Well, I would say they spent a few billion making windows a great operating system this generation and making xbox 360 an amazing living room device that Apples ATV can't even compete with.
Even if you don't like Nokia they still have quite a stranglehold on the smartphone space and has enough money to keep their platform going, just like Microsoft.
Palm doesn't have the dough to keep fighting, and Palm made some SERIOUS errors that has brought about it's impending downfall
Nokia can barely choke their own chicken let alone strangle the market. In many other threads, we have previously noted that the Nokia definition of smartfone includes many models and millions of sales that are not remotely competitive with iPhone/Android/WebOS - lots of basic music phones with crappy browsers. If you only count N-series and E-series (weak) the Nokia share is much lower. Nokia are losing share in developed markets and are compensating in emerging markets like INdia but there is no likelihood that it can defend those positions without radically better product. They may well produce such kit but we haven't seen it yet.
X-box ecosystem is getting better but is still hardcore gamer/geek territory. The mass market has no interest in it. The Zune/Win7 phone may get some mass participation in the x-box ecosystem but until then it will always be niche and way behind iTunes in share/scale and power. Geeks will never move the market.
Comparing Palm to Nokia and Microsoft is dumb. Palm is a tiny, tiny company without the resources to properly compete in such a global and competitive marketplace.
Let's remember that Symbian has been the number one selling smartphone operating system every year since the term smartphone was invented. It's sold around 300 million units to date. To say that Palm's failure to compete casts doubt over Nokia's potential to compete is utter nonsense when Nokia sells more smartphones than Apple and RIM combined!
The upcoming refresh of Symbian isn't revolutionary. But it does make app development a whole lot nicer and it does put it on a rough par with its competitors. Nokia are in a position where all they need to do is to stop people switching to a different manufacturer in order to win. That's a luxury Palm has never had.
And Microsoft, despite suffering declining marketshare at the moment, has the resources and services in place to compete. They have the music store, the app store, video, games, e-mail and every other piece of the jigsaw. Palm never had any of this and that's why they had to piggy-back onto iTunes.
Hey analysts, 95% of the world's population lives outside of the US. Maybe you should figure that into your analysis?
Cool sig. Anway. I think windows phones might do well. Was just reading if you can write for xbox you can write for their new phones.
But who writes for Xbox? Does it have a large developer community who are making things for xbox? I see that existing windows coders could migrate easily but I don't know what active base there is. If the platform is deemed to be a failure, developers will not write for it which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, It will be interesting to see how MS combat this.
Although I am hoping that Palm manages to stay afloat it's going to be a hell of a ride for them. They made too many mistakes with webOS and their new products. For one I think their biggest mistake was to go exclusive with the worst carrier in the US. I am not a fan of those exclusive deals anyway. Why go exclusive? They could have just released the product and put it on all the carrier's shelfs where people could have either bought it on contract or just the phone by itself. I am certain they would have sold much more and they wouldn't be here today trying to stay afloat, it is good seeing them do it now though and get on more carriers but it's a little too late as their product hardware looks a bit aged and poorly designed.
They do have a great concept its just not executed well. Their phone is flawed and made like a toy so improving their materials and also that keyboard there is no way around it.
I'm not sure why this article has anything to do with Nokia. Palm is nothing compared to Nokia. Microsoft is nothing in mobile what Nokia is to this mobile industry. I do agree to some extend that the iPhone will be the top niche platform of the future or at least it has the potential to be that depends on Apple and what decisions they'll take down the road. Nokia with their overhauled Symbian platform will be right behind it. If anything Nokia and their platform have the most potential of any company because they make hardware and software on an open stable platform. They have made too many mistakes in the past though and dropped the ball too many times and although they have one of the most stable OS out there for mobile I dont think they have the vision to lead and thats why Nokia will be right behind Apple in smartphones, they still will own the lower segment.
Apple can only claim the topspot if they bring out more phones though, they will not be able to beat Nokia long term with only one phone. Apple needs about 3 to 4 form factors. They dont have to look too different from each other, they could actually keep the same screen size but what they need is a slide out qwerty keyboard one in portrait and one in landscape format to win this battle and they need to scratch the exclusive deals, iPhones need to be on every carrier shelf in the world.
Apple is the only company in this industry that has a must have product but they need to offer their customers more to keep them happy. Many see it as must have device because of their integrated iPod and iTunes/App store but a lot hold back on silly things like lack of multi-tasking, locked to a carrier, low cam pixels, no keyboard, can't teather, no file transfers over bluetooth, i dont even think you can sync wirelessly with your pc; all things Apple could answer with a quick update and change of sales strategy! Those silly shortcomings will only upset the customer and possibly have them bail out to another platform and that's where Nokia and others are gonna be waiting.
Nokia can barely choke their own chicken let alone strangle the market. In many other threads, we have previously noted that the Nokia definition of smartfone includes many models and millions of sales that are not remotely competitive with iPhone/Android/WebOS - lots of basic music phones with crappy browsers.
Every single one of those phones comes with a WebKit browser capable of displaying most Flash content. They support push e-mail, they can multitask, they can run native third party applications and all come with at least an ARM11 CPU. The only real missing feature is a touchscreen and even that isn't true on the best selling models (5800, 5230, etc.).
Obviously it's a little more complicated than that. I mean, if you can write for Mac OS X, you can write for iPhone, but there are still a ton of other considerations and inner-working intricacies that need to be taken into account.
It's part of the whole design. It's fine...I think, a fresh idea. I didn't like it at first, but it has grown on me. I love the WinPho7 UI and those Sergoe fonts are absolutely awesome!
Well it's true that if something says Friend and half an "s", it's Friends but why not make the font a tad smaller so it fits. I also like the UI and wil take a look at it when I can and it does look like you might be able to do some cool things on it.
With regard to the programming, the article really stated it would be super easy for xbox programmers to do very little to port their games.
I wonder what their app store will offer. In a few years, everyone will have an app store. Should be fun times. One dream would be to record 24 bit and have an amp sim fir a guitar and a portable studio with templates. Has anyone listen to band in a boxes latest stuff? Real samples now. Lady on the phone said the mac version is oming in a fee weeks at a significant discount. Sounds pretty good.
Palm tried to make the Pre the anti-Apple iPhone. They were banking on a lot of pent up demand for an iPhone that was not produced by the "evil"empire of Apple. They hoisted the pirate banner around which the Apple haters could rally. The problem with that plan was that there just weren't enough of them. Most people who wanted an iPhone, bought an iPhone and were very happy. There were not enough people with an emotional reason to not purchase the Apple original as opposed to the anti-Apple knock off.
...And it was a knock off.
When it was first released, everyone was publicly wondering why Apple didn't sue them. Even the Palm supporters were bracing for a legal battle. There was never going to be a defense of innocence, but a countersuit that featured their own patten portfolio. Palm publicly ripped off the iPhone OS and proceeded to rum Apple's nose in it by their iTunes actions. The whole card metaphor that people seem to love so much is a direct copy of Apple's Safari interface. Ooo... pinch to make pictures bigger. Wow... video editing implemented just like the iPhone. The PDK is only a thinly disguised iPhone app porting kit. The only apps in their catalogue worth having are iPhone ports. One of the most oft asked questions on Precentral.net is "How do I get my Pre to sync with iTunes?"
In other words, they brought nothing new to the table. Their only reason to make the Pre was to help Palm continue to exist. Think about that. The iPhone entered a very different world than everything that came after it. The iPhone was created to solve some very real problems in this market. It changed everything about the smart phone industry as we knew it. The Pre solved no problems. It's core purpose was to be an anti-iPhone. Palm's only goal was continued existence. In that, at least, the Pre was successful. It held off the Reaper for another year or two. I have no sympathy for Palm and I can't wait to see them die the bad death they so richly deserve. They jettisoned everything that was positive about the company and traded it in for a few months of iPhone envy. They are the Psystar of the cell phone world and have no reason to live. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Why is Microsoft being compared with Palm? Microsoft isn't dumb enough to launch with just one carrier, MS has a lot of marketing/advertising power, and MS already has a slew of hardware and software vendors lined up.
Seems like AI is making a pretty big leap here.
Huge leap. MS also has a ton of money and the undying love of corporate IT-types everywhere.
I think Palm sowed the seeds of its own destruction years ago, when they began licensing Palm OS, and they pretty much sealed their fate when they lost control of it by spinning it off as PalmSource. Generally bad management through the years didn't help much either, and they basically cheapened and destroyed their own brand: one day they had the hottest gadget in the tech world, and a few years later no one even knew what they had. They may have had an opportunity to turn things around in the past, but by the time Rubinstein came on board, they were already pretty much doomed, and webOS could have been iPhone OS, and the Pre the iPhone, and the marketing perfect, and they still would have failed because they were already a failure in the public mind.
The Pre got so such publicity and promotion as THE iPhone killer, that whatever they had produced would have led to disappointment.
And the likelihood is Microsoft will follow Palm in failure, because copying Apple is the surest way to show you have nothing better to offer. And it won't be better, it will be the Zune of smartphones. And just how many times in the last 10 years have we heard that MS will make a success of it because it has big cash to spend?
Nokia? 'Maemo' OS to be merged with 'Moblin' OS to create 'MeeGo' OS, come on, it's for kids and the third world.
The webOS failed because it lacked a unique advantage.
Despite having checked out all the marketing literature and media the firm put out during launch,
I didn't really see what was so special with the device.
The answer of course is that it isn't an Apple device. There's a ton of people out there that have convinced themselves that Apple is evil. They want Apple-product killers. Every other day some device is being proposed as an iPod killer, or iPhone killer, or Mac killer, or .... That alone could have driven many sales. But perhaps you need more. Like Android. It's not an Apple product and it stands fairly well on its own. The Apple haters rejoice! Note that I'm also interested in Android as well.
Cool sig. Anway. I think windows phones might do well. Was just reading if you can write for xbox you can write for their new phones. But can someone PLEASE TELL ME WHY does some of microsofts new phone text go missing off the screen. Make it smaller. That's insane.
The text isn't exactly "missing". WP7S is based off of a hub ribbon that's many screens wider than...well, your screen. What that cut-off text is actually saying is that there's more information to the left or right if you scroll that direction. It kind of works on the "curiosity factor" we have. You kind of instinctively want to scroll over just to see if there is anything there.
The whole concept, to me at least, is a fairly interesting and new approach to displaying the massive amounts of information we have access to on our phones.
There's plenty of video walkthroughs of the OS in action that you can find on Gizmodo, Engadget, and YouTube. Check them out and hopefully you'll understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Because they don't know how to design or market.
In relation to the specific question Avidfcp asked above, your answer to him is typical Apple fanboy response. There's a reason for it and I explained it above. At least give him the benefit of information instead what essentially amounts to an "Apple rules, [insert company here] sux!" comment.
I'm guessing your comment is based on the fact that MS has actually innovated here with this concept which is genuinely different than anything else out there and that's well...alien to you (a competitor innovating part, not innovation in general).
Right. We've seen what MS does with its billions in the consumer segment. Sweet F all.
Judging by the garbage that rolls out of Redmond on a regular basis, you'd think all those billions have been set aside for coffee runs and new chairs.
MS' billions have resulted in a lot of Ballmerian "rounding error" excuses. MS is a big joke. Hopefully they won't turn Windows Mobile 7 Series whatever into another punchline.
The text isn't exactly "missing". WP7S is based off of a hub ribbon that's many screens wider than...well, your screen. What that cut-off text is actually saying is that there's more information to the left or right if you scroll that direction. It kind of works on the "curiosity factor" we have. You kind of instinctively want to scroll over just to see if there is anything there.
The whole concept, to me at least, is a fairly interesting and new approach to displaying the massive amounts of information we have access to on our phones.
There's plenty of video walkthroughs of the OS in action that you can find on Gizmodo, Engadget, and YouTube. Check them out and hopefully you'll understand.
Exactly. It "encourages" the user to swipe to the next part of the interface. I thought that by now everyone knew this?
Not sure if this has been mentioned but the key reason why the Pre failed is because Palm launched a phone that only works in the US and maybe 1 or 2 other countries. Even though this is now being addressed, it is too late because they already missed the window.
A smart phone that cannot roam internationally is just silly in today's world. Not to mention the amount of sales they could have gotten if the phone could be sold and used in other countries.
Alot of people give Apple alot of flack for partnering with AT&T in the US, but what else could they do? If they had gone with any other provider except for T-Mobile the iPhone will still be a US centric phone that can only be sold and used in the US.
The US is a big market and probably the most important individually but it is really nothing compared to the rest of the world combined. Palm really deserves their fate for doing something so stupid.
Comments
Well, I would say they spent a few billion making windows a great operating system this generation and making xbox 360 an amazing living room device that Apples ATV can't even compete with.
Even if you don't like Nokia they still have quite a stranglehold on the smartphone space and has enough money to keep their platform going, just like Microsoft.
Palm doesn't have the dough to keep fighting, and Palm made some SERIOUS errors that has brought about it's impending downfall
Nokia can barely choke their own chicken let alone strangle the market. In many other threads, we have previously noted that the Nokia definition of smartfone includes many models and millions of sales that are not remotely competitive with iPhone/Android/WebOS - lots of basic music phones with crappy browsers. If you only count N-series and E-series (weak) the Nokia share is much lower. Nokia are losing share in developed markets and are compensating in emerging markets like INdia but there is no likelihood that it can defend those positions without radically better product. They may well produce such kit but we haven't seen it yet.
X-box ecosystem is getting better but is still hardcore gamer/geek territory. The mass market has no interest in it. The Zune/Win7 phone may get some mass participation in the x-box ecosystem but until then it will always be niche and way behind iTunes in share/scale and power. Geeks will never move the market.
Let's remember that Symbian has been the number one selling smartphone operating system every year since the term smartphone was invented. It's sold around 300 million units to date. To say that Palm's failure to compete casts doubt over Nokia's potential to compete is utter nonsense when Nokia sells more smartphones than Apple and RIM combined!
The upcoming refresh of Symbian isn't revolutionary. But it does make app development a whole lot nicer and it does put it on a rough par with its competitors. Nokia are in a position where all they need to do is to stop people switching to a different manufacturer in order to win. That's a luxury Palm has never had.
And Microsoft, despite suffering declining marketshare at the moment, has the resources and services in place to compete. They have the music store, the app store, video, games, e-mail and every other piece of the jigsaw. Palm never had any of this and that's why they had to piggy-back onto iTunes.
Hey analysts, 95% of the world's population lives outside of the US. Maybe you should figure that into your analysis?
Cool sig. Anway. I think windows phones might do well. Was just reading if you can write for xbox you can write for their new phones.
But who writes for Xbox? Does it have a large developer community who are making things for xbox? I see that existing windows coders could migrate easily but I don't know what active base there is. If the platform is deemed to be a failure, developers will not write for it which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, It will be interesting to see how MS combat this.
They do have a great concept its just not executed well. Their phone is flawed and made like a toy so improving their materials and also that keyboard there is no way around it.
I'm not sure why this article has anything to do with Nokia. Palm is nothing compared to Nokia. Microsoft is nothing in mobile what Nokia is to this mobile industry. I do agree to some extend that the iPhone will be the top niche platform of the future or at least it has the potential to be that depends on Apple and what decisions they'll take down the road. Nokia with their overhauled Symbian platform will be right behind it. If anything Nokia and their platform have the most potential of any company because they make hardware and software on an open stable platform. They have made too many mistakes in the past though and dropped the ball too many times and although they have one of the most stable OS out there for mobile I dont think they have the vision to lead and thats why Nokia will be right behind Apple in smartphones, they still will own the lower segment.
Apple can only claim the topspot if they bring out more phones though, they will not be able to beat Nokia long term with only one phone. Apple needs about 3 to 4 form factors. They dont have to look too different from each other, they could actually keep the same screen size but what they need is a slide out qwerty keyboard one in portrait and one in landscape format to win this battle and they need to scratch the exclusive deals, iPhones need to be on every carrier shelf in the world.
Apple is the only company in this industry that has a must have product but they need to offer their customers more to keep them happy. Many see it as must have device because of their integrated iPod and iTunes/App store but a lot hold back on silly things like lack of multi-tasking, locked to a carrier, low cam pixels, no keyboard, can't teather, no file transfers over bluetooth, i dont even think you can sync wirelessly with your pc; all things Apple could answer with a quick update and change of sales strategy! Those silly shortcomings will only upset the customer and possibly have them bail out to another platform and that's where Nokia and others are gonna be waiting.
Nokia can barely choke their own chicken let alone strangle the market. In many other threads, we have previously noted that the Nokia definition of smartfone includes many models and millions of sales that are not remotely competitive with iPhone/Android/WebOS - lots of basic music phones with crappy browsers.
Every single one of those phones comes with a WebKit browser capable of displaying most Flash content. They support push e-mail, they can multitask, they can run native third party applications and all come with at least an ARM11 CPU. The only real missing feature is a touchscreen and even that isn't true on the best selling models (5800, 5230, etc.).
Obviously it's a little more complicated than that. I mean, if you can write for Mac OS X, you can write for iPhone, but there are still a ton of other considerations and inner-working intricacies that need to be taken into account.
It's part of the whole design. It's fine...I think, a fresh idea. I didn't like it at first, but it has grown on me. I love the WinPho7 UI and those Sergoe fonts are absolutely awesome!
Well it's true that if something says Friend and half an "s", it's Friends but why not make the font a tad smaller so it fits. I also like the UI and wil take a look at it when I can and it does look like you might be able to do some cool things on it.
With regard to the programming, the article really stated it would be super easy for xbox programmers to do very little to port their games.
I wonder what their app store will offer. In a few years, everyone will have an app store. Should be fun times. One dream would be to record 24 bit and have an amp sim fir a guitar and a portable studio with templates. Has anyone listen to band in a boxes latest stuff? Real samples now. Lady on the phone said the mac version is oming in a fee weeks at a significant discount. Sounds pretty good.
palm pummeling portends problems
nice writing, very nice.
*
...And it was a knock off.
When it was first released, everyone was publicly wondering why Apple didn't sue them. Even the Palm supporters were bracing for a legal battle. There was never going to be a defense of innocence, but a countersuit that featured their own patten portfolio. Palm publicly ripped off the iPhone OS and proceeded to rum Apple's nose in it by their iTunes actions. The whole card metaphor that people seem to love so much is a direct copy of Apple's Safari interface. Ooo... pinch to make pictures bigger. Wow... video editing implemented just like the iPhone. The PDK is only a thinly disguised iPhone app porting kit. The only apps in their catalogue worth having are iPhone ports. One of the most oft asked questions on Precentral.net is "How do I get my Pre to sync with iTunes?"
In other words, they brought nothing new to the table. Their only reason to make the Pre was to help Palm continue to exist. Think about that. The iPhone entered a very different world than everything that came after it. The iPhone was created to solve some very real problems in this market. It changed everything about the smart phone industry as we knew it. The Pre solved no problems. It's core purpose was to be an anti-iPhone. Palm's only goal was continued existence. In that, at least, the Pre was successful. It held off the Reaper for another year or two. I have no sympathy for Palm and I can't wait to see them die the bad death they so richly deserve. They jettisoned everything that was positive about the company and traded it in for a few months of iPhone envy. They are the Psystar of the cell phone world and have no reason to live. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Why is Microsoft being compared with Palm? Microsoft isn't dumb enough to launch with just one carrier, MS has a lot of marketing/advertising power, and MS already has a slew of hardware and software vendors lined up.
Seems like AI is making a pretty big leap here.
Huge leap. MS also has a ton of money and the undying love of corporate IT-types everywhere.
And the likelihood is Microsoft will follow Palm in failure, because copying Apple is the surest way to show you have nothing better to offer. And it won't be better, it will be the Zune of smartphones. And just how many times in the last 10 years have we heard that MS will make a success of it because it has big cash to spend?
Nokia? 'Maemo' OS to be merged with 'Moblin' OS to create 'MeeGo' OS, come on, it's for kids and the third world.
*
But can someone PLEASE TELL ME WHY does some of microsofts new phone text go missing off the screen. Make it smaller. That's insane.
Because they don't know how to design or market.
The webOS failed because it lacked a unique advantage.
Despite having checked out all the marketing literature and media the firm put out during launch,
I didn't really see what was so special with the device.
The answer of course is that it isn't an Apple device. There's a ton of people out there that have convinced themselves that Apple is evil. They want Apple-product killers. Every other day some device is being proposed as an iPod killer, or iPhone killer, or Mac killer, or .... That alone could have driven many sales. But perhaps you need more. Like Android. It's not an Apple product and it stands fairly well on its own. The Apple haters rejoice! Note that I'm also interested in Android as well.
Cool sig. Anway. I think windows phones might do well. Was just reading if you can write for xbox you can write for their new phones. But can someone PLEASE TELL ME WHY does some of microsofts new phone text go missing off the screen. Make it smaller. That's insane.
The text isn't exactly "missing". WP7S is based off of a hub ribbon that's many screens wider than...well, your screen. What that cut-off text is actually saying is that there's more information to the left or right if you scroll that direction. It kind of works on the "curiosity factor" we have. You kind of instinctively want to scroll over just to see if there is anything there.
The whole concept, to me at least, is a fairly interesting and new approach to displaying the massive amounts of information we have access to on our phones.
There's plenty of video walkthroughs of the OS in action that you can find on Gizmodo, Engadget, and YouTube. Check them out and hopefully you'll understand.
Because they don't know how to design or market.
In relation to the specific question Avidfcp asked above, your answer to him is typical Apple fanboy response. There's a reason for it and I explained it above. At least give him the benefit of information instead what essentially amounts to an "Apple rules, [insert company here] sux!" comment.
I'm guessing your comment is based on the fact that MS has actually innovated here with this concept which is genuinely different than anything else out there and that's well...alien to you (a competitor innovating part, not innovation in general).
But I do have a question: Who do you think will buy Palm, if anyone, and for what use?
Microsoft. For IP. For $750M.
See? That was simple.....
Right. We've seen what MS does with its billions in the consumer segment. Sweet F all.
Judging by the garbage that rolls out of Redmond on a regular basis, you'd think all those billions have been set aside for coffee runs and new chairs.
MS' billions have resulted in a lot of Ballmerian "rounding error" excuses. MS is a big joke. Hopefully they won't turn Windows Mobile 7 Series whatever into another punchline.
As for Nokia: crap floats. What else is new.
The text isn't exactly "missing". WP7S is based off of a hub ribbon that's many screens wider than...well, your screen. What that cut-off text is actually saying is that there's more information to the left or right if you scroll that direction. It kind of works on the "curiosity factor" we have. You kind of instinctively want to scroll over just to see if there is anything there.
The whole concept, to me at least, is a fairly interesting and new approach to displaying the massive amounts of information we have access to on our phones.
There's plenty of video walkthroughs of the OS in action that you can find on Gizmodo, Engadget, and YouTube. Check them out and hopefully you'll understand.
Exactly. It "encourages" the user to swipe to the next part of the interface. I thought that by now everyone knew this?
Please, please, please...
When Palm goes belly up, would they please release BeOS as open source?
Please?
Thanks, I didn't know they had it. Anyway, they couldn't have done much with it, as I for one haven't heard it even mentioned for many years now.
A smart phone that cannot roam internationally is just silly in today's world. Not to mention the amount of sales they could have gotten if the phone could be sold and used in other countries.
Alot of people give Apple alot of flack for partnering with AT&T in the US, but what else could they do? If they had gone with any other provider except for T-Mobile the iPhone will still be a US centric phone that can only be sold and used in the US.
The US is a big market and probably the most important individually but it is really nothing compared to the rest of the world combined. Palm really deserves their fate for doing something so stupid.