netbook ain't great but it's faster than my MacBook was and it cost $700 less than a new MacBook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov
I got one, it is called iPhone
Yeah, between the iPhone 3GS and my MacBook 13" Aluminium I'm covered. Skittlebrau, do you have a 7200rpm drive and 4GB of RAM? That usually does fine in VMWare Fusion... Along with a 2ghz Core 2 Duo.
I do understand though, some people will still like and need a netbook... That market may evolve, but will still be around over the next few years. Like I said though, I'm waiting for the real innovation to take us away from the [physical keyboard-screen-foldable] paradigm.
Search around for AMD L330. It's still K8 based but the K10's are coming in 2010 on 45 or 32nm. Fusion will show up soon (hopefully) and have an integrated HD GPU. The Neo's are usually paired with the 7xx series chipset which is stellar! In typical AMD fashion overclocking is a breeze and stable to a point. Underclocking is even better. Can run the L110 at .7v and not drop core speed. Powernow is deactivated it seems but on a 5200mah battery, ATI X1270 with 384mb, LED 11.6" I can get 5hrs on the OEM HD, 6hrs on the Hitachi Eco-Drive... Haven't played with the SSD yet, need more space at this time.
Cool. I'll do some research. Christmas is just a few days away.
Edit: What brand is your netbook? I see mainly MSI and HP netbooks...
Comments
Intel Atom's are JUNK! Plain and simple, JUNK. Amd's NEO is 2x's better for many reasons. Yea it has a higher TDP of 11watts but it powers through things in seconds that take atom way too long. Compare the L110 to the N280. I can see why Apple dumped atom support (suedo) in OS X. Sad though as OS X ran really brisk on the atom but that's more of a credit to the OS developers at Apple and BSD than the CPU...
...You know the problem with the Atom? The AMD Lx10 series.
Until this thread, do you realise I haven't even heard about the AMD Neo? And I've been following PC (not just Mac) news for the past few months quite intently, on CPUs, GPUs, Anandtech, Tom's, Fudzilla.
I got to check out this Neo thing, but sounds like AMD has some big time marketing and branding issues, Intel is really "shock and awe" slamming the media with their Atom marketing arsenal.
There's a lot of reasons you don't transition to 32nm this quickly, but the best reason is price. Intel sells these things for a couple bucks profit. They spent billions on their 32nm process, and have limited fabrication lines capable of producing 32nm chips. Each new fab can cost billions to bring online, so if they're going to produce a chip on it, that chips has to be damn profitable to recoup the physical facilities investment and R&D investment that went into making the fab. Quite simply, Intel can make more money selling Core 2 based chips on their 32 nm process than they can the Atom.
Fair enough. BTW, as I understand Intel's main target for making money off their 32nm is not Core 2 at 32nm but Arrandale and Clarkdale... Which will be the bulk of their 32nm chips in the 1st half of 2010. That and the sexy high-end, high-profit-margin Gulftown sixcore. 12 threads. Dual socket and you've got 12 cores, 24 threads.
You're assuming Apple will target the same space. They won't. I don't see Apple trying to compete in the sub-$300 space since that would kill sales of the iPhone, iPod and iPod touch all at once. But a $400 netbook is passe; you can get a $400 laptop nowadays. The sole reason netbooks are selling so well is because of price. I know a lot of college students who got netbooks for Christmas last year because it was a cheap wow gift that is actually useful to that segment, even if they already had a laptop. An Apple tablet on the other hand would never fit in to the cheap category, and therefore won't have the volume. People won't want to copy Apple's rumored touch tablet if they can't get the volume.
Actually, I was saying the reverse. Not that Apple will copy netbooks, but that Apple could develop a tablet, and then everyone else is going to try and copy that. I agree that sales of iPhone and iPod touch should not be cannibalised. That leaves the $400 to $700 window of opportunity for an Apple tablet. Remember, it's Apple, so it should be something pretty stunning that people are willing to pay for that and enjoy it instead of a netbook or laptop at similar or lower prices. Now, once Apple makes it, then a whole bunch of other brands are going to try and jump in with their own multi-touch tablets (sometimes even if they don't get volume, they just like copying Apple -- see various smartphones), probably based on Atom. The trick is that the tablet is unlikely to be a full Mac OS X running on Intel but perhaps iPhone OS on steroids with ARM ~ meaning juicy profit margins for Apple to feast on in 2010... coupled with 3G on the tablet and deals with telcos, tablet App Store, etc.
Until this thread, do you realise I haven't even heard about the AMD Neo? And I've been following PC (not just Mac) news for the past few months quite intently, on CPUs, GPUs, Anandtech, Tom's, Fudzilla.
I got to check out this Neo thing, but sounds like AMD has some big time marketing and branding issues, Intel is really "shock and awe" slamming the media with their Atom marketing arsenal.
Search around for AMD L330. It's still K8 based but the K10's are coming in 2010 on 45 or 32nm. Fusion will show up soon (hopefully) and have an integrated HD GPU. The Neo's are usually paired with the 7xx series chipset which is stellar! In typical AMD fashion overclocking is a breeze and stable to a point. Underclocking is even better. Can run the L110 at .7v and not drop core speed. Powernow is deactivated it seems but on a 5200mah battery, ATI X1270 with 384mb, LED 11.6" I can get 5hrs on the OEM HD, 6hrs on the Hitachi Eco-Drive... Haven't played with the SSD yet, need more space at this time.
I like mine. My MacBook is too heavy and klunky nowadays compared to my netbook. I can take it anyware and use it for my email/Web browsing machine, which my MacBook previously did..
I got one, it is called iPhone
I like mine. My MacBook is too heavy and klunky nowadays compared to my netbook. I can take it anyware and use it for my email/Web browsing machine, which my MacBook previously did. I had to use virtualization to run Office on my MacBook, since our company requires the latest Office, but VMWare brought my Mac to its knees. Office on the netbook ain't great but it's faster than my MacBook was and it cost $700 less than a new MacBook.
I got one, it is called iPhone
Yeah, between the iPhone 3GS and my MacBook 13" Aluminium I'm covered. Skittlebrau, do you have a 7200rpm drive and 4GB of RAM? That usually does fine in VMWare Fusion... Along with a 2ghz Core 2 Duo.
I do understand though, some people will still like and need a netbook... That market may evolve, but will still be around over the next few years. Like I said though, I'm waiting for the real innovation to take us away from the [physical keyboard-screen-foldable] paradigm.
Search around for AMD L330. It's still K8 based but the K10's are coming in 2010 on 45 or 32nm. Fusion will show up soon (hopefully) and have an integrated HD GPU. The Neo's are usually paired with the 7xx series chipset which is stellar! In typical AMD fashion overclocking is a breeze and stable to a point. Underclocking is even better. Can run the L110 at .7v and not drop core speed. Powernow is deactivated it seems but on a 5200mah battery, ATI X1270 with 384mb, LED 11.6" I can get 5hrs on the OEM HD, 6hrs on the Hitachi Eco-Drive... Haven't played with the SSD yet, need more space at this time.
Cool.
Edit: What brand is your netbook? I see mainly MSI and HP netbooks...