It would seem rather risky for Apple to go with this technology for a new tablet. I'm worried because the critics will be busily looking for any minor problem to destroy the tablet. It would have to be spot-on perfect. I don't care whether they use this technology or not as far as personal use is concerned. I can easily live with a standard virtual keyboard. However, if this keyboard technology were to work as advertised, Apple would probably own the tablet industry providing many people even want a tablet computer. I figure the tablet has to be at least as good as a standard iPod Touch, so how much of a failure could it be. It would have to be more popular than a Newton was. I'm not getting my expectations up for this touch-screen technology because this patent use in the tablet is purely speculation.
It's a real need if you want a usable keyboard. It's also an enabler for a lot of useful UI enhancements.
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
A lot of very intelligent and capable people still think the only "real" keyboards are the ones with centimetre high keys that travel a millimetre or two when you hit them and sound an audible clicking sound. A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
A lot of this smells like market manipulation. I suspect traders have accumulated the stock on the dips and now they get to release all these "news" in a low volume day. Cha-Ching!
Sure, there may be an Apple Tablet in the works... but a lot of this is known. Now somebody is rehashing old news and pumping the stock.
BTW, I have been long the stock but these "news" still smell manipulation.
And this time it's working like a charm! Up nearly 3.5% this morning... That'll help Santa with the presents...
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
A lot of very intelligent and capable people still think the only "real" keyboards are the ones with centimetre high keys that travel a millimetre or two when you hit them and sound an audible clicking sound. A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
I have typed on a Selectric keyboard and there is none better. They are big, clunky, and LOUD (like my 1969 Camaro) but like the Camaro they are super fast. They have no place in the modern sleek small and highly designed world of personal computers, iPhones, and iTablets but make no mistake about it the Selectric keyboard is a very good input device.
A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
You haven't.
Seriously, a lot probably depends on what a person is used to.
Personally, I HATED Apple's current desktop keyboards at first. But after a while I've come to really like it, and would have a tough time going back to an older-style PC board. Perhaps Apple's current keyboard is just one step towards a bigger goal?
Time will tell if the venture into zero feedback touch-keys is the correct path. Some things need feedback (think of the steering and brakes on a motor vehicle); we'll see if the keyboard proves the same.
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
Except with this technology you can have both. It allows you to not have to look at the keyboard to have a tactile reference point to where your fingers are.
You also ignore the advantages of tactile reference points on a surface as a UI mechanism. See the linked Starfire concept video from the 90s. The paper and other objects on the display surface was ridged so you would find it on your desk without needing to look at it just like real paper.
Quote:
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
You should note that current day keyboards are still very close to typewriter keyboards. Less travel but the same tactile reference points.
Why would Apple choose to have the patent applications published less than 4 months from the date of filing (August 27, 2009), rather than wait the standard/default 18 months? Is this merely to obviate Jobs' needing to say during the public unveiling, "And boy, have we patented it!" as he did for the original iPhone?
Why would Apple choose to have the patent applications published less than 4 months from the date of filing (August 27, 2009), rather than wait the standard/default 18 months? Is this merely to obviate Jobs' needing to say during the public unveiling, "And boy, have we patented it!" as he did for the original iPhone?
Maybe it's a red herring to get companies who try to copy Apple to invest R&D resources in something similar. I don't think the tactile feedback concept will be used by Apple. With the ability of the screen sensors to be able to recognize the entire hand, isn't it possible that the tablet could place the keys under the fingers, wherever the user placed them on the screen (half of the keyboard under the left hand and half under the right hand)?
Except with this technology you can have both. It allows you to not have to look at the keyboard to have a tactile reference point to where your fingers are ... You also ignore the advantages of tactile reference points on a surface as a UI mechanism ...
True. This concept only has "legs" in touch typing scenarios.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I would argue that most typing on the new virtual keyboards is going to be done on mobile devices that one holds in one's hands, not something lying on a table top or your lap that you can position your fingers over in standard touch typing fashion. Using the portrait mode keyboard on the iPhone and typing with one's thumbs while holding it in your hands is far far faster than lying the iPhone down or even holding it in landscape mode for instance. You can almost tell the "old school" users by their attempts to lay the phone down on a table and use it like a regular keyboard.
As a side note, I wold say that in my experience almost every computer user I've made aware of the little bumps on the "F" and "J" "home keys" is both shocked and surprised that they are even there, and most don't notice them and don't touch type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
... You should note that current day keyboards are still very close to typewriter keyboards. Less travel but the same tactile reference points.
Indeed. It may have come across that I was dissing the IBM Selectric when in fact I used to use one myself and its a fantastic machine that I am sure is in a technology museum somewhere. The only downside of old typewriters was the physical effort of moving the keys. The IBM electric did that for you in a very efficient way, making typing a breeze and really speeding up the whole process.
Before the Selectric I used this (in yellow though):
The problem with a virtual keyboard on a small device like a 7"-10" device is that unless you have two multi-touch displays you're taking up most of the screen real estate for the keyboard.
If the keyboard will be there a lot, then you might as well have a MBA like device that can swivel to tablet format rather than including the expense of a second display that 70-90% of the time is just showing the keyboard.
I guess it depends on what you think people will be using a tablet for.
I assume people will use a tablet for watching videos, looking at pictures, surfing, email, texting, playing games and gps. Pretty much like they're using their netbooks, and unlikely to necessitate invoking the keyboard a lot.
For that level of text entry, I think a slightly smaller than standard (the keyboard on my MBP is 10" wide, a 10" diagonal tablet would be 8" wide) virtual keyboard would be fine, especially if it used the iPhones pop-up letter confirmation and probability mapping. Half the screen in landscape would still leave enough room to display 8 or so lines of text-- not much more off putting than entering text into the the text box I'm using now to post this.
I'm assuming that Apple has carefully weighted the tradeoffs among size, weight and functionality; I would guess that if it's a 10" device the loss of a real keyboard will be offset by an extremely thin and light form factor, which is the reason you would pick this over a netbook.
I'm also assuming that the reports of "surprising" user interaction have to do with Apple thinking a lot about how you would physically relate to a device this size, at a very tactile level. The various styles of iPhone UI demonstrate, I think, that it's possible to have a "real" computing experience without text input being the primary means of interaction.
True. This concept only has "legs" in touch typing scenarios.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I would argue that most typing on the new virtual keyboards is going to be done on mobile devices that one holds in one's hands, not something lying on a table top or your lap that you can position your fingers over in standard touch typing fashion. Using the portrait mode keyboard on the iPhone and typing with one's thumbs while holding it in your hands is far far faster than lying the iPhone down or even holding it in landscape mode for instance. You can almost tell the "old school" users by their attempts to lay the phone down on a table and use it like a regular keyboard.
As a side note, I wold say that in my experience almost every computer user I've made aware of the little bumps on the "F" and "J" "home keys" is both shocked and surprised that they are even there, and most don't notice them and don't touch type.
Indeed. It may have come across that I was dissing the IBM Selectric when in fact I used to use one myself and its a fantastic machine that I am sure is in a technology museum somewhere. The only downside of old typewriters was the physical effort of moving the keys. The IBM electric did that for you in a very efficient way, making typing a breeze and really speeding up the whole process.
Before the Selectric I used this (in yellow though):
I've got a turn of the 20th century ribbon feed typewriter made by Royal still works correctly.
Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.
Getting more excited already! As with the iPhone, we can expect great innovations from Apple.
I'm not sure how much professionals will get out of this machine, since there's mostly talk about watching movies, and reading papers, magazines and books.
Too bad that so many possible features are already made public way before the actual presentation. It takes a little bit away from the surprise effects. But that will be unavoidable I guess, in fact, more and more so.
there's gonna be something that nobody thought of yet, something amazing.. thats what keeps me excited
Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.
Apple does not like hinges. I doubt they even like them on their own laptops.
Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.
I don't see apple going that route. It seems to clunky and with all the hinges and whatnot just more to break. I want a unibody 7-10 inch tablet with an OS between the iphones and OS X.. and the Ilife/iwork groups. Under $1000, no 3G plan for me.
Comments
Finally more tablet rumors.
Thank god these aren't stupid analysts talking shit but something slight more real!
Hope I get to see that tablet next month. Don't think I'll buy it yet. Second iteration is key.
It's a real need if you want a usable keyboard. It's also an enabler for a lot of useful UI enhancements.
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
A lot of very intelligent and capable people still think the only "real" keyboards are the ones with centimetre high keys that travel a millimetre or two when you hit them and sound an audible clicking sound. A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
A lot of this smells like market manipulation. I suspect traders have accumulated the stock on the dips and now they get to release all these "news" in a low volume day. Cha-Ching!
Sure, there may be an Apple Tablet in the works... but a lot of this is known. Now somebody is rehashing old news and pumping the stock.
BTW, I have been long the stock but these "news" still smell manipulation.
And this time it's working like a charm!
And this time it's working like a charm!
Up to $209 now, wowzer of a stock play there. Good job guys, you fooled us.
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
A lot of very intelligent and capable people still think the only "real" keyboards are the ones with centimetre high keys that travel a millimetre or two when you hit them and sound an audible clicking sound. A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
I have typed on a Selectric keyboard and there is none better. They are big, clunky, and LOUD (like my 1969 Camaro) but like the Camaro they are super fast. They have no place in the modern sleek small and highly designed world of personal computers, iPhones, and iTablets but make no mistake about it the Selectric keyboard is a very good input device.
A lot of other (older) intelligent people will tell you that you haven't "really" typed until you've done it on an IBM Selectric electric typewriter.
You haven't.
Seriously, a lot probably depends on what a person is used to.
Personally, I HATED Apple's current desktop keyboards at first. But after a while I've come to really like it, and would have a tough time going back to an older-style PC board. Perhaps Apple's current keyboard is just one step towards a bigger goal?
Time will tell if the venture into zero feedback touch-keys is the correct path. Some things need feedback (think of the steering and brakes on a motor vehicle); we'll see if the keyboard proves the same.
I've got a feeling people will think of this as a sort of non-issue in the future tough.
People *always* say things like "It's not a real ..." or "It's not a useable ..." <insert term> when a new technology comes out.
Except with this technology you can have both. It allows you to not have to look at the keyboard to have a tactile reference point to where your fingers are.
You also ignore the advantages of tactile reference points on a surface as a UI mechanism. See the linked Starfire concept video from the 90s. The paper and other objects on the display surface was ridged so you would find it on your desk without needing to look at it just like real paper.
*Fun Fact: When the computer first came out most high end typists could actually type faster on the electric typewriter than they could on the computer keyboard.
That didn't stop the computer from wiping the floor with electric typewriters though, and it doesn't mean that won't all be fingering our smooth glass displays for many years to come.
You should note that current day keyboards are still very close to typewriter keyboards. Less travel but the same tactile reference points.
Not counting on this one. A tactile keyboard with bumps is just... weird. And over engineered (read: sloppy).
Why would Apple choose to have the patent applications published less than 4 months from the date of filing (August 27, 2009), rather than wait the standard/default 18 months? Is this merely to obviate Jobs' needing to say during the public unveiling, "And boy, have we patented it!" as he did for the original iPhone?
Maybe it's a red herring to get companies who try to copy Apple to invest R&D resources in something similar. I don't think the tactile feedback concept will be used by Apple. With the ability of the screen sensors to be able to recognize the entire hand, isn't it possible that the tablet could place the keys under the fingers, wherever the user placed them on the screen (half of the keyboard under the left hand and half under the right hand)?
Except with this technology you can have both. It allows you to not have to look at the keyboard to have a tactile reference point to where your fingers are ... You also ignore the advantages of tactile reference points on a surface as a UI mechanism ...
True. This concept only has "legs" in touch typing scenarios.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I would argue that most typing on the new virtual keyboards is going to be done on mobile devices that one holds in one's hands, not something lying on a table top or your lap that you can position your fingers over in standard touch typing fashion. Using the portrait mode keyboard on the iPhone and typing with one's thumbs while holding it in your hands is far far faster than lying the iPhone down or even holding it in landscape mode for instance. You can almost tell the "old school" users by their attempts to lay the phone down on a table and use it like a regular keyboard.
As a side note, I wold say that in my experience almost every computer user I've made aware of the little bumps on the "F" and "J" "home keys" is both shocked and surprised that they are even there, and most don't notice them and don't touch type.
... You should note that current day keyboards are still very close to typewriter keyboards. Less travel but the same tactile reference points.
Indeed. It may have come across that I was dissing the IBM Selectric when in fact I used to use one myself and its a fantastic machine that I am sure is in a technology museum somewhere. The only downside of old typewriters was the physical effort of moving the keys. The IBM electric did that for you in a very efficient way, making typing a breeze and really speeding up the whole process.
Before the Selectric I used this (in yellow though):
The problem with a virtual keyboard on a small device like a 7"-10" device is that unless you have two multi-touch displays you're taking up most of the screen real estate for the keyboard.
If the keyboard will be there a lot, then you might as well have a MBA like device that can swivel to tablet format rather than including the expense of a second display that 70-90% of the time is just showing the keyboard.
I guess it depends on what you think people will be using a tablet for.
I assume people will use a tablet for watching videos, looking at pictures, surfing, email, texting, playing games and gps. Pretty much like they're using their netbooks, and unlikely to necessitate invoking the keyboard a lot.
For that level of text entry, I think a slightly smaller than standard (the keyboard on my MBP is 10" wide, a 10" diagonal tablet would be 8" wide) virtual keyboard would be fine, especially if it used the iPhones pop-up letter confirmation and probability mapping. Half the screen in landscape would still leave enough room to display 8 or so lines of text-- not much more off putting than entering text into the the text box I'm using now to post this.
I'm assuming that Apple has carefully weighted the tradeoffs among size, weight and functionality; I would guess that if it's a 10" device the loss of a real keyboard will be offset by an extremely thin and light form factor, which is the reason you would pick this over a netbook.
I'm also assuming that the reports of "surprising" user interaction have to do with Apple thinking a lot about how you would physically relate to a device this size, at a very tactile level. The various styles of iPhone UI demonstrate, I think, that it's possible to have a "real" computing experience without text input being the primary means of interaction.
True. This concept only has "legs" in touch typing scenarios.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I would argue that most typing on the new virtual keyboards is going to be done on mobile devices that one holds in one's hands, not something lying on a table top or your lap that you can position your fingers over in standard touch typing fashion. Using the portrait mode keyboard on the iPhone and typing with one's thumbs while holding it in your hands is far far faster than lying the iPhone down or even holding it in landscape mode for instance. You can almost tell the "old school" users by their attempts to lay the phone down on a table and use it like a regular keyboard.
As a side note, I wold say that in my experience almost every computer user I've made aware of the little bumps on the "F" and "J" "home keys" is both shocked and surprised that they are even there, and most don't notice them and don't touch type.
Indeed. It may have come across that I was dissing the IBM Selectric when in fact I used to use one myself and its a fantastic machine that I am sure is in a technology museum somewhere. The only downside of old typewriters was the physical effort of moving the keys. The IBM electric did that for you in a very efficient way, making typing a breeze and really speeding up the whole process.
Before the Selectric I used this (in yellow though):
I've got a turn of the 20th century ribbon feed typewriter made by Royal still works correctly.
Getting more excited already! As with the iPhone, we can expect great innovations from Apple.
I'm not sure how much professionals will get out of this machine, since there's mostly talk about watching movies, and reading papers, magazines and books.
Too bad that so many possible features are already made public way before the actual presentation. It takes a little bit away from the surprise effects. But that will be unavoidable I guess, in fact, more and more so.
there's gonna be something that nobody thought of yet, something amazing.. thats what keeps me excited
Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.
Apple does not like hinges. I doubt they even like them on their own laptops.
They are almost too good! Fake?
Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.
I don't see apple going that route. It seems to clunky and with all the hinges and whatnot just more to break. I want a unibody 7-10 inch tablet with an OS between the iphones and OS X.. and the Ilife/iwork groups. Under $1000, no 3G plan for me.
I'm still stunned by seeing an Apple patent application with well drawn hands.
They are almost too good! Fake?
No, not fake. The previous hand model with the E.T.-looking hands was lured away by Microsoft for higher pay.