I don't see this as a popular solution. As a matter of fact I think it's stupid. Why have two chips when they can just have one and throttle it up or down as needed just like a regular CPU?
That's what happens on my late 2008 MacBook Pro with nvidia 8600 GT. My old PowerBook G4 with ATi Radeon 9600 did that even better. Seems to me Apple is going one step forward, 5 steps back. I'd hate to have to keep logging in and out just so I could use a graphics intensive application, then log out and in again when I don't. Glad I didn't upgrade.
As a non-Mac user switching back to Macs after a 15-year absence, I just want the hardware now. I'd be happier to get an MBP with an unfinished Nvidia driver than wait any longer. They can always send out software fixes later. I simply cannot stand Windows any longer! It is so horrible. And yet I can't buy a Macbook, which is not so badly priced at $900, because I need more than 4GB RAM. Please Apple, end my pain.
20+ years ago, I started my work in the tech field supporting Macintoshes in a University Lab. I was never able to afford or justify buying a Mac, until last fall when I bought a 27" iMac. And a Mac Mini to replace my wifes aging/failing HP desktop.
I agree with you on the 'can't stand' sentiment. I've been in the tech field for, well, 20+ years. And I've had enough of Microsofts crap.
Examples:
At work, to reboot the PC takes 8-10 minutes. My Mac? 120 seconds.
Operatings system load on RAM? WinXP Pro (32bit) 742 meg. OSX (64 bit) 540 meg.
Systems Crashs, application freezes, PC 3 vs. OSX 0.083 per Week.
Patches Applied per week: PC Avg 4.4 vs. OS.X 0.33 per week.
My next notebook, a Mac. my next tech toy? iPad. Now looking for a job where I can use a Mac at work.
I hope the 13 inch gets some hybrid graphics love. Arrandale's IGP is pretty good, coming from Intel, but still a step down from the 9400M. Apple wouldn't sell a downgrade, would they?
...
Would they?
Anyways, about damn time for the processor upgrade. 2000 dollars for a notebook with a Core 2 Duo and a 9400m is just calling your customers stupid. i5's have made it into sub-900 dollar laptops.
Yes, the Intel IGP is wimpy, but people seem to forget that Apple can still put whatever discrete gpu they want into the MacBook Pro... and Nvidia's Optimus tech is a likely candidate.
And you seem to forget that Apple likes to sell MacBooks and Mac Minis with integrated graphics only. The Intel / Nvidia issue affects all Macs that use integrated graphics. Even the MacBook Pro is not immune because the 13 inch MacBook Pro has integrated graphics only. Without a competing integrated graphics solution from Nvidia, what's Apple going to do? Start spinning the "wimpy" Intel IGP as superior in performance to what Nvidia can provide, and bring back that "incredible value proposition" marketing BS that they used when referring to Intel integrated graphics in the first Intel Mac Mini?
I was never able to afford or justify buying a Mac, until last fall when I bought a 27" iMac..
I recently decided to calculate what I've spent on computers short-term. I realized I went through a series of low-end PC laptops. Over just the last 4 years I owned 7 laptops, total outlays ~$3500. I generally sold each for about 2/3 of purchase price, so I lost roughly $1200. If I continue using PCs I know I will sell each within a year of purchase. I want to use a mature, visually appealing operating system based on a Unix variant, based on solid, well-designed portable hardware, and the only thing for that is Mac OS/X running on an Apple laptop. (I could rant about Linux but there is no point.)
My powerbook 1.5Gb--still running Tiger--is wheezing its last. Waking it up evokes a 15-30-second arpeggio of cacophonous clicking and clanking--the hard drive icon disappeared from the desktop ages ago; it is so clearly circling the drain (i'm running off the external hard drive, btw) that I put a mirror under its nose hourly to see if it's still breathing, so you couldn't be more desperate than me for the release of the next gens
Considering Sony's new Z series of Vaio notebooks can auto-switch GPUs, I would certainly expect Apple to offer a similar solution. It's a shame the current MBPS can't already...
It is a shame. Of all the companies out there you'd think the one that makes the HW and OS would have figured out a way to tackle this problem before it's an option on Windows.
It is a shame. Of all the companies out there you'd think the one that makes the HW and OS would have figured out a way to tackle this problem before it's an option on Windows.
Isn't this a software problem essentially? AFAIK Windows 7 can switch transparently between multiple GPUs on current MacBook Pros due to Microsoft's ingenious abstractions of the actual graphic hardware. I don't expect this kind of functionality on OS X before 10.7 as it likely requires large changes to the graphic layer. Hopefully Apple will not try to tie this to new hardware only but sadly such a stunt can't be ruled out. \
My ... i am hoping this is only part 1 of the upgrades.
Its time Apple integrated Blu-Ray into MBP's. at least on the higher end models. give the consumers the options to decide between.
also, would be great if they brough back matte screens, a real version of it.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market. I do agree that it would be nice to have blu-ray on my Santa Rosa MBP. Now would I be able to take out the SuperDrive and swap it for a SuperBlu? Who knows, but I doubt it. That would suck.
Isn't this a software problem essentially? AFAIK Windows 7 can switch transparently between multiple GPUs on current MacBook Pros due to Microsoft's ingenious abstractions of the actual graphic hardware. I don't expect this kind of functionality on OS X before 10.7 as it likely requires large changes to the graphic layer. Hopefully Apple will not try to tie this to new hardware only but sadly such a stunt can't be ruled out. \
Don't think this change would require 10.7. The real issue is OS X compatible drivers from Nvidia/Intel. Most likely Windows got it first because they are bigger but with the 9400 being on all the recent Macbooks you can bet Nvidia are trying to sell something beyond Intel's IGP to Apple to juice the graphics. Apple will support discrete graphics at least on the higher end macbook pro where they can charge for the extra silicon. On the macbook the Intel IGP is probably good enough. The 13"" Aluminum is interesting because it carrier the PRO nomenclature it should include PRO features like discrete graphics.
As far as changes to the graphics layer. Both OSX and Windows abstract the hardware which means you can use different vendors product and they work fine.
And you seem to forget that Apple likes to sell MacBooks and Mac Minis with integrated graphics only. The Intel / Nvidia issue affects all Macs that use integrated graphics. Even the MacBook Pro is not immune because the 13 inch MacBook Pro has integrated graphics only. Without a competing integrated graphics solution from Nvidia, what's Apple going to do? Start spinning the "wimpy" Intel IGP as superior in performance to what Nvidia can provide, and bring back that "incredible value proposition" marketing BS that they used when referring to Intel integrated graphics in the first Intel Mac Mini?
Some current versions have integrated graphics only, there is no rule stating that they have to have remain that way in the future. It will be interesting to see how Apple handles this.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market.
No it wouldn't, that's what's so hilarious and frustrating about Apple's horrible stance on Blu-Ray. I mean, does anyone believe that iTunes' crappy "HD" seriously competes with Blu-Ray's quality? The two products are aimed at completely different customers! iTunes-movies are all about convenience, not about quality, and Blu-Ray is simply about offering the best quality with no compromises. The two formats do not compete, they complement each other. They will only start competing once Apple offers true 1080p in their iTunes store. (and once the iTunes store offers video content outside the US. The world does not consist of the United States).
It looks like the NV Opt. tech would be the way to go for Arrandale MBPs. Hopefully this has all been in the works for a while and they are ready to deliver soon.
It would be really low to hold off product releases until after the iPad.
Shouldn't we have word within a few days now if Apple is planning any sort of March event?
I just wish they'd hurry the heck up and get the new i5/i7 Arrandale MBP's out soon... selling the current models with Core 2 Duo at those prices is criminal. C'mon Apple, put the "Pro" back in MacBook Pro!
I know 3 people waiting and waiting- one may buy a Sony instead this weekend.
No it wouldn't, that's what's so hilarious and frustrating about Apple's horrible stance on Blu-Ray. I mean, does anyone believe that iTunes' crappy "HD" seriously competes with Blu-Ray's quality? The two products are aimed at completely different customers! iTunes-movies are all about convenience, not about quality, and Blu-Ray is simply about offering the best quality with no compromises. The two formats do not compete, they complement each other. They will only start competing once Apple offers true 1080p in their iTunes store. (and once the iTunes store offers video content outside the US. The world does not consist of the United States).
Please Don't get me started on this. I've stated this over and over for 2 years now since the HD format war ended.
Let's see - how long did it take Apple to get SD flash drives?
...This differs from the company's existing MacBook Pro lineup, which requires users to manually toggle between an integrated Nvidia GeForce 9400M graphics core and the more powerful 9600M GT discrete processor by first making a selection in their Mac's Energy Saver system preference pane, then logging out and back in for the change to take effect (as shown below)...
This statement is not correct, because even though my new 13" is part of the MacBook Pro lineup, it does not have the 9600 GPU.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market. I do agree that it would be nice to have blu-ray on my Santa Rosa MBP. Now would I be able to take out the SuperDrive and swap it for a SuperBlu? Who knows, but I doubt it. That would suck.
i agree. but it is frustrating to have Blu-Ray get stonewalled by corporate agenda instead of putting the customers first.
its beyond ridiculous that Blu-Ray has Digital Copies of movies for itunes, but itunes is showing no love back to BD. Apple just doesn't want BD.
And don't get me started on General Mao... he can license almost anything he wants. music/movies/books etc.... but its only when he has a corporate agenda do they stonewall Blu-Ray.
sad to say, if apple made a MBP with a BD Superdrive... i'd buy it in an instant. but Apple just won't let me buy that.
alot of us need BD for storage also, ie backing up photography and video to BD discs. getting them off hard drives.
Comments
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post
I don't see this as a popular solution. As a matter of fact I think it's stupid. Why have two chips when they can just have one and throttle it up or down as needed just like a regular CPU?
That's what happens on my late 2008 MacBook Pro with nvidia 8600 GT. My old PowerBook G4 with ATi Radeon 9600 did that even better. Seems to me Apple is going one step forward, 5 steps back. I'd hate to have to keep logging in and out just so I could use a graphics intensive application, then log out and in again when I don't. Glad I didn't upgrade.
As a non-Mac user switching back to Macs after a 15-year absence, I just want the hardware now. I'd be happier to get an MBP with an unfinished Nvidia driver than wait any longer. They can always send out software fixes later. I simply cannot stand Windows any longer! It is so horrible. And yet I can't buy a Macbook, which is not so badly priced at $900, because I need more than 4GB RAM. Please Apple, end my pain.
20+ years ago, I started my work in the tech field supporting Macintoshes in a University Lab. I was never able to afford or justify buying a Mac, until last fall when I bought a 27" iMac. And a Mac Mini to replace my wifes aging/failing HP desktop.
I agree with you on the 'can't stand' sentiment. I've been in the tech field for, well, 20+ years. And I've had enough of Microsofts crap.
Examples:
At work, to reboot the PC takes 8-10 minutes. My Mac? 120 seconds.
Operatings system load on RAM? WinXP Pro (32bit) 742 meg. OSX (64 bit) 540 meg.
Systems Crashs, application freezes, PC 3 vs. OSX 0.083 per Week.
Patches Applied per week: PC Avg 4.4 vs. OS.X 0.33 per week.
My next notebook, a Mac. my next tech toy? iPad. Now looking for a job where I can use a Mac at work.
...
Would they?
Anyways, about damn time for the processor upgrade. 2000 dollars for a notebook with a Core 2 Duo and a 9400m is just calling your customers stupid. i5's have made it into sub-900 dollar laptops.
Yes, the Intel IGP is wimpy, but people seem to forget that Apple can still put whatever discrete gpu they want into the MacBook Pro... and Nvidia's Optimus tech is a likely candidate.
And you seem to forget that Apple likes to sell MacBooks and Mac Minis with integrated graphics only. The Intel / Nvidia issue affects all Macs that use integrated graphics. Even the MacBook Pro is not immune because the 13 inch MacBook Pro has integrated graphics only. Without a competing integrated graphics solution from Nvidia, what's Apple going to do? Start spinning the "wimpy" Intel IGP as superior in performance to what Nvidia can provide, and bring back that "incredible value proposition" marketing BS that they used when referring to Intel integrated graphics in the first Intel Mac Mini?
I was never able to afford or justify buying a Mac, until last fall when I bought a 27" iMac..
I recently decided to calculate what I've spent on computers short-term. I realized I went through a series of low-end PC laptops. Over just the last 4 years I owned 7 laptops, total outlays ~$3500. I generally sold each for about 2/3 of purchase price, so I lost roughly $1200. If I continue using PCs I know I will sell each within a year of purchase. I want to use a mature, visually appealing operating system based on a Unix variant, based on solid, well-designed portable hardware, and the only thing for that is Mac OS/X running on an Apple laptop. (I could rant about Linux but there is no point.)
just do it already!
Considering Sony's new Z series of Vaio notebooks can auto-switch GPUs, I would certainly expect Apple to offer a similar solution. It's a shame the current MBPS can't already...
It is a shame. Of all the companies out there you'd think the one that makes the HW and OS would have figured out a way to tackle this problem before it's an option on Windows.
Its time Apple integrated Blu-Ray into MBP's. at least on the higher end models. give the consumers the options to decide between.
also, would be great if they brough back matte screens, a real version of it.
It is a shame. Of all the companies out there you'd think the one that makes the HW and OS would have figured out a way to tackle this problem before it's an option on Windows.
Isn't this a software problem essentially? AFAIK Windows 7 can switch transparently between multiple GPUs on current MacBook Pros due to Microsoft's ingenious abstractions of the actual graphic hardware. I don't expect this kind of functionality on OS X before 10.7 as it likely requires large changes to the graphic layer. Hopefully Apple will not try to tie this to new hardware only but sadly such a stunt can't be ruled out.
My ... i am hoping this is only part 1 of the upgrades.
Its time Apple integrated Blu-Ray into MBP's. at least on the higher end models. give the consumers the options to decide between.
also, would be great if they brough back matte screens, a real version of it.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market. I do agree that it would be nice to have blu-ray on my Santa Rosa MBP. Now would I be able to take out the SuperDrive and swap it for a SuperBlu? Who knows, but I doubt it. That would suck.
Isn't this a software problem essentially? AFAIK Windows 7 can switch transparently between multiple GPUs on current MacBook Pros due to Microsoft's ingenious abstractions of the actual graphic hardware. I don't expect this kind of functionality on OS X before 10.7 as it likely requires large changes to the graphic layer. Hopefully Apple will not try to tie this to new hardware only but sadly such a stunt can't be ruled out.
Don't think this change would require 10.7. The real issue is OS X compatible drivers from Nvidia/Intel. Most likely Windows got it first because they are bigger but with the 9400 being on all the recent Macbooks you can bet Nvidia are trying to sell something beyond Intel's IGP to Apple to juice the graphics. Apple will support discrete graphics at least on the higher end macbook pro where they can charge for the extra silicon. On the macbook the Intel IGP is probably good enough. The 13"" Aluminum is interesting because it carrier the PRO nomenclature it should include PRO features like discrete graphics.
As far as changes to the graphics layer. Both OSX and Windows abstract the hardware which means you can use different vendors product and they work fine.
I'm not sure what ATIs mobile CPUs are like, but their desktop ones run extremely hot, which is perhaps why Apple's not using them in their portables.
Not the latest generation. No idea about their mobile graphics though. Nvidia definitely has an edge in power savings with this technology though.
And you seem to forget that Apple likes to sell MacBooks and Mac Minis with integrated graphics only. The Intel / Nvidia issue affects all Macs that use integrated graphics. Even the MacBook Pro is not immune because the 13 inch MacBook Pro has integrated graphics only. Without a competing integrated graphics solution from Nvidia, what's Apple going to do? Start spinning the "wimpy" Intel IGP as superior in performance to what Nvidia can provide, and bring back that "incredible value proposition" marketing BS that they used when referring to Intel integrated graphics in the first Intel Mac Mini?
Some current versions have integrated graphics only, there is no rule stating that they have to have remain that way in the future. It will be interesting to see how Apple handles this.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market.
No it wouldn't, that's what's so hilarious and frustrating about Apple's horrible stance on Blu-Ray. I mean, does anyone believe that iTunes' crappy "HD" seriously competes with Blu-Ray's quality? The two products are aimed at completely different customers! iTunes-movies are all about convenience, not about quality, and Blu-Ray is simply about offering the best quality with no compromises. The two formats do not compete, they complement each other. They will only start competing once Apple offers true 1080p in their iTunes store. (and once the iTunes store offers video content outside the US. The world does not consist of the United States).
It would be really low to hold off product releases until after the iPad.
Shouldn't we have word within a few days now if Apple is planning any sort of March event?
I just wish they'd hurry the heck up and get the new i5/i7 Arrandale MBP's out soon... selling the current models with Core 2 Duo at those prices is criminal. C'mon Apple, put the "Pro" back in MacBook Pro!
I know 3 people waiting and waiting- one may buy a Sony instead this weekend.
I know 3 people waiting and waiting- one may buy a Sony instead this weekend.
HP's Elitebook 8540w has been tempting me for some time now... Come on, Apple!
No it wouldn't, that's what's so hilarious and frustrating about Apple's horrible stance on Blu-Ray. I mean, does anyone believe that iTunes' crappy "HD" seriously competes with Blu-Ray's quality? The two products are aimed at completely different customers! iTunes-movies are all about convenience, not about quality, and Blu-Ray is simply about offering the best quality with no compromises. The two formats do not compete, they complement each other. They will only start competing once Apple offers true 1080p in their iTunes store. (and once the iTunes store offers video content outside the US. The world does not consist of the United States).
Please Don't get me started on this. I've stated this over and over for 2 years now since the HD format war ended.
Let's see - how long did it take Apple to get SD flash drives?
...This differs from the company's existing MacBook Pro lineup, which requires users to manually toggle between an integrated Nvidia GeForce 9400M graphics core and the more powerful 9600M GT discrete processor by first making a selection in their Mac's Energy Saver system preference pane, then logging out and back in for the change to take effect (as shown below)...
This statement is not correct, because even though my new 13" is part of the MacBook Pro lineup, it does not have the 9600 GPU.
I don't think we'll ever see blu-ray due to General Mao's push towards everything iTunes. I think it would cannibalize that market. I do agree that it would be nice to have blu-ray on my Santa Rosa MBP. Now would I be able to take out the SuperDrive and swap it for a SuperBlu? Who knows, but I doubt it. That would suck.
i agree. but it is frustrating to have Blu-Ray get stonewalled by corporate agenda instead of putting the customers first.
its beyond ridiculous that Blu-Ray has Digital Copies of movies for itunes, but itunes is showing no love back to BD. Apple just doesn't want BD.
And don't get me started on General Mao... he can license almost anything he wants. music/movies/books etc.... but its only when he has a corporate agenda do they stonewall Blu-Ray.
sad to say, if apple made a MBP with a BD Superdrive... i'd buy it in an instant. but Apple just won't let me buy that.
alot of us need BD for storage also, ie backing up photography and video to BD discs. getting them off hard drives.