rules are made to be broken, so i think that personal attacks on vacuous twat-heads like igenius should be tolerated. In fact, i think they should be encouraged. Add agnesyoung and tekstub to the list too.
You think it's so easy to create a new paradigm from scratch yet only iPhone OS has a complete copy/paste setup. Not Android. Not WebOS. Not BB. Not WinMo.
If the developer who made the first 3rd-party app with copy/paste acknoledges the undertaking then why can't you?
Well to be fair, Apple employes a great number of highly qualified programmers, if they do not have the talent to add something like copy/paste then you have to worry about the quality of all their creations. And to finish it off, Steve Jobs would say it is easy, just do it.
I have a 3rd party app running all the time in the background of my Nokia phone, it performs functionality based on the current location I am in, why do you assume someone has to use the interface on both applications at the same time?
How do you expect to work on two apps at the same time on a 3.5" display?
Simple: You swipe back and forth between your two open apps not continually relaunching them which is like totally idiotic. You should be able to swipe the same way you do to get the "search" page.
Simple: You swipe back and forth between your two open apps not continually relaunching them which is like totally idiotic. You should be able to swipe the same way you do to get the "search" page.
Oh, so now it is about how you move between apps not the act of multitasking?! They are two different issues. Do you know what multitasking is?!
Oh, so now it is about how you move between apps not the act of multitasking?! They are two different issues. Do you know what multitasking is?!
His "swiping" method won't work in every app. There are plenty of apps that use swiping methods to move within the app itself. Safari and Maps, for example. I suppose he'll make some excuse that Apple can change the way those work after 3 years or that he meant multi-finger swipes, which is something I've been mentioning for a year... but it's now his idea.
His "swiping" method won't work in every app. There are plenty of apps that use swiping methods to move within the app itself. Safari and Maps, for example. I suppose he'll make some excuse that Apple can change the way those work after 3 years or that he meant multi-finger swipes, which is something I've been mentioning for a year... but it's now his idea.
Well, I don't know how it is a problem if you click the Home button to hide Mail and then touch an icon to show Safari and vice versa. To me this two-step method (assuming your app is on the same page) is not better nor worst than swiping (Palm Pre Cards), though the later look better visually. And what difference does it make if your goal is to have the app perform some tasks in the background while working on something else?
We all know that multitasking is coming. It is just a matter of time.
Well, I don't know how it is a problem if you click the Home button to hide Mail and then touch an icon to show Safari and vice versa. To me this two-step method (assuming your app is on the same page) is not better nor worst than swiping (Palm Pre Cards), though the later look better visually. And what difference does it make if your goal is to have the app perform some tasks in the background while working on something else?
We all know that multitasking is coming. It is just a matter of time.
So now you admit "it's coming"- make up youtr mind please. Either it's there now or it isn't.
Later - no time for this game or the vacationer who's now stolen my idea.
So now you admit "it's coming"- make up youtr mind please. Either it's there now or it isn't.
Later - no time for this game or the vacationer who's now stolen my idea.
Stop the act. You know we are talking about 3rd party apps multitasking. And I never said multitasking is not coming. SJ himself said they will implement multitasking when they get it right.
Yes and you obviously don't if you think some phantom working app in the background is.
You really need to read the article. You have no idea what multitasking mean.
Quote:
I'm talking about me multitasking not the device with some hidden working app in the background.
I don't think Apple make software for the human brain
Seriously though, how do you expect to multitask when you can't see both apps on the same screen at the same time?! Even when you swipe away an app (like Palm Pre) the app will not be visible for you to interact with. So no matter what, you will alway see one app at a time.
I am not going to waste more time with you since you start going in circles again.
Let's analyse this... I made a comparison to the API used in the PNS on the iPhone as a intelligent method for App Store apps as a model for making backgrounding of App Store apps intelligent on the iPhone. You followed up with an odd comment about system notifications. Once that was pointed out, you defended your initial post by stating Android also has a PNS despite that never being in question or a part of the conversation. WTH?!
Firstly, APNS is a workaround because there is no ability for an app to be running in the background so it can alert you/do something on an event/period etc. Secondly, once the app gets the alert, it pops up a dialog. What I was trying to get at was that there is nothing "brilliant" about the PNS.
Firstly, APNS is a workaround because there is no ability for an app to be running in the background so it can alert you/do something on an event/period etc. Secondly, once the app gets the alert, it pops up a dialog. What I was trying to get at was that there is nothing "brilliant" about the PNS.
You think the concept is such a flawed model yet both Palm and Android followed Apple's lead in this clever method to use a single process to get updates to an unlimited number of apps. I have 5 running with PNS, can you guess how well my phone would run if I had all those apps pointless running in the background when all it's it's doing is waiting for a simple message? Can you then guess how that would affect the useful life of my phone between updates? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this crap.
To come at this another way, if you think it's just a "workaround" then you're claiming that it will be removed once backgrounding is enabled because in your opinion it has absolutely no use. If you say it will be removed then you corner yourself because two other OSes have both. If you say it won't be removed, you must mean it has merit so you back yourself into another corner because it's not the pointless API that you made it out to be.
BTW, top notch backpedaling, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
I would have thought that multitasking needs the right UI mechanism. I would think this is the key issue torturing SJ.
People have gotten into the habit of just homing and presuming that the ex app has no impact.
I suppose we could see a scrollable dock along the lower edge replacing the 4 "usual suspects" we have now. Might be that this is where you drag your "blessed for concurrency" applications, or that after a divider are kept the blessed apps.
Maybe blessing is done the same way you move/delete. Keep finger on a badge, they jiggle and in the lower right corner is a place to touch to bless them for concurrent running. They then appear in the scrollable "usual suspects" dock along the bottom and a small triangle will appear under them if they are running.
You think the concept is such a flawed model yet both Palm and Android followed Apple's lead in this clever method to use a single process to get updates to an unlimited number of apps. I have 5 running with PNS, can you guess how well my phone would run if I had all those apps pointless running in the background when all it's it's doing is waiting for a simple message? Can you then guess how that would affect the useful life of my phone between updates? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this crap.
To come at this another way, if you think it's just a "workaround" then you're claiming that it will be removed once backgrounding is enabled because in your opinion it has absolutely no use. If you say it will be removed then you corner yourself because two other OSes have both. If you say it won't be removed, you must mean it has merit so you back yourself into another corner because it's not the pointless API that you made it out to be.
BTW, top notch backpedaling, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
I have no idea what Palm does. But I use and code Android apps. AFAIK, there is no such thing as PNS on the Android. Can you point me to some link on this? I certainly have never used it nor do I use any app that uses it. I can't imagine why I would need to do this. If the app is busy (eg. downloading a file - like Google Listen) then obviously it's not pointlessly running in the background. If the app is merely waiting on an event (calendar, location), it's suspended and not running in the background - pointlessly or otherwise. All processes and "Activities" on the Android are managed by the OS. If you are interested, you can check out the "Activity lifecycle" section of http://developer.android.com/guide/t...damentals.html
Remember that nothing gets started on its own (except services). You have complete control over what apps will be running. The G1 has an awful battery life, but it's obviously a hardware issue and not a multitasking issue since the Droid seems to chew up the battery at about the same rate as the 3GS in spite of having a better display and a faster processor.
iGenius, what were you just saying about personal attacks? You're obviously just trying trying to start an argument.... The original Google G1 phone was laughable, they inovated and did some interesting things Apple will do the same.
I did not take that personally, I believe he ment my demografic of advanced computer user and I get that totally. But I really feel that Apple covers my demographic in the computer section but why not my smartphone needs (yeah i have the iphone...)? BUT i seriously still think apple can deliver its own different and better suited alternative backgrounding option for advanced users. WITHOUT effecting the soccermom user experience. I think they want more money and will try to eventually sell more phones, thats my bet anyway. I dont buy that demographic thing without doubt though. Why would they include Cisco VPN client or exchange support if it wasnt for advanced busines users?
I understand that the topic is very difficult as many have problems with memory running out on other phones. BUT if you have some limits the difference cant be that catastrophical on battery life. Aleast you can give it as a choice the advanced users can make (wont hear me complaining about battery life if i chose to use that feature). Atleast you could give it as an advanced option in the preferences. Those that care will find how to turn it on... And those who dont need it wont find it...
Wow the last few post have actually had some merritt and substance ... Well done.
Now as for the idea of advanced features I'll take it one further.
Why not introduce a "pro" model?
This can have multitasking and all the extras people are screaming about.
The standard iPhone would have the same specs (maybe a little slower) but your average Joe user won't care. It's still an iPhone and does everything you want it too.
It would stop 90% of the infighting in these and similar forums.
Comments
rules are made to be broken, so i think that personal attacks on vacuous twat-heads like igenius should be tolerated. In fact, i think they should be encouraged. Add agnesyoung and tekstub to the list too.
developers developers developers developers
You think it's so easy to create a new paradigm from scratch yet only iPhone OS has a complete copy/paste setup. Not Android. Not WebOS. Not BB. Not WinMo.
If the developer who made the first 3rd-party app with copy/paste acknoledges the undertaking then why can't you?
Well to be fair, Apple employes a great number of highly qualified programmers, if they do not have the talent to add something like copy/paste then you have to worry about the quality of all their creations. And to finish it off, Steve Jobs would say it is easy, just do it.
I have a 3rd party app running all the time in the background of my Nokia phone, it performs functionality based on the current location I am in, why do you assume someone has to use the interface on both applications at the same time?
I don't. TEKSTUD does. Read the earlier posts.
How do you expect to work on two apps at the same time on a 3.5" display?
Simple: You swipe back and forth between your two open apps not continually relaunching them which is like totally idiotic. You should be able to swipe the same way you do to get the "search" page.
Simple: You swipe back and forth between your two open apps not continually relaunching them which is like totally idiotic. You should be able to swipe the same way you do to get the "search" page.
Oh, so now it is about how you move between apps not the act of multitasking?! They are two different issues. Do you know what multitasking is?!
which is like totally idiotic. .
And despite this, you purchased a 3GS?
Oh, so now it is about how you move between apps not the act of multitasking?! They are two different issues. Do you know what multitasking is?!
His "swiping" method won't work in every app. There are plenty of apps that use swiping methods to move within the app itself. Safari and Maps, for example. I suppose he'll make some excuse that Apple can change the way those work after 3 years or that he meant multi-finger swipes, which is something I've been mentioning for a year... but it's now his idea.
His "swiping" method won't work in every app. There are plenty of apps that use swiping methods to move within the app itself. Safari and Maps, for example. I suppose he'll make some excuse that Apple can change the way those work after 3 years or that he meant multi-finger swipes, which is something I've been mentioning for a year... but it's now his idea.
Well, I don't know how it is a problem if you click the Home button to hide Mail and then touch an icon to show Safari and vice versa. To me this two-step method (assuming your app is on the same page) is not better nor worst than swiping (Palm Pre Cards), though the later look better visually. And what difference does it make if your goal is to have the app perform some tasks in the background while working on something else?
We all know that multitasking is coming. It is just a matter of time.
Oh, so now it is about how you move between apps not the act of multitasking?! They are two different issues. Do you know what multitasking is?!
Yes and you obviously don't if you think some phantom working app in the background is.
I'm talking about me multitasking not the device with some hidden working app in the background.
Well, I don't know how it is a problem if you click the Home button to hide Mail and then touch an icon to show Safari and vice versa. To me this two-step method (assuming your app is on the same page) is not better nor worst than swiping (Palm Pre Cards), though the later look better visually. And what difference does it make if your goal is to have the app perform some tasks in the background while working on something else?
We all know that multitasking is coming. It is just a matter of time.
So now you admit "it's coming"- make up youtr mind please. Either it's there now or it isn't.
Later - no time for this game or the vacationer who's now stolen my idea.
And despite this, you purchased a 3GS?
What does that have to do with purchasing a 3GS?
So now you admit "it's coming"- make up youtr mind please. Either it's there now or it isn't.
Later - no time for this game or the vacationer who's now stolen my idea.
Stop the act. You know we are talking about 3rd party apps multitasking. And I never said multitasking is not coming. SJ himself said they will implement multitasking when they get it right.
Yes and you obviously don't if you think some phantom working app in the background is.
You really need to read the article. You have no idea what multitasking mean.
I'm talking about me multitasking not the device with some hidden working app in the background.
I don't think Apple make software for the human brain
Seriously though, how do you expect to multitask when you can't see both apps on the same screen at the same time?! Even when you swipe away an app (like Palm Pre) the app will not be visible for you to interact with. So no matter what, you will alway see one app at a time.
I am not going to waste more time with you since you start going in circles again.
Let's analyse this... I made a comparison to the API used in the PNS on the iPhone as a intelligent method for App Store apps as a model for making backgrounding of App Store apps intelligent on the iPhone. You followed up with an odd comment about system notifications. Once that was pointed out, you defended your initial post by stating Android also has a PNS despite that never being in question or a part of the conversation. WTH?!
Firstly, APNS is a workaround because there is no ability for an app to be running in the background so it can alert you/do something on an event/period etc. Secondly, once the app gets the alert, it pops up a dialog. What I was trying to get at was that there is nothing "brilliant" about the PNS.
Firstly, APNS is a workaround because there is no ability for an app to be running in the background so it can alert you/do something on an event/period etc. Secondly, once the app gets the alert, it pops up a dialog. What I was trying to get at was that there is nothing "brilliant" about the PNS.
You think the concept is such a flawed model yet both Palm and Android followed Apple's lead in this clever method to use a single process to get updates to an unlimited number of apps. I have 5 running with PNS, can you guess how well my phone would run if I had all those apps pointless running in the background when all it's it's doing is waiting for a simple message? Can you then guess how that would affect the useful life of my phone between updates? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this crap.
To come at this another way, if you think it's just a "workaround" then you're claiming that it will be removed once backgrounding is enabled because in your opinion it has absolutely no use. If you say it will be removed then you corner yourself because two other OSes have both. If you say it won't be removed, you must mean it has merit so you back yourself into another corner because it's not the pointless API that you made it out to be.
BTW, top notch backpedaling, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
.....BTW, top notch backpedaling, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
Solipsism FTW
Well played good sir.
People have gotten into the habit of just homing and presuming that the ex app has no impact.
I suppose we could see a scrollable dock along the lower edge replacing the 4 "usual suspects" we have now. Might be that this is where you drag your "blessed for concurrency" applications, or that after a divider are kept the blessed apps.
Maybe blessing is done the same way you move/delete. Keep finger on a badge, they jiggle and in the lower right corner is a place to touch to bless them for concurrent running. They then appear in the scrollable "usual suspects" dock along the bottom and a small triangle will appear under them if they are running.
Just my $0.02
You think the concept is such a flawed model yet both Palm and Android followed Apple's lead in this clever method to use a single process to get updates to an unlimited number of apps. I have 5 running with PNS, can you guess how well my phone would run if I had all those apps pointless running in the background when all it's it's doing is waiting for a simple message? Can you then guess how that would affect the useful life of my phone between updates? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this crap.
To come at this another way, if you think it's just a "workaround" then you're claiming that it will be removed once backgrounding is enabled because in your opinion it has absolutely no use. If you say it will be removed then you corner yourself because two other OSes have both. If you say it won't be removed, you must mean it has merit so you back yourself into another corner because it's not the pointless API that you made it out to be.
BTW, top notch backpedaling, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
I have no idea what Palm does. But I use and code Android apps. AFAIK, there is no such thing as PNS on the Android. Can you point me to some link on this? I certainly have never used it nor do I use any app that uses it. I can't imagine why I would need to do this. If the app is busy (eg. downloading a file - like Google Listen) then obviously it's not pointlessly running in the background. If the app is merely waiting on an event (calendar, location), it's suspended and not running in the background - pointlessly or otherwise. All processes and "Activities" on the Android are managed by the OS. If you are interested, you can check out the "Activity lifecycle" section of http://developer.android.com/guide/t...damentals.html
Remember that nothing gets started on its own (except services). You have complete control over what apps will be running. The G1 has an awful battery life, but it's obviously a hardware issue and not a multitasking issue since the Droid seems to chew up the battery at about the same rate as the 3GS in spite of having a better display and a faster processor.
iGenius, what were you just saying about personal attacks? You're obviously just trying trying to start an argument.... The original Google G1 phone was laughable, they inovated and did some interesting things Apple will do the same.
I did not take that personally, I believe he ment my demografic of advanced computer user and I get that totally. But I really feel that Apple covers my demographic in the computer section but why not my smartphone needs (yeah i have the iphone...)? BUT i seriously still think apple can deliver its own different and better suited alternative backgrounding option for advanced users. WITHOUT effecting the soccermom user experience. I think they want more money and will try to eventually sell more phones, thats my bet anyway. I dont buy that demographic thing without doubt though. Why would they include Cisco VPN client or exchange support if it wasnt for advanced busines users?
I understand that the topic is very difficult as many have problems with memory running out on other phones. BUT if you have some limits the difference cant be that catastrophical on battery life. Aleast you can give it as a choice the advanced users can make (wont hear me complaining about battery life if i chose to use that feature). Atleast you could give it as an advanced option in the preferences. Those that care will find how to turn it on... And those who dont need it wont find it...
Now as for the idea of advanced features I'll take it one further.
Why not introduce a "pro" model?
This can have multitasking and all the extras people are screaming about.
The standard iPhone would have the same specs (maybe a little slower) but your average Joe user won't care. It's still an iPhone and does everything you want it too.
It would stop 90% of the infighting in these and similar forums.
Just an idea.