On what basis? It is far higher than industry average.
Specifically, which industry? If we take into account the abundant software Apple produces to help sell its hardware then compared to other SW companies it's not so high. If you look at specific HW trying to compete with Apple on the higher-end, not on the budget PCs the others have to sell, Apple's gross profit may be lower since the others have to make up loses at the lower end and if you are already looking at a high-end non-Mac PC you're likely not going for a Mac as it is. Then there is quarterly projections and economics of scale which has increased Apple's gross and net profits simply by having aggressive growth well above the industry, and Apple and analyst's expectations.
He found a report, was too lazy to do any comparative studies with similar companies or any investigation of his own on child labor practices. He sat at home with a beer and made things easy on himself by banging out a story in short order. He's a lazy sod who should be fired for printing crap... but hey... it's the Telegraph for heaven's sake, it's about par with the News of the World...
Editorial License
Apple releases Supplier Responsibility Report (SRP)*
A Malcolm Moore in Shanghai writes an article† for the Technology Section of the London Newspaper, the Telegraph, primarily summing up the Monitoring Compliance section of Apple's SRP starting on page 13* and 16.
The Editor of the Telegraph receives Moore's article and indulges in what is known as 'Yellow Journalism"
Quote:
Yellow Journalism, also known as the "Yellow Presss", is a type of journalism that downplays legitimate news in favor of eye-catching headlines that sell more newspapers. Sometimes it deceives the audience it is intended for. It may feature exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, sensationalism, or unprofessional practices by news media organizations or journalists.†
by creating a 'sensational' headline, i.e, "Apple admits using child labour", which is totally out of context, but a common practice used to grab their readers. **
The editor of the AppleInsider picks up the Telegraph article and compounds the issue by indulging in his own form of, 'Yellow Journalism' by sensationalizing an equally bogus headline in reference to the Telegraph copy, i.e, "Apple taken to task for reporting partners' child labor violations" which it too is taken out of context.***
In both cases, both editors are equally responsible for misleading their readers, and they wonder why we distrust them so much.†††
On what basis? It is far higher than industry average.
I am not against market capitalism, but I don't worship it either. Market capitalism, by itself, leads to Dickensian labor conditions, social stress, unions, and people who advocate communism.
I think capitalists (and the rest of us) are better off if they self-limit by using social responsibility metrics. As consumers, we have every right to demand it.
Otherwise, the limits will come anyway, but in a more disruptive fashion resulting in the destruction of far more wealth.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Spades of evidence show that, although the causality is not easy to disentangle, it more likely that companies that do 'well' tend to do 'good,' rather than the reverse. More profits leads to more investment, more growth, more employment, better conditions for employees and suppliers, more corporate giving, more taxes for government, etc., i.e., better corporate citizenship overall. (By 'doing well,' I am talking about companies that create value for the long run, i.e., not just quarter-to-quarter managed earnings growth.)
The 'average profit margin' in the computer industry is, as you well know, pathetically low, close to zero. I would dread the day that Apple reverts to the industry mean, since I believe (and evidence shows) that a company such as Apple with its higher margins is far more likely to get us to the world that you want than the 'average' computer maker.
It's not just the right thing to do, but it's a competitive advantage as well. Given a choice between products would you choose the product from the company that is socially responsible, or the one that says and does nothing about social responsibility?
Many large organizations will choose the former, because it also makes it look socially responsible. If we all did this the world would be a better place.
It is good that they are cracking down. It is not good that they use companies that treat their employees like slave labor.
It would be great if they used American factories. Maybe some of the $40,000,000,000 could be used for bringing more manufacturing in-house? ISTM that there may be additional benefits to doing so beyond being able to avoid using slave labor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
SHAME ON APPLE
MOVE THE JOBS TO THE USA
Sure. And go out of business in 6 months.
Unfortunately, we, as consumers, have allowed the walmartization of America. We'll buy anything if it's cheap and don't give a damn about quality, performance, service, or anything but price. Under that scenario, production goes wherever it's cheapest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez
Yes, Apple could be worse, but it could also be better.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
To hear all the whiners, it's OK to use slave-lord suppliers as long as you don't look into their working conditions. If you look into the working conditions and put a stop to illegal and immoral behavior, you're evil.
You live in NJ and ask this question? Have you driven down the NJ Turnpike, and looked on either side?!
You beat me to it. Rather ironic, no? Although as you head West, there are certainly prettier places than the industrial parks near Newark.
And when did the Newark Airport become Newark "Liberty" International Airport?
The only thing that ever got "liberated" in the Newark Airport was my gold watch in the parking lot when I was heading for my rental car one dark and dreary evening.
Unfortunately, we, as consumers, have allowed the walmartization of America. We'll buy anything if it's cheap and don't give a damn about quality, performance, service, or anything but price. Under that scenario, production goes wherever it's cheapest.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
To hear all the whiners, it's OK to use slave-lord suppliers as long as you don't look into their working conditions. If you look into the working conditions and put a stop to illegal and immoral behavior, you're evil.
Go figure.
look dude there are no clear answers >>no matter what road you take there are headaches
and agree with what you are saying
i am only saying that american and european workers enjoy work place laws that protect them
these laws add to the cost of any product produced
so the asians cut the price by shabby treatment of their workers
on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AMERICAN CAN COMPETE WITH ANYONE /
APPLE EATS AT OUR TABLE
APPLE SHOULD OPEN SOME FACTORIES HERE
apple being a better citizen than anyone else does not excuse its bad actions here .
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Actually, you are, precisely when you make that binary formulation. Belief is a religious notion.
I no more "believe" in free market capitalism than I believe in hammers or gravity. A hammer is a tool, as is capital. The market is a natural phenomenon, like gravity.
We can use these things, but they are not the solution to all problems. No successful toolbox has only hammers, and no successful country lacks market and labor regulation, for example.
By the way, there is nothing free about labor in a dictatorship like China, where there is little legal recourse for labor or communities that may be harmed by toxic waste, for example. Not to mention industrial espionage. Ask Google.
If free market capitalism depends on non-free human resources, then what exactly is free about it? It's really easy to say the words "free market", but Apple's value chain has some definitely non-free links in it.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
Google is your friend. All the major companies do audits.
They are all members of EICC , and follow similar audit practices, with similar codes of conduct.
Apple is leading nothing here. This is why the article is a whitewash.
It does give you something to talk about at work at lunch times though if your company provides papers for your reading pleasure. You take bets on today's `Daily Fail' headlines or the `Daily [s]Express'. You even get amusing headline generator sites. `HAS THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT GIVEN HOUSE PRICES SWINE FLU?'
It's fun to tear them apart; but at the same time you can't help but worry that there are a significant number of people in the world that take `The Sun' as gospel truth. There again there are a significant number of people that take AI as gospel truth too... ^_^;
Precisely, all of it is English Humour! Not a bit of reality in them. And they claim google in their looming future. It is not low advertising prices, it is bad journalism, that is dooming the industry!
Actually, you are, precisely when you make that binary formulation. Belief is a religious notion.
I no more "believe" in free market capitalism than I believe in hammers or gravity. A hammer is a tool, as is capital. The market is a natural phenomenon, like gravity.
We can use these things, but they are not the solution to all problems. No successful toolbox has only hammers, and no successful country lacks market and labor regulation, for example.
By the way, there is nothing free about labor in a dictatorship like China, where there is little legal recourse for labor or communities that may be harmed by toxic waste, for example. Not to mention industrial espionage. Ask Google.
If free market capitalism depends on non-free human resources, then what exactly is free about it? It's really easy to say the words "free market", but Apple's value chain has some definitely non-free links in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez
Google is your friend. All the major companies do audits.
They are all members of EICC , and follow similar audit practices, with similar codes of conduct.
Apple is leading nothing here. This is why the article is a whitewash.
Again, you overstate and dissemble. No one said anything about unregulated free market capitalism. That is a silly premise (just as your implied view that a belief in virtues of free market capitalism is equivalent to "worship."). Also, you set up a totally false (and contradictory) dichotomy when, on the one hand, you want the jobs back in the US (i.e., you want to deprive Chinese workers of theirs) and yet on the other hand you bemoan that workers in China are 'non-free' (i.e., you not only want them to have jobs, but jobs with 'free' jobs). Which one are you for?
Are working conditions in China worse than in the US? You bet. However, are working conditions in China -- esp. in places like Apple factories -- better than, say, even five years ago? You bet. And that is a function of China growing more prosperous and companies like Apple putting pressure (both of which we all should, presumably, root for.)
As I said, it is quite unclear what you stand for.
As your point about Apple "leading nothing here," you're asserting then that Apple must be lying when it says that a majority of its suppliers report that is the first such audit they've experienced from a customer company.
What is your basis for saying Apple is lying? And, if they are not, how can you say this is not leading the industry pack?
Worse: Apple would still be the only one accused of these problems by the press, while all the other companies would fly under the radar.
apple is above the rest
apple should make a new rule no one under the age of 23 yrs old is allowed to work in its factories .apple should invite the world to review all its factories and make a binding report on its finding's on what to change if anything ??
apple went 30 percent green
fantastic
lets go farther now
i repeat myself now by saying apple should open factories where its bread gets buttered
In England, the Telegraph is known as the "house paper" of the Conservative party. If you follow it for very long, you start seeing the slant in much of what they write. They are more concerned with pushing a political point of view than in reporting news accurately. It is similar to Fox News in the US.
Since Apple in this case is doing something usually associated with liberals, i.e. protecting the underdogs, the Telegraph will tend to slant their reporting to make Apple look bad. If Apple instead had taken a position that it's not the job of business to protect people, it is the job of business to make profits, then the Telegraph would have slanted their language to laud Apple.
Comments
I meant to say that is is very high.
On what basis? It is far higher than industry average.
Specifically, which industry? If we take into account the abundant software Apple produces to help sell its hardware then compared to other SW companies it's not so high. If you look at specific HW trying to compete with Apple on the higher-end, not on the budget PCs the others have to sell, Apple's gross profit may be lower since the others have to make up loses at the lower end and if you are already looking at a high-end non-Mac PC you're likely not going for a Mac as it is. Then there is quarterly projections and economics of scale which has increased Apple's gross and net profits simply by having aggressive growth well above the industry, and Apple and analyst's expectations.
He found a report, was too lazy to do any comparative studies with similar companies or any investigation of his own on child labor practices. He sat at home with a beer and made things easy on himself by banging out a story in short order. He's a lazy sod who should be fired for printing crap... but hey... it's the Telegraph for heaven's sake, it's about par with the News of the World...
†http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ld-labour.html
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
***http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...iolations.html
††† http://people-press.org/report/543/
I meant to say that is is very high.
On what basis? It is far higher than industry average.
I am not against market capitalism, but I don't worship it either. Market capitalism, by itself, leads to Dickensian labor conditions, social stress, unions, and people who advocate communism.
I think capitalists (and the rest of us) are better off if they self-limit by using social responsibility metrics. As consumers, we have every right to demand it.
Otherwise, the limits will come anyway, but in a more disruptive fashion resulting in the destruction of far more wealth.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Spades of evidence show that, although the causality is not easy to disentangle, it more likely that companies that do 'well' tend to do 'good,' rather than the reverse. More profits leads to more investment, more growth, more employment, better conditions for employees and suppliers, more corporate giving, more taxes for government, etc., i.e., better corporate citizenship overall. (By 'doing well,' I am talking about companies that create value for the long run, i.e., not just quarter-to-quarter managed earnings growth.)
The 'average profit margin' in the computer industry is, as you well know, pathetically low, close to zero. I would dread the day that Apple reverts to the industry mean, since I believe (and evidence shows) that a company such as Apple with its higher margins is far more likely to get us to the world that you want than the 'average' computer maker.
Many large organizations will choose the former, because it also makes it look socially responsible. If we all did this the world would be a better place.
It is good that they are cracking down. It is not good that they use companies that treat their employees like slave labor.
It would be great if they used American factories. Maybe some of the $40,000,000,000 could be used for bringing more manufacturing in-house? ISTM that there may be additional benefits to doing so beyond being able to avoid using slave labor.
SHAME ON APPLE
MOVE THE JOBS TO THE USA
Sure. And go out of business in 6 months.
Unfortunately, we, as consumers, have allowed the walmartization of America. We'll buy anything if it's cheap and don't give a damn about quality, performance, service, or anything but price. Under that scenario, production goes wherever it's cheapest.
Yes, Apple could be worse, but it could also be better.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
To hear all the whiners, it's OK to use slave-lord suppliers as long as you don't look into their working conditions. If you look into the working conditions and put a stop to illegal and immoral behavior, you're evil.
Go figure.
Bully for Apple.
I'm personally waiting for some lib-trash to pull out one of the 'Americans are fools' type of comments that are oh so plentiful here.
You live in NJ and ask this question? Have you driven down the NJ Turnpike, and looked on either side?!
You beat me to it. Rather ironic, no? Although as you head West, there are certainly prettier places than the industrial parks near Newark.
And when did the Newark Airport become Newark "Liberty" International Airport?
The only thing that ever got "liberated" in the Newark Airport was my gold watch in the parking lot when I was heading for my rental car one dark and dreary evening.
Sure. And go out of business in 6 months.
Unfortunately, we, as consumers, have allowed the walmartization of America. We'll buy anything if it's cheap and don't give a damn about quality, performance, service, or anything but price. Under that scenario, production goes wherever it's cheapest.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
To hear all the whiners, it's OK to use slave-lord suppliers as long as you don't look into their working conditions. If you look into the working conditions and put a stop to illegal and immoral behavior, you're evil.
Go figure.
look dude there are no clear answers >>no matter what road you take there are headaches
and agree with what you are saying
i am only saying that american and european workers enjoy work place laws that protect them
these laws add to the cost of any product produced
so the asians cut the price by shabby treatment of their workers
on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AMERICAN CAN COMPETE WITH ANYONE /
APPLE EATS AT OUR TABLE
APPLE SHOULD OPEN SOME FACTORIES HERE
apple being a better citizen than anyone else does not excuse its bad actions here .
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Actually, you are, precisely when you make that binary formulation. Belief is a religious notion.
I no more "believe" in free market capitalism than I believe in hammers or gravity. A hammer is a tool, as is capital. The market is a natural phenomenon, like gravity.
We can use these things, but they are not the solution to all problems. No successful toolbox has only hammers, and no successful country lacks market and labor regulation, for example.
By the way, there is nothing free about labor in a dictatorship like China, where there is little legal recourse for labor or communities that may be harmed by toxic waste, for example. Not to mention industrial espionage. Ask Google.
If free market capitalism depends on non-free human resources, then what exactly is free about it? It's really easy to say the words "free market", but Apple's value chain has some definitely non-free links in it.
They're already better than anyone else in the industry. Where did Dell or HP or Sony or any of the others audit their suppliers to determine if they were using appropriate working conditions.
Google is your friend. All the major companies do audits.
They are all members of EICC , and follow similar audit practices, with similar codes of conduct.
Apple is leading nothing here. This is why the article is a whitewash.
It does give you something to talk about at work at lunch times though if your company provides papers for your reading pleasure. You take bets on today's `Daily Fail' headlines or the `Daily [s]Express'. You even get amusing headline generator sites. `HAS THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT GIVEN HOUSE PRICES SWINE FLU?'
It's fun to tear them apart; but at the same time you can't help but worry that there are a significant number of people in the world that take `The Sun' as gospel truth. There again there are a significant number of people that take AI as gospel truth too... ^_^;
Precisely, all of it is English Humour! Not a bit of reality in them. And they claim google in their looming future. It is not low advertising prices, it is bad journalism, that is dooming the industry!
Google is your friend. All the major companies do audits.
They are all members of EICC , and follow similar audit practices, with similar codes of conduct.
Apple is leading nothing here. This is why the article is a whitewash.
This is the perfect example of "straw man".
Nothing in your statements above address "WHY" (in your opinion) the article is a "whitewash".
Actually, you are, precisely when you make that binary formulation. Belief is a religious notion.
I no more "believe" in free market capitalism than I believe in hammers or gravity. A hammer is a tool, as is capital. The market is a natural phenomenon, like gravity.
We can use these things, but they are not the solution to all problems. No successful toolbox has only hammers, and no successful country lacks market and labor regulation, for example.
By the way, there is nothing free about labor in a dictatorship like China, where there is little legal recourse for labor or communities that may be harmed by toxic waste, for example. Not to mention industrial espionage. Ask Google.
If free market capitalism depends on non-free human resources, then what exactly is free about it? It's really easy to say the words "free market", but Apple's value chain has some definitely non-free links in it.
Google is your friend. All the major companies do audits.
They are all members of EICC , and follow similar audit practices, with similar codes of conduct.
Apple is leading nothing here. This is why the article is a whitewash.
Again, you overstate and dissemble. No one said anything about unregulated free market capitalism. That is a silly premise (just as your implied view that a belief in virtues of free market capitalism is equivalent to "worship."). Also, you set up a totally false (and contradictory) dichotomy when, on the one hand, you want the jobs back in the US (i.e., you want to deprive Chinese workers of theirs) and yet on the other hand you bemoan that workers in China are 'non-free' (i.e., you not only want them to have jobs, but jobs with 'free' jobs). Which one are you for?
Are working conditions in China worse than in the US? You bet. However, are working conditions in China -- esp. in places like Apple factories -- better than, say, even five years ago? You bet. And that is a function of China growing more prosperous and companies like Apple putting pressure (both of which we all should, presumably, root for.)
As I said, it is quite unclear what you stand for.
As your point about Apple "leading nothing here," you're asserting then that Apple must be lying when it says that a majority of its suppliers report that is the first such audit they've experienced from a customer company.
What is your basis for saying Apple is lying? And, if they are not, how can you say this is not leading the industry pack?
They were named in the Telegraph article as the factory where 62 workers were poisoned by hexane was making phone components for both Apple and Nokia.
First Apple is not alone in these types of inspections. Nokia, for example, has done them for years and has been comparably effective.
if Apple didn't say anything at all there'd be no story, they'd just fly under the radar like everyone else.
Worse: Apple would still be the only one accused of these problems by the press, while all the other companies would fly under the radar.
Worse: Apple would still be the only one accused of these problems by the press, while all the other companies would fly under the radar.
apple is above the rest
apple should make a new rule no one under the age of 23 yrs old is allowed to work in its factories .apple should invite the world to review all its factories and make a binding report on its finding's on what to change if anything ??
apple went 30 percent green
fantastic
lets go farther now
i repeat myself now by saying apple should open factories where its bread gets buttered
besides all that
APPLE ROCKS
This is the perfect example of "straw man".
Nothing in your statements above address "WHY" (in your opinion) the article is a "whitewash".
i still can't quite fathom
STRAW MAN
??
Since Apple in this case is doing something usually associated with liberals, i.e. protecting the underdogs, the Telegraph will tend to slant their reporting to make Apple look bad. If Apple instead had taken a position that it's not the job of business to protect people, it is the job of business to make profits, then the Telegraph would have slanted their language to laud Apple.
i still can't quite fathom
STRAW MAN
??
Maybe if you took 10 seconds and looked it up, it might have saved you the post.