With the Pwn2Own hacking contest coming up at Vancouver's CanSecWest security conference later this month, Italian computer security blog OneITSecurity took some time to interview Charlie Miller. Miller, in case you're not familiar, is a security expert who has won Pwn2Own two years running by hacking Apple's Safari browser with incredible speed. Safari isn't the only target -- this year, all major browsers and a selection of mobile operating systems will serve as Pwn2Own challenges - but it's fair to say that Miller knows a thing or two about keeping your browser secure.
Here are the highlights from Miller's interview:
He thinks Windows 7 will prove more secure than OS X Snow Leopard this year, in part because it doesn't have Java and Flash enabled by default. Windows' full ASLR (address space layout randomization) also gives it a security advantage.
When asked what he thought would make the safest OS and browser combo, he opted for Chrome or IE8 on Windows 7, with no Flash installed, although "there probably isn't enough difference between the browsers to get worked up about."
For my money, the juiciest quote from the interview was "The main thing is not to install Flash!"
On the mobile side, Miller guessed that the iPhone 3GS would be more easily exploitable than the Motorola Droid, mainly because the iPhone's been around longer, and has been subjected to more extensive security research.
You can check out Miller's full answers (in English or Italian!) at OneITSecurity.
So that's 20% in the way that Apple measures it? Did I get that right? In MS world you measure % usage over all 4 cores but in Apple land they use 1 core as the benchmark so you can get a figure like 125% CPU usage.
Excuse my ignorance.
Cheers
fl
You're excused. What you don't understand is buy using hardware acceleration the load is taken off the CPU. Think of it this way, if this approach is used for 3D gaming world where massive resources are needed do you not believe it would take a load of the CPU for something like Flash?
Its all about resource management. Even if you take a lower end Nvidia card the GT 220 you are talking about a card that has a processor clock speed of 1360mhz and a Graphics clock speed of 625mhz.
Todays GPU's are extremely fast and when the correct API's are accessed can take the load off the CPU.
iIdiot is back. Yet another alias for the ignore list. Reported. I hope you used an anon vpn so you have a different IP this time.
The irony is that he thought to prove that by going to the other extreme on an Apple-based forum he would ingratiate himself to it's members. I wonder if he's realized that objectivity is the key or if he's just scratching his head right now
The irony is that he thought to prove that by going to the other extreme on an Apple-based forum he would ingratiate himself to it's members. I wonder if he's realized that objectivity is the key or if he's just scratching his head right now
Yes isn't that the dream of eveyrone to be the the good graces of AI members. I mean damn what more is there to reach for after that goal has been met.
Funny story. I casually enabled Flash on Chrome on windows today.
After a while, my Visual studio starts slowing down and eventually stopped responding when I open a new project.
So I checked the task manager, apparently Chrome's using 90% of the CPU, then I check chrome's task manager, apparently Flash is using 80 something % of chrome's resource, just because of one Youtube video... really?
How do people on windows stand flash... really. Or you are just more used to your computer not responding?
Yes isn't that the dream of eveyrone to be the the good graces of AI members. I mean damn what more is there to reach for after that goal has been met.
Funny story. I casually enabled Flash on Chrome on windows today.
After a while, my Visual studio starts slowing down and eventually stopped responding when I open a new project.
So I checked the task manager, apparently Chrome's using 90% of the CPU, then I check chrome's task manager, apparently Flash is using 80 something % of chrome's resource, just because of one Youtube video... really?
How do people on windows stand flash... really. Or you are just more used to your computer not responding?
Thats hard to believe. I would have to see a snapshot of your Task Manager to even remotely believe Flash was using 80% CPU.
... The fact is Flash 10.1 addresses several issues so clearly Adobe and Flash are not going anywhere.
This is an OSX issue at this point and if Apple decides not to work with Adobe to resolve the issue then its simply nothing more then an issue Apple wants to create.
a) Declaring the success of Flash 10.1 on Mac OS X is premature, and largely irrelevant. (see (c) below)
b) There you go again with this nonsense that Flash sucking is somehow Apple's fault. It's not. It's Adobe's fault entirely. Also, this claim that it is somehow Apple's fault is contradicted by your initial assertion that Flash 10.1 performance on the Mac will be so wonderful that we will all scorn HTML5. You can't logically have it both ways.
c) Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic, has become largely irrelevant to the fate of Flash. Mobile platforms are what will bring about the rapid demise of Flash. No Flash on iPhone, no Flash on iPad, no actual real Flash (as opposed to Flash light) anywhere in significant numbers. The fact is that in the fastest growing segment of computing, content delivery and advertising, if you are using Flash, you are and will be shut out. However, if you go with HTML5, you get to play everywhere. Again, this is why Windows market share (your favorite card) is also entirely irrelevant, and it's also why whether users are clamoring for it (another card you have tried to play) is irrelevant. This will be driven entirely by content providers and has nothing at all to do with performance, but everything to do with not wanting to be shut out of entire markets. Even the porn sites are probably looking at switching to HTML5 right now so as not to be shut out of the iPad audience. Will Flash disappear completely overnight? No, but it will very shortly find itself relegated to the seldom visited backwaters of the Internet.
a) Declaring the success of Flash 10.1 on Mac OS X is premature, and largely irrelevant. (see (c) below)
b) There you go again with this nonsense that Flash sucking is somehow Apple's fault. It's not. It's Adobe's fault entirely. Also, this claim that it is somehow Apple's fault is contradicted by your initial assertion that Flash 10.1 performance on the Mac will be so wonderful that we will all scorn HTML5. You can't logically have it both ways.
c) Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic, has become largely irrelevant to the fate of Flash. Mobile platforms are what will bring about the rapid demise of Flash. No Flash on iPhone, no Flash on iPad, no actual real Flash (as opposed to Flash light) anywhere in significant numbers. The fact is that in the fastest growing segment of computing, content delivery and advertising, if you are using Flash, you are and will be shut out. However, if you go with HTML5, you get to play everywhere. Again, this is why Windows market share (your favorite card) is also entirely irrelevant, and it's also why whether users are clamoring for it (another card you have tried to play) is irrelevant. This will be driven entirely by content providers and has nothing at all to do with performance, but everything to do with not wanting to be shut out of entire markets. Even the porn sites are probably looking at switching to HTML5 right now so as not to be shut out of the iPad audience. Will Flash disappear completely overnight? No, but it will very shortly find itself relegated to the seldom visited backwaters of the Internet.
"Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic"
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
Snapshots can be faked. You might want to come over and do a diagnostic of my machine.
I am not sure how the task manager in Chrome reads, but it's saying 8x% for Flash, and Chrome's using 90% in the windows task manager.
Probably Michael Jackson's simply too epic for my computer
Most studies show that Chrome has a harder time wth HTML5 then it does with Flash. In some cases studies have show that the new version of Flash uses up to 58% less resources then HTML5.
However most of this is simply the fact that Chrome is still very new.
"Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic"
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
See point (b) above.
And, seriously, this bit about, "this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue (sic) Steve Jobs wants to control content," is just ridiculously absurd. But, I guess when you don't have an actual argument, reversion to typical troll nonsense is inevitable.
You may also wish to consult point (c) above; you are still fighting the last war, the ship has sailed and Flash was left in port.
Well Apple should look at itself when it comes to performance. Maybe flash on a Mac is not performing well, but I can tell you Itunes make my quad core vista PC halts for 5 secs whenever I start it. The same happens with Apple website when I go there with IE. In fact Apple website is by far the slowest to load site I have never seen on the web. Even Disney.com full flash site is much faster to load. Apple quicktime also takes forever to load when I start a .mov file.
I hope Itunes perform better on Mac OS, because on windows, what a piece of junk. Then again, I just received an 11k tax return, maybe now I can afford to pay 2 times the price for a Mac. An I7 Imac would be nice.
Speaking of Itune, I bought a few TV episodes on my AppleTV and the "sync" with Itune “moved” them on my PC. Is there any way I could keep a copy of those shows on my AppleTV? Now I need to open my PC and Itune if I want to watch it again. Not to mention I would rather have a backup copy in the AppleTV.
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
Serious question: Do vendors of other graphic intensive programs have access to these APIs or is Flash somehow unique that it needs graphic acceleration?
Comments
I do not believe you are as intelligent as the one and only Charlie Miller:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/03...o-install-fla/
Reigning Pwn2Own champion:
"The main thing is not to install Flash!"
With the Pwn2Own hacking contest coming up at Vancouver's CanSecWest security conference later this month, Italian computer security blog OneITSecurity took some time to interview Charlie Miller. Miller, in case you're not familiar, is a security expert who has won Pwn2Own two years running by hacking Apple's Safari browser with incredible speed. Safari isn't the only target -- this year, all major browsers and a selection of mobile operating systems will serve as Pwn2Own challenges - but it's fair to say that Miller knows a thing or two about keeping your browser secure.
Here are the highlights from Miller's interview:
He thinks Windows 7 will prove more secure than OS X Snow Leopard this year, in part because it doesn't have Java and Flash enabled by default. Windows' full ASLR (address space layout randomization) also gives it a security advantage.
When asked what he thought would make the safest OS and browser combo, he opted for Chrome or IE8 on Windows 7, with no Flash installed, although "there probably isn't enough difference between the browsers to get worked up about."
For my money, the juiciest quote from the interview was "The main thing is not to install Flash!"
On the mobile side, Miller guessed that the iPhone 3GS would be more easily exploitable than the Motorola Droid, mainly because the iPhone's been around longer, and has been subjected to more extensive security research.
You can check out Miller's full answers (in English or Italian!) at OneITSecurity.
http://www.oneitsecurity.it/01/03/20...iller-pwn2own/
***BTW: Windows 7 64-bit and IE8 fell first and took the home-run prize... although the iPhone also got pwned.
Good try but he also hacked not only Safari, OSX but he also hacked the iPhone OS. Was Flash installed on the iPhone OS. Think about that one.
So that's 20% in the way that Apple measures it? Did I get that right? In MS world you measure % usage over all 4 cores but in Apple land they use 1 core as the benchmark so you can get a figure like 125% CPU usage.
Excuse my ignorance.
Cheers
fl
You're excused. What you don't understand is buy using hardware acceleration the load is taken off the CPU. Think of it this way, if this approach is used for 3D gaming world where massive resources are needed do you not believe it would take a load of the CPU for something like Flash?
Its all about resource management. Even if you take a lower end Nvidia card the GT 220 you are talking about a card that has a processor clock speed of 1360mhz and a Graphics clock speed of 625mhz.
Todays GPU's are extremely fast and when the correct API's are accessed can take the load off the CPU.
Thats how it works.
Fun fact.
"China without Google is like United States without Baidu."
Nobody cares.
He's wrong about the comparison, but yes, people in China do care that Google is allowed be open.
As soon as the iPad hits the market, Flash is going bye bye.
Adobe is lazy.
iIdiot is back. Yet another alias for the ignore list. Reported. I hope you used an anon vpn so you have a different IP this time.
iIdiot is back. Yet another alias for the ignore list. Reported. I hope you used an anon vpn so you have a different IP this time.
The irony is that he thought to prove that by going to the other extreme on an Apple-based forum he would ingratiate himself to it's members. I wonder if he's realized that objectivity is the key or if he's just scratching his head right now
The irony is that he thought to prove that by going to the other extreme on an Apple-based forum he would ingratiate himself to it's members. I wonder if he's realized that objectivity is the key or if he's just scratching his head right now
Yes isn't that the dream of eveyrone to be the the good graces of AI members. I mean damn what more is there to reach for after that goal has been met.
After a while, my Visual studio starts slowing down and eventually stopped responding when I open a new project.
So I checked the task manager, apparently Chrome's using 90% of the CPU, then I check chrome's task manager, apparently Flash is using 80 something % of chrome's resource, just because of one Youtube video... really?
How do people on windows stand flash... really. Or you are just more used to your computer not responding?
Yes isn't that the dream of eveyrone to be the the good graces of AI members. I mean damn what more is there to reach for after that goal has been met.
NOw that's funny. It''s what we all dream for!
Funny story. I casually enabled Flash on Chrome on windows today.
After a while, my Visual studio starts slowing down and eventually stopped responding when I open a new project.
So I checked the task manager, apparently Chrome's using 90% of the CPU, then I check chrome's task manager, apparently Flash is using 80 something % of chrome's resource, just because of one Youtube video... really?
How do people on windows stand flash... really. Or you are just more used to your computer not responding?
Thats hard to believe. I would have to see a snapshot of your Task Manager to even remotely believe Flash was using 80% CPU.
Thats hard to believe. I would have to see a snapshot of your Task Manager to even remotely believe Flash was using 80% CPU.
Snapshots can be faked. You might want to come over and do a diagnostic of my machine.
I am not sure how the task manager in Chrome reads, but it's saying 8x% for Flash, and Chrome's using 90% in the windows task manager.
Probably Michael Jackson's simply too epic for my computer
... The fact is Flash 10.1 addresses several issues so clearly Adobe and Flash are not going anywhere.
This is an OSX issue at this point and if Apple decides not to work with Adobe to resolve the issue then its simply nothing more then an issue Apple wants to create.
a) Declaring the success of Flash 10.1 on Mac OS X is premature, and largely irrelevant. (see (c) below)
b) There you go again with this nonsense that Flash sucking is somehow Apple's fault. It's not. It's Adobe's fault entirely. Also, this claim that it is somehow Apple's fault is contradicted by your initial assertion that Flash 10.1 performance on the Mac will be so wonderful that we will all scorn HTML5. You can't logically have it both ways.
c) Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic, has become largely irrelevant to the fate of Flash. Mobile platforms are what will bring about the rapid demise of Flash. No Flash on iPhone, no Flash on iPad, no actual real Flash (as opposed to Flash light) anywhere in significant numbers. The fact is that in the fastest growing segment of computing, content delivery and advertising, if you are using Flash, you are and will be shut out. However, if you go with HTML5, you get to play everywhere. Again, this is why Windows market share (your favorite card) is also entirely irrelevant, and it's also why whether users are clamoring for it (another card you have tried to play) is irrelevant. This will be driven entirely by content providers and has nothing at all to do with performance, but everything to do with not wanting to be shut out of entire markets. Even the porn sites are probably looking at switching to HTML5 right now so as not to be shut out of the iPad audience. Will Flash disappear completely overnight? No, but it will very shortly find itself relegated to the seldom visited backwaters of the Internet.
a) Declaring the success of Flash 10.1 on Mac OS X is premature, and largely irrelevant. (see (c) below)
b) There you go again with this nonsense that Flash sucking is somehow Apple's fault. It's not. It's Adobe's fault entirely. Also, this claim that it is somehow Apple's fault is contradicted by your initial assertion that Flash 10.1 performance on the Mac will be so wonderful that we will all scorn HTML5. You can't logically have it both ways.
c) Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic, has become largely irrelevant to the fate of Flash. Mobile platforms are what will bring about the rapid demise of Flash. No Flash on iPhone, no Flash on iPad, no actual real Flash (as opposed to Flash light) anywhere in significant numbers. The fact is that in the fastest growing segment of computing, content delivery and advertising, if you are using Flash, you are and will be shut out. However, if you go with HTML5, you get to play everywhere. Again, this is why Windows market share (your favorite card) is also entirely irrelevant, and it's also why whether users are clamoring for it (another card you have tried to play) is irrelevant. This will be driven entirely by content providers and has nothing at all to do with performance, but everything to do with not wanting to be shut out of entire markets. Even the porn sites are probably looking at switching to HTML5 right now so as not to be shut out of the iPad audience. Will Flash disappear completely overnight? No, but it will very shortly find itself relegated to the seldom visited backwaters of the Internet.
"Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic"
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
Snapshots can be faked. You might want to come over and do a diagnostic of my machine.
I am not sure how the task manager in Chrome reads, but it's saying 8x% for Flash, and Chrome's using 90% in the windows task manager.
Probably Michael Jackson's simply too epic for my computer
Most studies show that Chrome has a harder time wth HTML5 then it does with Flash. In some cases studies have show that the new version of Flash uses up to 58% less resources then HTML5.
However most of this is simply the fact that Chrome is still very new.
"Flash performance on Mac OS X, while highly problematic"
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
See point (b) above.
And, seriously, this bit about, "this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue (sic) Steve Jobs wants to control content," is just ridiculously absurd. But, I guess when you don't have an actual argument, reversion to typical troll nonsense is inevitable.
You may also wish to consult point (c) above; you are still fighting the last war, the ship has sailed and Flash was left in port.
I hope Itunes perform better on Mac OS, because on windows, what a piece of junk. Then again, I just received an 11k tax return, maybe now I can afford to pay 2 times the price for a Mac. An I7 Imac would be nice.
Speaking of Itune, I bought a few TV episodes on my AppleTV and the "sync" with Itune “moved” them on my PC. Is there any way I could keep a copy of those shows on my AppleTV? Now I need to open my PC and Itune if I want to watch it again. Not to mention I would rather have a backup copy in the AppleTV.
Yes because of Apple not Adobe. You can't get this through you head. Apple needs to give Adobe the information they need to access the correct API's so they can invoke hardware acceleration in OSX. You can debate this in your tiny head all you want but you are wrong, this is an Apple created issue at this point becasue Steve Jobs wants to control content.
Serious question: Do vendors of other graphic intensive programs have access to these APIs or is Flash somehow unique that it needs graphic acceleration?