Well if on the right side of the equation rest mass is less than 0 then the whole right side is positive (the square just shows the absolute value, the valid result of squaring a negative number). If rest mass is positive, then the right side is still obviously positive. Lets say for example that the right side is equal to , oh let's say, 64. Then,
I'm no physicist and negative energy has never been observed but i think it has been demonstrated on aper.. what-ever that means. i don't even know how negative energy would manifest itself... nevermind how we would harness it's potential.
--NB : I have no more computer at home, so I use a friend's Mac times to times to write to you. I cannot write when I want, sorry--
In fact Outsider, some particles of the twin universe act like tachyons, but only from our point of view. It seems for us that their mass and their energy are negative, and that they can travel faster than light, but it is just a geometric perception.
In order to explain this I will talk separately of (1)gravity and (2)speed.
1- The "negative mass" perception :
Mass creates gravity. The more the mass, the more the gravity. Mass, i.e. gravity, is attractive. Buts as Albert Einstein has demonstrated, gravity is no less than a geometric distortion of the space-time induced by mass.
Take a bowling ball and several little metallic balls. Distribute them onto the surface of your bed sheet (the space-time). The bowling ball (the sun) bends the sheet and creates a concave curve, a hollow (gravity). The little balls around (planets) will be attracted in this hole (gravitational attraction force), and will roll towards the big bowling ball :
Fortunately the planets orbit around the sun so the centrifugal force prevent them from crashing onto the star.
Note also that the picture (2D) is a representation of your bed sheet (3D) but that the real space-time distortion (4D) cannot be visualized by our brains...
Now imagine that you could put blue balls on the upper side (A) of your sheet, or red balls under your sheet (B). All the blue balls would attract each others, as all the red balls would attract each others, in their own side (imagine that your sheet is attractive and "sticks" the balls onto its surface).
All the balls of the same color would fall in their hollows :
But if you put blue balls on one side and red balls on the other side, you will have a curious geometric distribution :
a blue ball would repulse a red ball, and vice-versa because a concave curve from one side is seen as a convex bump from the other side view :
You see why matter from the twin-universe is invisible (the "dark matter" or "shadow matter") and acts for us as if it was repulsive (antigravity). BTW, we act like repulsive 'antigravitic' matter for any particle of the twin-universe. But if a blue ball could go on the "under side", it would be attracted by red balls. Because the real essence of the twin-matter is like ours : attractive. And its energy is > 0.
Attraction (gravity) and repulsion (antigravity) are only the same geometric distortion of the space-time, seen from different points of view.
Einstein extended?
The following part (2) will concern the illusion of moving faster thant the speed of light...
"160 persons would be the minimum for multi-generational space travel"
It is exact if we are stuck to live three hundred years in a big spaceship.
But a with a twin-universe topology, this number would decrease to 4 or 6 persons... because we would count in months or years for time travel...
Part two
2- The "faster-than-light" perception :
I will give you a conceptual image from Jean-Pierre Petit to understand easily :
Imagine one universe, made with two aerial folds F1 and F2, separated from each other by an horizontal wall. The laws of physics in this universe are special : you cannot move at hypersonic speed ; the speed of sound is the speed limit.
At the beginning, the two folds have the same temperatures, so the speeds of sound S1 and S2 are equal. The two folds are perfectly parallel, so the distances are the same :
Let's bend the system. One fold is now compressed. Distance between two points A and B decrease. in the same way, compression increase the gas temperature, thus the speed of sound. Exact inverted situation in the other fold F2 :
Nota: the inhabitants of a fold could not measure changes of their own world, because them and their instruments vary in the same way. Idem for time and chronometers.
If someone could change of fold, travel along the contracted one, and then reappear in our world, we would think he had violated law of physics by moving at an "impossible hypersonic speed". But in reality he never broke the sound barrier in its travelling fold, he has just transfered himself in a zone where distances are shorter, and speed of sound is higher. Double feature.
Now apply this to the twin-universe model. The twin universe is in a younger state than ours, more compressed, and its speed of light is higher (40 to 50 times c1 ?) A ship which made an hyperspatial transfert would seem to have travelled faster-than light for our static point of view, whereas in reality its speed had been constantly under c2 in the twin fold. The new, more exact law would be : "It is impossible to move faster than the speed of light in your travelling universe fold."
Next time I will describe the hypertransfert processus briefly and explain an eventual method of propulsion which would make possible interstellar travel at relativistic speeds (speeds near the speed of light) in this twin universe fold. You could ask :
"Incredible ! What kind of thruster could make such a miracle ?"
A partial answer would be... who did mention the need of any thruster ?
I wanted to spill here 2D pictures of a collapsing neutron star and its equivalent technological application (the hyperspace transfert of a ship into the twin universe fold),
but there is a very good explanation and very good pictures at this URL (just read section 6):
Note that if this idea is correct (it is no more than a "technological extension" of the theory), all particles of the ship and passengers would need a "special threatment" in order to control their speeds toward the same direction in the twin fold (in fact at every transfert).
Because if particles speeds were randomly directed, all the craft would act like a huge antimatter bomb, since its dissipated power would correspond to a direct conversion of its total mass into energy...
Hyperspatial transfert could give us the key to the stars (Hyperspatial Transport) or lead to mankind destruction (Hyperspatial Bomb). So if such a possibility exists, it would be safer we do not know how to make it, at least in the current state of humanity.
But no one can tell, because I heard Apple will use HyperTransport? soon
If you can find enough power, then let's build some gravity engines. Hell, the technology is almost there: my friend and I built one out of straws, aluminum foil, wire, and a transformer.
It's a nice little hovering thingamagig. Proven to be powered by a gravity bubble and not ion wind. (Yeah, he found the plans online. These things have been researched since the fifties.)
Yes all these future propulsion technologies are fantastic, but quite frankly space is so massive that we would be very lucky to get to the next solar system in a lifetime with the fastest of the next generation technologies, maybe not even that. The real goal in my mind many many years down the road is FLT travel, faster than light travel. Einstein says its impossible, but could their be a way? Space bending? Wormholes? I am just talking out of my ass here, help me out.
Well, its impossible to move matter faster than light. That's what Einstien said. But like Prim said, you can compress space in a small area so that to an observer you are moving faster than light but you in reality are only moving say 30% the speed of light over a distance that would normally be much larger.
and you can slow light down so that you can literally outpace it
Yeah but that's not practical for space travel. Scientists can slow down light an a very small scale. But this may lead to new discoveries on the nature of the light speed barrier so interesting point.
And THANKS for dredging up this old topic of mine It's still of great interest for me.
--NB : I have no more computer at home, so I use a friend's Mac times to times to write to you. I cannot write when I want, sorry--
In fact Outsider, some particles of the twin universe act like tachyons, but only from our point of view. It seems for us that their mass and their energy are negative, and that they can travel faster than light, but it is just a geometric perception.
In order to explain this I will talk separately of (1)gravity and (2)speed.
1- The "negative mass" perception :
Mass creates gravity. The more the mass, the more the gravity. Mass, i.e. gravity, is attractive. Buts as Albert Einstein has demonstrated, gravity is no less than a geometric distortion of the space-time induced by mass.
Take a bowling ball and several little metallic balls. Distribute them onto the surface of your bed sheet (the space-time). The bowling ball (the sun) bends the sheet and creates a concave curve, a hollow (gravity). The little balls around (planets) will be attracted in this hole (gravitational attraction force), and will roll towards the big bowling ball :
Fortunately the planets orbit around the sun so the centrifugal force prevent them from crashing onto the star.
Note also that the picture (2D) is a representation of your bed sheet (3D) but that the real space-time distortion (4D) cannot be visualized by our brains...
Now imagine that you could put blue balls on the upper side (A) of your sheet, or red balls under your sheet (B). All the blue balls would attract each others, as all the red balls would attract each others, in their own side (imagine that your sheet is attractive and "sticks" the balls onto its surface).
All the balls of the same color would fall in their hollows :
But if you put blue balls on one side and red balls on the other side, you will have a curious geometric distribution :
a blue ball would repulse a red ball, and vice-versa because a concave curve from one side is seen as a convex bump from the other side view :
You see why matter from the twin-universe is invisible (the "dark matter" or "shadow matter") and acts for us as if it was repulsive (antigravity). BTW, we act like repulsive 'antigravitic' matter for any particle of the twin-universe. But if a blue ball could go on the "under side", it would be attracted by red balls. Because the real essence of the twin-matter is like ours : attractive. And its energy is > 0.
Attraction (gravity) and repulsion (antigravity) are only the same geometric distortion of the space-time, seen from different points of view.
Einstein extended?
The following part (2) will concern the illusion of moving faster thant the speed of light...
[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Prim ]</p>
The old rubber sheet theory seems to be gaining support all the time. I believe in 100 years time we will have at least a workable theory for getting around the speed of light. It's funny but when I was growing up most scientists were saying it was impossible. Now it seems that's not exactly true. Like the old Asimov vs Clark articles ( Asimov " Impossible That's All " vs Clark's answer " Possible That's All " ) things have a way of coming true no matter how impossible they seem. It may be this or something we don't realize about physics yet but I believe we'll do it.
100g of antimatter gives 200g of mass that will be converted into energy, or 0.2Kg.
E = mc^2
= 0.2 * (3 x 10^8) * (3 x 10^8)
= 18,000,000,000,000,000 J
= 18 x 10^15 J of energy from the annihilation of 200g of mass.
One Mton of TNT releases 4 x 10^15 J when it explodes, so 200g of anitmatter would be about 4.5Mtons, which is the same amount of energy as released in a (large) nuclear weapon explosion. Do matter/anitmatter annihilations have special properties over regular nuclear of conventional (volcanoes, metoerites, etc..) explosions (with potentially orders of magnitude more enrgy involved)? I suppose that as annihilations take much less time than a nuclear chain reaction, volcanic explosion or a meteor impact this is possible.
How do you get around storing antimatter (cheaply)?
Quote:
I'm no physicist and negative energy has never been observed
Isn't Hawking radiation evidence of negative energy? The theory is that pairs of virtual particles are continuously appearing and cancelling each other out. One of each pair has positive energy, the other negative, giving no problem with conservation of energy. (I'm slightly confused by the conservation of momentum issue though: wouldn't they both go in the same direction?)
If the virtual particle with negative energy falls into a black hole but the postive energy one doesn't, the black hole loses energy (and therefore mass). This energy loss is balanced by the positive energy virtual particle being "emitted" by the black hole as radiation.
Positive energy particles don't make the black hole any larger because ordinary positive particles falling into the black hole lose some energy when they encounter the negative energy virtual particle.
It's not possible (FTL travel) if the method you are trying is to get a ship to accelerate with conventional propulsion , like anti-matter rockets, or some advanced high output ion engine. BUT there may be a way to trick the universe into thinking that you are in fact following cosmic physical rules while really you are moving from one point to another in less time than it would take light to transverse that distance. Now the method is up in the air. Wormholes, if we could ever harness them by making them appear where we want them, would be a way. But thinking more locally, I think the better method would be to compress space-time fabric in front of a vehicle, but to balance this out, space-time would have to be streched behind the vehicle. We understand how magnetic fields work. If we place a magnet on a plate covered with iron filings we notice how they arrange themselves to the magnetic waves; they flow from the top (north) and curve in on the bottom (south). Gravitational waves have also been observed. We take it into account when calculating a degrading orbit of some planet or binary star system. But gravitational waves are much much weaker than electromagnetic waves. But on a grand scale they are devistating. Imagine 2 neutron stars in binary orbits. They are so dense they exude a lot of gravitational waves especially when the waves intersect because of their orbits and close proximity. Their orbits therefore degrade much more than normal until they violently colide and either form another bigger neutron star or a black hole in a huge burst of gravitational waves. These waves have enough energy to compress and expand space in its local vicinity.
Now if we could harness these waves and make them act like that magnet, we could slip through the univerve in a pocket of compressed and expanded space. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of energy this will take but, hey, it's the future.
Interstellar travel and more, intergalactical ones, will never be possible without dramatical new discoveries in Physic. Traveling at speed faster than the light imply traveling in a different dimension or time.
Even if people are interested in Worms, nobody can said what should arrive to people or object enter in it.
Fondamental science has to move and improve, if we want to have a chance to make space travel.
There is also a possibility that space travel at speed faster than the light are not possible. It may looks as a damnation, but it may also be the best protection against dangerous aliens. The universe is so big, that it's not possible to imagine that we are alone, and the most advanced. And if some creatures are more advanced, it does not means they are more kind and respecteful. Therefore, it's possible if the humankind exist it's because we are protected by the physical laws againsts aliens invaders.
Comments
E^2=64
Now here E can either equal 8 or -8.
Numbers are FUN!
Should I say that there is no such thing as negavite energy? Naw...
In fact Outsider, some particles of the twin universe act like tachyons, but only from our point of view. It seems for us that their mass and their energy are negative, and that they can travel faster than light, but it is just a geometric perception.
In order to explain this I will talk separately of (1)gravity and (2)speed.
1- The "negative mass" perception :
Mass creates gravity. The more the mass, the more the gravity. Mass, i.e. gravity, is attractive. Buts as Albert Einstein has demonstrated, gravity is no less than a geometric distortion of the space-time induced by mass.
Take a bowling ball and several little metallic balls. Distribute them onto the surface of your bed sheet (the space-time). The bowling ball (the sun) bends the sheet and creates a concave curve, a hollow (gravity). The little balls around (planets) will be attracted in this hole (gravitational attraction force), and will roll towards the big bowling ball :
Fortunately the planets orbit around the sun so the centrifugal force prevent them from crashing onto the star.
Note also that the picture (2D) is a representation of your bed sheet (3D) but that the real space-time distortion (4D) cannot be visualized by our brains...
Now imagine that you could put blue balls on the upper side (A) of your sheet, or red balls under your sheet (B). All the blue balls would attract each others, as all the red balls would attract each others, in their own side (imagine that your sheet is attractive and "sticks" the balls onto its surface).
All the balls of the same color would fall in their hollows :
But if you put blue balls on one side and red balls on the other side, you will have a curious geometric distribution :
a blue ball would repulse a red ball, and vice-versa because a concave curve from one side is seen as a convex bump from the other side view :
You see why matter from the twin-universe is invisible (the "dark matter" or "shadow matter") and acts for us as if it was repulsive (antigravity). BTW, we act like repulsive 'antigravitic' matter for any particle of the twin-universe. But if a blue ball could go on the "under side", it would be attracted by red balls. Because the real essence of the twin-matter is like ours : attractive. And its energy is > 0.
Attraction (gravity) and repulsion (antigravity) are only the same geometric distortion of the space-time, seen from different points of view.
Einstein extended?
The following part (2) will concern the illusion of moving faster thant the speed of light...
[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Prim ]</p>
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991936"; target="_blank">http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991936</a>;
Seems like 160 is the magic number but I imagine that 1600 on a space ark would be optimal.
It is exact if we are stuck to live three hundred years in a big spaceship.
But a with a twin-universe topology, this number would decrease to 4 or 6 persons... because we would count in months or years for time travel...
Part two
2- The "faster-than-light" perception :
I will give you a conceptual image from Jean-Pierre Petit to understand easily :
Imagine one universe, made with two aerial folds F1 and F2, separated from each other by an horizontal wall. The laws of physics in this universe are special : you cannot move at hypersonic speed ; the speed of sound is the speed limit.
At the beginning, the two folds have the same temperatures, so the speeds of sound S1 and S2 are equal. The two folds are perfectly parallel, so the distances are the same :
Let's bend the system. One fold is now compressed. Distance between two points A and B decrease. in the same way, compression increase the gas temperature, thus the speed of sound. Exact inverted situation in the other fold F2 :
Nota: the inhabitants of a fold could not measure changes of their own world, because them and their instruments vary in the same way. Idem for time and chronometers.
If someone could change of fold, travel along the contracted one, and then reappear in our world, we would think he had violated law of physics by moving at an "impossible hypersonic speed". But in reality he never broke the sound barrier in its travelling fold, he has just transfered himself in a zone where distances are shorter, and speed of sound is higher. Double feature.
Now apply this to the twin-universe model. The twin universe is in a younger state than ours, more compressed, and its speed of light is higher (40 to 50 times c1 ?) A ship which made an hyperspatial transfert would seem to have travelled faster-than light for our static point of view, whereas in reality its speed had been constantly under c2 in the twin fold. The new, more exact law would be : "It is impossible to move faster than the speed of light in your travelling universe fold."
Next time I will describe the hypertransfert processus briefly and explain an eventual method of propulsion which would make possible interstellar travel at relativistic speeds (speeds near the speed of light) in this twin universe fold. You could ask :
"Incredible ! What kind of thruster could make such a miracle ?"
A partial answer would be... who did mention the need of any thruster ?
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991957"; target="_blank">http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991957</a>;
It's much easier to contain anti-atoms than just constituent particles.
but there is a very good explanation and very good pictures at this URL (just read section 6):
<a href="http://www.jp-petit.com/science/interstellar_travel/interstellar_travel3bis.htm"; target="_blank">Technological hyperspace transfer</a>
Look at this page, it is worth the reading !
Note that if this idea is correct (it is no more than a "technological extension" of the theory), all particles of the ship and passengers would need a "special threatment" in order to control their speeds toward the same direction in the twin fold (in fact at every transfert).
Because if particles speeds were randomly directed, all the craft would act like a huge antimatter bomb, since its dissipated power would correspond to a direct conversion of its total mass into energy...
Hyperspatial transfert could give us the key to the stars (Hyperspatial Transport) or lead to mankind destruction (Hyperspatial Bomb). So if such a possibility exists, it would be safer we do not know how to make it, at least in the current state of humanity.
But no one can tell, because I heard Apple will use HyperTransport? soon
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Prim ]</p>
and here: <a href="http://www.space.com/news/nss_okeefe_020411.html"; target="_blank">http://www.space.com/news/nss_okeefe_020411.html</a>;
It's a nice little hovering thingamagig. Proven to be powered by a gravity bubble and not ion wind. (Yeah, he found the plans online. These things have been researched since the fifties.)
Originally posted by curiousuburb
and you can slow light down so that you can literally outpace it
Yeah but that's not practical for space travel. Scientists can slow down light an a very small scale. But this may lead to new discoveries on the nature of the light speed barrier so interesting point.
And THANKS for dredging up this old topic of mine
Originally posted by Prim
--NB : I have no more computer at home, so I use a friend's Mac times to times to write to you. I cannot write when I want, sorry--
In fact Outsider, some particles of the twin universe act like tachyons, but only from our point of view. It seems for us that their mass and their energy are negative, and that they can travel faster than light, but it is just a geometric perception.
In order to explain this I will talk separately of (1)gravity and (2)speed.
1- The "negative mass" perception :
Mass creates gravity. The more the mass, the more the gravity. Mass, i.e. gravity, is attractive. Buts as Albert Einstein has demonstrated, gravity is no less than a geometric distortion of the space-time induced by mass.
Take a bowling ball and several little metallic balls. Distribute them onto the surface of your bed sheet (the space-time). The bowling ball (the sun) bends the sheet and creates a concave curve, a hollow (gravity). The little balls around (planets) will be attracted in this hole (gravitational attraction force), and will roll towards the big bowling ball :
Fortunately the planets orbit around the sun so the centrifugal force prevent them from crashing onto the star.
Note also that the picture (2D) is a representation of your bed sheet (3D) but that the real space-time distortion (4D) cannot be visualized by our brains...
Now imagine that you could put blue balls on the upper side (A) of your sheet, or red balls under your sheet (B). All the blue balls would attract each others, as all the red balls would attract each others, in their own side (imagine that your sheet is attractive and "sticks" the balls onto its surface).
All the balls of the same color would fall in their hollows :
But if you put blue balls on one side and red balls on the other side, you will have a curious geometric distribution :
a blue ball would repulse a red ball, and vice-versa because a concave curve from one side is seen as a convex bump from the other side view :
You see why matter from the twin-universe is invisible (the "dark matter" or "shadow matter") and acts for us as if it was repulsive (antigravity). BTW, we act like repulsive 'antigravitic' matter for any particle of the twin-universe. But if a blue ball could go on the "under side", it would be attracted by red balls. Because the real essence of the twin-matter is like ours : attractive. And its energy is > 0.
Attraction (gravity) and repulsion (antigravity) are only the same geometric distortion of the space-time, seen from different points of view.
Einstein extended?
The following part (2) will concern the illusion of moving faster thant the speed of light...
[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Prim ]</p>
The old rubber sheet theory seems to be gaining support all the time. I believe in 100 years time we will have at least a workable theory for getting around the speed of light. It's funny but when I was growing up most scientists were saying it was impossible. Now it seems that's not exactly true. Like the old Asimov vs Clark articles ( Asimov " Impossible That's All " vs Clark's answer " Possible That's All " ) things have a way of coming true no matter how impossible they seem. It may be this or something we don't realize about physics yet but I believe we'll do it.
E = mc^2
= 0.2 * (3 x 10^8) * (3 x 10^8)
= 18,000,000,000,000,000 J
= 18 x 10^15 J of energy from the annihilation of 200g of mass.
One Mton of TNT releases 4 x 10^15 J when it explodes, so 200g of anitmatter would be about 4.5Mtons, which is the same amount of energy as released in a (large) nuclear weapon explosion. Do matter/anitmatter annihilations have special properties over regular nuclear of conventional (volcanoes, metoerites, etc..) explosions (with potentially orders of magnitude more enrgy involved)? I suppose that as annihilations take much less time than a nuclear chain reaction, volcanic explosion or a meteor impact this is possible.
How do you get around storing antimatter (cheaply)?
I'm no physicist and negative energy has never been observed
Isn't Hawking radiation evidence of negative energy? The theory is that pairs of virtual particles are continuously appearing and cancelling each other out. One of each pair has positive energy, the other negative, giving no problem with conservation of energy. (I'm slightly confused by the conservation of momentum issue though: wouldn't they both go in the same direction?)
If the virtual particle with negative energy falls into a black hole but the postive energy one doesn't, the black hole loses energy (and therefore mass). This energy loss is balanced by the positive energy virtual particle being "emitted" by the black hole as radiation.
Positive energy particles don't make the black hole any larger because ordinary positive particles falling into the black hole lose some energy when they encounter the negative energy virtual particle.
I've no idea if negative energy can be used.
Now if we could harness these waves and make them act like that magnet, we could slip through the univerve in a pocket of compressed and expanded space. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of energy this will take but, hey, it's the future.
Even if people are interested in Worms, nobody can said what should arrive to people or object enter in it.
Fondamental science has to move and improve, if we want to have a chance to make space travel.
There is also a possibility that space travel at speed faster than the light are not possible. It may looks as a damnation, but it may also be the best protection against dangerous aliens. The universe is so big, that it's not possible to imagine that we are alone, and the most advanced. And if some creatures are more advanced, it does not means they are more kind and respecteful. Therefore, it's possible if the humankind exist it's because we are protected by the physical laws againsts aliens invaders.