Sad to hear all this, basically sounds like you pay highest price point for a laptop from Apple and get what? Not new tech thats been in dell/HP/Acer for the past few months (core i7 etc) and a company that doesn't want to change its ways from usb 2.0 , a now probably average quality webcam, and minidisplayport? wtf is that? lol. What do i own that i can plug that into? HDMI out is the only way to go for pure gorgeous video out to something like my 32 inch 1080P LCD TV. Sure does seem like once it is released most likely il be disapointed and stick to a company like dell or HP. Sounds like for all the love and loyalty apple has from its fan-boys, its products aren't any where near the cutting edge. If anything, $1700 for core i5 and 4 gigs of ram with a medicore video card is something i could find for $1000 any where else. Pitiful apple.
Who is first for new tech is not important, but quality and trust is. While you say Dell has the highest tech over Apple, all of Dell's products are poorly made and all use bad materials and very bad labor laws in other countries. What is the use of having up to date tech when it is made by cheap materials and assembled by children, YES children. If you endorse Chinese slave labor then buy a Dell. Be happy with your #1 cheap product and don't cry when your mother board dies in few years or your HD gets killed by viruses, or your wallet is emptied from having to protect and constant cleaning charges.
If you own a Dell and any component fails at least you only spent 300.00 for its making and spent 1000.00 or more from your wallet. Dell/Acer they are the K-MART brand of computers.
Who is first for new tech is not important, but quality and trust is. While you say Dell has the highest tech over Apple, all of Dell's products are poorly made and all use bad materials and very bad labor laws in other countries. What is the use of having up to date tech when it is made by cheap materials and assembled by children, YES children. If you endorse Chinese slave labor then buy a Dell. Be happy with your #1 cheap product and don't cry when your mother board dies in few years or your HD gets killed by viruses, or your wallet is emptied from having to protect and constant cleaning charges.
If you own a Dell and any component fails at least you only spent 300.00 for its making and spent 1000.00 or more from your wallet. Dell/Acer they are the K-MART brand of computers.
I think thats a little extreme and with no proof given, there isnt much point in saying all of that. I have a dell and not only was it the ranked #1 laptop (inspiron 6000) by every computer magazine and website at the time of release, but iv also been very happy with my dell service. Do i disagree that built in america is better? no. Do i disagree that the other companies seem to build at a lower quality? no. But will i buy a third rate laptop (as far as specs are concerned) for a first rate price just because its apple? no. All those reasons you listed as why dell is crappy and why apple is great, should also go towards the fact that apple if they truely wanted to...could get off their ass and intergrate what it seems everyone wants in a laptop right now. USB 3.0 Core i7 etc. Instead it seems from comments above...they are always 2 steps behind when it comes to specs, im just disapointed because when i started thinking about buying laptops, i thought well hey with the 2000 i will have that i can spend on a laptop.."why not go all out and get the best..a Macbook pro. They seem to be cutting edge and on their game and high quality"
Well it seems i was only partly right, high quality yes, cutting edge, no. I always respected apple cause at their First rate price points, i always thought they were first rate cause their hardware was the best out. Now your telling me they are slow to adapt (boarderline stubborn by not adding hdmi out) and will have average hardware (i5, 4 gigs ram) for $1700???
I still will watch and see what they release, but as far as my concluding opinion on the knowledge gathered so far in this thread. Im very disapointed with what apple has to offer and had much higher expectations. But i guess that means im officially a Apple Fan-boy..cause i had high expectations and they werent met and i am disapointed. That is what i hear is the one and only requirement for being a Apple fan boy.
Wintard pretends to seek advice so he can gleefully conclude Apple sux and fan boys are stupid.
Gosh, never seen that before.
haha maybe its so prevalent because we (windows users) give you guys (apple fan boys) a shot and want to see what the hype is about and if it lives up...we seek advice...we get it and omg what a suprise...disapointment. If the ipad (glorified XL iphone), Iphone (good, but married to AT&T? pass) and a Macbook pro with i5, 4gigs of ram for $1700 is what apple has to offer...then no duh we arent gonna bite into the apple.
There was no pretending Dbag. My older brother bought a macbook pro (core2duo) recently and my uncle is a apple fan (he is a video editing professor) and with coming into money i seriously was curious and hyped for not getting a shady toshiba or w/e..but going all out for a macbook pro.
Maybe the issue isnt we are pretending, or that we hate apple, cause i (a windows lover) have never hated apple, its just been more a elitist arrogant brand and products. BUT on the same coin, i always thought they had a right to love their products cause i always THOUGHT they were cutting edge and worth the extreme prices.
I think a lot of Windows fans think that way, so the "typical disapointment" that your bitching about, is less about wanting to hate on apple, and more about holding the company in high regards as a outsider, but then when looking inside thinking about getting a mac, they see its not all its cracked up to be.
Yeah, Apple looks vaguely appealing as long as you don't actually pay attention but a cursory drive by check-out confirms your worst suspicions, complete with bog standard Wintard "LOL I can build an awesome rig for a third the money, losers." Nothing prejudicial about that.
We get your kind of poster pretty frequently. "Hi fan boys, prove to me your beloved Apple crap isn't in fact overpriced and underpowered. Oh, and if you get defensive from my tone, it's because you're a stupid fan boy. Now answer my question." Always works out great.
BTW, why are you still here? You now know for sure that Apple Sux?, that pretty much concludes your business, yeah?
Yeah, Apple looks vaguely appealing as long as you don't actually pay attention but a cursory drive by check-out confirms your worst suspicions, complete with bog standard Wintard "LOL I can build an awesome rig for a third the money, losers." Nothing prejudicial about that.
We get your kind of poster pretty frequently. "Hi fan boys, prove to me your beloved Apple crap isn't in fact overpriced and underpowered. Oh, and if you get defensive from my tone, it's because you're a stupid fan boy. Now answer my question." Always works out great.
BTW, why are you still here? You now know for sure that Apple Sux™, that pretty much concludes your business, yeah?
Lol feel free to put extreme quotes in my mouth. I never said it was crap to begin with, i said i held it in high regard but wasnt a fan of the way apple is as a company. I never said PROVE THIS! i think ur just always on the defense. And btw building a better or equal rig for half the money is a valid point when it comes to any product. Would you buy a table for 1000$ when you could build it for 333$ yourself and it be just as good looking, just as sturdy and same type of wood?
Oh and im still here cause u keep re posting, and im curious if a non ass apple fan will pop in and give a good nice opinion or if it will just be you putting words in my mouth as a way to argue.
You don't pay the premium price for the raw hardware.
Apple commands a higher price because of the way it is put together, and (mostly) for the fact that it's running OSX.
Some of us are content to pay the premium price for that combination. If you're not, well, there's nothing wrong with running Windows on a Dell either (despite what "we" sometimes say )
You don't pay the premium price for the raw hardware.
Apple commands a higher price because of the way it is put together, and (mostly) for the fact that it's running OSX.
Some of us are content to pay the premium price for that combination. If you're not, well, there's nothing wrong with running Windows on a Dell either (despite what "we" sometimes say )
As usual, it only takes a couple of posts for the true character to emerge.... but what I find curious is that even the first post is pretty unconvincing.
As usual, it only takes a couple of posts for the true character to emerge.... but what I find curious is that even the first post is pretty unconvincing.
I'm kind of amused by the idea that after concluding that Macs are grossly overpriced and technologically inferior dude wants to stick around in case someone more accommodating shows up. Maybe he's looking for an apology from Mac users for liking their hardware.
If Nate used all of the time he spent typing volumes in this thread instead on doing a little web research, he would have found most of the answers that anyone can speculate on.
Apple may migrate to HDMI ports some day but even if they don't, all you need is a MDP-->HDMI adapter which can picked up for next to nothing.
If Nate used all of the time he spent typing volumes in this thread instead on doing a little web research, he would have found most of the answers that anyone can speculate on.
Apple may migrate to HDMI ports some day but even if they don't, all you need is a MDP-->HDMI adapter which can picked up for next to nothing.
Yes, but doing research online isn't nearly as much fun as setting up the conversation with the "Macs sux" payoff.
Lol what is the point of a forum if not to ask questions that you dont know the answer to but others do know the answer to... There are 2 options, do the research yourself and look through 50 different websites for info thats vague. Or go to a forum that specializes in that info and just ask on there.
Also damn lol, you guys have some crazy negitivity and sceptisism. Your attacked so much that when someone comes along honestly curious, gets the answers and is un impressed and states as much, you burn him at the stake and say he always hated mac and just wanted to fight.
Take it how you want it, but i got the info i needed, and btw writing my posts even though long took only 3 minutes or less, advantage of 90WPM typing. So the arguement of "time wasted" ..is null and void.
Lol what is the point of a forum if not to ask questions that you dont know the answer to but others do know the answer to... There are 2 options, do the research yourself and look through 50 different websites for info thats vague. Or go to a forum that specializes in that info and just ask on there.
Also damn lol, you guys have some crazy negitivity and sceptisism. Your attacked so much that when someone comes along honestly curious, gets the answers and is un impressed and states as much, you burn him at the stake and say he always hated mac and just wanted to fight.
Take it how you want it, but i got the info i needed, and btw writing my posts even though long took only 3 minutes or less, advantage of 90WPM typing. So the arguement of "time wasted" ..is null and void.
If you went into this site with a self perpetual idea that Apple (Mac) were bad that what was the point in the first place. If it was your intention to troll Post Sites for answers and that you already had an opinion about then you found the right place. There are plenty of Ass's on this site to feed your ego. \
Would you buy a table for 1000$ when you could build it for 333$ yourself and it be just as good looking, just as sturdy and same type of wood?
If it took me hours to build (analogous to the time Windows users waste fixing problems and installing/updating AV protection and other software the comes prebuilt into OS X), as well as requiring the purchase of the proper tools, if necessary (the cost of said software) to make it the same, then hell no, I would just buy a table (computer) that just works the way I want it to right out of the box.
This type of thread from a Windows user is common but it's just human nature. If you are looking to make a major switch in any product, you naturally try to be as critical of the change to make sure it's worth the effort and it often comes across as offensive. Then comes the arguing and both stereotypes remain - the defensive Mac users who blindly buy underpowered, expensive hardware and the offensive, mocking Windows user who refuses to make the switch as it's not worth it.
Looking at the big picture though, there are some points that get missed out. Apple do charge a premium for hardware but the platform has extra value that makes it worth using. Apple don't always use the latest and greatest hardware but it means your old hardware retains its value longer. And on the other hand, the PC side does have really great deals and not all terrible quality.
I think Apple's next update to the Core i-series is overdue as well as GPU upgrades.
The Optimus chips from NVidia seem to be the next step but Apple write their own drivers so it may take time to get right and the 10.6.3 update with new drivers is coming soon so it's a possible hint of new laptops next Tuesday with updated GPUs.
In order to keep the laptops cool and allow 7 hours of use on a single charge, they use mid-range products.
I expect the Core i5 540M to be used along with the NVidia 230M or ATI 5650
This way, when the GPU isn't required, it shuts off and uses the Intel GPU inside the Core i5.
I would doubt HDMI output but you just get a $10-20 adaptor.
Hard drive probably the same but have options up to 640GB.
4GB RAM with up to 8GB supported - you're only realistically going to get up to 8 with 2 slots and only really have 4GB. Hardly anyone needs over 4GB and individual 4GB modules are still very expensive.
USB 3 I would hope for but no Blu-Ray. It's still not really necessary to get USB 3 either when you have FW800 as it saturates hard drive transfer rates for the most part.
This model will be $1700.
Now you can already get an Acer Core i5 430M 15" with 4GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, 500GB drive for $750
So it's a valid question why pay nearly $1000 more just for a Mac.
Obviously the build quality is better and the design is better as it's all solid aluminium.
The internal design is better and generally cooled properly for quiet operation.
The display quality is usually (but wasn't in earlier models) better than average with better viewing angles.
You get various extras like brightness sensors, backlit keyboard, more rugged keyboard due to metal between keys, multi-touch trackpad, magnetic power cord and of course OS X.
OS X means you don't get bombarded with popup balloons, horrible on-screen aliased rendering, anti-virus requirements, malware popups and so on.
For some it's worth it, for others it's not. I personally don't like Apple's slowness to update hardware and I find their prices expensive. I do see and appreciate the value in their products though. If they made the 15" models at the $1200 price and had i5s with Radeon 5650 or decent NVidia chips, I think it would be a no-brainer choosing between a $750 Acer and $1200 Mac.
Right now, just before an update is coming, it's really difficult to justify the expense of Apple's products because it's essentially old hardware at new prices. The competitive PC industry keeps the prices dropping.
I love the MacBook Pro. I'm actually typing this message on a 2 1/2 year old MacBook Pro under the Boot Camp partition with Ultimate Windows 7 installed. It runs fine. (Of course I have Snow Leopard installed on the Mac parition.) I do graphic and web development and it runs the Adobe CS4 suite just fine.
This type of thread from a Windows user is common but it's just human nature. If you are looking to make a major switch in any product, you naturally try to be as critical of the change to make sure it's worth the effort and it often comes across as offensive. Then comes the arguing and both stereotypes remain - the defensive Mac users who blindly buy underpowered, expensive hardware and the offensive, mocking Windows user who refuses to make the switch as it's not worth it.
Looking at the big picture though, there are some points that get missed out. Apple do charge a premium for hardware but the platform has extra value that makes it worth using. Apple don't always use the latest and greatest hardware but it means your old hardware retains its value longer. And on the other hand, the PC side does have really great deals and not all terrible quality.
I think Apple's next update to the Core i-series is overdue as well as GPU upgrades.
The Optimus chips from NVidia seem to be the next step but Apple write their own drivers so it may take time to get right and the 10.6.3 update with new drivers is coming soon so it's a possible hint of new laptops next Tuesday with updated GPUs.
In order to keep the laptops cool and allow 7 hours of use on a single charge, they use mid-range products.
I expect the Core i5 540M to be used along with the NVidia 230M or ATI 5650
This way, when the GPU isn't required, it shuts off and uses the Intel GPU inside the Core i5.
I would doubt HDMI output but you just get a $10-20 adaptor.
Hard drive probably the same but have options up to 640GB.
4GB RAM with up to 8GB supported - you're only realistically going to get up to 8 with 2 slots and only really have 4GB. Hardly anyone needs over 4GB and individual 4GB modules are still very expensive.
USB 3 I would hope for but no Blu-Ray. It's still not really necessary to get USB 3 either when you have FW800 as it saturates hard drive transfer rates for the most part.
This model will be $1700.
Now you can already get an Acer Core i5 430M 15" with 4GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, 500GB drive for $750
So it's a valid question why pay nearly $1000 more just for a Mac.
Obviously the build quality is better and the design is better as it's all solid aluminium.
The internal design is better and generally cooled properly for quiet operation.
The display quality is usually (but wasn't in earlier models) better than average with better viewing angles.
You get various extras like brightness sensors, backlit keyboard, more rugged keyboard due to metal between keys, multi-touch trackpad, magnetic power cord and of course OS X.
OS X means you don't get bombarded with popup balloons, horrible on-screen aliased rendering, anti-virus requirements, malware popups and so on.
For some it's worth it, for others it's not. I personally don't like Apple's slowness to update hardware and I find their prices expensive. I do see and appreciate the value in their products though. If they made the 15" models at the $1200 price and had i5s with Radeon 5650 or decent NVidia chips, I think it would be a no-brainer choosing between a $750 Acer and $1200 Mac.
Right now, just before an update is coming, it's really difficult to justify the expense of Apple's products because it's essentially old hardware at new prices. The competitive PC industry keeps the prices dropping.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was so well put and TOTALLY what i wanted to hear. THIS is why i waited through the arguing. That really helps and gives me perspective. That view of apple and the macbook pro really helps and has me putting the macbook pro back on my radar. Cause your right, i might find a i7 with a amazing GPU for the same price, but the dependability and well built (and battery life-7 hours) of the macbook pro is really something to consider.
What im curious about, is they are saying (rumors) that considering the update in the Macbook, how it was improved so much, close to a Pro specs, some people are thinking apple might go the extra step and make the Pro just that much better, so the gap between Macbook and Macbook Pro is a big one again like it used to be. If thats the case then i will definitely get a Macbook Pro.
If however what you expect the hardware to be is what it actually is, i will have to think about it for a long time. $1000 more for Apple....thats gonna be a hard choice for me.
Thank you though, for explaining so correctly how we (apple fan boys/Windows lovers) come off isnt exactly how we are.
Marvin thank you for the well written response. I have been a MAC user for the last 2 years and can confirm to M3rc Nate that the difference in price is worth it in the long run.
I got my Dad a windows machine (that was what he wanted) at the same time I purchased my macbook and for the first 9 months that he had it I seemed to spend an awful lot of my time trying to get it to work properly due to it running the wonderful vista!!
In the end he asked me to get him exactly what I have got and for the last 18 months I have not had to sort any issues out with it.
In my opinion yes the hardware could be upgraded sooner but in the long run the price difference still makes buying a MAC the better option.
Comments
Sad to hear all this, basically sounds like you pay highest price point for a laptop from Apple and get what? Not new tech thats been in dell/HP/Acer for the past few months (core i7 etc) and a company that doesn't want to change its ways from usb 2.0 , a now probably average quality webcam, and minidisplayport? wtf is that? lol. What do i own that i can plug that into? HDMI out is the only way to go for pure gorgeous video out to something like my 32 inch 1080P LCD TV. Sure does seem like once it is released most likely il be disapointed and stick to a company like dell or HP. Sounds like for all the love and loyalty apple has from its fan-boys, its products aren't any where near the cutting edge. If anything, $1700 for core i5 and 4 gigs of ram with a medicore video card is something i could find for $1000 any where else. Pitiful apple.
Who is first for new tech is not important, but quality and trust is. While you say Dell has the highest tech over Apple, all of Dell's products are poorly made and all use bad materials and very bad labor laws in other countries. What is the use of having up to date tech when it is made by cheap materials and assembled by children, YES children. If you endorse Chinese slave labor then buy a Dell. Be happy with your #1 cheap product and don't cry when your mother board dies in few years or your HD gets killed by viruses, or your wallet is emptied from having to protect and constant cleaning charges.
If you own a Dell and any component fails at least you only spent 300.00 for its making and spent 1000.00 or more from your wallet. Dell/Acer they are the K-MART brand of computers.
Gosh, never seen that before.
Who is first for new tech is not important, but quality and trust is. While you say Dell has the highest tech over Apple, all of Dell's products are poorly made and all use bad materials and very bad labor laws in other countries. What is the use of having up to date tech when it is made by cheap materials and assembled by children, YES children. If you endorse Chinese slave labor then buy a Dell. Be happy with your #1 cheap product and don't cry when your mother board dies in few years or your HD gets killed by viruses, or your wallet is emptied from having to protect and constant cleaning charges.
If you own a Dell and any component fails at least you only spent 300.00 for its making and spent 1000.00 or more from your wallet. Dell/Acer they are the K-MART brand of computers.
I think thats a little extreme and with no proof given, there isnt much point in saying all of that. I have a dell and not only was it the ranked #1 laptop (inspiron 6000) by every computer magazine and website at the time of release, but iv also been very happy with my dell service. Do i disagree that built in america is better? no. Do i disagree that the other companies seem to build at a lower quality? no. But will i buy a third rate laptop (as far as specs are concerned) for a first rate price just because its apple? no. All those reasons you listed as why dell is crappy and why apple is great, should also go towards the fact that apple if they truely wanted to...could get off their ass and intergrate what it seems everyone wants in a laptop right now. USB 3.0 Core i7 etc. Instead it seems from comments above...they are always 2 steps behind when it comes to specs, im just disapointed because when i started thinking about buying laptops, i thought well hey with the 2000 i will have that i can spend on a laptop.."why not go all out and get the best..a Macbook pro. They seem to be cutting edge and on their game and high quality"
Well it seems i was only partly right, high quality yes, cutting edge, no. I always respected apple cause at their First rate price points, i always thought they were first rate cause their hardware was the best out. Now your telling me they are slow to adapt (boarderline stubborn by not adding hdmi out) and will have average hardware (i5, 4 gigs ram) for $1700???
I still will watch and see what they release, but as far as my concluding opinion on the knowledge gathered so far in this thread. Im very disapointed with what apple has to offer and had much higher expectations. But i guess that means im officially a Apple Fan-boy..cause i had high expectations and they werent met and i am disapointed. That is what i hear is the one and only requirement for being a Apple fan boy.
Wintard pretends to seek advice so he can gleefully conclude Apple sux and fan boys are stupid.
Gosh, never seen that before.
haha maybe its so prevalent because we (windows users) give you guys (apple fan boys) a shot and want to see what the hype is about and if it lives up...we seek advice...we get it and omg what a suprise...disapointment. If the ipad (glorified XL iphone), Iphone (good, but married to AT&T? pass) and a Macbook pro with i5, 4gigs of ram for $1700 is what apple has to offer...then no duh we arent gonna bite into the apple.
There was no pretending Dbag. My older brother bought a macbook pro (core2duo) recently and my uncle is a apple fan (he is a video editing professor) and with coming into money i seriously was curious and hyped for not getting a shady toshiba or w/e..but going all out for a macbook pro.
Maybe the issue isnt we are pretending, or that we hate apple, cause i (a windows lover) have never hated apple, its just been more a elitist arrogant brand and products. BUT on the same coin, i always thought they had a right to love their products cause i always THOUGHT they were cutting edge and worth the extreme prices.
I think a lot of Windows fans think that way, so the "typical disapointment" that your bitching about, is less about wanting to hate on apple, and more about holding the company in high regards as a outsider, but then when looking inside thinking about getting a mac, they see its not all its cracked up to be.
We get your kind of poster pretty frequently. "Hi fan boys, prove to me your beloved Apple crap isn't in fact overpriced and underpowered. Oh, and if you get defensive from my tone, it's because you're a stupid fan boy. Now answer my question." Always works out great.
BTW, why are you still here? You now know for sure that Apple Sux?, that pretty much concludes your business, yeah?
Yeah, Apple looks vaguely appealing as long as you don't actually pay attention but a cursory drive by check-out confirms your worst suspicions, complete with bog standard Wintard "LOL I can build an awesome rig for a third the money, losers." Nothing prejudicial about that.
We get your kind of poster pretty frequently. "Hi fan boys, prove to me your beloved Apple crap isn't in fact overpriced and underpowered. Oh, and if you get defensive from my tone, it's because you're a stupid fan boy. Now answer my question." Always works out great.
BTW, why are you still here? You now know for sure that Apple Sux™, that pretty much concludes your business, yeah?
Lol feel free to put extreme quotes in my mouth. I never said it was crap to begin with, i said i held it in high regard but wasnt a fan of the way apple is as a company. I never said PROVE THIS! i think ur just always on the defense. And btw building a better or equal rig for half the money is a valid point when it comes to any product. Would you buy a table for 1000$ when you could build it for 333$ yourself and it be just as good looking, just as sturdy and same type of wood?
Oh and im still here cause u keep re posting, and im curious if a non ass apple fan will pop in and give a good nice opinion or if it will just be you putting words in my mouth as a way to argue.
Apple commands a higher price because of the way it is put together, and (mostly) for the fact that it's running OSX.
Some of us are content to pay the premium price for that combination. If you're not, well, there's nothing wrong with running Windows on a Dell either (despite what "we" sometimes say
You don't pay the premium price for the raw hardware.
Apple commands a higher price because of the way it is put together, and (mostly) for the fact that it's running OSX.
Some of us are content to pay the premium price for that combination. If you're not, well, there's nothing wrong with running Windows on a Dell either (despite what "we" sometimes say
I totally agree. Well stated and complete.
As usual, it only takes a couple of posts for the true character to emerge.... but what I find curious is that even the first post is pretty unconvincing.
This thread. Pathetic yet inevitable.
As usual, it only takes a couple of posts for the true character to emerge.... but what I find curious is that even the first post is pretty unconvincing.
I'm kind of amused by the idea that after concluding that Macs are grossly overpriced and technologically inferior dude wants to stick around in case someone more accommodating shows up. Maybe he's looking for an apology from Mac users for liking their hardware.
Apple may migrate to HDMI ports some day but even if they don't, all you need is a MDP-->HDMI adapter which can picked up for next to nothing.
If Nate used all of the time he spent typing volumes in this thread instead on doing a little web research, he would have found most of the answers that anyone can speculate on.
Apple may migrate to HDMI ports some day but even if they don't, all you need is a MDP-->HDMI adapter which can picked up for next to nothing.
Yes, but doing research online isn't nearly as much fun as setting up the conversation with the "Macs sux" payoff.
Also damn lol, you guys have some crazy negitivity and sceptisism. Your attacked so much that when someone comes along honestly curious, gets the answers and is un impressed and states as much, you burn him at the stake and say he always hated mac and just wanted to fight.
Take it how you want it, but i got the info i needed, and btw writing my posts even though long took only 3 minutes or less, advantage of 90WPM typing. So the arguement of "time wasted" ..is null and void.
Lol what is the point of a forum if not to ask questions that you dont know the answer to but others do know the answer to... There are 2 options, do the research yourself and look through 50 different websites for info thats vague. Or go to a forum that specializes in that info and just ask on there.
Also damn lol, you guys have some crazy negitivity and sceptisism. Your attacked so much that when someone comes along honestly curious, gets the answers and is un impressed and states as much, you burn him at the stake and say he always hated mac and just wanted to fight.
Take it how you want it, but i got the info i needed, and btw writing my posts even though long took only 3 minutes or less, advantage of 90WPM typing. So the arguement of "time wasted" ..is null and void.
If you went into this site with a self perpetual idea that Apple (Mac) were bad that what was the point in the first place. If it was your intention to troll Post Sites for answers and that you already had an opinion about then you found the right place. There are plenty of Ass's on this site to feed your ego.
Would you buy a table for 1000$ when you could build it for 333$ yourself and it be just as good looking, just as sturdy and same type of wood?
If it took me hours to build (analogous to the time Windows users waste fixing problems and installing/updating AV protection and other software the comes prebuilt into OS X), as well as requiring the purchase of the proper tools, if necessary (the cost of said software) to make it the same, then hell no, I would just buy a table (computer) that just works the way I want it to right out of the box.
Looking at the big picture though, there are some points that get missed out. Apple do charge a premium for hardware but the platform has extra value that makes it worth using. Apple don't always use the latest and greatest hardware but it means your old hardware retains its value longer. And on the other hand, the PC side does have really great deals and not all terrible quality.
I think Apple's next update to the Core i-series is overdue as well as GPU upgrades.
The Optimus chips from NVidia seem to be the next step but Apple write their own drivers so it may take time to get right and the 10.6.3 update with new drivers is coming soon so it's a possible hint of new laptops next Tuesday with updated GPUs.
In order to keep the laptops cool and allow 7 hours of use on a single charge, they use mid-range products.
I expect the Core i5 540M to be used along with the NVidia 230M or ATI 5650
This way, when the GPU isn't required, it shuts off and uses the Intel GPU inside the Core i5.
I would doubt HDMI output but you just get a $10-20 adaptor.
Hard drive probably the same but have options up to 640GB.
4GB RAM with up to 8GB supported - you're only realistically going to get up to 8 with 2 slots and only really have 4GB. Hardly anyone needs over 4GB and individual 4GB modules are still very expensive.
USB 3 I would hope for but no Blu-Ray. It's still not really necessary to get USB 3 either when you have FW800 as it saturates hard drive transfer rates for the most part.
This model will be $1700.
Now you can already get an Acer Core i5 430M 15" with 4GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, 500GB drive for $750
So it's a valid question why pay nearly $1000 more just for a Mac.
Obviously the build quality is better and the design is better as it's all solid aluminium.
The internal design is better and generally cooled properly for quiet operation.
The display quality is usually (but wasn't in earlier models) better than average with better viewing angles.
You get various extras like brightness sensors, backlit keyboard, more rugged keyboard due to metal between keys, multi-touch trackpad, magnetic power cord and of course OS X.
OS X means you don't get bombarded with popup balloons, horrible on-screen aliased rendering, anti-virus requirements, malware popups and so on.
For some it's worth it, for others it's not. I personally don't like Apple's slowness to update hardware and I find their prices expensive. I do see and appreciate the value in their products though. If they made the 15" models at the $1200 price and had i5s with Radeon 5650 or decent NVidia chips, I think it would be a no-brainer choosing between a $750 Acer and $1200 Mac.
Right now, just before an update is coming, it's really difficult to justify the expense of Apple's products because it's essentially old hardware at new prices. The competitive PC industry keeps the prices dropping.
This type of thread from a Windows user is common but it's just human nature. If you are looking to make a major switch in any product, you naturally try to be as critical of the change to make sure it's worth the effort and it often comes across as offensive. Then comes the arguing and both stereotypes remain - the defensive Mac users who blindly buy underpowered, expensive hardware and the offensive, mocking Windows user who refuses to make the switch as it's not worth it.
Looking at the big picture though, there are some points that get missed out. Apple do charge a premium for hardware but the platform has extra value that makes it worth using. Apple don't always use the latest and greatest hardware but it means your old hardware retains its value longer. And on the other hand, the PC side does have really great deals and not all terrible quality.
I think Apple's next update to the Core i-series is overdue as well as GPU upgrades.
The Optimus chips from NVidia seem to be the next step but Apple write their own drivers so it may take time to get right and the 10.6.3 update with new drivers is coming soon so it's a possible hint of new laptops next Tuesday with updated GPUs.
In order to keep the laptops cool and allow 7 hours of use on a single charge, they use mid-range products.
I expect the Core i5 540M to be used along with the NVidia 230M or ATI 5650
This way, when the GPU isn't required, it shuts off and uses the Intel GPU inside the Core i5.
I would doubt HDMI output but you just get a $10-20 adaptor.
Hard drive probably the same but have options up to 640GB.
4GB RAM with up to 8GB supported - you're only realistically going to get up to 8 with 2 slots and only really have 4GB. Hardly anyone needs over 4GB and individual 4GB modules are still very expensive.
USB 3 I would hope for but no Blu-Ray. It's still not really necessary to get USB 3 either when you have FW800 as it saturates hard drive transfer rates for the most part.
This model will be $1700.
Now you can already get an Acer Core i5 430M 15" with 4GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, 500GB drive for $750
So it's a valid question why pay nearly $1000 more just for a Mac.
Obviously the build quality is better and the design is better as it's all solid aluminium.
The internal design is better and generally cooled properly for quiet operation.
The display quality is usually (but wasn't in earlier models) better than average with better viewing angles.
You get various extras like brightness sensors, backlit keyboard, more rugged keyboard due to metal between keys, multi-touch trackpad, magnetic power cord and of course OS X.
OS X means you don't get bombarded with popup balloons, horrible on-screen aliased rendering, anti-virus requirements, malware popups and so on.
For some it's worth it, for others it's not. I personally don't like Apple's slowness to update hardware and I find their prices expensive. I do see and appreciate the value in their products though. If they made the 15" models at the $1200 price and had i5s with Radeon 5650 or decent NVidia chips, I think it would be a no-brainer choosing between a $750 Acer and $1200 Mac.
Right now, just before an update is coming, it's really difficult to justify the expense of Apple's products because it's essentially old hardware at new prices. The competitive PC industry keeps the prices dropping.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was so well put and TOTALLY what i wanted to hear. THIS is why i waited through the arguing. That really helps and gives me perspective. That view of apple and the macbook pro really helps and has me putting the macbook pro back on my radar. Cause your right, i might find a i7 with a amazing GPU for the same price, but the dependability and well built (and battery life-7 hours) of the macbook pro is really something to consider.
What im curious about, is they are saying (rumors) that considering the update in the Macbook, how it was improved so much, close to a Pro specs, some people are thinking apple might go the extra step and make the Pro just that much better, so the gap between Macbook and Macbook Pro is a big one again like it used to be. If thats the case then i will definitely get a Macbook Pro.
If however what you expect the hardware to be is what it actually is, i will have to think about it for a long time. $1000 more for Apple....thats gonna be a hard choice for me.
Thank you though, for explaining so correctly how we (apple fan boys/Windows lovers) come off isnt exactly how we are.
I got my Dad a windows machine (that was what he wanted) at the same time I purchased my macbook and for the first 9 months that he had it I seemed to spend an awful lot of my time trying to get it to work properly due to it running the wonderful vista!!
In the end he asked me to get him exactly what I have got and for the last 18 months I have not had to sort any issues out with it.
In my opinion yes the hardware could be upgraded sooner but in the long run the price difference still makes buying a MAC the better option.