Bruce, I'm surprised at you, you should know better than all this. An author must get their royalty, at the very least. After advances are paid off, it can be as high as 25% of the list of the book. The publisher rarely makes any money at all on the hardcover until after it's sold tens of thousands of copies, and then, not so much until it goes to over 100 thousand.
Almost no books sell in those numbers. Most wind up losing money for the publisher, and make very little for the author. It's the few bestsellers that pay for most of the others being published. It's sad, but true.
It costs less than some think to actually make a book, ship it, and take back and destroy unsold copies. Maybe 25% of the hardcovers selling price at $17 to $20.
I don't "hang out", i actually multi-task and do other things while this website is up on my computer. While multi-tasking may seem strange to you and many others on here now because you will always cede to whatever Apple dictates what you should and shouldn't like.
As for me . I enjoy reading many of the threads here, many are informative and some entertaining. And believe it or not I corresponded with many fellow posters on here that share many of my views and I theirs and are open to discus many topics without bias.
And since when was hypocrisy ever a good thing? Why do you defend that concept?
Tek, you ARE biased. You can't pretend you're not, and then say that others are.
I have no problem paying a measly $15.00 for an eBook. The arguments make about as much sense and expecting a Picasso for the price of canvas and paint. The value is the content, not the delivery method. I can't wait to get an iPad.
No one seems to complain about spending an equal amount for a movie or other entertainment. Why all the complaining? If the book is too expensive for you then don't buy it---go to the library and borrow it instead.
I don't "hang out", i actually multi-task and do other things while this website is up on my computer. While multi-tasking may seem strange to you and many others on here now because you will always cede to whatever Apple dictates what you should and shouldn't like.
As for me . I enjoy reading many of the threads here, many are informative and some entertaining. And believe it or not I corresponded with many fellow posters on here that share many of my views and I theirs and are open to discus many topics without bias.
And since when was hypocrisy ever a good thing? Why do you defend that concept?
Stop working yourself up into a lather by having a conversation with yourself (glad to see that you're finally posting beyond your obligatory three words).
And, get real. You're not the only one that 'multitasks.'
And, while you're at it: (i) Grow up; (ii) Get a life.
Did you guys forget that the Kindle allows for wireless download of new books. I also think I read that they give you WikiPedia access on some of the units. Sure, that's a relatively low bandwidth application, but there is still a wireless service provider that needs to get paid. I don't see how the eBook will be priced the same on Amazon as it will be in the iBook store.
Visit my Facebook iPad fan site and post some comments:
Over on the Amazon.com Kindle forums, the Kindle users are falling at the feet of Bezos, saying how they are going to boycott Macmillan books (as if "Macmillan" was an author) and fantasizing about Bezos and AMZN going into the indie publishing business (as if Amazon got into ANY business that required the kind of care and feeding of thousands of authors for potentially no payback). Worth browsing in your spare time, if only for laughs:
The best part is when the "Amazon Kindle Team" (whoever that is) says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazon Kindle Team
...we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles...
Uh, yeah, that "monopoly" is called a publishing contract and it sets the terms of the agreement between the publisher and author, including giving the publisher exclusive distribution rights. It works the same for every publishing company that sells books to Amazon. If the "Amazon Kindle Team" hasn't figured out how that works by now, they must not be ready to go into the indie publishing business any time soon.
If nothing else, they certainly have the Kindle faithful lathered up!
Shame on Amazon. While I don't necessarily agree with the pricing of eBooks, just because there is a dispute on what a publisher wants for a book, it is not right of Amazon to deny their customers the right to get a Macm book from Amazon or Kindle. The market will bear what price people are willing to pay to get an eBook or hard copy. If publishers want more for new books and if they pass this on to the authors, then it is only right that a new book should get a higher price. If you go to a bookstore, you would pay more for a just released novel. You as a consumer can decide to wait until the price comes down and buy the book three or four months later. Suppose that Borders or any other retailer decides not to carry ANY books of a publisher because of a pricing issue on a new book--almost borders on censorship. It would have been more reasonable if Amazon told Macm we won't increase the price so you have the option of not listing any new books with us or you can allow us to list them at our agreed to price; but to remove all Macm books that is just plain shameful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
If your running a business and your supplier just raised their prices 133%, you surely can deny carrying their products if it doesn't bother making your business worthwhile.
You see, Amazon is selling Kindles, in order to justify buying a expensive device the customer has to realize a benefit over traditional books which look a heck of a lot nicer on a shelf and can be resold.
If the e-content prices are too high, adoption is going to be quite low and not many Kindles will be sold and the whole concept of e-books will just die off.
Publishers have a interest in e-books because it cuts their costs in half over traditional books, the lower they set their prices, the more volume they will have and possibly more total revenue.
Right now the publishers feel that they can set their prices higher and if they realize lost total revenue, they then can place certain books "on sale" to generate higher volume.
However the e-book thing is rather a instant thing, people buy a device because they want what they want right now, instead of the traditional browsing in the bookstore.
I think it would be a good thing for the publishers to study the concept of renting their e-books, this would appeal to a very very large audience and possible make more in total revenue than buying.
With a device like a Kindle or a iPad, the content can be snatched off the device after a certain time period, unlike a traditional book.
You kind of missed the point. It was wrong of Amazon to remove all of Macm listings from the Kindle and the Amazon on-line store just because they could not agree on the price of new releases. The consumer should be the one who chooses what to pay for a book. e-books are cheaper than traditional books so you still get any book cheaper. New releases are generally higher and come down in price after a few months. The consumer can choose when to buy the book and at what price. If you have to have it now, then you will have to pay more. Will Amazon do likewise with other publishers who don't fall in line? If you check the Kindle store, you will find some books that sell for more than $9.99, they are still cheaper than the real book price.
As for your argument that Amazon is in business to sell Kindles, then if you have a issue on price, just remove the listings from the Kindle store and not all of Amazon. Amazon is flexible what they are willing to pay publishers. As pointed out in other postings, Amazon just prior to the iPads release, renegotiated most of the contracts with publishers giving them a better deal.
"I think it would be a good thing for the publishers to study the concept of renting their e-books, this would appeal to a very very large audience and possible make more in total revenue than buying."
Bad idea. When I pay for something I only want to pay for it once and I like to own it. Like buying a CD or a book. If I want to rent something, for a book, I go to the library, for a DVD block Busters or the like.
"With a device like a Kindle or a iPad, the content can be snatched off the device after a certain time period, unlike a traditional book."
Wasn't Amazon who removed or "snatched" the some content from their Kindle after customers paid for the e-book????? One was a student who lost all of his work and sued Amazon--they did pay for the cost of the book--but the work was lost. Again SHAME !!!!!
What a disgrace. Apple are saying publishers should be able to set their own prices (OK, good), but then saying they expect prices to be around a certain price (to drive a revenue base).
As someone else said, it smacks of price-fixing. It's also hypocritical.
With these kind of turf wars and a series of mixed messages coming out (especially from the intermediary's who are starting to sound like old fashioned monopolists) it's easily enough for consumers to lose confidence in the e-book model at all.
Way to go guys. Remember the old MP3/DRM fights you had back then amongst yourselves and between your customers, well this is the same old crap served on us consumers that you expect us to accept again. Good luck with that.
Amazon has caved in - but, of course you all new that, didn't you?
"Amazon caves after two days, and agrees to Macmillan?s demands to sell its e-books at a higher price ?
otherwise known as the Apple iPad pricing plan. In doing so, the world?s biggest e-commerce player has made a tacit admission that e-book prices will be rising across the board."
I don't know where you get your books, but I usually see new hardcovers for $12-15. Nobody ever seems to sell them for MSRP.
I can't believe that people are defending Apple for undoing all the good work Amazon has done for consumers. I like Apple and I love my Macs, iPods, and iPhone, but because of this and other anti-consumer issues, I wish the iPad didn't exist.
Uh, what? Sorry but that isn't true, at all. In general we're talking about NEWER releases as well. No you're not going to pay $26 in a store for Moby Dick.
Amazon has caved in - but, of course you all new that, didn't you?
"Amazon caves after two days, and agrees to Macmillan?s demands to sell its e-books at a higher price ?
otherwise known as the Apple iPad pricing plan. In doing so, the world?s biggest e-commerce player has made a tacit admission that e-book prices will be rising across the board."
Comments
yes
apple was tricked into doing this bad thing
bad people
Bruce, I'm surprised at you, you should know better than all this. An author must get their royalty, at the very least. After advances are paid off, it can be as high as 25% of the list of the book. The publisher rarely makes any money at all on the hardcover until after it's sold tens of thousands of copies, and then, not so much until it goes to over 100 thousand.
Almost no books sell in those numbers. Most wind up losing money for the publisher, and make very little for the author. It's the few bestsellers that pay for most of the others being published. It's sad, but true.
It costs less than some think to actually make a book, ship it, and take back and destroy unsold copies. Maybe 25% of the hardcovers selling price at $17 to $20.
I don't "hang out", i actually multi-task and do other things while this website is up on my computer. While multi-tasking may seem strange to you and many others on here now because you will always cede to whatever Apple dictates what you should and shouldn't like.
As for me . I enjoy reading many of the threads here, many are informative and some entertaining. And believe it or not I corresponded with many fellow posters on here that share many of my views and I theirs and are open to discus many topics without bias.
And since when was hypocrisy ever a good thing? Why do you defend that concept?
Tek, you ARE biased. You can't pretend you're not, and then say that others are.
How do Kindle prices compare, in general, to paperback prices? In theory, Kindle should be cheaper than paperback which is cheaper than hardcover.
I believe my Star Trek paper backs are close to the same price on the Kindle.
One thing everyone needs to remember is I have internet (albeit very limited) access via the Kindle that I don't pay a monthly fee.
No one seems to complain about spending an equal amount for a movie or other entertainment. Why all the complaining? If the book is too expensive for you then don't buy it---go to the library and borrow it instead.
I don't "hang out", i actually multi-task and do other things while this website is up on my computer. While multi-tasking may seem strange to you and many others on here now because you will always cede to whatever Apple dictates what you should and shouldn't like.
As for me . I enjoy reading many of the threads here, many are informative and some entertaining. And believe it or not I corresponded with many fellow posters on here that share many of my views and I theirs and are open to discus many topics without bias.
And since when was hypocrisy ever a good thing? Why do you defend that concept?
Stop working yourself up into a lather by having a conversation with yourself (glad to see that you're finally posting beyond your obligatory three words).
And, get real. You're not the only one that 'multitasks.'
And, while you're at it: (i) Grow up; (ii) Get a life.
Visit my Facebook iPad fan site and post some comments:
http://theIPADisAwesome.com
that they are no longer the only game in town.
They are really taking the iPad as a serious threat.
All arguements aside on how great or not the iPad is,
and all arguements aside on how good or bad backlighting
is for an e-reader and your eyes. -
It's a safe bet the iPad will far outsell whatever volume
the one-trick pony Kindle sees.
Regardless if those sales are initially for the e-reader capability,
Amazon knows they will most likely lose any associated
ebook sale once a consumer has an iPad on thier lap instead of a kindle.
They had no choice but to concede to the publisher.
http://bit.ly/9zehXS
The best part is when the "Amazon Kindle Team" (whoever that is) says:
...we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles...
Uh, yeah, that "monopoly" is called a publishing contract and it sets the terms of the agreement between the publisher and author, including giving the publisher exclusive distribution rights. It works the same for every publishing company that sells books to Amazon. If the "Amazon Kindle Team" hasn't figured out how that works by now, they must not be ready to go into the indie publishing business any time soon.
If nothing else, they certainly have the Kindle faithful lathered up!
Shame on Amazon. While I don't necessarily agree with the pricing of eBooks, just because there is a dispute on what a publisher wants for a book, it is not right of Amazon to deny their customers the right to get a Macm book from Amazon or Kindle. The market will bear what price people are willing to pay to get an eBook or hard copy. If publishers want more for new books and if they pass this on to the authors, then it is only right that a new book should get a higher price. If you go to a bookstore, you would pay more for a just released novel. You as a consumer can decide to wait until the price comes down and buy the book three or four months later. Suppose that Borders or any other retailer decides not to carry ANY books of a publisher because of a pricing issue on a new book--almost borders on censorship. It would have been more reasonable if Amazon told Macm we won't increase the price so you have the option of not listing any new books with us or you can allow us to list them at our agreed to price; but to remove all Macm books that is just plain shameful.
If your running a business and your supplier just raised their prices 133%, you surely can deny carrying their products if it doesn't bother making your business worthwhile.
You see, Amazon is selling Kindles, in order to justify buying a expensive device the customer has to realize a benefit over traditional books which look a heck of a lot nicer on a shelf and can be resold.
If the e-content prices are too high, adoption is going to be quite low and not many Kindles will be sold and the whole concept of e-books will just die off.
Publishers have a interest in e-books because it cuts their costs in half over traditional books, the lower they set their prices, the more volume they will have and possibly more total revenue.
Right now the publishers feel that they can set their prices higher and if they realize lost total revenue, they then can place certain books "on sale" to generate higher volume.
However the e-book thing is rather a instant thing, people buy a device because they want what they want right now, instead of the traditional browsing in the bookstore.
I think it would be a good thing for the publishers to study the concept of renting their e-books, this would appeal to a very very large audience and possible make more in total revenue than buying.
With a device like a Kindle or a iPad, the content can be snatched off the device after a certain time period, unlike a traditional book.
You kind of missed the point. It was wrong of Amazon to remove all of Macm listings from the Kindle and the Amazon on-line store just because they could not agree on the price of new releases. The consumer should be the one who chooses what to pay for a book. e-books are cheaper than traditional books so you still get any book cheaper. New releases are generally higher and come down in price after a few months. The consumer can choose when to buy the book and at what price. If you have to have it now, then you will have to pay more. Will Amazon do likewise with other publishers who don't fall in line? If you check the Kindle store, you will find some books that sell for more than $9.99, they are still cheaper than the real book price.
As for your argument that Amazon is in business to sell Kindles, then if you have a issue on price, just remove the listings from the Kindle store and not all of Amazon. Amazon is flexible what they are willing to pay publishers. As pointed out in other postings, Amazon just prior to the iPads release, renegotiated most of the contracts with publishers giving them a better deal.
"I think it would be a good thing for the publishers to study the concept of renting their e-books, this would appeal to a very very large audience and possible make more in total revenue than buying."
Bad idea. When I pay for something I only want to pay for it once and I like to own it. Like buying a CD or a book. If I want to rent something, for a book, I go to the library, for a DVD block Busters or the like.
"With a device like a Kindle or a iPad, the content can be snatched off the device after a certain time period, unlike a traditional book."
Wasn't Amazon who removed or "snatched" the some content from their Kindle after customers paid for the e-book?????
As someone else said, it smacks of price-fixing. It's also hypocritical.
With these kind of turf wars and a series of mixed messages coming out (especially from the intermediary's who are starting to sound like old fashioned monopolists) it's easily enough for consumers to lose confidence in the e-book model at all.
Way to go guys. Remember the old MP3/DRM fights you had back then amongst yourselves and between your customers, well this is the same old crap served on us consumers that you expect us to accept again. Good luck with that.
Strawman.
Amazon hasn't done good work for consumers, Amazon is doing good work for Amazon.
From the above linked blog post from an author (bold is mine, for emphasis):
If this is true (and I have no reason to believe it's not), then I think Amazon is about to get some of that down-home DOJ lovin'...
It is true and the reason I would never let Amazon be my publisher.
"Amazon caves after two days, and agrees to Macmillan?s demands to sell its e-books at a higher price ?
otherwise known as the Apple iPad pricing plan. In doing so, the world?s biggest e-commerce player has made a tacit admission that e-book prices will be rising across the board."
http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/2010...es-will-go-up/
http://yousayyeah.com/article/2010/0..._chain_battles
Taht's a new word to me!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/te...zonweb.html?hp
"In a fight over the price of electronic books, Amazon.com has blinked."
Next, they fix the cable.
Oh man... Bezos just lost all credibility for all time.
You also know that right now, Amazon is losing several dollars on every "hardcover" they sell.
Really? So are they making a profit on the softcovers? What's happening with Amazon?
I don't know where you get your books, but I usually see new hardcovers for $12-15. Nobody ever seems to sell them for MSRP.
I can't believe that people are defending Apple for undoing all the good work Amazon has done for consumers. I like Apple and I love my Macs, iPods, and iPhone, but because of this and other anti-consumer issues, I wish the iPad didn't exist.
Uh, what? Sorry but that isn't true, at all. In general we're talking about NEWER releases as well. No you're not going to pay $26 in a store for Moby Dick.
Amazon has caved in - but, of course you all new that, didn't you?
"Amazon caves after two days, and agrees to Macmillan?s demands to sell its e-books at a higher price ?
otherwise known as the Apple iPad pricing plan. In doing so, the world?s biggest e-commerce player has made a tacit admission that e-book prices will be rising across the board."
http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/2010...es-will-go-up/
Good. Now somebody contact Random House for crying out loud.