Intel says Core i5-based MacBook Pro promo was a mistake

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  • Reply 21 of 34
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    x86-64 is just an extension of x86. It was created by AMD but Intel is able to use it because of the cross-licensing agreement between Intel and AMD. Intel still controls core aspects of x86 with their patents, but AMD can use them too because of the cross-licensing deal. I don't see how this contradicts my statement. If the cross-licensing deal is terminated (which might happen, AMD is a bit unstable right now) x86 goes back to Intel. Of course it would be damaging to Intel as well since it loses some key AMD technologies.



    1) You ignore that Apple and other PC makers will rely on some 3rd-party to design and build the CPU making me scratch my head as to why you?d even bring it up.



    2) There are already issue with monopoly positions in the PC market. Intel can?t and won?t destroy AMD?s position in the market.



    3) Apple isn?t stuck because intel is dominate, Apple has chosen to be ?stuck" because Intel offers the best solution for the PC market they they mostly do business in. For iDevices (and likely the next AppleTV and tablet) they are ?stuck? because they are the best choice available.
  • Reply 22 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) You ignore that Apple and other PC makers will rely on some 3rd-party to design and build the CPU making me scratch my head as to why you’d even bring it up.



    2) There are already issue with monopoly positions in the PC market. Intel can’t and won’t destroy AMD’s position in the market.



    3) Apple isn’t stuck because intel is dominate, Apple has chosen to be “stuck" because Intel offers the best solution for the PC market they they mostly do business in. For iDevices (and likely the next AppleTV and tablet) they are “stuck” because they are the best choice available.



    1. Any third party that designs x86-compatible CPUs will need to license x86 from Intel first.



    2. Probably true, although AMD may still blow up on its own. It's a tricky situation, and I'd like to see Intel lose its monopoly like many people. Sometimes it seems this whole industry is patched together with lawsuits and court orders.



    3. I don't see how this is relevant, I never speculated on why Apple went with Intel. I'm only talking about the rather obvious fact that now that Apple has made the transition to x86, they are going to be stuck with it for quite a while because they could not possibly ask their developers to make yet another transition so soon.
  • Reply 23 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bartfat View Post


    To ARM or AMD? What a silly question. It seems more likely, though, that Intel will want Apple to stay onboard, because that means the most desirable computers in the world will be equipped with their chips and not a competitor's.



    Your answer is rather quite stupid. Apple went to Intel, not the other way round. Get a life fanboy.
  • Reply 24 of 34
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holywarrior007 View Post


    Your answer is rather quite stupid. Apple went to Intel, not the other way round. Get a life fanboy.



    no

    intel begged apple for crumbs from its table



    and intel hit a grand slam



    look at apples sales



    your fanboy crack is what is the real stuupid face here . i guess german people have no sence of fun
  • Reply 25 of 34
    hattighattig Posts: 860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    What you guys don't understand is that Apple is stuck with Intel ever since they committed to x86. Intel owns x86, AMD is licensing it (with the help of some court battles). ARM and PA Semi don't even have access to it. This means Apple is stuck with Intel, even if they go with AMD, since AMD also depends on Intel's instruction set. Apple has no choice but to stick with this decision because there's no way they can change directions so dramatically right now with a new OS written for a new instruction set and ask all their developers to re-deploy their code once again for a new instruction set.



    AMD and Intel have a cross-licensing agreement. They license x86 and AMD64 (x86-64, x64) technology to each other.



    At the moment Intel's CPUs are the best performance per dollar and best for sales (Windows compatibility via Boot Camp / Parallels / VMWare) hence they'll use it. There is no technical need holding them back from switching to another architecture, only marketing and third party application compatibility. As there's no technical need to switch because of the performance and other advantages, Apple will stay with x86 for at least a few more years - but only for the computers.



    ARM is perfect for Apple's mobile device needs, and I'm sure they'll be dragging it upwards throughout their line. Especially if they can badger Intel with that in order to obtain discounts. Intel announced 65% gross margins today, so there is plenty of room to barter there.
  • Reply 26 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    no

    intel begged apple for crumbs from its table



    and intel hit a grand slam



    look at apples sales



    your fanboy crack is what is the real stuupid face here . i guess german people have no sence of fun



    Oh yeh..would you please share some information that how intel begged Apple to use their chips. No one would mind expanding their business. Had Apple not gone with intel chips, they would not have secured whatever little part of the computer market that have currently. One more fact that Apple might have reinvented itself but they have a long way to go to capture a sizable portion of the computer market in order to profit intel's chip business.



    I like MacBooks as well, and in fact I own one. But I am not a stupid fanboy like you.



    Let me point your stupidity here. I currently live in Germany but it doesn't mean that I am a German. Now what should I say about your sense of humor and your shameless attempt to insult a whole nation and its people. Pathetic I guess.
  • Reply 27 of 34
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    1. Any third party that designs x86-compatible CPUs will need to license x86 from Intel first.



    2. Probably true, although AMD may still blow up on its own. It's a tricky situation, and I'd like to see Intel lose its monopoly like many people. Sometimes it seems this whole industry is patched together with lawsuits and court orders.



    3. I don't see how this is relevant, I never speculated on why Apple went with Intel. I'm only talking about the rather obvious fact that now that Apple has made the transition to x86, they are going to be stuck with it for quite a while because they could not possibly ask their developers to make yet another transition so soon.





    intel rules because their manufacturing operation is top notch. AMD has always had manufacturing problems.



    they use the development fabs in Oregon to work out manufacturing issues and then pass on the lessons learned to their other fabs. all the 32nm CPU's being produced now are being made in Oregon. AMD has always had one or two fabs, ATI blew up in their face which was a dumb merger and they had yield issues with the 45nm process. the reason Dell and HP don't use AMD is in bulk is that AMD can't promise them the numbers of chips they need if they were to sell more AMD computers.
  • Reply 28 of 34
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holywarrior007 View Post


    Oh yeh..would you please share some information that how intel begged Apple to use their chips. No one would mind expanding their business. Had Apple not gone with intel chips, they would not have secured whatever little part of the computer market that have currently. One more fact that Apple might have reinvented itself but they have a long way to go to capture a sizable portion of the computer market in order to profit intel's chip business.



    I like MacBooks as well, and in fact I own one. But I am not a stupid fanboy like you.



    Let me point your stupidity here. I currently live in Germany but it doesn't mean that I am a German. Now what should I say about your sense of humor and your shameless attempt to insult a whole nation and its people. Pathetic I guess.



    Cool it with the personal attacks.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    intel rules because their manufacturing operation is top notch. AMD has always had manufacturing problems.



    they use the development fabs in Oregon to work out manufacturing issues and then pass on the lessons learned to their other fabs. all the 32nm CPU's being produced now are being made in Oregon. AMD has always had one or two fabs, ATI blew up in their face which was a dumb merger and they had yield issues with the 45nm process. the reason Dell and HP don't use AMD is in bulk is that AMD can't promise them the numbers of chips they need if they were to sell more AMD computers.



    Also, Intel chips are more power friendly for the same performance in the mobile market. For that reason, I?d never buy an AMD chip for a notebook.



    Not sure about the server-side, but power saving are important to corporations. I think AMD still has some advantages over Intel in that market segment.
  • Reply 29 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Also, Intel chips are more power friendly for the same performance in the mobile market. For that reason, I’d never buy an AMD chip for a notebook.



    Not sure about the server-side, but power saving are important to corporations. I think AMD still has some advantages over Intel in that market segment.



    Power ultimately is related to manufacturing. And the person you responded to is correct, AMD lags there primarily. They're about a year behind Intel on manufacturing processes, and it hurts them in the power/heat comparison. This may change now that AMD's fabs have been spun off into their own company, GlobalFoundries, assuming GF is successful at finding non-AMD business and making the money to implement new processes faster.



    AMD also lacks the R&D to design and test new processors at the rate Intel achieves. They have good designs, they just don't have the money. It all comes back to $$$. Intel has it, AMD doesn't.
  • Reply 30 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    There is no technical need holding them back from switching to another architecture, only marketing and third party application compatibility. As there's no technical need to switch because of the performance and other advantages, Apple will stay with x86 for at least a few more years - but only for the computers.

    .



    You say that as if it's not a big deal...



    What is a computer used for, if not to run applications? Switching to a new platform would not only means that all the third party developers will have to transition, but all the first party applications will need to be reworked too, including the OS, all the utilities that run on it, and all the Apple-developed software for it. Apple just made this huge transition a few years back, do you really think they will be able to do it again so soon?
  • Reply 31 of 34
    Hello and sorry for interrupt the intelligent discussion is going on, I just registered yesterday and this is actually my first post. I bought a MacBook Pro 15' Monday the 11th Jan at my local Best Buy. After a week of enjoying the machine I read a rumor on youtube comments about a new MBP Model that would be showcased on Jan 27th.



    So I google-ed this rumor to find out how bogus / not-bogus could it be, and ended up in this user-mac forums, appleinsider, and for my surprise I see that there are actually two topics regarding the rumor, the intel Core i5 email thread that started the whole speculation over the internet and this mistake from intel thread.



    Since the Best Buy return policy allows me a window of 14 days I was thinking in doing so (8 days left from today), but now that I read this "mistake from intel email thread" I may not do it, and to be honest I'm confused whether I should or should not return it, I know that in the computer world a refresh is a normal thing to happen, but a "processor" refresh is a dramatic-critical one in my opinion.



    So now that intel itself clarified it was a mistake should I stick with my new MBP ? or it will really happen on Jan 27 ?



    Again sorry for interrupting the discussion but I really need your honest opinion.



    Regards,
  • Reply 32 of 34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Becko View Post


    Hello and sorry for interrupt the intelligent discussion is going on, I just registered yesterday and this is actually my first post. I bought a MacBook Pro 15' Monday the 11th Jan at my local Best Buy. After a week of enjoying the machine I read a rumor on youtube comments about a new MBP Model that would be showcased on Jan 27th.



    So I google-ed this rumor to find out how bogus / not-bogus could it be, and ended up in this user-mac forums, appleinsider, and for my surprise I see that there are actually two topics regarding the rumor, the intel Core i5 email thread that started the whole speculation over the internet and this mistake from intel thread.



    Since the Best Buy return policy allows me a window of 14 days I was thinking in doing so (8 days left from today), but now that I read this "mistake from intel email thread" I may not do it, and to be honest I'm confused whether I should or should not return it, I know that in the computer world a refresh is a normal thing to happen, but a "processor" refresh is a dramatic-critical one in my opinion.



    So now that intel itself clarified it was a mistake should I stick with my new MBP ? or it will really happen on Jan 27 ?



    Again sorry for interrupting the discussion but I really need your honest opinion.



    Regards,



    The answer is no one really knows for sure, and those who do know are not allowed to say anything. So new models are possible, but uncertain. If you can return your laptop without a restocking fee and can live without a laptop for a couple of weeks, though, then why not return it? If nothing comes out before the end of the month you can just buy the computer again. But if there's a restocking fee or if you really need a laptop meanwhile then it may not be worth it to wait on a rumor.
  • Reply 33 of 34
    Well actually Best Buy policy for notebooks returns has a 15% restocking fee, ... mmm, I think I'm gonna stick with my current MBP model, I know anything could happen though, but if the same source that started this rumor, the intel internal email, is now saying it was a "mistake" ... I guess we'll have to wait till Jan 27th.
  • Reply 34 of 34
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Becko View Post


    Well actually Best Buy policy for notebooks returns has a 15% restocking fee, ... mmm, I think I'm gonna stick with my current MBP model, I know anything could happen though, but if the same source that started this rumor, the intel internal email, is now saying it was a "mistake" ... I guess we'll have to wait till Jan 27th.



    The best thing to do when buying an Apple product is to look at a buyer?s guide, like the one at MacRumors. They tell you useful information about the average time between HW updates and times since the last update.
    As you can see, the average for the MBP is 200 days and they are about a month over that mean timeframe.



    There are other clues, but they take a little more in-depth knowledge. Like Intel now up to speed with Core-i3, i5 and 32nm Core-i7 processors which also tell us it?s about time for Apple to issue updates. This is Apple so waiting a month to work out some kinks or to delay for a more opportune time that doesn?t conflict with other updates is in their nature.



    I think we may see MBP updates this week if they only do a basic performance bump. If we don?t, it becomes more likely that Apple will release new MBPs with some major changes. Still, nothing is certain.
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