I said: [quote]People always ask liberals "How can you be against the death penalty and for abortion?" The answer is that they both involve a skepticism of government power. Pro-choice because we don't want the government forcing pregnant women to give birth, and anti-death penalty because we don't trust the gov't with such a powerful weapon as execution.<hr></blockquote>Toolboi said: [quote]Eh? What? Thats the worst argument Ive ever heard towards either case.<hr></blockquote>The worst? Wow, I thought it wasn't that bad. Maybe just average? [quote]Im not going to argue, but...<hr></blockquote>In other words, you're going to make a critique, but you don't want me to respond. Too bad. [quote]...all in all of most people Ive talked to,...<hr></blockquote>First off, if you're going to make a point based on what "most people" say, you've already lost me. [quote]...their reasons for being pro-choice (why dont we just call it pro/anti abortion?)and anti-death penalty (hell, wouldnt that make them pro-life? ) are more centered around the mothers right to choose, and the ideals of the justice system.<hr></blockquote>The "right to choose" is a fine slogan but a specious argument. You could say that about anything - murder, rape, robbery, terrorism, "it's my choice," right? No, at some point you have to argue why some things should be choices and some things should be illegal. Please think about the issue a bit first - even a tiny bit is better than nothing.
"The ideals of the justice system." Again, this statement means nothing. Having "ideals" doesn't preclude the death penalty unless you specify the ideals. I personally believe we shouldn't execute because the gov't can a) <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/02/15/dna.prison.release/index.html"; target="_blank">get it wrong</a>, and b) <a href="http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/bushtribunalord111301.html"; target="_blank">abuse its power</a>. But, yeah, "ideals of the justice system." Good point. Why didn't I see that. [quote]Im actually toying with the ideas of a commu-facist government, which I think would work VERY well<hr></blockquote>That's already been "toyed" with. Maybe you didn't hear - they killed tens of millions of people. Ring a bell?
Anyway, if you think a communist/fascist gov't "would work very well," but you think you're anywhere close to a liberal, you've got some issues you need to work through.
That's already been "toyed" with. Maybe you didn't hear - they killed tens of millions of people. Ring a bell?
Anyway, if you think a communist/fascist gov't "would work very well," but you think you're anywhere close to a liberal, you've got some issues you need to work through.
Tisk tisk, your too doubtfull
You forget that the only people who have tried such things were psyco facist ****s who cared more about furthering them selves then about the people they were "helping" (read 1984, he explains it very well).
However, look at people like Lenin who tried stuff like this and were in general ok. Hell, look at Castro. For Lenin it did fall apart, but he had his head in the right place... at least initially...
Change facism in my previous post to corporatism if you like then. Its not important.
And no, because your left wing doesnt mean that you beleive in absoulte freedom (hell, absolute freedom would be anarchy. And even that wouldnt last. As soon as some gang comes along youve got feudal government again). In fact reform liberals (*ahem*) beleive in restricting freedom in order to provide equallity in culture (sounds like an contradiction, but its not).
Any way, this is a little off topic.
What I find particularily funny here though, are how many people I hear complaining that society is too leftwing because of the liberals
[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: The Toolboi ]</p>
Comments
"The ideals of the justice system." Again, this statement means nothing. Having "ideals" doesn't preclude the death penalty unless you specify the ideals. I personally believe we shouldn't execute because the gov't can a) <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/02/15/dna.prison.release/index.html"; target="_blank">get it wrong</a>, and b) <a href="http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/bushtribunalord111301.html"; target="_blank">abuse its power</a>. But, yeah, "ideals of the justice system." Good point. Why didn't I see that. [quote]Im actually toying with the ideas of a commu-facist government, which I think would work VERY well<hr></blockquote>That's already been "toyed" with. Maybe you didn't hear - they killed tens of millions of people. Ring a bell?
Anyway, if you think a communist/fascist gov't "would work very well," but you think you're anywhere close to a liberal, you've got some issues you need to work through.
:eek:
[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
Anyway, if you think a communist/fascist gov't "would work very well," but you think you're anywhere close to a liberal, you've got some issues you need to work through.
Tisk tisk, your too doubtfull
You forget that the only people who have tried such things were psyco facist ****s who cared more about furthering them selves then about the people they were "helping" (read 1984, he explains it very well).
However, look at people like Lenin who tried stuff like this and were in general ok. Hell, look at Castro. For Lenin it did fall apart, but he had his head in the right place... at least initially...
Change facism in my previous post to corporatism if you like then. Its not important.
And no, because your left wing doesnt mean that you beleive in absoulte freedom (hell, absolute freedom would be anarchy. And even that wouldnt last. As soon as some gang comes along youve got feudal government again). In fact reform liberals (*ahem*) beleive in restricting freedom in order to provide equallity in culture (sounds like an contradiction, but its not).
Any way, this is a little off topic.
What I find particularily funny here though, are how many people I hear complaining that society is too leftwing because of the liberals
[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: The Toolboi ]</p>