You're all wrong...every single one of you. China is doing this to localize its economy so that the global collapsing economy won't affect it. Thanks to the US and the UK, the entire world will remain in a deep depression for years to come while China will be immune. You may think what they're doing is communistic or selfish but it's just survival. On the other hand, none of you Americans have the right to call China communistic when your very country is heading down that path faster than you can say Oh-bummer.
Puh-lease. China cannot be where it is if the US isn't where it is. China's growth was dependent on the US keeping their markets open and consuming like there was no tomorrow. I don't know if you are Chinese, but the Chinese can hardly criticize the US for the economic policies that fostered China's growth.
Furthermore, the Chinese cannot blame the US solely for the global consumption imbalance that led to the credit bubble that caused the current collapse. Half of that imbalance is directly attributable to China's policy of keeping their currency grossly and artificially overvalued. So now that policy has led to China holding trillions of dollars of US government bonds that are worth far less than the numbers printed on them. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
My question is whether Americans' embrace of an absolute free-market ideology is becoming powerful enough to threaten liberty: if China succeeds economically while being repressive, some Americans may actually think that "proves" there's no money in freedom and America should be like China: virtually enslave the masses and propagandize them to believe their lives' ambition should be to see the state prosper, not themselves personally.
Don't worry. All middle classes, in all countries, when they reach a certain level of economic prosperity will demand the trappings of "middle class respectability". i.e. the political and artistic freedoms that their counterparts in other countries enjoy. As they get wealthier, travel more, read more, and basically see more, they will want the same things for themselves. Frankly, they start to feel embarrassed and indignant that the state treats them like children. It just happened in South Korea, it also jut happened in Spain, it's going to happen in China. And soon.
No country can have a large, wealthy, educated, cosmopolitan middle class and remain repressive. It's against human nature. Against man's innate craving for dignity and self-respect once his belly is full. The question is, will the Chinese leadership resist it or embrace it?
Puh-lease. China cannot be where it is if the US isn't where it is. China's growth was dependent on the US keeping their markets open and consuming like there was no tomorrow. I don't know if you are Chinese, but the Chinese can hardly criticize the US for the economic policies that fostered China's growth.
Furthermore, the Chinese cannot blame the US solely for the global consumption imbalance that led to the credit bubble that caused the current collapse. Half of that imbalance is directly attributable to China's policy of keeping their currency grossly and artificially overvalued. So now that policy has led to China holding trillions of dollars of US government bonds that are worth far less than the numbers printed on them. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
Instead of crying you a river I'll instead giggle uncontrollably at your ignorance.
You're from Switzerland. You, most of all have no standing to criticize the United States or any other country for their immoral practices.
Your country was Hitler's bankers. Even though you declared neutrality in WWII there was popular support for the Nazis in Switzerland. Even today, Switzerland refuses to return to their rightful descendants money the Nazis looted from Jews and deposited in Swiss banks. After WWII, your country continued to do business with Mafia dons, drug lords, third world tyrants, embezzlers and tax cheats.
Switzerland likes to present itself as an orderly, upright, and corruption-free country. But everyone knows right beneath that respectable facade, you are one of the few countries that as a matter of national policy welcomed business from criminals, human rights abusers, and genocidal maniacs.
No, I am NOT from Switzerland; and even if I were, my points would remain the same. And please, don't come with the more-than-tired "the Holocaust explains it all" line for throwing guilt upon people. There was also a lot of support for Nazis in the US before Pearl Harbor made you join the fray. In fact, Switzerland rightly refuses to give money to people that cannot prove their claims; "hearsay" evidence does not count as a strong argument anymore, ya know.
And if it's about the "truth", why not talk about the Katyn massacre, considered to be a German atrocity for 50 years? As for the rest of your BS about banks (since Switzerland has absolutely nothing to do if countries prefer to engage in corruption), you'd better ask Greenspan and Madoff about it...they are more than experts in stealing from people in your own country.
My question is whether Americans' embrace of an absolute free-market ideology is becoming powerful enough to threaten liberty: if China succeeds economically while being repressive, some Americans may actually think that "proves" there's no money in freedom and America should be like China: virtually enslave the masses and propagandize them to believe their lives' ambition should be to see the state prosper, not themselves personally.
This happens already in the US. Just check how many neutral documentaries on Palestine are broadcast everyday on CNN and Fox...I also suggest you read "Have a Nice Doomsday" to see how the Bible Belt and the whacko religious fanatics in "America" interpret sacred texts to kill people and start illegal conflicts.
You're all wrong...every single one of you. China is doing this to localize its economy so that the global collapsing economy won't affect it. Thanks to the US and the UK, the en tire world will remain in a deep depression for years to come while China will be immune. You may think what they're doing is communistic or selfish but it's just survival. On the other hand, none of you Americans have the right to call China communistic when your very country is heading down that path faster than you can say Oh-bummer.
Is that the propaganda the Chinese govements feeds it's people to explain their actions? China has been limiting its people's access to information for many, many years. Long before the current economic crisis. In what way does limiting access to information "localize its economy"? It's censorship, pure and simple. And I'm not saying censorship doesn't exist in other countries. Even in the US there are certain things you can't say on broadcast TV (but there are many other legal avenues where you can access content that can't be broadcast). China and a few other countries go far beyond that in controlling what their citizens can and cannot access.
Go ahead and say it's for the moral good of the citizens and we can debate that. Just don't pretend it has anything to do with protecting their economy.
I'm not here to debate whether what China is doing is good or bad...or right or wrong...I'm here to explain that it's a question of survival as the economy collapses because of the US and the UK.
I know that China's communistic ways are bad and wrong. The US and the UK are headed in that same direction...except they'll be bankrupt and China will become the new superpower. Does that make me happy? Absolutely not. Perhaps one day there will be Chinese soldiers patrolling american soil in search of al Qaeda and killing innocent american civilians in the process.
Perhaps one day there will be Chinese soldiers patrolling american soil in search of al Qaeda and killing innocent american civilians in the process.
Ditto here...maybe then will US citizens understand why so many civilians in other countries hate them so much for their own illegal interventions over the past 100 years..."Destiny manifest" my ass.
Ditto here...maybe then will US citizens understand why so many civilians in other countries hate them so much for their own illegal interventions over the past 100 years..."Destiny manifest" my ass.
To think that most US citizens agree with all of our government's actions is just as idiotic as US citizens thinking most Chinese people agree and support their government's actions. This goes for every country in the world. Just because we (and others) elect leaders democratically doesn't make them 100% correct and "For the People by the People".
One thing is for certain, though. We get to see what our government is doing in other countries. Some choose to ignore it, some agree and salute it, and others disagree and protest it. Chinese or Cubans, or the people of the (old)USSR don't get such liberties to watch how blatantly arrogant and self serving their governments are. They are spoon-fed information and aren't allowed to talk about it on the street if they disagree. They can only smile and say what a great job their government is doing. Sometimes they might even get in trouble for that.
To hope someone else suffers because they caused suffering doesn't fix the underlying problem.
All of the china bashers are wrong. I think that conficionism, which is a chinese philosophy somewhat lends itself to the system of government they have now. Not everyone has to have democracy. When and if the time comes when chinese people feel that they want a new form of government they will change it themselves just like the people in the Soviet Union did. It will be quick and relaltively non violent. For now I get the feeling that most chinese are happy with the communist party and economic growth it promises.
Oh and as far as blocking iTunes, or twitter, that is going a bit overboard I think.
The World Trade Organization ruled this week that China is obstructing trade by forcing foreign suppliers to deliver media through state-owned companies, thereby blocking services like a native iTunes.
The Chinese government has long blocked access to Web sites it feels are objectionable
It is amazing how many ignorant people profess to be so intelligent.
The Chinese communist revolution just celebrated its 60th anniversary.
And admittedly, the people are not free. But not as oppressed as some here contend. Keep in mind that black men weren't allowed to vote in the US until 1868, nearly 90 years after signing of the Constitution and for women, not until 1920 was the 19th Amendment fully ratified by all states.* Do the math.
And the state of world affairs becomes an argument over iTunes? Maybe Jobs is god after all.
Keep in mind that black men weren't allowed to vote in the US until 1868, nearly 90 years after signing of the Constitution and for women, not until 1920 was the 19th Amendment fully ratified by all states.* Do the math.
And a fair majority of us here were alive in 1967 when the US Supreme Court ruled that anti-miscegenation laws were illegal. Just two years before we landed on the moon.
Quote:
And the state of world affairs becomes an argument over iTunes? Maybe Jobs is god after all.
Cupertino is Mecca/Jerusalem/Vatican and Apple Stores are mosques/synagogues/churches?
And a fair majority of us here were alive in 1967 when the US Supreme Court ruled that anti-miscegegation laws were illegal. Just two years before we landed on the moon.
Cupertino is Mecca/Jerusalem/Vatican and Apple Stores are mosques/synagogues/churches?
Comments
You're all wrong...every single one of you. China is doing this to localize its economy so that the global collapsing economy won't affect it. Thanks to the US and the UK, the entire world will remain in a deep depression for years to come while China will be immune. You may think what they're doing is communistic or selfish but it's just survival. On the other hand, none of you Americans have the right to call China communistic when your very country is heading down that path faster than you can say Oh-bummer.
Puh-lease. China cannot be where it is if the US isn't where it is. China's growth was dependent on the US keeping their markets open and consuming like there was no tomorrow. I don't know if you are Chinese, but the Chinese can hardly criticize the US for the economic policies that fostered China's growth.
Furthermore, the Chinese cannot blame the US solely for the global consumption imbalance that led to the credit bubble that caused the current collapse. Half of that imbalance is directly attributable to China's policy of keeping their currency grossly and artificially overvalued. So now that policy has led to China holding trillions of dollars of US government bonds that are worth far less than the numbers printed on them. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
My question is whether Americans' embrace of an absolute free-market ideology is becoming powerful enough to threaten liberty: if China succeeds economically while being repressive, some Americans may actually think that "proves" there's no money in freedom and America should be like China: virtually enslave the masses and propagandize them to believe their lives' ambition should be to see the state prosper, not themselves personally.
Don't worry. All middle classes, in all countries, when they reach a certain level of economic prosperity will demand the trappings of "middle class respectability". i.e. the political and artistic freedoms that their counterparts in other countries enjoy. As they get wealthier, travel more, read more, and basically see more, they will want the same things for themselves. Frankly, they start to feel embarrassed and indignant that the state treats them like children. It just happened in South Korea, it also jut happened in Spain, it's going to happen in China. And soon.
No country can have a large, wealthy, educated, cosmopolitan middle class and remain repressive. It's against human nature. Against man's innate craving for dignity and self-respect once his belly is full. The question is, will the Chinese leadership resist it or embrace it?
Puh-lease. China cannot be where it is if the US isn't where it is. China's growth was dependent on the US keeping their markets open and consuming like there was no tomorrow. I don't know if you are Chinese, but the Chinese can hardly criticize the US for the economic policies that fostered China's growth.
Furthermore, the Chinese cannot blame the US solely for the global consumption imbalance that led to the credit bubble that caused the current collapse. Half of that imbalance is directly attributable to China's policy of keeping their currency grossly and artificially overvalued. So now that policy has led to China holding trillions of dollars of US government bonds that are worth far less than the numbers printed on them. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
Instead of crying you a river I'll instead giggle uncontrollably at your ignorance.
You're from Switzerland. You, most of all have no standing to criticize the United States or any other country for their immoral practices.
Your country was Hitler's bankers. Even though you declared neutrality in WWII there was popular support for the Nazis in Switzerland. Even today, Switzerland refuses to return to their rightful descendants money the Nazis looted from Jews and deposited in Swiss banks. After WWII, your country continued to do business with Mafia dons, drug lords, third world tyrants, embezzlers and tax cheats.
Switzerland likes to present itself as an orderly, upright, and corruption-free country. But everyone knows right beneath that respectable facade, you are one of the few countries that as a matter of national policy welcomed business from criminals, human rights abusers, and genocidal maniacs.
No, I am NOT from Switzerland; and even if I were, my points would remain the same. And please, don't come with the more-than-tired "the Holocaust explains it all" line for throwing guilt upon people. There was also a lot of support for Nazis in the US before Pearl Harbor made you join the fray. In fact, Switzerland rightly refuses to give money to people that cannot prove their claims; "hearsay" evidence does not count as a strong argument anymore, ya know.
And if it's about the "truth", why not talk about the Katyn massacre, considered to be a German atrocity for 50 years? As for the rest of your BS about banks (since Switzerland has absolutely nothing to do if countries prefer to engage in corruption), you'd better ask Greenspan and Madoff about it...they are more than experts in stealing from people in your own country.
My question is whether Americans' embrace of an absolute free-market ideology is becoming powerful enough to threaten liberty: if China succeeds economically while being repressive, some Americans may actually think that "proves" there's no money in freedom and America should be like China: virtually enslave the masses and propagandize them to believe their lives' ambition should be to see the state prosper, not themselves personally.
This happens already in the US. Just check how many neutral documentaries on Palestine are broadcast everyday on CNN and Fox...I also suggest you read "Have a Nice Doomsday" to see how the Bible Belt and the whacko religious fanatics in "America" interpret sacred texts to kill people and start illegal conflicts.
You're all wrong...every single one of you. China is doing this to localize its economy so that the global collapsing economy won't affect it. Thanks to the US and the UK, the en tire world will remain in a deep depression for years to come while China will be immune. You may think what they're doing is communistic or selfish but it's just survival. On the other hand, none of you Americans have the right to call China communistic when your very country is heading down that path faster than you can say Oh-bummer.
then why block wikipedia ?
Is that the propaganda the Chinese govements feeds it's people to explain their actions? China has been limiting its people's access to information for many, many years. Long before the current economic crisis. In what way does limiting access to information "localize its economy"? It's censorship, pure and simple. And I'm not saying censorship doesn't exist in other countries. Even in the US there are certain things you can't say on broadcast TV (but there are many other legal avenues where you can access content that can't be broadcast). China and a few other countries go far beyond that in controlling what their citizens can and cannot access.
Go ahead and say it's for the moral good of the citizens and we can debate that. Just don't pretend it has anything to do with protecting their economy.
I'm not here to debate whether what China is doing is good or bad...or right or wrong...I'm here to explain that it's a question of survival as the economy collapses because of the US and the UK.
I know that China's communistic ways are bad and wrong. The US and the UK are headed in that same direction...except they'll be bankrupt and China will become the new superpower. Does that make me happy? Absolutely not. Perhaps one day there will be Chinese soldiers patrolling american soil in search of al Qaeda and killing innocent american civilians in the process.
Perhaps one day there will be Chinese soldiers patrolling american soil in search of al Qaeda and killing innocent american civilians in the process.
Ditto here...maybe then will US citizens understand why so many civilians in other countries hate them so much for their own illegal interventions over the past 100 years..."Destiny manifest" my ass.
then why block wikipedia ?
Because China is using atrocious means to get what they want. I never said I agreed with the way China is trying to become a superpower.
One might ask the same question of Americans. Or rather, why don't Americans stand up to ever-increasing encroachments on liberty?
The iPhone is the opiate of the masses.
It's also rather amusing the way some of you offer sympathy to the Chinese people. It's a fantastic country steeped in history and culture.
They just want to preserve what they have and keep out the Oligarch's and neoliberals in that are sucking us dry.
I think it's a good move by China. Why should it Kowtow to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats from the WTO.
Because China is a signatory to the various agreements which authorize the WTO. They are members of the WTO.
Ditto here...maybe then will US citizens understand why so many civilians in other countries hate them so much for their own illegal interventions over the past 100 years..."Destiny manifest" my ass.
To think that most US citizens agree with all of our government's actions is just as idiotic as US citizens thinking most Chinese people agree and support their government's actions. This goes for every country in the world. Just because we (and others) elect leaders democratically doesn't make them 100% correct and "For the People by the People".
One thing is for certain, though. We get to see what our government is doing in other countries. Some choose to ignore it, some agree and salute it, and others disagree and protest it. Chinese or Cubans, or the people of the (old)USSR don't get such liberties to watch how blatantly arrogant and self serving their governments are. They are spoon-fed information and aren't allowed to talk about it on the street if they disagree. They can only smile and say what a great job their government is doing. Sometimes they might even get in trouble for that.
To hope someone else suffers because they caused suffering doesn't fix the underlying problem.
Oh and as far as blocking iTunes, or twitter, that is going a bit overboard I think.
Not everyone has to have democracy.
Yes they do because anything different from my culture scares the bejeebies out of me.
The World Trade Organization ruled this week that China is obstructing trade by forcing foreign suppliers to deliver media through state-owned companies, thereby blocking services like a native iTunes.
The Chinese government has long blocked access to Web sites it feels are objectionable
And what countries don't or haven't?
The list is rather short. And the US is not one of them, as is the rest of the 38 so called developed countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country
It is amazing how many ignorant people profess to be so intelligent.
The Chinese communist revolution just celebrated its 60th anniversary.
And admittedly, the people are not free. But not as oppressed as some here contend. Keep in mind that black men weren't allowed to vote in the US until 1868, nearly 90 years after signing of the Constitution and for women, not until 1920 was the 19th Amendment fully ratified by all states.* Do the math.
And the state of world affairs becomes an argument over iTunes? Maybe Jobs is god after all.
* http://dpsinfo.com/women/history/timeline.html
Keep in mind that black men weren't allowed to vote in the US until 1868, nearly 90 years after signing of the Constitution and for women, not until 1920 was the 19th Amendment fully ratified by all states.* Do the math.
And a fair majority of us here were alive in 1967 when the US Supreme Court ruled that anti-miscegenation laws were illegal. Just two years before we landed on the moon.
And the state of world affairs becomes an argument over iTunes? Maybe Jobs is god after all.
And a fair majority of us here were alive in 1967 when the US Supreme Court ruled that anti-miscegegation laws were illegal. Just two years before we landed on the moon.
Yes I remember both events quite vividly.
Hmmm. Never thought of it that way. However, I never prayed more for a place I would like to go to.
as a member of WTO china has to act...! if they fail to do so trade sanction can, and in this case will be imposed...
the article explains this pretty good... please READ the full article...
But would China's WTO membership be in danger if they fail to comply? I wonder.