In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.
And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.
A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.
Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.
Ah... seems to me all the other phone makers are trying to catch up to Apple. So who exactly does Apple need to catch up to?
The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.
I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.
Apple stated that they would have 3rd party multitasking when they felt the hardware and battery life would accommodate it. Hopefully, that will be this coming June. It's a good chance. Apple has been knocking the complaints about features off with every upgrade. This one will come too.
I hardly think so. Spouting off features or lack there of is absolutely meaningless and highly subjective. One or a few of those may be important to some users, but I hardly think they are "detracting" people from buying an iPhone.
The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard. The rest of what you mentioned are not features most people specifically look for in a mobile device.
I would say, given how app crazy iPhone users seem to be, Android's inability to install applications on removable storage would be it's biggest detractor. The Nexus One only has 512MB (Internal Storage; Flash Memory), the Droid, 256MB, which means they can't install applications beyond that point. Currently on my iPhone, applications take up a little over 860MB of storage, which means if I own and Android device, I would have to remove a lot of the functionality that I wanted or needed.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that?a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
Luckily there is a very good chance it will be addressed by then. An Apple tablet running some variant of iPhone OS will have multitasking (virtually a given) and the next iPhone will likely be using dual core Arm chips so Apple might decide that multitasking will work well enough to meet their standards. I think switching would just highlight a bunch of other things that you took for granted on an iPhone. Although I do want to get an Android device so I can compare and contrast them more accurately. Going on third party reports isn't the best way.
I'm willing to bet iPhone OS 4.0 will allow for limited 3rd party application multitasking, much in the same way applications ask for permission to use CoreLocation, you will have to specifically allow an application to run in the background and once they do they will not be allowed to spawn off other processes or even start new threads. This will allow applications to remain resident in memory, but not consume anymore resources than absolutely necessary.
It will also only be allowed on 3GS devices or newer; anything older only has 128MB of RAM, and running multiple applications is not practical on those devices.
Regarding Android, a friend of mine recently got an HTC Hero, which is running Android 1.6 (It is an entirely different discussion on why he cannot upgrade to the latest version of Android and a "feature" many Android device proponents fail to mention), but it was definitely clunky. I guess I must just be used to Apple's use of OS X's CoreAnimation everywhere in the interface. The best way to describe it is the iPhone intelligently presents new information and views to you in the interface; for instance, when you click in a field to enter text, the keyboard slides into view and as it does it also pushes the input field up as well so you can see what you're entering. On the Android device, the keyboard just popped up completely covering the field. I had to scroll the field into view to see what I was typing. To many, that may not seem like a big deal, but in practice, it actually is and the user interface is filled with these little things that make the entire experience that much more pleasurable to use.
And when you get right down to it, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features.
3rd party multitasking is a must and Apple should let it be up to the user to determine if we want the penality in battery life or not. The resolution, display size are a non-factor for me. I have no need for anything bigger. And as one person above mentioned, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features. Everyone I know has either returned their droid and Pre products or sold it to someone else. They didn't all go to the iPhone, but they didn't like their experience with the other platforms that compete with the iPhone.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that?a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
3rd party multitasking is a must and Apple should let it be up to the user to determine if we want the penality in battery life or not. The resolution, display size are a non-factor for me. I have no need for anything bigger. And as one person above mentioned, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features. Everyone I know has either returned their droid and Pre products or sold it to someone else. They didn't all go to the iPhone, but they didn't like their experience with the other platforms that compete with the iPhone.
I understand that most people here know the problems associated with unlimited multitasking on these devices. Because of that, we would know what to expect when using it. The problem is that the large majority of the public does not know these problems exist, and will blame the phone, and Apple, for sluggish performance, lock-ups, and shortened battery life.
You are asking people to manage this stuff, when they can't manage a regular phone. If it doesn't work well without user interference, I doubt Apple will be ready to do it. I'm hoping the new phone will be capable of it.
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
I was thinking it was mostly for the base OS install.
The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard.
I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.
But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that—a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.
I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.
But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.
Oh, I personally don't think those are bad things, as my AT&T coverage is fine in my area and I've gotten really good at using the soft keyboard.
But there are people who refuse to use a soft keyboard. Those people would never consider buying a device without a physical keyboard and thus would never buy an iPhone.
There are also people who refuse to use AT&T's service because they've been jilted in the past or for some other reason and until the iPhone is offered on their network of choice, they will never have an iPhone either.
I was just pointing out that these two issues would be a much bigger detractor, by far, for someone buying an iPhone than any of the other items listed in g3pro's post.
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
I don't know.
We have to remember that the entire reason for Android is to bypass Apple's App store. I know this sounds odd, but it's true.
Think about Google's business model. They have no products to sell, whether financial, software, or hardware. The only way they make any real profit is by serving advertising to their users. Everything they've done with cloud apps, Android, Chrome, the browser and the OS, is to serve advertising to the public. Thats why all that is free. It serves up Ads where they make their money.
The problem for them with the App Store is that many of those apps get information for the user without ever having the user go through Google's search, where they serve their ads, and make their money. If that kept up, then they would soon see their business model go up in flames. That's one reason why the Nexus is $529 instead of possibly $699. They're willing to make less on it to get it to more people to whom they can serve Ads to.
So will they allow you to take certain programs off the device? Well, probably not in some cases, as they need them there for the Ads, to ensure that the Ads go through. A few people will get software that allows them to remove them, but like jailbreaking, it will be a minority.
And with both Apple and Google buying Ad placement companies, we can see that Ads will become even more pervasive on both platforms, and then on all the others as well.
The difference is that Google wants the Ads to make money for themselves, as that's the only real way they make money, and Apple wants the Ads so that the 125,000+ developers can use them to make money for themselves, thus ensuring that they will keep producing more apps, particularly free ones.
As long as the Ads remain discreet, I'm fine with it, after all without Ads the economy stops.
Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.
I can understand that. We've been doing that here for years.
The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.
I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.
That is a fair point. Ideally, the application would queue up enough data to not need to use the radio for several minutes, and the OS would allow for audio playback in the background. That is pretty easy to implement.
What is hard is to allow for IM applications which need nearly constant radio access. To make that work, the system would have to do some kind of optimized radio access across applications to get in a heartbeat to different sources in one "turning on" of the radio.
When impemented badly, it kills the battery life too much to be viable.
And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.
Are you serious? I own an iPod touch and by watching the Nexus One videos I can say that there are a lot of advantages to the Android UI:
hardware Back button on the lower left is easier to hit with the thumb, does not take up screen real estate
you can jumb right to a specific home screen
folders on the home screen
widgets on the home screen
notifications on the top pane. Always visible but don't interrupt the user
a better font, readable but not as wide as the iPhone's default font so you can see more information
search suggestions are awesome! With real-time information about weather or locations around you while you are typing!
a zoom-out button for maps (!) So you can use it with only one hand
app icons with different shapes (!) The rounded square icons on the iPhone are a design nightmare
And to be honest I don't see why a closed system or iTunes is an advantage!? On a PC iTunes is the worst media app to date: slow, uninspired and bloated. Combining this with the free choice for future hardware, free navigation and the better hardware now (this will surely change with the new iPhone) the Android platform and the N1 are serious competitors for the iPhone.
And what if Google would stop to support Maps and Mail on the iPhone? They surely will at least update them slower than on their own platform.
And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.
I don't think that iTunes is advantage for majority of Pc owners.
I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.
I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.
I also don't know if there is a specific sync software for Android but it seems that Google wants the user to sync their stuff via the Google account. But while you can use the Nexus One as a regular external drive it shouldn't be a problem to sync with WMP or even iTunes.
Comments
In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.
And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.
A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.
Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.
Ah... seems to me all the other phone makers are trying to catch up to Apple. So who exactly does Apple need to catch up to?
The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.
I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.
Apple stated that they would have 3rd party multitasking when they felt the hardware and battery life would accommodate it. Hopefully, that will be this coming June. It's a good chance. Apple has been knocking the complaints about features off with every upgrade. This one will come too.
I hardly think so. Spouting off features or lack there of is absolutely meaningless and highly subjective. One or a few of those may be important to some users, but I hardly think they are "detracting" people from buying an iPhone.
The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard. The rest of what you mentioned are not features most people specifically look for in a mobile device.
I would say, given how app crazy iPhone users seem to be, Android's inability to install applications on removable storage would be it's biggest detractor. The Nexus One only has 512MB (Internal Storage; Flash Memory), the Droid, 256MB, which means they can't install applications beyond that point. Currently on my iPhone, applications take up a little over 860MB of storage, which means if I own and Android device, I would have to remove a lot of the functionality that I wanted or needed.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that?a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw
Luckily there is a very good chance it will be addressed by then. An Apple tablet running some variant of iPhone OS will have multitasking (virtually a given) and the next iPhone will likely be using dual core Arm chips so Apple might decide that multitasking will work well enough to meet their standards. I think switching would just highlight a bunch of other things that you took for granted on an iPhone. Although I do want to get an Android device so I can compare and contrast them more accurately. Going on third party reports isn't the best way.
I'm willing to bet iPhone OS 4.0 will allow for limited 3rd party application multitasking, much in the same way applications ask for permission to use CoreLocation, you will have to specifically allow an application to run in the background and once they do they will not be allowed to spawn off other processes or even start new threads. This will allow applications to remain resident in memory, but not consume anymore resources than absolutely necessary.
It will also only be allowed on 3GS devices or newer; anything older only has 128MB of RAM, and running multiple applications is not practical on those devices.
Regarding Android, a friend of mine recently got an HTC Hero, which is running Android 1.6 (It is an entirely different discussion on why he cannot upgrade to the latest version of Android and a "feature" many Android device proponents fail to mention), but it was definitely clunky. I guess I must just be used to Apple's use of OS X's CoreAnimation everywhere in the interface. The best way to describe it is the iPhone intelligently presents new information and views to you in the interface; for instance, when you click in a field to enter text, the keyboard slides into view and as it does it also pushes the input field up as well so you can see what you're entering. On the Android device, the keyboard just popped up completely covering the field. I had to scroll the field into view to see what I was typing. To many, that may not seem like a big deal, but in practice, it actually is and the user interface is filled with these little things that make the entire experience that much more pleasurable to use.
And when you get right down to it, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that?a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
3rd party multitasking is a must and Apple should let it be up to the user to determine if we want the penality in battery life or not. The resolution, display size are a non-factor for me. I have no need for anything bigger. And as one person above mentioned, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features. Everyone I know has either returned their droid and Pre products or sold it to someone else. They didn't all go to the iPhone, but they didn't like their experience with the other platforms that compete with the iPhone.
I understand that most people here know the problems associated with unlimited multitasking on these devices. Because of that, we would know what to expect when using it. The problem is that the large majority of the public does not know these problems exist, and will blame the phone, and Apple, for sluggish performance, lock-ups, and shortened battery life.
You are asking people to manage this stuff, when they can't manage a regular phone. If it doesn't work well without user interference, I doubt Apple will be ready to do it. I'm hoping the new phone will be capable of it.
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
I was thinking it was mostly for the base OS install.
The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard.
I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.
But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.
According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that—a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.
The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw
Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.
I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.
But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.
Oh, I personally don't think those are bad things, as my AT&T coverage is fine in my area and I've gotten really good at using the soft keyboard.
But there are people who refuse to use a soft keyboard. Those people would never consider buying a device without a physical keyboard and thus would never buy an iPhone.
There are also people who refuse to use AT&T's service because they've been jilted in the past or for some other reason and until the iPhone is offered on their network of choice, they will never have an iPhone either.
I was just pointing out that these two issues would be a much bigger detractor, by far, for someone buying an iPhone than any of the other items listed in g3pro's post.
Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
I don't know.
We have to remember that the entire reason for Android is to bypass Apple's App store. I know this sounds odd, but it's true.
Think about Google's business model. They have no products to sell, whether financial, software, or hardware. The only way they make any real profit is by serving advertising to their users. Everything they've done with cloud apps, Android, Chrome, the browser and the OS, is to serve advertising to the public. Thats why all that is free. It serves up Ads where they make their money.
The problem for them with the App Store is that many of those apps get information for the user without ever having the user go through Google's search, where they serve their ads, and make their money. If that kept up, then they would soon see their business model go up in flames. That's one reason why the Nexus is $529 instead of possibly $699. They're willing to make less on it to get it to more people to whom they can serve Ads to.
So will they allow you to take certain programs off the device? Well, probably not in some cases, as they need them there for the Ads, to ensure that the Ads go through. A few people will get software that allows them to remove them, but like jailbreaking, it will be a minority.
And with both Apple and Google buying Ad placement companies, we can see that Ads will become even more pervasive on both platforms, and then on all the others as well.
The difference is that Google wants the Ads to make money for themselves, as that's the only real way they make money, and Apple wants the Ads so that the 125,000+ developers can use them to make money for themselves, thus ensuring that they will keep producing more apps, particularly free ones.
As long as the Ads remain discreet, I'm fine with it, after all without Ads the economy stops.
Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.
I can understand that. We've been doing that here for years.
The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.
I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.
That is a fair point. Ideally, the application would queue up enough data to not need to use the radio for several minutes, and the OS would allow for audio playback in the background. That is pretty easy to implement.
What is hard is to allow for IM applications which need nearly constant radio access. To make that work, the system would have to do some kind of optimized radio access across applications to get in a heartbeat to different sources in one "turning on" of the radio.
When impemented badly, it kills the battery life too much to be viable.
And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.
Are you serious? I own an iPod touch and by watching the Nexus One videos I can say that there are a lot of advantages to the Android UI:
- hardware Back button on the lower left is easier to hit with the thumb, does not take up screen real estate
- you can jumb right to a specific home screen
- folders on the home screen
- widgets on the home screen
- notifications on the top pane. Always visible but don't interrupt the user
- a better font, readable but not as wide as the iPhone's default font so you can see more information
- search suggestions are awesome! With real-time information about weather or locations around you while you are typing!
- a zoom-out button for maps (!) So you can use it with only one hand
- app icons with different shapes (!) The rounded square icons on the iPhone are a design nightmare
And to be honest I don't see why a closed system or iTunes is an advantage!? On a PC iTunes is the worst media app to date: slow, uninspired and bloated. Combining this with the free choice for future hardware, free navigation and the better hardware now (this will surely change with the new iPhone) the Android platform and the N1 are serious competitors for the iPhone.And what if Google would stop to support Maps and Mail on the iPhone? They surely will at least update them slower than on their own platform.
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html
And what if Google would stop to support Maps and Mail on the iPhone? They surely will at least update them slower than on their own platform.
Apple makes the mail app and they recently bought a company capable of creating a Google maps alternative for the iPhone...
Products always look good in controlled demonstrations, but don't always work as nicely in reality.
I'm not going to play down multi-tasking but, for just for the record:
- Programs will be at odds for memory and cause product instability
- Most app stores are small but as they grow more problems will occur between apps
- Users will spend time contacting vendors on issues or software developers to fix slowdowns
- Software developers will spend more time making apps "play nice" instead innovating
I'm sorry - turn my multitask smiley upside down...
And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.
I don't think that iTunes is advantage for majority of Pc owners.
I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.
I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.
I also don't know if there is a specific sync software for Android but it seems that Google wants the user to sync their stuff via the Google account. But while you can use the Nexus One as a regular external drive it shouldn't be a problem to sync with WMP or even iTunes.