[quote]There's no need to get so emotional.<hr></blockquote>
I think there's a very serious need to be emotional about this. We have every right, nay, every duty to be emotional about this and all other cases like this. Just becuase there will likely be a lot more killings like this doesn't mean we get to shrug them off as a statistic. That's Stalin's perspective, not a healthy or humane one.
Anyway, once Pearl was kidnapped the most you can do is sniff out where he is and rescue him before they kill him. No point in even talking except to but time. It's fair to say they probably didn't expect their demands to be met and they just wanted to kill him, make him an example. But the real answer to all this is in preventing this stuff from happening in the first place. If that means placing a real "fear of God" into them or making their lives a little more than inconvenient, sobeit.
[quote]I think there's a very serious need to be emotional about this. We have every right, nay, every duty to be emotional about this and all other cases like this. Just becuase there will likely be a lot more killings like this doesn't mean we get to shrug them off as a statistic. That's Stalin's perspective, not a healthy or humane one.<hr></blockquote>
You've taken that quote out of context. I was talking to Noah about something else. Please refrain from doing that again.
I think exemplary measures should be taken against those terrorists when they're found. I hope Muscharraf manages to capture them, and give them what they deserve. I'm confident he will do his best.
looking back at my posts perhaps indeed I did word it incorrectly, making allusions instead of clearly stating my opinions. I apologize for that, english is not my first language.
Noah, I don't feel like arguing with you about this, dividing ouselves on petty issues will only help the terrorists. Yet there are a few things that need to be clear:
[quote] It was just one man, and the people trying to save him obviously were not trying hard enough anyhow. <hr></blockquote>
Did I say this? I didn't say the people on the case weren't trying hard enough, I wondered if perhaps there couldn't be anything else that could have been done.
I even said "It's always difficult to deal with such issues" and "I'm convinced there are things we can do to both prevent such acts of horror and fight them. I'm also convinced much went on behind the curtain to try and save his life."
So stop the paranoia.
[quote]you shrug off the death (however unintentionally) as the result of a government doing the 'hip' thing and making it out to be anyone elses problem but the terrorists. then you have the audacity to bring the guys wife into it to back up your point.<hr></blockquote>
I did not shrug of his death as the result of anything, I didn't accuse anyone, I only asked the disturbing questions no one is willing to ask, ie was there nothing else we could have done? What can we learn from this horrible ending?
You're saying I brought his wife in to prove a point, when I didn't, I merely said that all she wanted was having him back alive, she didn't care about anything else. Audacity... I'm not the enemy here.
[quote]And if you know that there is not point in negotiating except to buy time, why would you suggest that as the answer? Hear that beeping noise? Someone is backing up bigtime.<hr></blockquote>
Oh please. Stop the show. I said "I mean sure, there's little we can do to prevent it, but surely negotiations can lead to less deaths?" Which I worded very poorly, I admit, I was using negotiation as a broad word, encompassing the fact that making the terrorists understand that killing innocent people won't get them anything except strong retaliation, perhaps they'd think twice before acting.
[quote]We should make every effort to get our people back to let those SOB's know that our people mean enough to us that if they do this sort of thing they will be hunted like animals for the rest of their lives. And you saying you understand then saying that makes me even more disgusted.<hr></blockquote>
I guess you have to direct your anger at someone, might as well be some one you don't know anything about on an online BB... So I'm not, according to you, able to understand the feelings, because surely I don't feel disgusted. All I want is justice to be made and especially such acts to be prevented in the future. All I'm suggesting is that perhaps there is something we didn't think of that could have saved his or somebody else's life. Upon reading this, you blow off. Fine.
[quote]Well you said it very poorly. <hr></blockquote>
I admit to that, though I don't think what I said needed the emotional response you gave it.
[quote]
And you gained nothing with this post either. Just tried to make me look like the overreacting one, while you were merely taken out of context. <hr></blockquote>
Well you definitely are over-reacting, because I'm on your side, and neither am I defending the terrorists nor am I accusing anyone of what happened. Furthermore, suggesting a bombing of Pakistan is not to rule out, you definitelyÂ*are over-reacting.
I'm having trouble understanding what you've achieved in turning this thread into a bash-fest whereas initially it was just somewhere people, who all felt the same, could try and put in words the desperate feelings that weighed on their hearts, somewhere where we could discuss our failure to understand how a human being could do that to another in the first place, and then how come we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, no matter how hard we tried. We're here to support each other in such moments of interrogation, not throw around accusations and fight amongst ourselves.
<strong>Well? ... ? I hope the US has some balls to "take care of" the ones who did this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nobody, but nobody, deserves a gruesome, horrible fate as this. I hope those responsible pay with their lives and I hope it's taken care of in Pakistan by Pakistanis. Mr. Pearl was writing a story, not representing USG. An article I've read said he'd been warned off meeting with these "people" by the SD Regional Security Officer there. So he knew he was going to meet with some bad company.
<strong>looking back at my posts perhaps indeed I did word it incorrectly, making allusions instead of clearly stating my opinions. I apologize for that, english is not my first language.
Noah, I don't feel like arguing with you about this, dividing ouselves on petty issues will only help the terrorists. Yet there are a few things that need to be clear:</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am sorry if you feel that I was attacking you directly. I was attacking the stand that you were making (or appeared to be making) that we had not tried hard enough, and that we should do more negotiating to resolve this. Then was futher upset when your next post seemed to frame me as the reactionary and as part of the problem.
Oh and if you are trying to appear level headed, how is us having an argument on a message board helping terrorists? I just don't see it? Sorry.
[quote]Well you definitely are over-reacting, because I'm on your side, and neither am I defending the terrorists nor am I accusing anyone of what happened. Furthermore, suggesting a bombing of Pakistan is not to rule out, you definitelyÂ*are over-reacting.<hr></blockquote>
See above post. And to suggest that bombing in Pakistan is out of the question takes options off of the table. I never suggested that they should carpet bomb the country like you are implying here. Strategic bombing could be quite effective in situations where manpower on the ground may not be enough. Not an overreaction in the least.
[quote]<strong>I'm having trouble understanding what you've achieved in turning this thread into a bash-fest whereas initially it was just somewhere people, who all felt the same, could try and put in words the desperate feelings that weighed on their hearts, somewhere where we could discuss our failure to understand how a human being could do that to another in the first place, and then how come we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, no matter how hard we tried. We're here to support each other in such moments of interrogation, not throw around accusations and fight amongst ourselves.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now to play the victim card. Congratulations. We all feel bad for you that you were misunderstood. See my first response in this post and then feel better that I don't hate you or anyone as you seem to think. I was attack a line of thought that to mee seemed unacceptable considering the circumstances.
BTW, I have never noticed you having trouble expressing yourself in English before, and your mastery of the laguage appears very good, so I assumed you knew exactly what you were writing. Take that as a complement of your English skills. That is all it is.
As some of you may know, The Blue Meanie is also a journalist, which makes Daniel Pearl a professional colleague (albeit a distant one). Rest in peace, bro...
Comments
I think there's a very serious need to be emotional about this. We have every right, nay, every duty to be emotional about this and all other cases like this. Just becuase there will likely be a lot more killings like this doesn't mean we get to shrug them off as a statistic. That's Stalin's perspective, not a healthy or humane one.
Anyway, once Pearl was kidnapped the most you can do is sniff out where he is and rescue him before they kill him. No point in even talking except to but time. It's fair to say they probably didn't expect their demands to be met and they just wanted to kill him, make him an example. But the real answer to all this is in preventing this stuff from happening in the first place. If that means placing a real "fear of God" into them or making their lives a little more than inconvenient, sobeit.
You've taken that quote out of context. I was talking to Noah about something else. Please refrain from doing that again.
I think exemplary measures should be taken against those terrorists when they're found. I hope Muscharraf manages to capture them, and give them what they deserve. I'm confident he will do his best.
Not negotiating with hostages is such an old concept and policy I don't know how the word "hip" could be used at all.
(Also, he wasn't a traditional hostage for ransom, he was captured as a "spy" for Israel.)
You've taken that quote out of context. I was talking to Noah about something else.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
I know, but I wanted to say it.
Noah, I don't feel like arguing with you about this, dividing ouselves on petty issues will only help the terrorists. Yet there are a few things that need to be clear:
[quote] It was just one man, and the people trying to save him obviously were not trying hard enough anyhow. <hr></blockquote>
Did I say this? I didn't say the people on the case weren't trying hard enough, I wondered if perhaps there couldn't be anything else that could have been done.
I even said "It's always difficult to deal with such issues" and "I'm convinced there are things we can do to both prevent such acts of horror and fight them. I'm also convinced much went on behind the curtain to try and save his life."
So stop the paranoia.
[quote]you shrug off the death (however unintentionally) as the result of a government doing the 'hip' thing and making it out to be anyone elses problem but the terrorists. then you have the audacity to bring the guys wife into it to back up your point.<hr></blockquote>
I did not shrug of his death as the result of anything, I didn't accuse anyone, I only asked the disturbing questions no one is willing to ask, ie was there nothing else we could have done? What can we learn from this horrible ending?
You're saying I brought his wife in to prove a point, when I didn't, I merely said that all she wanted was having him back alive, she didn't care about anything else. Audacity... I'm not the enemy here.
[quote]And if you know that there is not point in negotiating except to buy time, why would you suggest that as the answer? Hear that beeping noise? Someone is backing up bigtime.<hr></blockquote>
Oh please. Stop the show. I said "I mean sure, there's little we can do to prevent it, but surely negotiations can lead to less deaths?" Which I worded very poorly, I admit, I was using negotiation as a broad word, encompassing the fact that making the terrorists understand that killing innocent people won't get them anything except strong retaliation, perhaps they'd think twice before acting.
[quote]We should make every effort to get our people back to let those SOB's know that our people mean enough to us that if they do this sort of thing they will be hunted like animals for the rest of their lives. And you saying you understand then saying that makes me even more disgusted.<hr></blockquote>
I guess you have to direct your anger at someone, might as well be some one you don't know anything about on an online BB... So I'm not, according to you, able to understand the feelings, because surely I don't feel disgusted. All I want is justice to be made and especially such acts to be prevented in the future. All I'm suggesting is that perhaps there is something we didn't think of that could have saved his or somebody else's life. Upon reading this, you blow off. Fine.
[quote]Well you said it very poorly. <hr></blockquote>
I admit to that, though I don't think what I said needed the emotional response you gave it.
[quote]
And you gained nothing with this post either. Just tried to make me look like the overreacting one, while you were merely taken out of context. <hr></blockquote>
Well you definitely are over-reacting, because I'm on your side, and neither am I defending the terrorists nor am I accusing anyone of what happened. Furthermore, suggesting a bombing of Pakistan is not to rule out, you definitelyÂ*are over-reacting.
I'm having trouble understanding what you've achieved in turning this thread into a bash-fest whereas initially it was just somewhere people, who all felt the same, could try and put in words the desperate feelings that weighed on their hearts, somewhere where we could discuss our failure to understand how a human being could do that to another in the first place, and then how come we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, no matter how hard we tried. We're here to support each other in such moments of interrogation, not throw around accusations and fight amongst ourselves.
[ 02-25-2002: Message edited by: SYN ]</p>
<strong>Well? ... ? I hope the US has some balls to "take care of" the ones who did this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nobody, but nobody, deserves a gruesome, horrible fate as this. I hope those responsible pay with their lives and I hope it's taken care of in Pakistan by Pakistanis. Mr. Pearl was writing a story, not representing USG. An article I've read said he'd been warned off meeting with these "people" by the SD Regional Security Officer there. So he knew he was going to meet with some bad company.
<strong>looking back at my posts perhaps indeed I did word it incorrectly, making allusions instead of clearly stating my opinions. I apologize for that, english is not my first language.
Noah, I don't feel like arguing with you about this, dividing ouselves on petty issues will only help the terrorists. Yet there are a few things that need to be clear:</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am sorry if you feel that I was attacking you directly. I was attacking the stand that you were making (or appeared to be making) that we had not tried hard enough, and that we should do more negotiating to resolve this. Then was futher upset when your next post seemed to frame me as the reactionary and as part of the problem.
Oh and if you are trying to appear level headed, how is us having an argument on a message board helping terrorists? I just don't see it? Sorry.
[quote]Well you definitely are over-reacting, because I'm on your side, and neither am I defending the terrorists nor am I accusing anyone of what happened. Furthermore, suggesting a bombing of Pakistan is not to rule out, you definitelyÂ*are over-reacting.<hr></blockquote>
See above post. And to suggest that bombing in Pakistan is out of the question takes options off of the table. I never suggested that they should carpet bomb the country like you are implying here. Strategic bombing could be quite effective in situations where manpower on the ground may not be enough. Not an overreaction in the least.
[quote]<strong>I'm having trouble understanding what you've achieved in turning this thread into a bash-fest whereas initially it was just somewhere people, who all felt the same, could try and put in words the desperate feelings that weighed on their hearts, somewhere where we could discuss our failure to understand how a human being could do that to another in the first place, and then how come we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, no matter how hard we tried. We're here to support each other in such moments of interrogation, not throw around accusations and fight amongst ourselves.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now to play the victim card. Congratulations. We all feel bad for you that you were misunderstood. See my first response in this post and then feel better that I don't hate you or anyone as you seem to think. I was attack a line of thought that to mee seemed unacceptable considering the circumstances.
BTW, I have never noticed you having trouble expressing yourself in English before, and your mastery of the laguage appears very good, so I assumed you knew exactly what you were writing. Take that as a complement of your English skills. That is all it is.
<strong>Ah if only we could nuke the entire Middle East. Make the world a lot safer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
PS - That
[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>