Kenburg- couldn't say it better myself....Wait till the iphone goes on the verizon and other networks..Then the carriers will be on the same playing field...I know At&t will prove to be better and still haven't spent as much capital as verizon..Verizon shot thier wad already...
Everything is relative. As long as Verizon sucks the least, they will remain the king of the networks.
Capex goes up and down for many reasons. Going to 3G initially cost a lot of money, upgrading say from ev-do rev 0 to rev A doesn't. Samething with going to 3.6 mbps hsdpa initially is expensive, going from 3.6 mbps to 7.2 mbps is not.
Verizon has a 7-8 years of proven track record for network capex decisions being the correct one. AT&T gets criticized for their FTTN u-verse decision, was late on 3G, was about a decade late in picking Qualcomm BREW for their app setup.....
At&t already has rolled out thier 3g network..Now they are building out their 3G 7.2 HSPDA network. Baby bell steps....First let verizon go straight to 4G because they can't build up their 3g and let them wait for a cell phone that can use 4g..AND i'm not talking about service plans but the infastructure. The plans SAMBA is talking about is for the laptops that can use 4G. But I'm talking about cell phone coverage.
There is more than ONE way to make money. Who cares how Verizon can make their money back on their 4G deployment --- as long as they can make their money back.
SAMAB- reason why for the 2-3 years verizon didn't have a 3g phone was because no one had the need to use a 3g network..They were still happy with the motorola razor that sucked to get online.. Voice and simple text messaging was all they cared about...
i thought AT&T said that they're already done rolling out 3G?
They said they completed their updates, but that was apparently upgrading to 7.2Mbps or 800MHz in the select markets they chose, or something else not quite true.. It wasn?t even getting 3G coverage to all of their network, which I find to be very disingenuous with the way they worded their press release. Not that they shouldn?t market themselves in the best light, but that kind of press release is foolish as it will come back and but them in the arse.
There is more than ONE way to make money. Who cares how Verizon can make their money back on their 4G deployment --- as long as they can make their money back.
How are they going to make their money back when they are going to get shellshocked with all the complaints users have with their 3g network..They will need to spend more than At&t to be able to even consider meeting the expectations of today's users... And if they allow tethering...its over...Hope they sell aot of "enterprise plans" for laptops.
SAMAB- reason why for the 2-3 years verizon didn't have a 3g phone was because no one had the need to use a 3g network..They were still happy with the motorola razor that sucked to get online.. Voice and simple text messaging was all they cared about...
Who cares about that? Verizon didn't care about that.
Your point is that the ONLY way to make money from a 4G network is from cell phones. My point is that Verizon realizes that there are more than one way to make money.
As long as Verizon makes money on it --- who are you to criticize them.
How are they going to make their money back when they are going to get shellshocked with all the complaints users have with their 3g network..They will need to spend more than At&t to be able to even consider meeting the expectations of today's users... And if they allow tethering...its over...Hope they sell aot of "enterprise plans" for laptops.
The grass isn't greener on the other side. As long as Verizon sucks the least, then they are still the king.
Haven't you heard? iPhone users download more data than laptop users. Verizon can charge more money on enterprise users who download fewer bits per month than iphone users.
SAMBA now you want to open up with Uverse? Look how many customer satisfaction awards and IPTV awards uverse has received in the last couple of years, beating out cable providers..Don't get me started on uverse..I think you just need sit back this year and see what happens then you might see what I'm saying that's all...
And AT&T hired actor Luke Wilson to "set the record straight" on AT&T's coverage and point out areas where AT&T beats Verizon, like the ability to make calls and access data on handsets at the same time.
This assuming you can successfully make a call in the first place.
Who cares about that? Verizon didn't care about that.
Your point is that the ONLY way to make money from a 4G network is from cell phones. My point is that Verizon realizes that there are more than one way to make money.
As long as Verizon makes money on it --- who are you to criticize them.
You're right i'm not a verizon or at&t sales and marketing guy so verizon can make money on laptops but how long will verizon be able to do this before At&t and other carriers are 4g ready and able to sell "enterprise plans?" Do you think the gap between when At&t will have 4g is large..Not so much..Give them 1-2 years and then everyone will be 4g and able sell enterprise plans...Then the competition will probably drive down the cost for the plans and they will end up slashing the cost like they are now doing for their data plans.
You're right i'm not a verizon or at&t sales and marketing guy so verizon can make money on laptops but how long will verizon be able to do this before At&t and other carriers are 4g ready and able to sell "enterprise plans?" Do you think the gap between when At&t will have 4g is large..Not so much..Give them 1-2 years and then everyone will be 4g and able sell enterprise plans...Then the competition will probably drive down the cost for the plans and they will end up slashing the cost like they are now doing for their data plans.
As you said it Verizon can charge more money during that period --- which is all they need to justify going 4G early.
For you, just because there aren't going to be a 4G handset for a long time --- means that there are absolutely zero financial justification for Verizon to go 4G early.
You believing AT&T is going to do alright (and massive failure on Verizon's part) --- is like believing Lindsay Lohan saying that she is going to be drama-free this year. There is a decade of proven track record on Verizon's business execution.
Five billion dollars, huh? Well, if AT&T's executive bonuses are anything like Wall Street bonuses, seems like this could be easily solved with minimal financial hurt to AT&T.
I don't understand why no one is advocating for wireless line sharing for carriers like they do in Europe yet... that would bring down prices more than anything else, plus carriers would be able to reuse each others' networks Best for the consumer. Unfortunately AT&T and Verizon are determined to NOT let that happen. Wonder why....
This shows that both Ericsson and Huawei has deployable products that works with the LTE modems that are sold in Sweden as I'm writing this. LTE is alive and kicking, showing 80Mbps in the downlink already!
Also read an article about a guy testing the stockholm network with a simple network measurement tool online which showed latencies as low as 32ms.. That is nice.
This shows that both Ericsson and Huawei has deployable products that works with the LTE modems that are sold in Sweden as I'm writing this. LTE is alive and kicking, showing 80Mbps in the downlink already!
Also read an article about a guy testing the stockholm network with a simple network measurement tool online which showed latencies as low as 32ms.. That is nice.
He’s right that the equipment is lacking, but you’re right at it’s “alive and kicking” in the sense that a newborn baby is alive and kicking since the service went live only last month. It’s also only by invitation. Anyone know the price of the HW, the contract and the monthly fee? I can’t find it on their website…
It also states it the downtown area of Stockholm. How many towers is that is? How many towers to cover all of Sweden compared to covering all metropolitan areas of the US, not including the rest of the US currently blanketed with towers? It’s gonna take the US awhile than most countries to get up to speed.
Then there is the “lack of a commercially deployable product.” Sure, having USB LTE dongle in a small area of a city for your notebook is cool, but don’t address the needs of most people. Even if the entire world’s towers were suddenly made LTE there are still no LTE phones to date and getting ones for the a small phone like the iPhone will take even longer.
The fact is these faster speeds have a "double whammy” that require more power and take up more space. This drops with each iteration but it does take time. Even the higher-end of HSPA aren’t available for phones yet. NTT DoCoMo is deploying LTE, too, and even they don’t expect to see an LTE phone until 2011.
Don't need to sell cheap iphone data plans when Verizon can sell enterprise 4G datacard plans.
You realize that Verizon's first crack at 4G will be slower than AT&T's current 3G, let alone the upgraded 3G service that AT&T will have in place before Verizon's 4G is widely deployed?
People who rely on 3G and 4G really are doing themselves and those they are trying to communicate with a disservice.
That is unless they are purposely hiding behind the essentially meaningless labels to artificially prop up their arguments
SAMAB- reason why for the 2-3 years verizon didn't have a 3g phone was because no one had the need to use a 3g network..They were still happy with the motorola razor that sucked to get online.. Voice and simple text messaging was all they cared about...
I dunno about that. There are plenty of people like me who really tried to make mobile/PDA/smartphone computing work - as can be attested by my newton, numerous Palm devices (including the original w/ USR logo) and a few windows mobile phones that now litter my "gadgets of the past" shelf.
Until the iPhone, 3G didn't matter. Not because I didn't want it to use it, but because there weren't devices that could really utilize it. I only really experienced 3G when I tethered my winmo phone to my laptop \
Comments
Kenburg- couldn't say it better myself....Wait till the iphone goes on the verizon and other networks..Then the carriers will be on the same playing field...I know At&t will prove to be better and still haven't spent as much capital as verizon..Verizon shot thier wad already...
Everything is relative. As long as Verizon sucks the least, they will remain the king of the networks.
Capex goes up and down for many reasons. Going to 3G initially cost a lot of money, upgrading say from ev-do rev 0 to rev A doesn't. Samething with going to 3.6 mbps hsdpa initially is expensive, going from 3.6 mbps to 7.2 mbps is not.
Verizon has a 7-8 years of proven track record for network capex decisions being the correct one. AT&T gets criticized for their FTTN u-verse decision, was late on 3G, was about a decade late in picking Qualcomm BREW for their app setup.....
At&t already has rolled out thier 3g network..Now they are building out their 3G 7.2 HSPDA network. Baby bell steps....First let verizon go straight to 4G because they can't build up their 3g and let them wait for a cell phone that can use 4g..AND i'm not talking about service plans but the infastructure. The plans SAMBA is talking about is for the laptops that can use 4G. But I'm talking about cell phone coverage.
There is more than ONE way to make money. Who cares how Verizon can make their money back on their 4G deployment --- as long as they can make their money back.
Verizon sucks!
i thought AT&T said that they're already done rolling out 3G?
They said they completed their updates, but that was apparently upgrading to 7.2Mbps or 800MHz in the select markets they chose, or something else not quite true.. It wasn?t even getting 3G coverage to all of their network, which I find to be very disingenuous with the way they worded their press release. Not that they shouldn?t market themselves in the best light, but that kind of press release is foolish as it will come back and but them in the arse.
There is more than ONE way to make money. Who cares how Verizon can make their money back on their 4G deployment --- as long as they can make their money back.
How are they going to make their money back when they are going to get shellshocked with all the complaints users have with their 3g network..They will need to spend more than At&t to be able to even consider meeting the expectations of today's users... And if they allow tethering...its over...Hope they sell aot of "enterprise plans" for laptops.
SAMAB- reason why for the 2-3 years verizon didn't have a 3g phone was because no one had the need to use a 3g network..They were still happy with the motorola razor that sucked to get online.. Voice and simple text messaging was all they cared about...
Who cares about that? Verizon didn't care about that.
Your point is that the ONLY way to make money from a 4G network is from cell phones. My point is that Verizon realizes that there are more than one way to make money.
As long as Verizon makes money on it --- who are you to criticize them.
I was trying to read this article, but somebody's Verizon map kept getting in the way.
Yeah but it was the AT&T map so.....you good!
How are they going to make their money back when they are going to get shellshocked with all the complaints users have with their 3g network..They will need to spend more than At&t to be able to even consider meeting the expectations of today's users... And if they allow tethering...its over...Hope they sell aot of "enterprise plans" for laptops.
The grass isn't greener on the other side. As long as Verizon sucks the least, then they are still the king.
Haven't you heard? iPhone users download more data than laptop users. Verizon can charge more money on enterprise users who download fewer bits per month than iphone users.
And AT&T hired actor Luke Wilson to "set the record straight" on AT&T's coverage and point out areas where AT&T beats Verizon, like the ability to make calls and access data on handsets at the same time.
This assuming you can successfully make a call in the first place.
Who cares about that? Verizon didn't care about that.
Your point is that the ONLY way to make money from a 4G network is from cell phones. My point is that Verizon realizes that there are more than one way to make money.
As long as Verizon makes money on it --- who are you to criticize them.
You're right i'm not a verizon or at&t sales and marketing guy so verizon can make money on laptops but how long will verizon be able to do this before At&t and other carriers are 4g ready and able to sell "enterprise plans?" Do you think the gap between when At&t will have 4g is large..Not so much..Give them 1-2 years and then everyone will be 4g and able sell enterprise plans...Then the competition will probably drive down the cost for the plans and they will end up slashing the cost like they are now doing for their data plans.
You're right i'm not a verizon or at&t sales and marketing guy so verizon can make money on laptops but how long will verizon be able to do this before At&t and other carriers are 4g ready and able to sell "enterprise plans?" Do you think the gap between when At&t will have 4g is large..Not so much..Give them 1-2 years and then everyone will be 4g and able sell enterprise plans...Then the competition will probably drive down the cost for the plans and they will end up slashing the cost like they are now doing for their data plans.
As you said it Verizon can charge more money during that period --- which is all they need to justify going 4G early.
For you, just because there aren't going to be a 4G handset for a long time --- means that there are absolutely zero financial justification for Verizon to go 4G early.
You believing AT&T is going to do alright (and massive failure on Verizon's part) --- is like believing Lindsay Lohan saying that she is going to be drama-free this year. There is a decade of proven track record on Verizon's business execution.
I believe the only hurdle to AT&T's 4G LTE rollout is the lack of a commercially deployable product.
No product??
http://www.voiceanddata.com.au/news/...kholm-and-Oslo
This shows that both Ericsson and Huawei has deployable products that works with the LTE modems that are sold in Sweden as I'm writing this. LTE is alive and kicking, showing 80Mbps in the downlink already!
Also read an article about a guy testing the stockholm network with a simple network measurement tool online which showed latencies as low as 32ms.. That is nice.
No product??
http://www.voiceanddata.com.au/news/...kholm-and-Oslo
This shows that both Ericsson and Huawei has deployable products that works with the LTE modems that are sold in Sweden as I'm writing this. LTE is alive and kicking, showing 80Mbps in the downlink already!
Also read an article about a guy testing the stockholm network with a simple network measurement tool online which showed latencies as low as 32ms.. That is nice.
He’s right that the equipment is lacking, but you’re right at it’s “alive and kicking” in the sense that a newborn baby is alive and kicking since the service went live only last month. It’s also only by invitation. Anyone know the price of the HW, the contract and the monthly fee? I can’t find it on their website…It also states it the downtown area of Stockholm. How many towers is that is? How many towers to cover all of Sweden compared to covering all metropolitan areas of the US, not including the rest of the US currently blanketed with towers? It’s gonna take the US awhile than most countries to get up to speed.
Then there is the “lack of a commercially deployable product.” Sure, having USB LTE dongle in a small area of a city for your notebook is cool, but don’t address the needs of most people. Even if the entire world’s towers were suddenly made LTE there are still no LTE phones to date and getting ones for the a small phone like the iPhone will take even longer.
The fact is these faster speeds have a "double whammy” that require more power and take up more space. This drops with each iteration but it does take time. Even the higher-end of HSPA aren’t available for phones yet. NTT DoCoMo is deploying LTE, too, and even they don’t expect to see an LTE phone until 2011.
Don't need to sell cheap iphone data plans when Verizon can sell enterprise 4G datacard plans.
You realize that Verizon's first crack at 4G will be slower than AT&T's current 3G, let alone the upgraded 3G service that AT&T will have in place before Verizon's 4G is widely deployed?
People who rely on 3G and 4G really are doing themselves and those they are trying to communicate with a disservice.
That is unless they are purposely hiding behind the essentially meaningless labels to artificially prop up their arguments
SAMAB- reason why for the 2-3 years verizon didn't have a 3g phone was because no one had the need to use a 3g network..They were still happy with the motorola razor that sucked to get online.. Voice and simple text messaging was all they cared about...
I dunno about that. There are plenty of people like me who really tried to make mobile/PDA/smartphone computing work - as can be attested by my newton, numerous Palm devices (including the original w/ USR logo) and a few windows mobile phones that now litter my "gadgets of the past" shelf.
Until the iPhone, 3G didn't matter. Not because I didn't want it to use it, but because there weren't devices that could really utilize it. I only really experienced 3G when I tethered my winmo phone to my laptop