The inside track on Apple's tablet: a history of tablet computing

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  • Reply 181 of 200
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Mod week? Bigger than usaual? Please explain?



    mid-week. iPhone autocorrect \
  • Reply 182 of 200
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    mid-week. iPhone autocorrect \



    Ok, ok. But what about the bigger than usual bit?
  • Reply 183 of 200
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Sure it's not!



    Yep, it sure is. It has a capacitance touch sensor and a digitizer. The Wacom one I believe.



    Quote:

    You claimed device independence, which is obviously not the case.



    No, I claimed that convertible tablets are tablets. Not sure what the heck you're saying here. It's not so much moving the goalposts as playing an entirely different sport.



    In any case the wacom multitouch digitizer is pretty standard.



    PQWindow is selling a touch screen device and some software. How is that any more device independent than Fujitsu that uses the MS' SDK vs PQWindow SDK? It isn't. It's worse since it IS tied to one set of hardware. At least the MS SDK can work with multiple devices, just only on Windows.



    The last (and only) time I looked at PQWindow the SDK wasn't impressive. It grabbed input and returned the gesture it detected. The reference app was C#.



    TouchLib or Snowflake is what you're looking for for a (more or less) device independent, (more or less) cross platform SDK.



    TouchLib is more FITR oriented but Snowflake has 3M, Wacom and other capacitive touch support out of box. Given that it support Wacom I'm going to bet the Fujitsu just works with Snowflake.



    Quote:

    This is why the guy starting to blabber about the experience and failing on practical task never gets job in my team.



    Your team must suck if you only have newbs. If you're targeting PQWindow you're a real newb. The market has changed a lot given there are now many multitouch digitizers from the big names like Wacom, the MS SDK is out,etc. Cool in 2009. Overtaken By Events by 2010. PQWindow based solutions in 2010? Stupid.



    Quote:

    Just care to read ivan.rnn01's posts. They've already explained everything, which you are to understand about where Apple will excel. So you can not predict what I will or will not understand. I'm just considering matters, which you haven't yet thought about.



    Talking about yourself in the 3rd person is often a sign of mental instability or excessive ego.



    I'm going to guess you're some techy friend of his that can spell multi-touch or something. In which case his "big guns" has turned out to be a pea-shooter.



    Oh, and I'll clue you in. Some of the widely seen Multi-Touch demos on YouTube has some of my code in it.
  • Reply 184 of 200
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Guess what dude? Apple just annouced that Jan 27th will indeed hold and event. They want to show their "Latest Creation".



    Well everyone, It's on!!!!!!!



    LET THE INSanITY BEGIN !!!!!!!
  • Reply 185 of 200
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Ok, ok. But what about the bigger than usual bit?



    I think the extra long notice might be to get even more reporters than usual, because the event will be bigger than usual. Historically, Apple has the event on a Tuesday and announces it the Wednesday prior, as I recall.
  • Reply 186 of 200
    So, if Apple does rebirth the Newton, something that many loyal Newton users have long longed for, should we, after being left high-and-dry all this time trust them? It really would not have taken that much to have kept the Newton's compatible with MacOS X, but Apple chose to cut loyal Newton users off at the knees and to cause them to loose their entire investment (both as users and developers) in the platform. They also could have open sourced the Newton project (as well as OpenDoc) and allowed users to have maintained the technology themselves. Instead they locked it up in a box and let it wither. Will Apple do the same thing again if the tablet isn't an immediate success? Trust is a big issue in consumer relations and it was something that Apple used to have an excellent track record for. Starting with their cancellation of existing, though vital, technologies with the return of Jobs, that trust record began to deteriorate. So where do we go from here?
  • Reply 187 of 200
    I don't know why anyone would still be harping on about the Newton. I bought one, and still own it -- but I got over its termination a long, long time ago. Where we've gone since then is up, up, up. So if we know anything at all about the new iProduct (and we don't know much) we have to know that it's not going to be Newton Redux.
  • Reply 188 of 200
    Daniel,



    How long has it been since I told you what a good job you are doing with your website and how much I enjoy your articles, even those published on Appleinsider?



    Well perhaps too long, but you haven't been as prolific lately .......



    Keep up the good work ......







    I recognised the name Mike Elgan, but forgot from where, so I unfortunately clicked on:



    http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...ource=rss_news



    before I remembered that you had warned us about this guy before:



    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/0...on-the-iphone/







    Key point of Elgonic's story is this:



    "In business circles, one of the most miraculous success stories of the previous century is the story of Starbucks. The company earned its legendary status not by invention of a new product, but by the rare transformation of human culture........................ Starbucks transformed a generic commodity into a brand-name experience that people seek out. But the miraculous bit is that they changed American (and later, global) culture.

    "Coffee is still coffee. They didn't change the product as much as they changed the customer.



    "Consumer electronics companies face a similar challenge.............. getting consumers to accept the change."







    I am sure you can explain this better than me, but how wrong can one person be?







    YES, coffee is still coffee. YES, Starbucks didn't change coffee as such, but NO, they didn't change the customer and WRONG to think of coffee as a "generic commodity" or even as a single commodity.



    In fact, what Starbucks did was take what had previously been viewed as a generic product, a hot brown liquid, and improved what made it SPECIAL, the coffee flavour. Then they sold the better product, or rather range of products since once you can tell the difference there are varieties of coffee, at premium prices to discerning customers.



    Starbucks, together with other coffee shops, didn't "change the customer", they changed the product they offered to the customer, and the customer learned to appreciate that change and recognise its value. Customers were prepared to pay more for the improved value.







    Elgone goes on to postulate that, just as Starbucks managed to hoodwink customers into paying more for a cup of coffee that was basically the same thing as the previous hot brown liquid, Apple managed to hoodwink customers into paying more for an iPhone that was basically the same as the previous mobile phones with a bit of extra brand-name. Similarly, thanks to a re-education process worthy of Stalin and Kim Jong Il, Apple will gradually lead us to accept other things that ordinary people never thought they wanted but now could never live without, like Starbucks coffee instead of hot brown liquid, iTunes instead of plastic CD's, on-screen keyboards, and finally Apps that you can download.



    All this in support of the idea that even though the next Apple gadget will be better, it won't gain acceptance until Apple has somehow brainwashed it's customers into accepting something they would otherwise reject.





    Where does all this lead? Perhaps it's an escape clause: if the next Apple gadget proves to be successful, it will be proof that Mike Elgan was absolutely correct in predicting how Apple would condition its customers to accept the new reality. If it fails, well of course even if the product was good, Apple didn't brainwash enough customers ...........



    Whatever the outcome, no-one is likely to go back and point out that it was Mike Elgan and the clients he represented who were really trying to "change the customer" by making them believe that inferior products were acceptable.



    Although I suspect that you will do a valiant job trying to remind them ..........
  • Reply 189 of 200
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    As another blog post said somewhere, Apple will teach us why we need this device and the rest of the industry will follow suit. Just like the Mac. Just like the iPod. Just like the iPhone.



    Just like the MacBook Air?



    The Air DOES NOT SELL. I work for one of the largest Apple Specialists in the country. They don't sell at any of our locations. And why would it? It's $300 more expensive than the 13" MacBook Pro and is only 1.5lbs lighter. Who would want to pay more money for fewer features?



    My point is that you shouldn't, no matter how long you've followed Apple, declare exactly what will or will not happen. If Apple's history teaches us anything it's that we can't predict what they are going to do. Ever.
  • Reply 190 of 200
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    This is really unlikely given that the Apple product with the closest form factor to the tablet right now (the Air) has only one USB port.



    And you don't think they will view the Air as a learning experience? Over 50% of Apples sales are portables (Macbook, MBAir, MBPro) and the Air has consistently been dead last as far as sales. And sure it's a niche market and sure it was never going to be their #1 product but based on the sales figures I find when I go looking the Air hasn't sold the way Apple wanted it to. Based on the friends, family and customers I talk to everyday no one wants one because the the lack of connectivity.



    What I'm trying to get at is I think that a couple of USB ports and, since VESA made it a standard, a Mini-Display Port aren't out of the question.
  • Reply 191 of 200
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by opnsource View Post


    And you don't think they will view the Air as a learning experience? Over 50% of Apples sales are portables (Macbook, MBAir, MBPro) and the Air has consistently been dead last as far as sales. And sure it's a niche market and sure it was never going to be their #1 product but based on the sales figures I find when I go looking the Air hasn't sold the way Apple wanted it to. Based on the friends, family and customers I talk to everyday no one wants one because the the lack of connectivity.



    What I'm trying to get at is I think that a couple of USB ports and, since VESA made it a standard, a Mini-Display Port aren't out of the question.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by opnsource View Post


    Just like the MacBook Air?



    The Air DOES NOT SELL. I work for one of the largest Apple Specialists in the country. They don't sell at any of our locations. And why would it? It's $300 more expensive than the 13" MacBook Pro and is only 1.5lbs lighter. Who would want to pay more money for fewer features?



    My point is that you shouldn't, no matter how long you've followed Apple, declare exactly what will or will not happen. If Apple's history teaches us anything it's that we can't predict what they are going to do. Ever.



    Macbook Air is high-end, niche, premium. Apple can improve on it anytime they want, but they'll sit on the high profit margins and enjoy virtually (still) the sexiest ultrathin+light laptop out there.



    How many Adamos does Dell sell? Probably not much.



    The Tablet, is a whole different thing because the price range would be in between iPhone and MacBook.



    I predict, the Tablet is targeted to sell less units than iPhone but close to the number of MacBook/Pros?



    Starting of at maybe 1-2 million units a month globally, and Apple will refine/ adapt as needed over 2011 to 2012.



    It would be a bit of an experiment, but a serious experiment, perhaps.



    Based on what we know Tablets would only start shipping in April to June so things will only get rolling 2nd half of this year, especially as developers and content providers need time to start rolling out all the apps and content.



    Remember the announcement should be a lot about "iPhone" OS 4.0 which is Apple defining in this decade, how they see the mobile(including tablet) space evolving.



    In some regards the Tablet is not about huge numbers like 20-30 million a year or anything like that (though it could turn out to be that). It is about rounding out the complete Apple product portfolio and positioning them in 2010 to face the new decade in whichever way things evolve. People may stick more to phone form factors. Or they might like Tablets instead of netbooks if Apple does it right. Laptops could go thinner and lighter though given CPU/GPU/Chipset domination by Intel, I don't see too much exciting stuff happening on the mainstream/higher-end laptop space in 2010 << For laptops its a matter of how aggressive Apple will push ATI 40nm 5-series graphics and BluRay, 1080p on 15", SSDs, etc.



    Apple with the Tablet will basically have staked out all territory reasonably available to it for 2010 in both physical and digital (iTunes Store publications) realms.
  • Reply 192 of 200
    The important point about the MacBook Air that cannot be understood unless you use it is this:



    It is not just thinner and lighter, it is thin enough and light enough that you can pick it up, easily, with one hand.



    Why does this make a difference? Because it means you can PASS IT AROUND. Remember all those times where someone looks over your shoulder to see what you are looking at on your PC, or you send them a URL? With the MacBook Air you just pass them the computer to look at.



    The supposed Tablet will do this. When it does, the MacBook Air will be seen as merely Apple "practicing" at making something thin and light enough to "pass around".
  • Reply 193 of 200
    There're solid reasons to believe Apple will only release slate (tablet) version of the product --- otherwise 10" display tethered to cramped keyboard means net-book without alternatives. Apple clearly said: we're not gonna make net-books.



    True tablet won't eat in the laptop market. Notebooks are far more powerful (processors, memory, storage, connectivity options). They run the whole spectrum of full-featured applications and best when you need to do some traditional computing job, which requires keyboard and screen pointer. You put laptop on a surface (well, on your laps) before doing anything serious.



    Tablet is indeed gonna excel and beat all notebooks as presentation (either to bearer self --- reader form factor, or to others) tool. But it won't run full-weight versions of applications and won't allow usual computer connectivity capabilities.
  • Reply 194 of 200
    What a fantastic read that was, thanks Dan. A point has to be made though somewhere in the article about the prematurity of tablet devices, say 10 years back, in terms of plain hardware processing power and lcd tec, I mean if you don't have 3g to sync over how can you browse the web or check your email, that tec wasn't there simply put, and that's what turns a newton to an iphone, that and or course the os improvements.
  • Reply 195 of 200
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    There're solid reasons to believe Apple will only release slate (tablet) version of the product --- otherwise 10" display tethered to cramped keyboard means net-book without alternatives. Apple clearly said: we're not gonna make net-books.



    Which doesn't mean that the next MBA wont also be a tablet at the 13" from factor. It depends on the hinge design and the additional weight and thickness of the digitizer. Doable although the hinge design is the trickiest to make meet Apple standards of design.



    Quote:

    True tablet won't eat in the laptop market. Notebooks are far more powerful (processors, memory, storage, connectivity options). They run the whole spectrum of full-featured applications and best when you need to do some traditional computing job, which requires keyboard and screen pointer. You put laptop on a surface (well, on your laps) before doing anything serious.



    Convertible tablets I think is likely to replace the laptop even on the Windows side but especially on the Mac side. That's the only real way to preserve margins against ever cheaper windows notebooks...fast becoming a commodity item.



    The slate will also help in that regard...as long as you don't need to do a lot of typing. But Apple will strictly limit any cheaper slate from ever cannibalizing higher ASP macbook/macbook pro tablets.



    Quote:

    Tablet is indeed gonna excel and beat all notebooks as presentation (either to bearer self --- reader form factor, or to others) tool. But it won't run full-weight versions of applications and won't allow usual computer connectivity capabilities.



    Except that they already do today from the modbook (mac) to windows tablets. The key has been no one has really made a MBA like tablet. They either have thin and light slates or larger convertibles. A thin and light convertible I think would do very well with the upcoming OS support from Windows 7 and I expect from OSX.



    At 10" the upcoming slate is a playback device. It's true that a 10" keyboard is suboptimal hence the move toward 12" netbooks despite Intel's limitations. That's also why I see the 13" MBA as being an excellent convertible candidate. 12" would be better but they probably need that extra inch to make it as thin as it is.
  • Reply 196 of 200
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Vinea, Gazoobee has perfectly defended my point on the classification of convertibles, which she (I strongly believe) has chosen to side with, yesterday. It's made all crystal clear there.



    As for tablet capabilities, it's in particular just because they try to run everything, they fail as a product. Apple product would hardly run all Mac OS applications including Terminal.
  • Reply 197 of 200
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Vinea, Gazoobee has perfectly defended my point on the classification of convertibles, which she (I strongly believe) has chosen to side with, yesterday. It's made all crystal clear there.



    As for tablet capabilities, it's in particular just because they try to run everything, they fail as a product. Apple product would hardly run all Mac OS applications including Terminal.



    Who where? A link would be nice. Unless you're referring to the very weird post above about device independence that has zero to do with the classifications of convertibles as tablets. I guess that English is a secondary language but the post bordered on surreal.



    There is also no reason to believe that with better OS level support that OSX will not evolve all the Apple laptops into convertible tablets. There are a myriad of desktop applications that are well suited to direct manipulation vs WIMP metaphor. Most of the iLife suite comes to mind.



    Besides, there's no reason you couldn't use terminal on the tablet given Apple is likely to provide a virtual keyboard. But given it's rarely used on the desktop OSX there's no real reason to use it on the tablet either except for some unix junkies looking for a bash fix.
  • Reply 198 of 200
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I think last night I dreamt of using some kind of Apple Tablet. Can't be sure. This is getting insane. LOL
  • Reply 199 of 200
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,491member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    so true.



    but some of us come from the other direction. if the new iPad/whatever were just an enlarged Touch i'd buy it, since that is all i absolutely need. and that's true for enough consumers that it would be a commercial success. i think it is very safe to assume it will do everything the Touch can.



    but most everyone else is hoping/demanding a breakthrough product that goes a lot beyond that. reportedly, even Steve J. so the genuine debate revolves around what would be a real "breakthrough." and what would excite/change the marketplace like the iPhone did.



    wish i knew. gotta wait two weeks.



    Nearly a year after it was introduced I have been reading all these hundreds of predictions of what the new Apple tablet will be like. You are the only one who predicted it correctly in every way. You got the name iPad right. You said it would be like a large iPod Touch which was absolutely correct. You said that this is really all people need and if they go with the large iPod Touch design it will be a commercial success. How right you were!! As if this writing Apple has sold 15 million iPads and may sell 50 million iPad 2's when is released. Congratulations on being the only one to predict the iPad perfectly!!!
  • Reply 200 of 200
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post


    Nearly a year after it was introduced I have been reading all these hundreds of predictions of what the new Apple tablet will be like. You are the only one who predicted it correctly in every way. You got the name iPad right. You said it would be like a large iPod Touch which was absolutely correct. You said that this is really all people need and if they go with the large iPod Touch design it will be a commercial success. How right you were!! As if this writing Apple has sold 15 million iPads and may sell 50 million iPad 2's when is released. Congratulations on being the only one to predict the iPad perfectly!!!



    Bizarre \
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