Oh, and the rapidly shrinking polar ice caps are a sign of global cooling.
Convoluted, fatulous logic to back up a democrat argument? Oh, those rapidly shrinking ice caps... maybe it's just the end process when the Earth was glacially covered during an earlier Ice Age and has nothing to do with Al Gores private jet polluting the atmosphere as he jet sets all over the world spreading his FUD! Talk about one "betraying their country"!!
Seems warming, cooling, cooling and warming is what this world does best despite man! \
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
Unless they plan on writing that pile of crap from scratch, they may have a chance. But I think they sat on their asses too long and now it's too late. HTML is easier to program for and with Flash you practically have to have a degree to use it, like most other Adobe products.
It's usually the people that don't know what they're talking about when they have to change the subject to something completely unrelated to the story for their own agenda.
Convoluted, fatulous logic to back up a democrat argument? Oh, those rapidly shrinking ice caps... maybe it's just the end process when the Earth was glacially covered during an earlier Ice Age and has nothing to do with Al Gores private jet polluting the atmosphere as he jet sets all over the world spreading his FUD! Talk about one "betraying their country"!!
Seems warming, cooling, cooling and warming is what this world does best despite man! \
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
I don't mind the odd moral debate (lets have a discussion on whether open standards is a moral or political issue), or even religious (usually funny) but lets cut the republican / democrat crap out of the forum. The out of context and vitriolistic outburst above is so needlessly inflammatory and is sure to derail the conversation and reduce it to mud-slinging. When an argument about Adobe's position vis a vis HTML5 manages to weave in global warming and effectively call Al Gore a traitor (we are only on post 30 or so!), it is time to take a step back. We have already sunk to elementary level debate.
...don't denounce Adobe (morally in the wrong as they may be) by using the rules to their advantage.
Participating in an open standards body is supposed to be about advancing the standard not self-interest. I know that is had for a corporation but this is so blatant.
I didn't think this would have been a story or I would have submitted it a couple days ago. Anyway, I think Canvas as a real threat is a ways off. There would need to be a proper development tool that is as easy as Flash, which will take awhile, but Adobe should be scared of this impending threat. They've already lost video streaming to HTML5; it's all down hill for Adobe on that front.
Adobe could've been interested in developing that tool and this is probably where they will end up anyways. Not that it can really save them though
It'll take a few years but Flash as a proprietary 'standard' is over. Adobe realise that iPhone/iPad platform will have enough mindshare for everyone to want their site to be compatible. Its happening already. If they want Flash to retain dominion they need to open-source that fucker right now and concentrate on making the Flash editor a first class application. Unfortunately that would expose the appalling code mess that I suspect it is.
Adobe will attempt to engineer Flash to compile into HTML/Javascript for web and iPhone/iPad apps (Flash CS5 will 'Publish to iPhone' apparently). Its possible that the Adobe objections are about ensuring that they can do that. The problem that I can see is that the engineering effort required by Adobe might not make economic sense.
Oh heck. It's all just another version of the Enron Tow Cows theory.
I am Apple. I have two cows. I give one to my neighbor, because I can.
I am Adobe. I have two cows. My neighbor has none. So?
I am Microsoft. I have two cows. I make a boatload of money selling really crappy software, but it somehow becomes the standard for corporate America. I want to help my starving neighbors, so I keep my two cows, but donate the bulk of my assets to "do good things" in faraway lands. My CPA loves me because I can write off the bulk of this, which in reality lets me keep more of my profits which lets me buy even more cows. But, I still don't give any cows to my neighbors.
There. That should do it. Now everyone will have something or some position they can be angry about. My work here is done.
Shouldn't Apple say something like "I am Apple. I have two cows. I sell them both to the neighbour with 60% margin and purchase 4 new ones from breeder in China"..?
No, honestly - isn't every corporation trying to protect what brings them money? Isn't Apple doing the same by preventing iDevices to sync with alternative media managers? Or by preventing people to run OSX on alternative (yet compatible) hardware?
We don't even know the reason for Adobe's objection. What if it is violation of Adobe's patents? Anyone really expects they should play Mother Teresa and let it be?
I'm a member of the HTML WG, but I'm not speaking for the HTML WG, or W3C. I'm only expressing my opinion, and what I know to be facts. I'm also not an employee of Google, Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, or any other company (I'm a writer, for O'Reilly).
There is no truth to this rumor. The posting here is inaccurate. Grossly inaccurate I would add.
This was an issue that has been under discussion, off and on, on the publicly accessible HTML WG for months. It has to do with scope and charter, not the specifications themselves. The Adobe representative to the HTML WG registered his concerns about the fact that the HTML WG is working on specifications that push, or exceed the group's charter. This includes Microdata, RDFa-in-HTML, and the 2D Canvas API.
Adobe is not blocking any specification. There are dozens of issues that are "blocking" HTML5, if you want to use that term, of which I'm responsible for many at this time. Technically the HTML5 specification can't advance to Last Call status until these issues are resolved. However, the W3C management can override my issues, and the issues of any individual or company. No one company can block the advancement of any specification without the concurrence of the W3C leadership.
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
I would hope that people would seek to get confirmation before posting unfounded accusations.
Say it isn't so Adobe! It's so a tragedy that a company I want to succeed because of their great products is resorting to sabotage HTML5. If this is what you want Adobe then is no more of my money for you.
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
To be fair, Hixie never specified Canvas in his blog.
Quote:
Next time I would ask that you all, please, withhold judgment until you actually have facts, rather than innuendo.
Not making emotion-filled rants based on little to no data is not what the internet is about. Welcome to the forum and thank you for voicing your PoV on this matter. I'm sure it's far from over.
I'm a member of the HTML WG, but I'm not speaking for the HTML WG, or W3C. I'm only expressing my opinion, and what I know to be facts. I'm also not an employee of Google, Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, or any other company (I'm a writer, for O'Reilly).
There is no truth to this rumor. The posting here is inaccurate. Grossly inaccurate I would add.
This was an issue that has been under discussion, off and on, on the publicly accessible HTML WG for months. It has to do with scope and charter, not the specifications themselves. The Adobe representative to the HTML WG registered his concerns about the fact that the HTML WG is working on specifications that push, or exceed the group's charter. This includes Microdata, RDFa-in-HTML, and the 2D Canvas API.
Adobe is not blocking any specification. There are dozens of issues that are "blocking" HTML5, if you want to use that term, of which I'm responsible for many at this time. Technically the HTML5 specification can't advance to Last Call status until these issues are resolved. However, the W3C management can override my issues, and the issues of any individual or company. No one company can block the advancement of any specification without the concurrence of the W3C leadership.
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
I would hope that people would seek to get confirmation before posting unfounded accusations.
Next time I would ask that you all, please, withhold judgment until you actually have facts, rather than innuendo.
Thank you very much.
Though I am around here for more than 18 months, I still get surprised how quickly some people get into defensive stance when they think someone might be trying to jeopardise beloved SJ's visions of the future.
Comments
Spare me the common Democratic mantra of stealing from Peter to pay Paul.
This is just the have-nots trying to grab from the haves without having to do any work themselves.
Convoluted, fatulous logic to back up a conservative argument? You betcha! Oh, and the rapidly shrinking polar ice caps are a sign of global cooling.
I'd love to hear your explaination of how the "have-nots" (Apple, Google, W3C, etc) are stealing from the "have" (Abode).
If this is true, they're the new Microsoft. If I were a web designer I would just hate them so much now.
Forget about us web designers, what about our clients who spent thousands on all Flash sites cause we told them it was the shit. Now it is shit.
Ed
Oh, and the rapidly shrinking polar ice caps are a sign of global cooling.
Convoluted, fatulous logic to back up a democrat argument? Oh, those rapidly shrinking ice caps... maybe it's just the end process when the Earth was glacially covered during an earlier Ice Age and has nothing to do with Al Gores private jet polluting the atmosphere as he jet sets all over the world spreading his FUD! Talk about one "betraying their country"!!
Seems warming, cooling, cooling and warming is what this world does best despite man!
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc130k.html
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
Idiot.
Microsoft = Internet Explorer
Netscape = Navigator
Idiot.
It's usually the people that don't know what they're talking about when they have to change the subject to something completely unrelated to the story for their own agenda.
Convoluted, fatulous logic to back up a democrat argument? Oh, those rapidly shrinking ice caps... maybe it's just the end process when the Earth was glacially covered during an earlier Ice Age and has nothing to do with Al Gores private jet polluting the atmosphere as he jet sets all over the world spreading his FUD! Talk about one "betraying their country"!!
Seems warming, cooling, cooling and warming is what this world does best despite man!
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc130k.html
I believe Adobe has a better chance at convincing me that the bugs in Flash will be corrected then Al Gore does at convincing me of his concluding arguments on Global Warming, oh wait, they are changing it to Climate Change so that if it's cold, it's man's fault, if it's warm it's man's fault, if it snows 30 inches in Washington, it's man's fault, if their are Summer droughts, it's man's fault, if there is a hurricane, it's man's fault...
I don't mind the odd moral debate (lets have a discussion on whether open standards is a moral or political issue), or even religious (usually funny) but lets cut the republican / democrat crap out of the forum. The out of context and vitriolistic outburst above is so needlessly inflammatory and is sure to derail the conversation and reduce it to mud-slinging. When an argument about Adobe's position vis a vis HTML5 manages to weave in global warming and effectively call Al Gore a traitor (we are only on post 30 or so!), it is time to take a step back. We have already sunk to elementary level debate.
...don't denounce Adobe (morally in the wrong as they may be) by using the rules to their advantage.
Participating in an open standards body is supposed to be about advancing the standard not self-interest. I know that is had for a corporation but this is so blatant.
If they don't like it, resign and fix Flash.
I didn't think this would have been a story or I would have submitted it a couple days ago. Anyway, I think Canvas as a real threat is a ways off. There would need to be a proper development tool that is as easy as Flash, which will take awhile, but Adobe should be scared of this impending threat. They've already lost video streaming to HTML5; it's all down hill for Adobe on that front.
Adobe could've been interested in developing that tool and this is probably where they will end up anyways. Not that it can really save them though
Adobe will attempt to engineer Flash to compile into HTML/Javascript for web and iPhone/iPad apps (Flash CS5 will 'Publish to iPhone' apparently). Its possible that the Adobe objections are about ensuring that they can do that. The problem that I can see is that the engineering effort required by Adobe might not make economic sense.
They spent > $4 Billion on a turd and want to grow that pile of crap.
Good point. It was $3.4 billion, btw. (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invr...acromedia.html).
Adobe started to go downhill after November 12, 2007. They no longer have the talent.
Ed
Why? What is so important about that specific date?
Oh heck. It's all just another version of the Enron Tow Cows theory.
I am Apple. I have two cows. I give one to my neighbor, because I can.
I am Adobe. I have two cows. My neighbor has none. So?
I am Microsoft. I have two cows. I make a boatload of money selling really crappy software, but it somehow becomes the standard for corporate America. I want to help my starving neighbors, so I keep my two cows, but donate the bulk of my assets to "do good things" in faraway lands. My CPA loves me because I can write off the bulk of this, which in reality lets me keep more of my profits which lets me buy even more cows. But, I still don't give any cows to my neighbors.
There. That should do it. Now everyone will have something or some position they can be angry about. My work here is done.
Shouldn't Apple say something like "I am Apple. I have two cows. I sell them both to the neighbour with 60% margin and purchase 4 new ones from breeder in China"..?
No, honestly - isn't every corporation trying to protect what brings them money? Isn't Apple doing the same by preventing iDevices to sync with alternative media managers? Or by preventing people to run OSX on alternative (yet compatible) hardware?
We don't even know the reason for Adobe's objection. What if it is violation of Adobe's patents? Anyone really expects they should play Mother Teresa and let it be?
Really?
There is no truth to this rumor. The posting here is inaccurate. Grossly inaccurate I would add.
This was an issue that has been under discussion, off and on, on the publicly accessible HTML WG for months. It has to do with scope and charter, not the specifications themselves. The Adobe representative to the HTML WG registered his concerns about the fact that the HTML WG is working on specifications that push, or exceed the group's charter. This includes Microdata, RDFa-in-HTML, and the 2D Canvas API.
Adobe is not blocking any specification. There are dozens of issues that are "blocking" HTML5, if you want to use that term, of which I'm responsible for many at this time. Technically the HTML5 specification can't advance to Last Call status until these issues are resolved. However, the W3C management can override my issues, and the issues of any individual or company. No one company can block the advancement of any specification without the concurrence of the W3C leadership.
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
I would hope that people would seek to get confirmation before posting unfounded accusations.
The HTML WG thread related to this issue:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/...0Feb/0349.html
The Adobe Rep's initial concerns:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/...0Feb/0006.html
Next time I would ask that you all, please, withhold judgment until you actually have facts, rather than innuendo.
The notion that Adobe is trying to "sabotage" HTML5 is utterly ridiculous and unfounded.
Let me help you with that whole "homework" thing you didn't bother to do before parrot-phrasing Gruber.
http://www.osnews.com/story/22874/Te...ocking_HTML5_/
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
To be fair, Hixie never specified Canvas in his blog.
Next time I would ask that you all, please, withhold judgment until you actually have facts, rather than innuendo.
Not making emotion-filled rants based on little to no data is not what the internet is about.
I'm a member of the HTML WG, but I'm not speaking for the HTML WG, or W3C. I'm only expressing my opinion, and what I know to be facts. I'm also not an employee of Google, Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, or any other company (I'm a writer, for O'Reilly).
There is no truth to this rumor. The posting here is inaccurate. Grossly inaccurate I would add.
This was an issue that has been under discussion, off and on, on the publicly accessible HTML WG for months. It has to do with scope and charter, not the specifications themselves. The Adobe representative to the HTML WG registered his concerns about the fact that the HTML WG is working on specifications that push, or exceed the group's charter. This includes Microdata, RDFa-in-HTML, and the 2D Canvas API.
Adobe is not blocking any specification. There are dozens of issues that are "blocking" HTML5, if you want to use that term, of which I'm responsible for many at this time. Technically the HTML5 specification can't advance to Last Call status until these issues are resolved. However, the W3C management can override my issues, and the issues of any individual or company. No one company can block the advancement of any specification without the concurrence of the W3C leadership.
All of these issues are based on improving all of the specifications, including HTML5 and Canvas. it's unfortunate that the HTML5 editor, who is also the Google representative to the HTML WG introduced such wild, and unfounded speculation, causing harm not only to the Adobe representative, but distracting all of us from the work of finishing the HTML5 and other specifications.
I would hope that people would seek to get confirmation before posting unfounded accusations.
The HTML WG thread related to this issue:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/...0Feb/0349.html
The Adobe Rep's initial concerns:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/...0Feb/0006.html
Next time I would ask that you all, please, withhold judgment until you actually have facts, rather than innuendo.
Thank you very much.
Though I am around here for more than 18 months, I still get surprised how quickly some people get into defensive stance when they think someone might be trying to jeopardise beloved SJ's visions of the future.