it would be impossible for Apple to host all iTunes users content for on demand streaming, as suggested by the rumor. the total amount of global data would be some utterly humongous number. and why store millions of copies of the same song, etc.?
but it would be very straightforward to host users' iTunes library data and files metadata, a far far smaller amount of data. users' account info and purchase history is already stored in the iTunes cloud, this would just add some more. it would then be easy for iTunes to stream all content users purchased from the iTunes store anywhere with playlists and all that. As a free service. for up to five authorized devices, which is what Apple's deal with the content owners allows now (don't know if those contracts would count iPods/Phones or not).
that would be great for all portable Apple devices. and the iThing of course.
but storing or streaming iTunes content that users ripped from CD's or DVD's or got some other way would be impossible because there is no way to tell if users first acquired it legally. even passively hosting such files on MobileMe raises the same issue. so no way.
Call me old school if you want, but the primary fuction of my iPod is to play music. Yeah I have a couple of apps that seldom get any use. If I had an iPhone its primary purposes would be a phone and to play music so the added wifi/3g wouldn't matter much to me. Perhaps having 3G makes it more useful as you always have a connection but as far as just an iPod not iPhone I think cloud storage of my music files or links to stream them (however it works the result is the same) makes it much less appealing to keep updating every few years.
Are you arguing that you wouldn't need an iPod with this service because you could just stream music to your computer or that you would just be less inclined to upgrade your existing iPod?
I don't understand how streaming makes iPod less desirable for running, going to the gym, riding the bus, or going anywhere where you aren't tied to your computer and the internet.
I think this would be great. Of course I want my regular syncing to be local (not via the cloud), but it's good to have the online version accessible anywhere, and for access from other Macs.
I'd really like to have the same music folder, same photos, same applications, and same documents on any Mac I have a login on... movies are unnecessary. It'd be great if the iPhone or slate had those too (but tries to avoid living off online copies - too much data transfers!!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2
You would only have to upload songs not available on iTunes servers (assuming they will let you back up non-iTunes purchases).
Yes. Lala apparently does this - recognises your songs and enables access to equivalent online copies of them. If a song is not recognised it uploads it. I'd say it'll only use iTunes masters if you purchased the song from Apple, but for your CD rips it'll try to match your file to an identical one that's already uploaded by another user.
I figure if iTunes was able to automatically name your song when you imported it, it'll be very accurate with identifying the song. It would even hold copies at different bitrates, so you have access to a copy as you made it on your computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley
What about the approx. 20% of my audio tracks not found in the iTunes Store?
If they're in the CDDB it'd be fine. Otherwise it'd upload a copy of your track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
They can't even get the cover art right. I wouldn't expect them to get the track right every time either.
This also worries me. However, the CDDB used to identify CDs is different to iTunes catalog which identify the cover art which causes issues. So hopefully by not relating to iTunes catalog it'll be fine.
It may not be so accurate with pirated mp3s though.
To really work, they'll need to have extra checks that a song is the same as they think - perhaps means randomly selecting one part of the song and matching it against the online copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Object-X
Video too? Too bad it probably wont work with video. It sure seems a good answer to the managing video though. Just purchase video content and stream it, no backup, or media management issues. I would definitely purchase more TV shows and movies if this were the model.
I think if it's purchased video from iTunes, then this should be very easy and likely for Apple to offer. For personal, ripped or pirated video it's a no go (too much data, and too many piracy issues?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by machei
I used to do a radio show. I archived all my shows to MP3. <snip> if they were downloaded we'd be talking multiple gigs of information that would be shared with no one but me. Seems a lot to store just for little 'ol me.
Every user will have some unique content, probably Apple will just average that out so they can offer a "simple" service for everyone. So yes you'd cost Apple more, where I'd cost Apple less, but we're both seeing our whole libraries and don't have to think about it.
Either that or Apple could make a limit - eg: 300GB library - and still average that out by assuming most users will not have unique content. This then allows a premium service for bigger users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machei
The thing I'd find cool about this is that if I rip my CDs in lossless, if it was indexed in 'the cloud'....
They might even disallow certain usage. Or give lossless users access to a 256Kbps version of their music. Syncing a home iTunes via "Back to My Mac" with work iTunes might make more sense in some situations like yours.
...left me with the impression that it would automatically copy my stuff to the cloud. Now that I understand the limitations of it I think it is even more useless than before when I just thought it was overly invasive to my privacy.
Were you saying that the service was useless because it would upload your private tracks so they're available to you online - and that was an invasion of privacy?
But now you are saying the service is useless because it won't upload your unique tracks so they're available to you online?
I may have misunderstood. What are you saying you would actually find good?
Although Lala would make your own tracks just available to you, I imagine there could be times where somehow your unique content is identified with something incorrectly, and someone would hear your unique content. Apparently Lala did incorrectly identify songs at times.
This system needs to have good cross checks before saying 2 song files are identical. Actually, if they work on the SONG FILE being identical, rather than just trying to make sure the SONG is the same, they'd have to use more storage space but it would avoid song recognition issues.
Too bad it probably wont work with video. It sure seems a good answer to the managing video though. Just purchase video content and stream it, no backup, or media management issues. I would definitely purchase more TV shows and movies if this were the model.
that will depend on the studios and frankly at this point I don't see it happening.
as for the music thing, it's non news. they are basically describing lala as it is now. the only 'new' bit is the idea that uploading would be a simple click of the button similar to the whole genius thing. but is anyone not expecting such a thing (that and perhaps a way to link an old lala account to your apple id)
What about the approx. 20% of my audio tracks not found in the iTunes Store?
If the service is free then the cloud service might only allow songs streamed from the iTunes library. Maybe Apple will allow a small storage space available for free with an itunes account. And maybe Apple will charge for additional storage if this all works very well, I could see it this way.
So if you use your own computer as a server, you don't need Apples? I don't think most people fit into that category. Just because you don't have any use for this service doesn't make it a bad idea. Also, I don't know why people think this wouldn't apply to video as well...
Thanks for the information on Dottunes, I hadn't heard about it before. I think you are likely wrong on the reliability argument though, I doubt Apple would take down their streaming site when they update the online store, but I would see their servers as more impervious to things like power outages than yours would be. I'd also rather not leave my computer on all day just in case I want to access my iTunes library. Dottunes may be free, but power isn't.
Not sure if this is the right forum to be asking, but based on a couple of posts mentioning DotTunes I checked out their website. They apparently have two different products, HookUp and DotTunes. However they don't offer any comparison of the two products and from what I can tell they both do the same thing. Does anyone have experience with both products and can tell me how they compare to each other?
Comments
but it would be very straightforward to host users' iTunes library data and files metadata, a far far smaller amount of data. users' account info and purchase history is already stored in the iTunes cloud, this would just add some more. it would then be easy for iTunes to stream all content users purchased from the iTunes store anywhere with playlists and all that. As a free service. for up to five authorized devices, which is what Apple's deal with the content owners allows now (don't know if those contracts would count iPods/Phones or not).
that would be great for all portable Apple devices. and the iThing of course.
but storing or streaming iTunes content that users ripped from CD's or DVD's or got some other way would be impossible because there is no way to tell if users first acquired it legally. even passively hosting such files on MobileMe raises the same issue. so no way.
it's almost like you're not even purchasing music. more like, you're buying the right to listen to a song or watch a bit of media at will.
Word!
PS: I hope they get the Beatles collection before they go live with this service.
Call me old school if you want, but the primary fuction of my iPod is to play music. Yeah I have a couple of apps that seldom get any use. If I had an iPhone its primary purposes would be a phone and to play music so the added wifi/3g wouldn't matter much to me. Perhaps having 3G makes it more useful as you always have a connection but as far as just an iPod not iPhone I think cloud storage of my music files or links to stream them (however it works the result is the same) makes it much less appealing to keep updating every few years.
Are you arguing that you wouldn't need an iPod with this service because you could just stream music to your computer or that you would just be less inclined to upgrade your existing iPod?
I don't understand how streaming makes iPod less desirable for running, going to the gym, riding the bus, or going anywhere where you aren't tied to your computer and the internet.
I'd really like to have the same music folder, same photos, same applications, and same documents on any Mac I have a login on... movies are unnecessary. It'd be great if the iPhone or slate had those too (but tries to avoid living off online copies - too much data transfers!!).
You would only have to upload songs not available on iTunes servers (assuming they will let you back up non-iTunes purchases).
Yes. Lala apparently does this - recognises your songs and enables access to equivalent online copies of them. If a song is not recognised it uploads it. I'd say it'll only use iTunes masters if you purchased the song from Apple, but for your CD rips it'll try to match your file to an identical one that's already uploaded by another user.
I figure if iTunes was able to automatically name your song when you imported it, it'll be very accurate with identifying the song. It would even hold copies at different bitrates, so you have access to a copy as you made it on your computer.
What about the approx. 20% of my audio tracks not found in the iTunes Store?
If they're in the CDDB it'd be fine. Otherwise it'd upload a copy of your track.
They can't even get the cover art right. I wouldn't expect them to get the track right every time either.
This also worries me. However, the CDDB used to identify CDs is different to iTunes catalog which identify the cover art which causes issues. So hopefully by not relating to iTunes catalog it'll be fine.
It may not be so accurate with pirated mp3s though.
To really work, they'll need to have extra checks that a song is the same as they think - perhaps means randomly selecting one part of the song and matching it against the online copy.
Video too? Too bad it probably wont work with video. It sure seems a good answer to the managing video though. Just purchase video content and stream it, no backup, or media management issues. I would definitely purchase more TV shows and movies if this were the model.
I think if it's purchased video from iTunes, then this should be very easy and likely for Apple to offer. For personal, ripped or pirated video it's a no go (too much data, and too many piracy issues?)
I used to do a radio show. I archived all my shows to MP3. <snip> if they were downloaded we'd be talking multiple gigs of information that would be shared with no one but me. Seems a lot to store just for little 'ol me.
Every user will have some unique content, probably Apple will just average that out so they can offer a "simple" service for everyone. So yes you'd cost Apple more, where I'd cost Apple less, but we're both seeing our whole libraries and don't have to think about it.
Either that or Apple could make a limit - eg: 300GB library - and still average that out by assuming most users will not have unique content. This then allows a premium service for bigger users.
The thing I'd find cool about this is that if I rip my CDs in lossless, if it was indexed in 'the cloud'....
They might even disallow certain usage. Or give lossless users access to a 256Kbps version of their music. Syncing a home iTunes via "Back to My Mac" with work iTunes might make more sense in some situations like yours.
...left me with the impression that it would automatically copy my stuff to the cloud. Now that I understand the limitations of it I think it is even more useless than before when I just thought it was overly invasive to my privacy.
Were you saying that the service was useless because it would upload your private tracks so they're available to you online - and that was an invasion of privacy?
But now you are saying the service is useless because it won't upload your unique tracks so they're available to you online?
I may have misunderstood. What are you saying you would actually find good?
Although Lala would make your own tracks just available to you, I imagine there could be times where somehow your unique content is identified with something incorrectly, and someone would hear your unique content. Apparently Lala did incorrectly identify songs at times.
This system needs to have good cross checks before saying 2 song files are identical. Actually, if they work on the SONG FILE being identical, rather than just trying to make sure the SONG is the same, they'd have to use more storage space but it would avoid song recognition issues.
Too bad it probably wont work with video. It sure seems a good answer to the managing video though. Just purchase video content and stream it, no backup, or media management issues. I would definitely purchase more TV shows and movies if this were the model.
that will depend on the studios and frankly at this point I don't see it happening.
as for the music thing, it's non news. they are basically describing lala as it is now. the only 'new' bit is the idea that uploading would be a simple click of the button similar to the whole genius thing. but is anyone not expecting such a thing (that and perhaps a way to link an old lala account to your apple id)
The whole genius thing is a total invasion of privacy. Why would anyone unleash this monster for Apple to peer at your files in the first place?
I can't think of a way of putting my information online for access anywhere, without trusting some organisation to host that data for me.
What about the approx. 20% of my audio tracks not found in the iTunes Store?
If the service is free then the cloud service might only allow songs streamed from the iTunes library. Maybe Apple will allow a small storage space available for free with an itunes account. And maybe Apple will charge for additional storage if this all works very well, I could see it this way.
What a great idea for iTunes though.
They're not buying/leasing server space, Apple is building and owning the whole deal in North Carolina. Has been for a spell.
So if you use your own computer as a server, you don't need Apples? I don't think most people fit into that category. Just because you don't have any use for this service doesn't make it a bad idea. Also, I don't know why people think this wouldn't apply to video as well...
Thanks for the information on Dottunes, I hadn't heard about it before. I think you are likely wrong on the reliability argument though, I doubt Apple would take down their streaming site when they update the online store, but I would see their servers as more impervious to things like power outages than yours would be. I'd also rather not leave my computer on all day just in case I want to access my iTunes library. Dottunes may be free, but power isn't.
Not sure if this is the right forum to be asking, but based on a couple of posts mentioning DotTunes I checked out their website. They apparently have two different products, HookUp and DotTunes. However they don't offer any comparison of the two products and from what I can tell they both do the same thing. Does anyone have experience with both products and can tell me how they compare to each other?