Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't dozens of millions of people have CDMA phones in their pocket for YEARS? Most people don't upgrade until the have a new free phone or even longer, ie two to three years. For example, most people over 30. My parents and other family have 3 or 4 year old phones. I only do it every 2 years when it's free. So just because LTE is turned on doesn't mean CDMA is turned off. Unless I'm wrong? Is VZ going to give everyone new free LTE phones? That just doesn't seem to make sense... I imagine it will be several years before there are more LTE users than CDMA, right? It's like the transition from PPC to intel or OS 9 to OS X. Or XP to Win 7. Takes time. Years.
edit. it really does appear VZ is on track on LTE, they say they're opening in 30 markets for LTE in a few months, covering 100 million people. Wow, I guess an Apple iPhone with VZ LTE could come this summer! I just wonder what kind of contract obligation Apple and AT&T have. \
Ignore this guy Aquatic, what i heard from him is gas coming out of his ass. A worker from verizon would know a switch of networks isn't a flip of the switch. If your going to pretend to be something buddy, at least know your damn facts, don't come in here with bull
Apple never was going with Verizon. It used Verizon to secure a better deal from AT&T. If it would have went with Verizon, it would have had to make different model iPhones for different parts of the world. That would have messed up the simplicity of it's distribution model.
If Apple doesn't go with Verizon, it will be because Verizon has shown it is not a great company to work with if you sell phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
Somebody should tell this analyst that his 60-page report is worth less than a roll of toilet paper.
Probability analysis ?? It's known as "Garbage in, garbage out." LOL.
Steve will never deal with Verizon. When he first came to them for a deal, they turned him down. Now, it's "I'll destroy you, Verizon."
There are two reasons why I haven't gotten another iPhone since I bought the 1st generation iPhone. The first is I haven't been impressed enough to get the 2nd or 3rd generation models. The fact that the iPhone is still lacking true multi capabilities is bad. The iPhone is the only smart phone on the market that doesn't do this now. CNET News has pointed this out numerous times. The second reason is AT&T. I hate them and will not sign another contract with them. There signal sucks half of the time, calls drop and I get voicemails from missed calls 30 minutes after the call was made most of the time. Thank god my current contract is up with them now. If the 4th generation comes out to be a disappointment like the last two I may be moving on to another brand of smart phone that works with the Verizon network. I hope Apple does come to there senses and signs a deal with Verizon. Their pride will hurt them in the end if they do not and Google will continue to prevail over the iPhone because that is most likely what I will get next.
exactly what are you multi-tasking ??
and ATT only sucks in 2 cities
San Fran and NYC
ATT is great every where else , verizon is much better overall country wide
Verizon hates apple and does not support apple anything on any verizon projects
for example
Verizon has free wifi for their broadband clients . they caledl me on the phone and spent 45 minutes setting me up . it crashed many times . FInally some one told me i need XP to get free wifi in NYC
f... XP
f,,, verizon
so why do so many ever think that either party wants to dance
i'm getting speed test results in Manhattan that are twice as fast as verizon's hypothetical ideal situation maximum evdo speeds
First off, EV/DO can currently provide up to 3.1 Mbps in the downlink... this is going to be increased to approx. 9-10 Mbps shortly... ad in Verizon's outstanding 3G coverage, and AT&T can't beat it...
My friend & I haven't experienced any change in speeds. We have an iPhone 3GS and an HTC Droid Eris. We are both running the speedtest.net app set to the same servers. Both have excellent signal strength.
We have run this from multiple locations in Manhattan & NJ metro area.
Verizon is ALWAYS faster on the uplink by 2-3 TIMES! 200-300 kbps on AT&T vs. 800-900 kbps on Verizon...
On the downlink, Verizon has either been about the same and up to 50% FASTER than AT&T.... In the downlink, we top out at 1.2 Mbps on the iPhone, while we get 1.8-2.0 Mbps on the HTC Droid.
If we run tests at rush hour... AT&T slows to a crawl & pokes along... Verizon remains quite fast.... (this is the benefit of EV/DO vs UMTS... if UMTS is carrying circuit-switched voice, then it slows WAY down...)
I called Apple to ask if either Apple was limiting the data speeds in the device or if AT&T was limiting them in the network... No one knows anything..... Nice.... make a bold claim as both companies do, and then have NOTHING to back it up!
ATT is great every where else , verizon is much better overall country wide
Verizon hates apple and does not support apple anything on any verizon projects
for example
Verizon has free wifi for their broadband clients . they caledl me on the phone and spent 45 minutes setting me up . it crashed many times . FInally some one told me i need XP to get free wifi in NYC
f... XP
f,,, verizon
so why do so many ever think that either party wants to dance
the mutual hate is real
go apple
Um, AT&T came in DEAD LAST on SECOND TO DEAD LAST in EVERY region of the country in the category of network quality in the latest Consumer Reports survey.... this is where they have been for the past few years in both the annual Consumer Reports as well as JD Powers surveys...
So they suck in a lot more places than NYC & San Fran my friend...
Apple never was going with Verizon. It used Verizon to secure a better deal from AT&T. If it would have went with Verizon, it would have had to make different model iPhones for different parts of the world. That would have messed up the simplicity of it's distribution model.
If Apple doesn't go with Verizon, it will be because Verizon has shown it is not a great company to work with if you sell phones.
Um... different model phones? - NOT TRUE!!!!!!
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
First off, EV/DO can currently provide up to 3.1 Mbps in the downlink... this is going to be increased to approx. 9-10 Mbps shortly... ad in Verizon's outstanding 3G coverage, and AT&T can't beat it...
Yes, AT&T can beat it because they choose 3GSM, which has a long way to go before it starts to obsolesce.
EV-DO development has stopped at the weak EV-DO Rev. B and Qualcomm has dropped UMB '4G' development because LTE was kicking it's ass in every way. Note: Qualcomm still has patents in LTE and 3GSM so they aren't completely losing here, but it isn't be nearly as profitable as CDMA2000 and UMB.
Neither Sprint nor Verizon have shown interest in updating their '3G' past EV-DO Rev. A. They're moving to WiMAX and LTE so it looks like getting more than 3.1Mbps theoretical is out of the question.
I'm in one of the many markets with HSDPA 7.2Mbps, the iPhone has a radio to support those theoretical speeds and my downlink is usually just over 3Mbps (actual) for all the areas I travel to.
PS: It's CDMA-based networks that have the inherent problem with fixed bandwidth sizes that limit total bandwidth to handsets, not 3GSM.
Look at the thickness and weight of the BB Storm to the iPhone. No one has said Apple could not use dual radio chips, the point is that Apple will not use such radio chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wirelesstestman
Um... different model phones? - NOT TRUE!!!!!!
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
The longer Android goes unopposed on Verizon's network, the more Android phones/apps people will buy. Then if/when the iPhone becomes available on Verizon, people with an investment in Android software will be less likely to switch.
Anecdotally I'm not finding this true. The couple of people I know with Android phones. They would drop Android in a heart beat if they could have an iPhone on VZW. The only reason they have an Android phone is because it is the phone most like the iPhone on VZW.
Quote:
Similarly, if I have an Android phone on Verizon and I'm contemplating getting an iPad, I can't use the same applications for both devices. Any application (or type of application) I wanted to use on both devices I'd have to purchase twice. So it could even impact sales of iPads to non-ATT customers.
I do see your point. But I cannot see it as a primary reason alone to bring the iPhone to VZW. I've seen many people who have a smartphone and still have an iPod Touch.
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
When someone goes crazy with the exclamations and bolding I expect them to have a better grasp of the facts, yet that never seems to be the case.
The BB Storm might be "worldmode" by definition but they only support 2100Mhz spectrum on 3GSM. That means that it's uni-band for UMTS, which means that they can be used with AT&T, T-Mobile (or Canadian 3GSM). You can use it for '2G' GSM networks but that isn't exactly the all-in-one phone you made it out to be in your bogus argument, is it?
Then there are the issues you completely ignored. For instance, why does RiM sell the Storm everywhere in the world, expect for Verizon, without CDMA if there it's simply easier to make a single phone. Your initial argument that the Storm is a single model phone is a lie. There is the 9530 for North America and the 9500 for everywhere else.
Let's assume for a moment that you weren't mistaken about there being a single model phone and that it would work on every carrier's 3GSM in North America. If a "worldmode" phone was such an ideal method to R&D and manufacturer a single handset then why aren't these phones more common? Hell, why aren't all phones "worldmode"?
The simple fact is that there are plenty of trade offs with this design. Some might include, but not be limited to: increased chip cost, increased radio chip costs, increased R&D costs, hugely increased Qualcomm licensing costs, increased size of phones do to more HW, and increased power usage.
This whole using dual radios for CDMA and GSM, it sure seems the cost-benefit for Apple waaay outweighs any minor engineering. TenoBell I take your point about possible vs. Apple wanting to do it in their slim form, but I still think it would probably be in the realm of possible. Ives & Co. at Infinite Loop have magical powers. I think AT&T just made Apple an offer to good to refuse, a huge wad of cash. But...I think the reason Apple took this was because they themselves didn't know how big a success iPhone would be! Seriously. I think the current situation with no VZ iPhone is more politics and less engineering. That's just my gut feeling...I'm sure we will see CDMA iPhone, it's just when that is the question. CDMA isn't going anywhere for a half a decade or more. And Mr. Verizon would you care to comment on
Comments
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't dozens of millions of people have CDMA phones in their pocket for YEARS? Most people don't upgrade until the have a new free phone or even longer, ie two to three years. For example, most people over 30. My parents and other family have 3 or 4 year old phones. I only do it every 2 years when it's free. So just because LTE is turned on doesn't mean CDMA is turned off. Unless I'm wrong? Is VZ going to give everyone new free LTE phones? That just doesn't seem to make sense... I imagine it will be several years before there are more LTE users than CDMA, right? It's like the transition from PPC to intel or OS 9 to OS X. Or XP to Win 7. Takes time. Years.
edit. it really does appear VZ is on track on LTE, they say they're opening in 30 markets for LTE in a few months, covering 100 million people. Wow, I guess an Apple iPhone with VZ LTE could come this summer! I just wonder what kind of contract obligation Apple and AT&T have.
http://news.vzw.com/LTE/Overview.html
Ignore this guy Aquatic, what i heard from him is gas coming out of his ass. A worker from verizon would know a switch of networks isn't a flip of the switch. If your going to pretend to be something buddy, at least know your damn facts, don't come in here with bull
iPad is going to be exclusive to AT&T.
i guess we'll soon find out.
If Apple doesn't go with Verizon, it will be because Verizon has shown it is not a great company to work with if you sell phones.
Somebody should tell this analyst that his 60-page report is worth less than a roll of toilet paper.
Probability analysis ?? It's known as "Garbage in, garbage out." LOL.
Steve will never deal with Verizon. When he first came to them for a deal, they turned him down. Now, it's "I'll destroy you, Verizon."
There are two reasons why I haven't gotten another iPhone since I bought the 1st generation iPhone. The first is I haven't been impressed enough to get the 2nd or 3rd generation models. The fact that the iPhone is still lacking true multi capabilities is bad. The iPhone is the only smart phone on the market that doesn't do this now. CNET News has pointed this out numerous times. The second reason is AT&T. I hate them and will not sign another contract with them. There signal sucks half of the time, calls drop and I get voicemails from missed calls 30 minutes after the call was made most of the time. Thank god my current contract is up with them now. If the 4th generation comes out to be a disappointment like the last two I may be moving on to another brand of smart phone that works with the Verizon network. I hope Apple does come to there senses and signs a deal with Verizon. Their pride will hurt them in the end if they do not and Google will continue to prevail over the iPhone because that is most likely what I will get next.
exactly what are you multi-tasking ??
and ATT only sucks in 2 cities
San Fran and NYC
ATT is great every where else , verizon is much better overall country wide
Verizon hates apple and does not support apple anything on any verizon projects
for example
Verizon has free wifi for their broadband clients . they caledl me on the phone and spent 45 minutes setting me up . it crashed many times . FInally some one told me i need XP to get free wifi in NYC
f... XP
f,,, verizon
so why do so many ever think that either party wants to dance
the mutual hate is real
go apple
i'm getting speed test results in Manhattan that are twice as fast as verizon's hypothetical ideal situation maximum evdo speeds
First off, EV/DO can currently provide up to 3.1 Mbps in the downlink... this is going to be increased to approx. 9-10 Mbps shortly... ad in Verizon's outstanding 3G coverage, and AT&T can't beat it...
My friend & I haven't experienced any change in speeds. We have an iPhone 3GS and an HTC Droid Eris. We are both running the speedtest.net app set to the same servers. Both have excellent signal strength.
We have run this from multiple locations in Manhattan & NJ metro area.
Verizon is ALWAYS faster on the uplink by 2-3 TIMES! 200-300 kbps on AT&T vs. 800-900 kbps on Verizon...
On the downlink, Verizon has either been about the same and up to 50% FASTER than AT&T.... In the downlink, we top out at 1.2 Mbps on the iPhone, while we get 1.8-2.0 Mbps on the HTC Droid.
If we run tests at rush hour... AT&T slows to a crawl & pokes along... Verizon remains quite fast.... (this is the benefit of EV/DO vs UMTS... if UMTS is carrying circuit-switched voice, then it slows WAY down...)
I called Apple to ask if either Apple was limiting the data speeds in the device or if AT&T was limiting them in the network... No one knows anything..... Nice.... make a bold claim as both companies do, and then have NOTHING to back it up!
exactly what are you multi-tasking ??
and ATT only sucks in 2 cities
San Fran and NYC
ATT is great every where else , verizon is much better overall country wide
Verizon hates apple and does not support apple anything on any verizon projects
for example
Verizon has free wifi for their broadband clients . they caledl me on the phone and spent 45 minutes setting me up . it crashed many times . FInally some one told me i need XP to get free wifi in NYC
f... XP
f,,, verizon
so why do so many ever think that either party wants to dance
the mutual hate is real
go apple
Um, AT&T came in DEAD LAST on SECOND TO DEAD LAST in EVERY region of the country in the category of network quality in the latest Consumer Reports survey.... this is where they have been for the past few years in both the annual Consumer Reports as well as JD Powers surveys...
So they suck in a lot more places than NYC & San Fran my friend...
Apple never was going with Verizon. It used Verizon to secure a better deal from AT&T. If it would have went with Verizon, it would have had to make different model iPhones for different parts of the world. That would have messed up the simplicity of it's distribution model.
If Apple doesn't go with Verizon, it will be because Verizon has shown it is not a great company to work with if you sell phones.
Um... different model phones? - NOT TRUE!!!!!!
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
First off, EV/DO can currently provide up to 3.1 Mbps in the downlink... this is going to be increased to approx. 9-10 Mbps shortly... ad in Verizon's outstanding 3G coverage, and AT&T can't beat it...
Yes, AT&T can beat it because they choose 3GSM, which has a long way to go before it starts to obsolesce.
EV-DO development has stopped at the weak EV-DO Rev. B and Qualcomm has dropped UMB '4G' development because LTE was kicking it's ass in every way. Note: Qualcomm still has patents in LTE and 3GSM so they aren't completely losing here, but it isn't be nearly as profitable as CDMA2000 and UMB.
Neither Sprint nor Verizon have shown interest in updating their '3G' past EV-DO Rev. A. They're moving to WiMAX and LTE so it looks like getting more than 3.1Mbps theoretical is out of the question.
I'm in one of the many markets with HSDPA 7.2Mbps, the iPhone has a radio to support those theoretical speeds and my downlink is usually just over 3Mbps (actual) for all the areas I travel to.
PS: It's CDMA-based networks that have the inherent problem with fixed bandwidth sizes that limit total bandwidth to handsets, not 3GSM.
Um... different model phones? - NOT TRUE!!!!!!
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
The longer Android goes unopposed on Verizon's network, the more Android phones/apps people will buy. Then if/when the iPhone becomes available on Verizon, people with an investment in Android software will be less likely to switch.
Anecdotally I'm not finding this true. The couple of people I know with Android phones. They would drop Android in a heart beat if they could have an iPhone on VZW. The only reason they have an Android phone is because it is the phone most like the iPhone on VZW.
Similarly, if I have an Android phone on Verizon and I'm contemplating getting an iPad, I can't use the same applications for both devices. Any application (or type of application) I wanted to use on both devices I'd have to purchase twice. So it could even impact sales of iPads to non-ATT customers.
I do see your point. But I cannot see it as a primary reason alone to bring the iPhone to VZW. I've seen many people who have a smartphone and still have an iPod Touch.
Um... different model phones? - NOT TRUE!!!!!!
The Blackberry Storm uses the multimode Qualcomm chipset that supports ALL 2G & 3G standards EXCEPT the Chinese-only TD-SCDMA...
I am so tired of hearing this bogus argument! There are a number of multimode 3G devices on the market today...
When someone goes crazy with the exclamations and bolding I expect them to have a better grasp of the facts, yet that never seems to be the case.
The BB Storm might be "worldmode" by definition but they only support 2100Mhz spectrum on 3GSM. That means that it's uni-band for UMTS, which means that they can be used with AT&T, T-Mobile (or Canadian 3GSM). You can use it for '2G' GSM networks but that isn't exactly the all-in-one phone you made it out to be in your bogus argument, is it?
Then there are the issues you completely ignored. For instance, why does RiM sell the Storm everywhere in the world, expect for Verizon, without CDMA if there it's simply easier to make a single phone. Your initial argument that the Storm is a single model phone is a lie. There is the 9530 for North America and the 9500 for everywhere else.
Let's assume for a moment that you weren't mistaken about there being a single model phone and that it would work on every carrier's 3GSM in North America. If a "worldmode" phone was such an ideal method to R&D and manufacturer a single handset then why aren't these phones more common? Hell, why aren't all phones "worldmode"?
The simple fact is that there are plenty of trade offs with this design. Some might include, but not be limited to: increased chip cost, increased radio chip costs, increased R&D costs, hugely increased Qualcomm licensing costs, increased size of phones do to more HW, and increased power usage.