I agree that the display is one of the more important factors on this device, and it would be nice if Apple were working closely with an upcoming OLED maker to produce screens for this device by its shipping date in May. I say May cause I say May.
Who at Apple said it was going to be sensibly priced?
Uh, the people who are interested in seeing it SELL.
They aren't stupid at Apple. Unlike you, they realize this is not a smartphone or an iPod or a Mac. They also realize that Tablets have failed for their entire existence. Unlike smartphones or computers or mp3 players.
Truly, only an absolute fool would predict this thing to cost anywhere near a thousand dollars. It would sit on shelves as people stare at it and think, are they nuts? Yes, they would have to be.
You guys are dreaming if you think it's going to be OLED. Apple is more likely to introduce OLED to the iphone first.
Price and Cost.
Do you all forget that Apple doesn't jump on the newest technology right away? Look at their blu-ray support for proof of that.
What Apple does best is take existing technology and repackage it with amazing software at a profitable price. That's how they run their business.
This will be LCD and you'll all love it because it will be 720p on a 10" multi-touch, multi-gesture, stylus supported screen with bright colors and pretty software.
You guys are dreaming if you think it's going to be OLED. Apple is more likely to introduce OLED to the iphone first.
Price and Cost.
Do you all forget that Apple doesn't jump on the newest technology right away? Look at their blu-ray support for proof of that.
What Apple does best is take existing technology and repackage it with amazing software at a profitable price. That's how they run their business.
This will be LCD and you'll all love it because it will be 720p on a 10" multi-touch, multi-gesture, stylus supported screen with bright colors and pretty software.
By 2013 you'll see OLED or something better used.
Pretty much. The eve of a new Apple product always brings out the wild speculation, wherein Apple advances the state of the hardware art with bleeding edge implementations. Which they pretty much never do.
The one area that Apple seems dedicated to pushing the envelope a bit is with interconnect standards. They got USB on the iMac before it was widely used on PCs, they got gigabit ethernet on their pro towers early on, they they've seemingly tired every video output scheme available, and if I'm recalling correctly at certain points various Airport base stations have been a bit ahead of the curve on WiFi speed.
But busting out a 10" OLED screen on a mass market device? Not a chance in hell.
No screen technology that relies principally on the emission of light and is powered by tiny batteries is going to be able to compete directly with the Sun. Not OLED or TFT LCD.
It's interesting that almost every review of an AMOLED screen device mentions how bad it is outside, and most mention that it's worse that an LCD, usually mentioning the iPhone's.
It's my experience as well. I'm not happy about that as I've been a big supporter of OLEDs going back years.
But they still have problems.
Right now, it's a wash between AMOLEDs and good LCD's as both have their strong and weak points. What matters most to one person may not matter to another.
If an OLED TV costs $5000 then a tablet is only going to be somewhere north of that figure.
That's the price of two MacBook Pros. Apple products are expensive but good value for money. A $5000-6000 tablet would not be good value for money. It would be commercial suicide even for Apple. Can you imagine how fast Apple's stock would tank if they announced a tablet for that price?
I don't see it being that high. The Sony 11" lists for $2,500. They were never expecting to sell a lot of them as an 11" Tv isn't very useful to many people.
While I'm not that price sensitive, I won't spend $2,000 for a tablet.
But Apple intends to sell a lot of tablets. If enough screens are available, and that seems to be a problem, then they could price it lower, possibly the $2,000 or so we see bandied about.
So are the vast majority of LCD's. A sunlight readable OLED screen can happen, they just need to light up the pixels enough to deal with the sunlight. Like on LCD's a bigger pixel might help.
But they can't do that yet. That's the problem. Maybe soon, but not yet.
Quote:
Saturation isn't the cause of of a poor color rendition. Color pop and color accuracy kinda go hand in hand. For your creative side saturated colors that mimic real life are exactly what you are looking for. Well I should say are what I'm looking for, which highlights the different needs.
Over saturated colors are indeed a color problem. Stores like that "pop" too. It sells Tv's, but hopefully when they get home, people turn it down. When colors are over saturated, they don't mimic real life. Most real life color isn't that saturated. Flesh tones certainly aren't orange!
Quote:
In the case of the tablet if it can be properly calibrated then groovy. Otherwise it is not a machine we even need to discuss in the sense of serious color reproduction.
Hopefully. But if they get it close, that would be fine. It's not intended as a professional color tool.
Quote:
I'm not sure why everybody is focused on AMOLEDs. There are other technologies beyond the Active Matrix set. Ignoring that though I think it is a mistake to look at a hand set OLED screen and thing that will represent what is available in larger formats. Especially in the case of Zune which appears to have a standard OLED display built for a panel tech that has been around for awhile. If Apple does go the OLED route I fully expect them to introduce a new technology.
I don't know of any "new" AMOLED tech. It's all just small improvements in efficiency, lifetime etc. I'm hoping that Apple waits until it gets what it wants rather than jumping in with somthing average.
Quote:
Of course OLED might not be designed in then we have the probability of a LCD screen. This is still suboptimal for some but there is also huge potential with the latest LCD tech. Finally they might introduce something totally different in the way of display tech.
Dave
Probably an LED. The other tech available now just doesn't look very good, and has other issues.
Efficiency doesn't exactly mean the quantity of consumed energy. It's rather about how well available energy is utilised (as compared to competing devices in the same test under equal conditions).
I understand what it means. The result is that the screen must be mostly black to use little energy, because efficiency is so so.
Quote:
First, consumers used to know minimum about future Apple products. It's not too much important what they all want at that moment.
Second, upon having released 3 generations of iPhone Apple is still not paying any good attention to iPhone users complaining about the battery life. This point holds in each next version wish list.
What is not understandable about the product already known and tested by consumers is their priorities in development.
You don't have any idea about what Apple is paying attention to. iPhone battery life is pretty good. There is no phone out that has much better life when all uses are considered. You can't take one aspect and just hold that one up.
Quote:
I tell you when I see specs and how device is supposed to be used. Secrecy is perfect; we even can't tell the class of the device for sure.
You made a comment that you didn't think Apple would have good battery life. It's a fair question for you. You can't say that Apple won't have good battery life without telling us what that battery life should be, in your opinion. You raised the issue, not me.
Oh, I didn't want to tell you, I must respect my hosts, you know... But I have to admit I use unobtanium cells. You just can't buy such a classy thing in the States or anywhere else.
This is ugly and tasteless, but this is kinda tradition of the board, I should warn the counterpart (why anyway?) I have several Magic Mouses in my household, I did researches in their behavior, which you just fail to imagine, and I know about them so much more than you, that there's hardly the point to discuss.
Of course, I can provide the evidence, but I have to be sure you've got a solid background to discuss (expected me to bring evidence for you to judge,eh? sorry, mate, we've already got good guys who would judge).
I agree that the display is one of the more important factors on this device, and it would be nice if Apple were working closely with an upcoming OLED maker to produce screens for this device by its shipping date in May. I say May cause I say May.
But apparently, there is currently only one manufacturer who is making them in mass quantity, Samsung. LG, Apple's display supplier in the bigger sizes, is apparently only making a fraction of Samsung's 150,000 a month.
You made a comment that you didn't think Apple would have good battery life. It's a fair question for you. You can't say that Apple won't have good battery life without telling us what that battery life should be, in your opinion. You raised the issue, not me.
Except for 3G talk time comparisons to CDMA phones, which is expected do to inherent network differences, the iPhone still beats other smart phones in real world tests. I wish there were more independent tests of battery time.
Except for 3G talk time comparisons to CDMA phones, which is expected do to inherent network differences, the iPhone still beats other smart phones in real world tests. I wish there were more independent tests of battery time.
The iPhone battery life is pretty good.
It will never be good enough to satisfy everyone. Nothing ever is.
He's already criticising the tablet's battery life. I suppose when I showed the five hours for the Joo Joo, that set him back, as did the 12 to 14 hours for the cpu/gpu weak B&N with mostly a small e-ink screen, and color strip at the bottom.
While I'd love 12 hours, I'd be happy at 8, and satisfied at 6.
It will never be good enough to satisfy everyone. Nothing ever is.
He's already criticising the tablet's battery life. I suppose when I showed the five hours for the Joo Joo, that set him back, as did the 12 to 14 hours for the cpu/gpu weak B&N with mostly a small e-ink screen, and color strip at the bottom.
While I'd love 12 hours, I'd be happy at 8, and satisfied at 6.
Some of these tablets are quoting over a hundred hours. I think Notion Ink with Pixel Qi is one of them. I like the idea of it but I have doubts of the quality of the colour video aspect and sicne we?ve heard nothing about an ?undisclosed company orders x-many displays or invests in little known company? the chance of them using that tech seems slim to none. I think 12 hours of actual use would be great on a 10? colour display with at least 720p and good brightness.
Some of these tablets are quoting over a hundred hours. I think Pixel Qi is one of them. I like the idea of it but I have doubts of the quality of the colour video aspect and sicne we?ve heard nothing about an ?undisclosed company orders x-many displays or invests in little known company? the chance of them using that tech seems slim to none. I think 12 hours of actual use would be great on a 10? colour display with at least 720p and good brightness.
I've seen a Pixel Qi screen, and I can say that it needs more work.
Yes, it's color, but it's terrible color. Weak color with very poor saturation. The image is, to be nice, bland. I don't think that anyone here would like it. It looks like a very undersaturated, washed out transparency.
Comments
Who at Apple said it was going to be sensibly priced?
Uh, the people who are interested in seeing it SELL.
They aren't stupid at Apple. Unlike you, they realize this is not a smartphone or an iPod or a Mac. They also realize that Tablets have failed for their entire existence. Unlike smartphones or computers or mp3 players.
Truly, only an absolute fool would predict this thing to cost anywhere near a thousand dollars. It would sit on shelves as people stare at it and think, are they nuts? Yes, they would have to be.
$300 w/ 2 year Sprint contract.
$600 - $800 depending on storage, WiFi only.
Any other prediction is a joke.
No, eating my hate was for the name.
I stand corrected.
I find the phrase "No, eating my hate was for the name" oddly compelling. Like something out of Beckett.
He’s been waiting for the tablet longer than Vladimir and Estragon(?) waited for Godot.
Price and Cost.
Do you all forget that Apple doesn't jump on the newest technology right away? Look at their blu-ray support for proof of that.
What Apple does best is take existing technology and repackage it with amazing software at a profitable price. That's how they run their business.
This will be LCD and you'll all love it because it will be 720p on a 10" multi-touch, multi-gesture, stylus supported screen with bright colors and pretty software.
By 2013 you'll see OLED or something better used.
You guys are dreaming if you think it's going to be OLED. Apple is more likely to introduce OLED to the iphone first.
Price and Cost.
Do you all forget that Apple doesn't jump on the newest technology right away? Look at their blu-ray support for proof of that.
What Apple does best is take existing technology and repackage it with amazing software at a profitable price. That's how they run their business.
This will be LCD and you'll all love it because it will be 720p on a 10" multi-touch, multi-gesture, stylus supported screen with bright colors and pretty software.
By 2013 you'll see OLED or something better used.
Pretty much. The eve of a new Apple product always brings out the wild speculation, wherein Apple advances the state of the hardware art with bleeding edge implementations. Which they pretty much never do.
The one area that Apple seems dedicated to pushing the envelope a bit is with interconnect standards. They got USB on the iMac before it was widely used on PCs, they got gigabit ethernet on their pro towers early on, they they've seemingly tired every video output scheme available, and if I'm recalling correctly at certain points various Airport base stations have been a bit ahead of the curve on WiFi speed.
But busting out a 10" OLED screen on a mass market device? Not a chance in hell.
No screen technology that relies principally on the emission of light and is powered by tiny batteries is going to be able to compete directly with the Sun. Not OLED or TFT LCD.
It's interesting that almost every review of an AMOLED screen device mentions how bad it is outside, and most mention that it's worse that an LCD, usually mentioning the iPhone's.
It's my experience as well. I'm not happy about that as I've been a big supporter of OLEDs going back years.
But they still have problems.
Right now, it's a wash between AMOLEDs and good LCD's as both have their strong and weak points. What matters most to one person may not matter to another.
If an OLED TV costs $5000 then a tablet is only going to be somewhere north of that figure.
That's the price of two MacBook Pros. Apple products are expensive but good value for money. A $5000-6000 tablet would not be good value for money. It would be commercial suicide even for Apple. Can you imagine how fast Apple's stock would tank if they announced a tablet for that price?
I don't see it being that high. The Sony 11" lists for $2,500. They were never expecting to sell a lot of them as an 11" Tv isn't very useful to many people.
While I'm not that price sensitive, I won't spend $2,000 for a tablet.
But Apple intends to sell a lot of tablets. If enough screens are available, and that seems to be a problem, then they could price it lower, possibly the $2,000 or so we see bandied about.
So are the vast majority of LCD's. A sunlight readable OLED screen can happen, they just need to light up the pixels enough to deal with the sunlight. Like on LCD's a bigger pixel might help.
But they can't do that yet. That's the problem. Maybe soon, but not yet.
Saturation isn't the cause of of a poor color rendition. Color pop and color accuracy kinda go hand in hand. For your creative side saturated colors that mimic real life are exactly what you are looking for. Well I should say are what I'm looking for, which highlights the different needs.
Over saturated colors are indeed a color problem. Stores like that "pop" too. It sells Tv's, but hopefully when they get home, people turn it down. When colors are over saturated, they don't mimic real life. Most real life color isn't that saturated. Flesh tones certainly aren't orange!
In the case of the tablet if it can be properly calibrated then groovy. Otherwise it is not a machine we even need to discuss in the sense of serious color reproduction.
Hopefully. But if they get it close, that would be fine. It's not intended as a professional color tool.
I'm not sure why everybody is focused on AMOLEDs. There are other technologies beyond the Active Matrix set. Ignoring that though I think it is a mistake to look at a hand set OLED screen and thing that will represent what is available in larger formats. Especially in the case of Zune which appears to have a standard OLED display built for a panel tech that has been around for awhile. If Apple does go the OLED route I fully expect them to introduce a new technology.
I don't know of any "new" AMOLED tech. It's all just small improvements in efficiency, lifetime etc. I'm hoping that Apple waits until it gets what it wants rather than jumping in with somthing average.
Of course OLED might not be designed in then we have the probability of a LCD screen. This is still suboptimal for some but there is also huge potential with the latest LCD tech. Finally they might introduce something totally different in the way of display tech.
Dave
Probably an LED. The other tech available now just doesn't look very good, and has other issues.
Efficiency doesn't exactly mean the quantity of consumed energy. It's rather about how well available energy is utilised (as compared to competing devices in the same test under equal conditions).
I understand what it means. The result is that the screen must be mostly black to use little energy, because efficiency is so so.
First, consumers used to know minimum about future Apple products. It's not too much important what they all want at that moment.
Second, upon having released 3 generations of iPhone Apple is still not paying any good attention to iPhone users complaining about the battery life. This point holds in each next version wish list.
What is not understandable about the product already known and tested by consumers is their priorities in development.
You don't have any idea about what Apple is paying attention to. iPhone battery life is pretty good. There is no phone out that has much better life when all uses are considered. You can't take one aspect and just hold that one up.
I tell you when I see specs and how device is supposed to be used. Secrecy is perfect; we even can't tell the class of the device for sure.
You made a comment that you didn't think Apple would have good battery life. It's a fair question for you. You can't say that Apple won't have good battery life without telling us what that battery life should be, in your opinion. You raised the issue, not me.
Oh, I didn't want to tell you, I must respect my hosts, you know... But I have to admit I use unobtanium cells. You just can't buy such a classy thing in the States or anywhere else.
This is ugly and tasteless, but this is kinda tradition of the board, I should warn the counterpart (why anyway?) I have several Magic Mouses in my household, I did researches in their behavior, which you just fail to imagine, and I know about them so much more than you, that there's hardly the point to discuss.
Of course, I can provide the evidence, but I have to be sure you've got a solid background to discuss (expected me to bring evidence for you to judge,eh? sorry, mate, we've already got good guys who would judge).
So, in other words, you've never used one.
I agree that the display is one of the more important factors on this device, and it would be nice if Apple were working closely with an upcoming OLED maker to produce screens for this device by its shipping date in May. I say May cause I say May.
But apparently, there is currently only one manufacturer who is making them in mass quantity, Samsung. LG, Apple's display supplier in the bigger sizes, is apparently only making a fraction of Samsung's 150,000 a month.
You made a comment that you didn't think Apple would have good battery life. It's a fair question for you. You can't say that Apple won't have good battery life without telling us what that battery life should be, in your opinion. You raised the issue, not me.
Except for 3G talk time comparisons to CDMA phones, which is expected do to inherent network differences, the iPhone still beats other smart phones in real world tests. I wish there were more independent tests of battery time.
Except for 3G talk time comparisons to CDMA phones, which is expected do to inherent network differences, the iPhone still beats other smart phones in real world tests. I wish there were more independent tests of battery time.
The iPhone battery life is pretty good.
It will never be good enough to satisfy everyone. Nothing ever is.
He's already criticising the tablet's battery life.
While I'd love 12 hours, I'd be happy at 8, and satisfied at 6.
The iPhone battery life is pretty good.
It will never be good enough to satisfy everyone. Nothing ever is.
He's already criticising the tablet's battery life.
While I'd love 12 hours, I'd be happy at 8, and satisfied at 6.
Some of these tablets are quoting over a hundred hours. I think Notion Ink with Pixel Qi is one of them. I like the idea of it but I have doubts of the quality of the colour video aspect and sicne we?ve heard nothing about an ?undisclosed company orders x-many displays or invests in little known company? the chance of them using that tech seems slim to none. I think 12 hours of actual use would be great on a 10? colour display with at least 720p and good brightness.
Some of these tablets are quoting over a hundred hours. I think Pixel Qi is one of them. I like the idea of it but I have doubts of the quality of the colour video aspect and sicne we?ve heard nothing about an ?undisclosed company orders x-many displays or invests in little known company? the chance of them using that tech seems slim to none. I think 12 hours of actual use would be great on a 10? colour display with at least 720p and good brightness.
I've seen a Pixel Qi screen, and I can say that it needs more work.
Yes, it's color, but it's terrible color. Weak color with very poor saturation. The image is, to be nice, bland. I don't think that anyone here would like it. It looks like a very undersaturated, washed out transparency.