Price concerns keep Random House content from Apple iPad

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  • Reply 61 of 93
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    Edit: 'Daft' and 'Another harebrained idea' were two of my late fathers' favorite descriptions when describing me!



    I think our respective fathers had similar backgrounds and beliefs.



    Just remember: "Whatever doesn't kill you often makes you stronger." Which, I believe, is the current Marine Corps motto when they send squads out on EID hunts.
  • Reply 62 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wally626 View Post


    Sending a document to yourself, gives you a time stamp. But it is not like, sending something in to the Library of Congress is expensive, trademarks are expensive copyrights are not. Cheapest would just to have a Notary Public notify a statement attached to a copy of the book. $5 in VA



    I don't think the "sending yourself a copy in the mail" thing stands up in court very well. For a trademark, prepare to spend thousands of dollars unless you are a specialist in filing trademarks.



    The copyright process is pretty easy, but it's not a bulletproof legal victory, you couldn't just whip it out in court and expect a swift resolution in your favor.



    The absolute best legal strategy for demonstrating ownership is first use. It accounts for 99% of the validity in cases of creative works. Getting your content into a store (like iTunes/iBooks) and selling it - is probably most effective for protecting your work.
  • Reply 63 of 93
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,309member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    I think our respective fathers had similar backgrounds and beliefs.



    Just remember: "Whatever doesn't kill you often makes you stronger." Which, I believe, is the current Marine Corps motto when they send squads out on EID hunts.



    Quoting an insane existential nihilist who coined the phrase, "God is dead" before going into battle? Sounds about right... But how would a Marine square that with the philosophy of "Semper Fidelis" or "God, Country, Corps"? Kinda puts a wet blanket on the whole deal, no?
  • Reply 64 of 93
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    And somehow you think it's APPLE who doesn't want to sell stuff to the entire world all at once because they WANT to show how fantastic the US is and doesn't NEED money from anywhere BUT the US?



    ***OR***



    Could it POSSIBLY BE that the PUBLISHERS only have the ability to allow Apple to sell their titles in the US (at the present time) since many/most/all have signed exclusive contracts with publishers/distributers and or in-house international devisions who have the SOLE rights to sell titles in various countries in Europe and elsewhere?



    And just like with the iTunes music store this will SLOWLY change as the BOOK PUBLISHERS contracts (that were previously signed exclusives) expire, are renegotiated or otherwise modified to once again give the publisher the ability to permit international sales with the realization that the new international contracts are not NEARLY as VALUABLE to international publishers now that they have the 'digital sales - waiver' tacked on to the end. After all what is a company in Ireland paying a sizable fee for exclusive distribution rights in their company when any resident with iTunes can buy the same book from Apple instead.



    So... Simply allowing Apple to sell worldwide is not only a difficult thing to have happen OVERNIGHT it is also going to DEVALUE the money the publisher currently gets from selling exclusive international distribution contracts.



    Your response assumes that all books come out of the US. So people in other countries don't write books? No other country in the world publishes books? As it stands now, Apple does not even offer localized iBookstores for localized markets in other countries.
  • Reply 65 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    But Apple's approach would have the publishers set the prices paid by consumers -- something Random House executives are concerned could lead to considerably lower prices, and thus lower profits.



    Something certainly isn't clicking in my brain. Didn't the other publishers jump on the agency model because they felt that it would stop the devaluation of their products? I guess they felt that with Amazon selling books at $10, then customers will get used to that price and feel ripped off if they have to pay more. While Amazon might take a loss, other venues might not discount below wholesale like Amazon. That means other stores may not sell as many books - limiting the distribution of a title. How does Random House come up with the opposite idea about devaluation?
  • Reply 66 of 93
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by reliason View Post


    There is probably room for a publisher - but will the role of 'publisher' be profitable?



    You have made some thoughtful comments in this thread, thanks. To answer the question above, the short answer is we do not know. Everything is in such a state of flux, not just in the commercial execution of the medium, but the very nature of the medium itself as true 'multimedia' starts to emerge as an entirely new medium in its own right. As to publishing, I think it will survive as a viable business, but I suspect the days of the giant publishing houses is nearing the end. Instead we will see a proliferation of small low overhead publishers, that do not require multi-million dollar turnovers to exist in this new epoch. Ten or a dozen salaries, office overheads - a million dollar a year turnover and they would tick over nicely. They could be publishing books that only generate sales in the low thousands to be worth their while. This would be a good thing, a democratisation of the process, and the revenues generated by the industry would be spread around amongst far more people, providing both employment opportunities as well as scope for a much more diverse product range than the increasingly centralised gatekeepers of the publishing giants. Also more authors could make a living, at the expense of the rock-star earnings of the highly promoted few.



    I should point out that by disposition I am an optimist!
  • Reply 67 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    So now Apple runs the publishing world- I'd thought I'd heard it all until these comments on here today.



    Apple is going to be a distributor of eBooks, that is all. You hear but you don't really hear.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    You all assume everyone will own an iPad and this will be the only source to read from.



    I'd hazard a guess that no one hear believes that. Not even any of the loony fanboys. You see, it's you who's making the assumptions. I "definitely" don't assume any such thing, moaner.
  • Reply 68 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    And all this time I thought I was the only one.



    You're the only one like you, that's for sure, moaner.
  • Reply 69 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSwitcher View Post


    Thankfully there are easy enough ways to access the U.S. iTunes Store from anywhere else in the world. I myself have taught many people I know how to do it.



    Tell me?
  • Reply 70 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Quit wasting YOUR time.



    Yup..
  • Reply 71 of 93
    reliasonreliason Posts: 135member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allblue View Post


    I should point out that by disposition I am an optimist!



    I envy your optimism. The big content houses; be they music, movies, books, news, whatever; will not give up their position without a fight.



    Your assertion is the correct, evolutionary interpretation of what should happen. Smaller, nimbler, more saavy companies should be able to unseat the slow, ponderous behemoth - especially when the barrier to entry (the costs of the physical plant and distribution networks associated with big media) are reduced.



    But recent experience with the record industry and the behavior of the movie/video industry lead me to believe that there will be a LONG period of political and legal manuvering to protect their [becoming obsolete] businss models.
  • Reply 72 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Your response assumes that all books come out of the US. So people in other countries don't write books? No other country in the world publishes books? As it stands now, Apple does not even offer localized iBookstores for localized markets in other countries.



    Yeah my point is us in Europe and Australia etc. won't have the iBooks app. But then he went and flipped the whole thing into some sort of argument. It was a statement, not a stab at any company. Thus he wasted my time. And his own too.
  • Reply 73 of 93
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Why on earth are you even in this discussion topic? You said it yourself, if you live outside the US then iBooks (and as a result) iBook discussions are out of the question. The point is it's the truth!



    So to get this all straightened out...



    - You realize that Apple is little to no say about selling into International Markets.



    - You realize that Apple is none the less interested in making this happen



    And you still seemed PO'd that this story exists... should AI simply not post news on Apple events that aren't available worldwide?



    Seriously, what are you talking about?



    All i posted was this:







    Please, somebody help me out here? Spam? Point the way. Some perspective, please!
  • Reply 74 of 93
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by reliason View Post


    I envy your optimism. The big content houses; be they music, movies, books, news, whatever; will not give up their position without a fight.



    Your assertion is the correct, evolutionary interpretation of what should happen. Smaller, nimbler, more saavy companies should be able to unseat the slow, ponderous behemoth - especially when the barrier to entry (the costs of the physical plant and distribution networks associated with big media) are reduced.



    But recent experience with the record industry and the behavior of the movie/video industry lead me to believe that there will be a LONG period of political and legal manuvering to protect their [becoming obsolete] businss models.



    I think that the music and movie cartels have a bigger advantage in that there is greater value in their back catalogues. "Abbey Road" and "The Magnificent Seven" probably have more current and future commercial potential than say "Catch 22'. The big publishers will still have a vice-like grip on the physical book market - those 20 'bestsellers' stuck an a rack in airport retail outlets generate sales almost by default, and there is no way for a small independent publisher to break into that cosy arrangement. But here we are talking about the new, the e-book and that field is wide open. The one hindrance to this brave new world I could foresee if is e-distribution becomes too centralised, where iBooks takes on the nature of the App Store - 150,000 titles so how do you know which one to choose?
  • Reply 75 of 93
    via ebook reader app from barnes and noble and amazon.
  • Reply 76 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikefrompluto View Post


    The iPad and other devices like it spell the end of the line for the big publishing houses and they know it.



    Authors can now self publish and actually sell a book for money on the iBookstore. What use is a publisher?



    Because some people don't want to buy self-published books as they tend not to be well proof-read, edited, and a whole assortment of polishing that goes on in the professional publishing world. Publishers do more than simply slap glue on to keep the pages together.
  • Reply 77 of 93
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm not so sure I buy Random House's reasoning. This deal is clearly better for them and the market than what Amazon offered.



    Not really. Because Amazon's old game was to buy the 'books' at wholesale prices, which Random House et al set, and then could over or under it all they wanted., but if the books didn't sell, oh well.



    So Random House could say that ebooks of the new Grisham novel are $15 a piece and Amazon paid that. Then sold the books as a loss leader to lure folks to the site to buy the Kindle hardware, other books, movies etc.



    Under an agency model, Random House would have to set the sales price at $21 to make that much and who is going to buy an ebook at that amount. Particularly since the perception is that there's no real cost to making ebooks so no reason for them to be that high.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    At least someone has the balls to tell Apple that their way isn't what some companies want.



    Apple isn't making them do anything. It's only the blogs that are acting that way. Random House has every right to say no. and apparently has.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I fully expect Apple to offer the same gift giving option for books as is now offered for songs and apps, so mommy and daddy will be able to keep their little dependents on a short leash with the textbooks...



    why do you need gift giving when parental controls will likely be on the ipad.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    To copyright something




    you write it. At least in the US. Every post you've written on this or any other board is already copyrighted the moment you wrote it. And you don't even have to put the copyright symbol on it anymore



    Quote:

    like that all you have to do is send it via registered post in a sealed padded envelope to yourself,



    NO, NO, NO. Please hand back your law degree cause its seriously no good.



    Mailing it to yourself means nothing. Copyright registration via the LOC is the requirement for getting any statutory damages if someone steals your stuff. Actual damages will be awarded if you can prove that gross theft (being more than merely the base idea) occurred, generally including proof that the person had access, and that there were damages incurred.

    Mailing doesn't even work as prove of when you wrote it cause you can steam that baby open, slip your stuff inside and reseal it.



    More information about this can be found at US Copyright Office.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wally626 View Post


    and have a couple of hard copies made to send in for Copyright registration.



    It may not be required for one to make a hard copy of an ebook to register it. So check that before you go to the bother.
  • Reply 78 of 93
    techstudtechstud Posts: 124member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    I'd hazard a guess that no one hear believes that. Not even any of the loony fanboys. You see, it's you who's making the assumptions. I "definitely" don't assume any such thing, moaner.



    That's here Ireland not hear.

    Can you hear me now?
  • Reply 79 of 93
    doroteadorotea Posts: 323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikefrompluto View Post


    The iPad and other devices like it spell the end of the line for the big publishing houses and they know it.



    Authors can now self publish and actually sell a book for money on the iBookstore. What use is a publisher?



    While I have an iPad on pre-order, reading books on it are not high on the list. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who read books and take pleasure in reading a physical book.
  • Reply 80 of 93
    techstudtechstud Posts: 124member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    While I have an iPad on pre-order, reading books on it are not high on the list. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who read books and take pleasure in reading a physical book.



    Exactly- just like an actual performance will never be supplanted by a movie, a live concert by a CD, etc. etc. etc.
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