I think this is ultimately a good thing. Why does someone need a proprietary iPhone app to look up the current weather, or any other single-dimensional bit of data? If it can be done through a web browser with no extra frills, that's where it belongs. If there's a compelling reason to add some limited extra functionality, make it a web app and distribute it outside the App Store. If it really needs the full Cocoa development suite or low-level hardware access, make it a true iPhone app.
By that measure, maybe Apple should axe their "Weather" app? It's the equivalent of going to accuweather.com and entering your zip code.
I think the benefit of a simple app like that is the typical web page is a lot larger than the actual data set desired. In some cases, I imagine that the packet holding the core data could be just 1k, the web page might be 100k, as well as the device-side interpretation. Downloading the data vs. the entire web app can amount to a significant difference in speed, because a lot of the formatting / layout information is built into the local app.
If these apps go through an approval process and are approved while later on to have Apple decide to remove it for it's own personal reasons, I feel is wrong. It should have never been approved in the beginning. It's the same thing as saying here I'll give you this gift and then three months later I decide I want the gift back. Wouldn't that piss you off?
What I'm getting at is that these developers are paying a fee to develop and they spend time developing these apps and then go thru the whole process to get them approved with great excitement. But once they are, too have several months or years down the road go by when Apple decides 'ehh, we don't want you on here anymore, bye! It's just not right.
I understand for all the reasons, and yes, I hate crapware just as much as anyone else does but they never should have approved it in the beginning. It's like Apple hit it's App milemark for bragging purposes and now decides to go thru the whole Apps to delete under their socialistic reasoning.
What if, one day Apple decided they no longer want games in our App store (far fetched), so let's remove all the games. The point is, Apple says one thing and changes their mind the next. I understand this is their own eco-system that they can do with as they please but it's different when you says it's ok one minute and take it back the next minute.
They should create more/better categories for this crapware. Call it the crap section, I don't care.
I guess, I would hate to develop an App and get it approved and then several months later Apple decides it's not good enough for such and such reason. Then why did you approve it the beginning?
Again, I agree there's a lot of crap in there and I hate it too but when big brother starts telling you this and that with no recourse to defend yourself, that's just wrong. You can only hope that Apple doesn't get a crazy hair up their butt and come looking for your App one day.
Just note: this only my opinion and does not have to be yours so don't start a words war. I'm an Apple fan too; I just don't always agree with them.
"You gonna get used to wearin' them chains afer a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listenin' to them clinking. 'Cause they gonna remind you of what I been saying. For your own good.
Luke: Wish you'd stop bein' so good to me, cap'n. "
I think we?ll end up eventually with a fair and solid set of guidelines that make the iPhone/iPad experience really good, while allowing developers to rake in the dough for their efforts. The App Store can indeed do without a ton of this kind of shovelware.
But I really don?t think Apple had to make it quite such a long and bumpy road getting there! I understand that the platform took off in ways Apple didn?t foresee, but I still believe they could have gotten their act together on all these issues?and the surrounding approval process?much more quickly. It?s very odd that they didn?t.
Better late than never... but they?ll have to stop scaring developers with big policy changes! Or developers of legitimate, awesome apps will be wondering who?s next. And then some good apps/games won?t get made if the risk is too great.
Wait a sec... isn't AppleInsider's iPhone App just, in essence, a reproducer of web content?
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Wait a sec... isn't AppleInsider's iPhone App just, in essence, a reproducer of web content?
Unless I'm missing something, AI does not have an iPhone app. They simply created an iPhone-friendly website that you simply add the bookmark to your home screen. It's not something that is retrieved necessarily from the App store.
But I really don?t think Apple had to make it quite such a long and bumpy road getting there! I understand that the platform took off in ways Apple didn?t foresee, but I still believe they could have gotten their act together on all these issues?and the surrounding approval process?much more quickly. It?s very odd that they didn?t.
I doubt anyone disputes that the whole process could have been smoother from the beginning. But remember:
1) Apple is hardly perfect. They've had false starts with numerous other products, such as MobileMe, the iPhone activation process, AppleTV, etc.
2) Setting a straightforward, unchanging policy looks obvious in hindsight, but Apple is in new territory with a lot of this. Name one other mobile/software vendor that has released a product of the iPhone's impact, and then describe if their followthrough has been without bumps. When one considers the entire iPhone ecosystem from beginning to end, there are a lot of moving parts, and plenty of areas where Apple could have done a lot worse. (Hell, look at Microsoft's entire mobile efforts to date!)
I think your sentiment is correct - the success of the iPhone and App Store probably took Apple by surprise (this very site documented the steps taken so far, including rapidly ramping up the developer approval process) and in the short term it's been rocky, but a year from now people will give this situation as much attention as they now do with the iPhone's initial lack of cut and paste. The mobile landscape is changing so rapidly that Apple's cleanup of their App Store will become a non-issue for most.
And to those who think that the other mobile software vendors won't have their share of hiccups and regrets, well, don't count on it.
I understand Apple's stance, but with their restrictions that seem to get ever tighter on developers, I can see developers moving toward Droid. Like I said, I understand Apple's intentions, but I'd rather see an open market.
If the ones making the ruckus about this want to leave to Droid, let them. I will gladly keep the door open for them.
"Real" developers know where the market is and they will continue developing for App store. The average joe-consumer will not take notice of what Apple is doing or not doing with the App store by removing crap apps. They will see high-quality, "real" apps and not the copy-kiddie amateurs.
It's actually quite funny to read how much of a pedestal you tech-heads put yourselves on. What's good for you must be what's good for everyone else. The real truth is that a company that bases their decisions on your whacked-out input would never survive in the real world for too long without being demoted to junk-status.
Even with tens-of-millions of iPhone buyers, you'll keep forecasting the doom-and-gloom of Apple's business practices. You've been proven wrong on so many levels.
Android will succeed to but only up to a point. Should Marketplace increase considerably in size, it would not surprise me at all if Google begins to clamp-down on the crapp-quality apps in their store too.
Keep up the good work Apple. You're known in the tech-world as the provider of a high-quality experience. You have more supporters than naysayers!
There are a lot of Mac OS X widgets that are little more than RSS feeds wrapped up in a pretty interface too. But those are okay. Hmm. Anyway. Whatever.
The basic problem is that you can buy apps ONLY at the app store. This was the decision that was stupidly wrong.
Every other decision was made necessary because of this first boneheaded decision. It wasn't thought through that it would put Apple in the role of censor. It wasn't thought through that developers would send technically acceptable, but crappy apps.
Or it was thought through, which would be even worse.
Apple is becoming their own worst enemy. They are making themselves into a punchline.
By that measure, maybe Apple should axe their "Weather" app? It's the equivalent of going to accuweather.com and entering your zip code.
I think the benefit of a simple app like that is the typical web page is a lot larger than the actual data set desired. In some cases, I imagine that the packet holding the core data could be just 1k, the web page might be 100k, as well as the device-side interpretation. Downloading the data vs. the entire web app can amount to a significant difference in speed, because a lot of the formatting / layout information is built into the local app.
I believe that so far nobody has found the weather app on the iPad, running 3.2, so maybe they are up to something.
Yup, but don't forget that this is purging the APP store only. All the web apps can be made into shortcuts that can be placed on your home screen(s) and be accessed the same way as an app (they will launch safari and take you to the web app). This needs to be measured, because I kinda like the engadget app, and it is basically a wrapper for their RSS feeds.
It takes too darn long to review the apps in iTunes and the reviews are terrible and incomplete because of that reason.
On Apple's web site there isn't the layout for apps like there is for widgets and hardly any apps are listed.
Apple has never been even marginally competent at search.
Obviously, they need organization. But like so many of their decisions, if some aspect of something is too complicated to wrap their brains around, they simply excise it. Look at the missing features of their products for more examples.
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Those are major brands. Apple only shits on the little guys.
I understand Apple's stance, but with their restrictions that seem to get ever tighter on developers, I can see developers moving toward Droid. Like I said, I understand Apple's intentions, but I'd rather see an open market.
Good thing you're not in charge. "Open market" is a pipe dream. There have be be restrictions and standards enforced, or it's a dog's breakfast.
These higher quality standards will help the App Store grow even further.
This is a move to protect the new ebook store. Now, instead of being able to download an app with off-line medical advice to assist yourself when you are buried under substandard construction in Haiti, now you will be expected to either download it off the non-existent web, or buy an Apple e-book.
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Its an interesting point. Maybe these guys have been told to pull their apps and simply re-jig their websites for the iphone. The worst one was the BBC iPhone app. It pulled all the headlines in nicely re-formatted for the small screen but as soon as you clicked through to a story they just sent you to the normal three column web-site. Very useless. There are some apps that do more than reformat pages. The UK's The Guardian lets you download sections for off-line reading (handy if you commute via subway). The way you can configure the presentation of the news as well as which sections you re interested in, oh and and resize text size, are all worthwhile features.
Comments
I think this is ultimately a good thing. Why does someone need a proprietary iPhone app to look up the current weather, or any other single-dimensional bit of data? If it can be done through a web browser with no extra frills, that's where it belongs. If there's a compelling reason to add some limited extra functionality, make it a web app and distribute it outside the App Store. If it really needs the full Cocoa development suite or low-level hardware access, make it a true iPhone app.
By that measure, maybe Apple should axe their "Weather" app? It's the equivalent of going to accuweather.com and entering your zip code.
I think the benefit of a simple app like that is the typical web page is a lot larger than the actual data set desired. In some cases, I imagine that the packet holding the core data could be just 1k, the web page might be 100k, as well as the device-side interpretation. Downloading the data vs. the entire web app can amount to a significant difference in speed, because a lot of the formatting / layout information is built into the local app.
If these apps go through an approval process and are approved while later on to have Apple decide to remove it for it's own personal reasons, I feel is wrong. It should have never been approved in the beginning. It's the same thing as saying here I'll give you this gift and then three months later I decide I want the gift back. Wouldn't that piss you off?
What I'm getting at is that these developers are paying a fee to develop and they spend time developing these apps and then go thru the whole process to get them approved with great excitement. But once they are, too have several months or years down the road go by when Apple decides 'ehh, we don't want you on here anymore, bye! It's just not right.
I understand for all the reasons, and yes, I hate crapware just as much as anyone else does but they never should have approved it in the beginning. It's like Apple hit it's App milemark for bragging purposes and now decides to go thru the whole Apps to delete under their socialistic reasoning.
What if, one day Apple decided they no longer want games in our App store (far fetched), so let's remove all the games. The point is, Apple says one thing and changes their mind the next. I understand this is their own eco-system that they can do with as they please but it's different when you says it's ok one minute and take it back the next minute.
They should create more/better categories for this crapware. Call it the crap section, I don't care.
I guess, I would hate to develop an App and get it approved and then several months later Apple decides it's not good enough for such and such reason. Then why did you approve it the beginning?
Again, I agree there's a lot of crap in there and I hate it too but when big brother starts telling you this and that with no recourse to defend yourself, that's just wrong. You can only hope that Apple doesn't get a crazy hair up their butt and come looking for your App one day.
Just note: this only my opinion and does not have to be yours so don't start a words war. I'm an Apple fan too; I just don't always agree with them.
There's a lot of crap in the app store.
Good move.
"You gonna get used to wearin' them chains afer a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listenin' to them clinking. 'Cause they gonna remind you of what I been saying. For your own good.
Luke: Wish you'd stop bein' so good to me, cap'n. "
But I really don?t think Apple had to make it quite such a long and bumpy road getting there! I understand that the platform took off in ways Apple didn?t foresee, but I still believe they could have gotten their act together on all these issues?and the surrounding approval process?much more quickly. It?s very odd that they didn?t.
Better late than never... but they?ll have to stop scaring developers with big policy changes! Or developers of legitimate, awesome apps will be wondering who?s next. And then some good apps/games won?t get made if the risk is too great.
Wait a sec... isn't AppleInsider's iPhone App just, in essence, a reproducer of web content?
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Wait a sec... isn't AppleInsider's iPhone App just, in essence, a reproducer of web content?
Unless I'm missing something, AI does not have an iPhone app. They simply created an iPhone-friendly website that you simply add the bookmark to your home screen. It's not something that is retrieved necessarily from the App store.
But I really don?t think Apple had to make it quite such a long and bumpy road getting there! I understand that the platform took off in ways Apple didn?t foresee, but I still believe they could have gotten their act together on all these issues?and the surrounding approval process?much more quickly. It?s very odd that they didn?t.
I doubt anyone disputes that the whole process could have been smoother from the beginning. But remember:
1) Apple is hardly perfect. They've had false starts with numerous other products, such as MobileMe, the iPhone activation process, AppleTV, etc.
2) Setting a straightforward, unchanging policy looks obvious in hindsight, but Apple is in new territory with a lot of this. Name one other mobile/software vendor that has released a product of the iPhone's impact, and then describe if their followthrough has been without bumps. When one considers the entire iPhone ecosystem from beginning to end, there are a lot of moving parts, and plenty of areas where Apple could have done a lot worse. (Hell, look at Microsoft's entire mobile efforts to date!)
I think your sentiment is correct - the success of the iPhone and App Store probably took Apple by surprise (this very site documented the steps taken so far, including rapidly ramping up the developer approval process) and in the short term it's been rocky, but a year from now people will give this situation as much attention as they now do with the iPhone's initial lack of cut and paste. The mobile landscape is changing so rapidly that Apple's cleanup of their App Store will become a non-issue for most.
And to those who think that the other mobile software vendors won't have their share of hiccups and regrets, well, don't count on it.
I understand Apple's stance, but with their restrictions that seem to get ever tighter on developers, I can see developers moving toward Droid. Like I said, I understand Apple's intentions, but I'd rather see an open market.
If the ones making the ruckus about this want to leave to Droid, let them. I will gladly keep the door open for them.
"Real" developers know where the market is and they will continue developing for App store. The average joe-consumer will not take notice of what Apple is doing or not doing with the App store by removing crap apps. They will see high-quality, "real" apps and not the copy-kiddie amateurs.
It's actually quite funny to read how much of a pedestal you tech-heads put yourselves on. What's good for you must be what's good for everyone else. The real truth is that a company that bases their decisions on your whacked-out input would never survive in the real world for too long without being demoted to junk-status.
Even with tens-of-millions of iPhone buyers, you'll keep forecasting the doom-and-gloom of Apple's business practices. You've been proven wrong on so many levels.
Android will succeed to but only up to a point. Should Marketplace increase considerably in size, it would not surprise me at all if Google begins to clamp-down on the crapp-quality apps in their store too.
Keep up the good work Apple. You're known in the tech-world as the provider of a high-quality experience. You have more supporters than naysayers!
There are a lot of Mac OS X widgets that are little more than RSS feeds wrapped up in a pretty interface too. But those are okay. Hmm. Anyway. Whatever.
The basic problem is that you can buy apps ONLY at the app store. This was the decision that was stupidly wrong.
Every other decision was made necessary because of this first boneheaded decision. It wasn't thought through that it would put Apple in the role of censor. It wasn't thought through that developers would send technically acceptable, but crappy apps.
Or it was thought through, which would be even worse.
Apple is becoming their own worst enemy. They are making themselves into a punchline.
By that measure, maybe Apple should axe their "Weather" app? It's the equivalent of going to accuweather.com and entering your zip code.
I think the benefit of a simple app like that is the typical web page is a lot larger than the actual data set desired. In some cases, I imagine that the packet holding the core data could be just 1k, the web page might be 100k, as well as the device-side interpretation. Downloading the data vs. the entire web app can amount to a significant difference in speed, because a lot of the formatting / layout information is built into the local app.
I believe that so far nobody has found the weather app on the iPad, running 3.2, so maybe they are up to something.
However I agree with you on the second point.
It takes too darn long to review the apps in iTunes and the reviews are terrible and incomplete because of that reason.
On Apple's web site there isn't the layout for apps like there is for widgets and hardly any apps are listed.
Apple has never been even marginally competent at search.
Obviously, they need organization. But like so many of their decisions, if some aspect of something is too complicated to wrap their brains around, they simply excise it. Look at the missing features of their products for more examples.
[CENTER]Oh... Like Flash/YouTube/Hulu et al on almost every other platform (both currently and in the very near future) ?[/CENTER]
Just note: this only my opinion and does not have to be yours so don't start a words war. I'm an Apple fan too; I just don't always agree with them.
Turn in your computer and your mouse. You are no longer wanted around here.
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Those are major brands. Apple only shits on the little guys.
I understand Apple's stance, but with their restrictions that seem to get ever tighter on developers, I can see developers moving toward Droid. Like I said, I understand Apple's intentions, but I'd rather see an open market.
Good thing you're not in charge. "Open market" is a pipe dream. There have be be restrictions and standards enforced, or it's a dog's breakfast.
These higher quality standards will help the App Store grow even further.
Those are major brands. Apple only shits on the little guys.
And you must clearly feel like a very little guy.
Open those wallets, and pay Apple more money!
That's the first thing I thought of. There are a lot of apps that just repackage a site's content. NY Times, MSNBC, TUAW, Le Monde... Is this not the same?
Its an interesting point. Maybe these guys have been told to pull their apps and simply re-jig their websites for the iphone. The worst one was the BBC iPhone app. It pulled all the headlines in nicely re-formatted for the small screen but as soon as you clicked through to a story they just sent you to the normal three column web-site. Very useless. There are some apps that do more than reformat pages. The UK's The Guardian lets you download sections for off-line reading (handy if you commute via subway). The way you can configure the presentation of the news as well as which sections you re interested in, oh and and resize text size, are all worthwhile features.