Sorry thought this part of my post loosely addressed that: "(and I read all about it every year)"
My question is why do the media (and commenters) not address these questions about the competition, whose absence make the results meaningless?
Sorry I missed your point the first time. They did have people trying hacks against Chrome but I don't think the results are in yet foir those attempts or they will be done tomorrow. I know that they did not even include Ubuntu this year because it was not compromised the last 3 years.......
Checkout the bottom of the article here for the latest updates and the rest of the lineup....
no - it means that charlie miller was well prepared. IIRC - in the past he had found vulnerabilities in open source contributions to the mac os and didn't report them so he could get himself a macbook air.
Not true.... yes he was prepared to hack the Mac BUT the last 2 years that he hacked the Mac was through an exploit he reported to Apple that went unpatched. Now he does not want to just report exploits to the software vendors but teach/instruct them on how to do their own exploit findings...
For this hack to work in the real world, you would need to physically click a link to the malicious site somehow (in an email maybe, or a link via IM or whatever). Social Engineering. It relies on the ignorance of the computer user to do the hacker's job for him, because he can't do it himself.
Can your Mac get hacked remotely? No.
Will the hacker drive to your house and personally point your web browser to his site to infect your Mac? Not likely.
Ha ha ha ha ha, seriously dude grow up. Real users in the real world click on "links" as part of the "internet experience", can that possible happen????? are you serious??? (how do you think PC users get hacked???) . Its not just PC that get hacked or are at risk, its just a % game.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
I cannot believe that you are labelling users as ignorant if they get exploited, lame, last i checked Apple did not send out manual of approved sites to visit, and as people like yourself keep telling users how wonderful and secure Os X /macs are, and now mac do not get viruses etc, some poor chump out there that is not computer literate is going to get hacked/exploited cause of the BS fanboys dribble, and this so called chump gets labelled as ignorant.. ppffffft!
No matter what system you are on, you have to take security seriously. And be vigilant at all times.
job security of windows certified technicians of course.
LOL so you know this first hand? I am on a committee evaluating iPhone for our corporate environment. We are also directed by a SVP to evaluate the iPad. No business reason was given just the the SVP thought it was "cool" so we should see if we can find a place for the hardware in our business space......... I would LOVE to be able to have a MBP for my work laptop. I would LOVE to have the company pay for my iphone to use at work!!!
Apple does not have the business needs in place to make their product work in a eneterprise enviroment....... they make no bones about this fact either....they target their products as "entertainment devices". their target audience in the average home user....
Not true.... yes he was prepared to hack the Mac BUT the last 2 years that he hacked the Mac was through an exploit he reported to Apple that went unpatched. Now he does not want to just report exploits to the software vendors but teach/instruct them on how to do their own exploit findings...
maybe this year was different, but i remember his first spectacular takeover was orchestrated through a bug in webkit, and only worked after the organizers relaxed the rules. my point was that it wasn't a hack written on the spot, but well prepared. that's why it took him under two minutes.
and yes, apple should not be dragging their heels when it comes to plugging security holes.
but you would have to agree that the sensational headlines of a hacked mac are just as meaningless as 'the windows is more secure if you run win7 and IE8/9' argument, as long as there are still hundreds of thousands of IE6 users running on unpatched XP boxes out there.
maybe this year was different, but i remember his first spectacular takeover was orchestrated through a bug in webkit, and only worked after the organizers relaxed the rules. my point was that it wasn't a hack written on the spot, but well prepared. that's why it took him under two minutes.
and yes, apple should not be dragging their heels when it comes to plugging security holes.
but you would have to agree that the sensational headlines of a hacked mac are just as meaningless as 'the windows is more secure if you run win7 and IE8/9' argument, as long as there are still hundreds of thousands of IE6 users running on unpatched XP boxes out there.
You do have a point about the Mac getting more headlines......
I will give you that concession but I think its is also a "shock value" headline as well.... the assumption being that Macs are always more secure than Windows...when any system can get hacked.......
For this hack to work in the real world, you would need to physically click a link to the malicious site somehow (in an email maybe, or a link via IM or whatever). Social Engineering. It relies on the ignorance of the computer user to do the hacker's job for him, because he can't do it himself.
Can your Mac get hacked remotely? No.
Will the hacker drive to your house and personally point your web browser to his site to infect your Mac? Not likely.
Lets stop pretending you actually understand what you are typing. You have no clue what IT Security even involves.
If he didn't have access to the machine it was a remote access hack. There is simply no way you can debate that fact.
Quadra in one way you are correct this isnt that big of a deal because the simple fact is there isnt anything out there that can't be hacked.
Ha ha ha ha ha, seriously dude grow up. Real users in the real world click on "links" as part of the "internet experience", can that possible happen????? are you serious??? (how do you think PC users get hacked???) . Its not just PC that get hacked or are at risk, its just a % game.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
I cannot believe that you are labelling users as ignorant if they get exploited, lame, last i checked Apple did not send out manual of approved sites to visit, and as people like yourself keep telling users how wonderful and secure Os X /macs are, and now mac do not get viruses etc, some poor chump out there that is not computer literate is going to get hacked/exploited cause of the BS fanboys dribble, and this so called chump gets labelled as ignorant.. ppffffft!
No matter what system you are on, you have to take security seriously. And be vigilant at all times.
Quadra is safe because he doesn't actually do any real work. The entire time I have been here the best I can figure out is the guy loves his iPhone and the most technical thing he does is iWorks.com.
I mean I guess someone could hack his system and steal his Steve Jobs screen saver.
All these hacks need is just 1 click by an ignorant oblivious user to be raped by malicious code. Having the biggest marketshare Windows is under constant attack by hackers. Apple has the luxury of being a smaller premium market and less attacks are made against the user base simply because of that.
OS X isn't some fortress of impenetrability, so you can kill that thinking off. Is it safer to use OS X? Yes it is, but it's not more secure, OS X users are vulnerable as well.
You do have a point about the Mac getting more headlines......
I will give you that concession but I think its is also a "shock value" headline as well.... the assumption being that Macs are always more secure than Windows...when any system can get hacked.......
I'll say! Just do a google for "pwn2own first" and see what comes up.
Take note; this is the list from CanSecWest of everything that fell on day 1
Here are the results, in order:
\t1.\tPWNED! Vincenzo Iozzo and Ralf Philipp Weinmann - iPhone
\t2.\tPWNED! Charlie Miller - Safari
\t3.\tNils - Safari (prize claimed)
\t4.\tPWNED! Peter Vreugdenhil - Internet Explorer 8
\t5.\tMemACCT - Internet Explorer 8 (prize claimed)
And the reason they are in that counting order is because that is the order that was pulled from the drawing. (the iPhone hacking guys went first. Charlie Miller went second, etc)
But my point is that, in the media, it gets played-up like the iPhone was the first thing down because it was the weakest thing out there.
(that may actually be the case; but that's not why it was the first thing to fall )
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
We heard the same story after every pwn2own circus act. Macs are doing better in sales, but the natural limits of the Premium end of the market puts a stopper on Macs spreading too far, too fast. We can start with the $1000 entry-fee, unless we're talking Mac Minis. Windows will always command the lion's share of the consumer market, due in part to Microsoft whoring out their OS to all takers. Mac users are no more vulnerable now than they were five years ago. You can still turn off every single security feature in OS X (save for what your router provides) and surf even questionable sites with impunity.
That massive wave of Mac malware just won't happen. Now that Apple is gradually transitioning to the iPad platform (which is closer to a Mac than any other Apple handheld), there will be even less focus on Macs. By controlling the Premium end Apple has once and for all shielded itself from the nastiness that affects the rest of the computer-using population, regardless of how good Unix is. In fact, using the same logic that Windows-sufferers use (low market share), the more popular Windows is, the better Macs will fare when it comes to malware.
You can't use the security via obscurity argument and the "Macs are doing better in sales" argument at the same time. Macs will never, ever enjoy strong enough sales to deflect hackers' attention from Windows - which, by the way, is using another argument often employed by Windows-sufferers: it isn't worth hackers' time to target OS X. Even Apple's record Mac sales are nothing compared to all the junkboxes sold with Windows. Hey, fair enough. We're quite comfortable and sitting quite pretty with between 50-70 million OS X users. We don't need more to keep enjoying OS X and Macs, and besides, it doesn't look like waves upon waves of average users are about to miraculously enter into higher income brackets anytime soon, no matter hoe many more consumers are buying Macs in a recession. Either way, Mac users win.
Quadra is safe because he doesn't actually do any real work. The entire time I have been here the best I can figure out is the guy loves his iPhone and the most technical thing he does is iWorks.com.
I mean I guess someone could hack his system and steal his Steve Jobs screen saver.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Many people do "real work" in Numbers (or Excel) or iWork (Pages, for example.) Entire books are written with word processors. 200+ page PhD dissertations are written with Pages. Or Word. Or even OpenOffice.
Nor am i sure what any of this has to do with OS security.
I'm safe because I use a platform that is well-designed and doesn't run 99.99999% of malware out there. Nor will it ever come close to doing so.
Anyway, if a hacker has physical access to the machine, all bets are off.
As soon as one of these exploits happens without physical access to the machine, or with physical access to a properly secured machine, I'll be impressed.
LOL so you know this first hand? I am on a committee evaluating iPhone for our corporate environment. We are also directed by a SVP to evaluate the iPad. No business reason was given just the the SVP thought it was "cool" so we should see if we can find a place for the hardware in our business space......... I would LOVE to be able to have a MBP for my work laptop. I would LOVE to have the company pay for my iphone to use at work!!!
Apple does not have the business needs in place to make their product work in a eneterprise enviroment....... they make no bones about this fact either....they target their products as "entertainment devices". their target audience in the average home user....
you are absolutely right about apple going after the home market and more or less ignoring the enterprise. i have however experienced the sneering drivel of ignorant IT departments that have dismissed macs as toys for even the most basic business tasks for decades.
kudos for your company for having actually explored the possibility, but i'm sure you have run into the type of people i'm talking about. it's entirely possible that macs don't fit into certain environments primarily because past IT managers have locked the entire infrastructure into microsoft's 'solutions' that have been hobbled to not fully support other platforms. just compare entourage to outlook.
I think there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Please do a little research. I know there is not a lot of info available for this year's contest. There is no blow by blow account like an Apple Keynote, but this is sort of how it works:.
Okay perhaps there is but what I stated in MY post while likely NOT 100% accurate is for the most part true... Perhaps with a bit of over zealous comments thrown in here or there.
Are you saying Apple is NOT a HUGE target and extra attention is often devoted to hacking them to simply put them in their place? I don't think this is a big secret... The hacker community want's to prove their point that NO SYSTEM IS SAFE and any 'preconceived notion that Macs were SAFTER is far from the truth and they are 100% focused on reminding the public year after year.
*I* get it! And I think **MOST OF US** get it. Apple is NOT bullet proof sure, fine! I'd still pick OS X if I were forced to chose OSX, Windows or Linux as my primary system...
It it also not true that hacking a Microsoft product is not consider as great a feat as hacking an Apple branded product? The press simply got bored of reporting every instance a Microsoft system was compromised. It would be like reporting ever instance someone was stung by a bee in the middle of summer... Simply NOT news worthy...
It is it just coincidence that Apple seems to be the BIG NEWS year after year when this conference kicks off and little press is ever made of hackers defeating Microsoft products year after year. Perhaps I'm looking at this fact thru some rose colored glasses since I don't even attempt to claim I visit a ton of Windows centric news sites. And even IF windows exploits DID make the normal/traditional news sites I'd likely skip it over (or found it buried on page 32) because its simply not real news and lets face it in todays work if Steve farts it would likely make page 2 at the minimum and certainly front page on a slower news day.
Lastly the other main point I was getting across what the lack DESPITE this CLEARLY FALLIBLE and QUICKLY HACKABLE nature of OS X (as demonstrated year after year - something that I'm not disputing) still to this day why has nothing has ever come of it in the form on a REAL WORLD virus or worm, trojan, etc?
But notice that nowhere does Apple say that OS X is the most secure.
Don't gotta sell me... I've always been of the opinion that OS X was just as prone to attack as any other system and with OS X the 'favored' way of entry is thru safari... Kids today LOVE overloading the browser -- like it was some kind of new idea.... These issues are 'almost' as old as the browser itself .. well to be more accurate (I think) be to say 'as old as Javascript ... err ECMA Script... '
Anyway... there doesn't YET exist a lock that can't be picked...
And based on current readings I had though quantum based systems would possibly be an answer but nope they too suffer from similar hacking methods used on todays normal systems.
Maybe I was thing about quantum entanglement based systems... or who knows.. but even if a military designed/contracted (?) 'unhackable' chip costing $70k a pop (hey its only the taxpayers they can afford it!) can't even live up to ITS name (too 6 weeks to hack... all but it with some very expensive equipment and certain caveats that were detailed in the report then how is just about ANYTHING ever hope to be 'secure'.
Which brings us full circle... and back to the basic premiss that you should do what you feel is most necessary to ensure your security but know full well that if someone wasn't to get at it THEY will and in the end nothing can prevent them from doing so.
Perhaps if everyone was reminded of this we would be more conscious and cautious of where we chose to PUT our data personal/private data and scattering it across lots of different services might not be the best approach.
Then again is putting it all in one basket any better?
A true test of what exactly? The point of this is that it can be hacked; not how long it takes. The event is called pwn2own, not pwnfast2own.
Keep the blinders on, it's safe under there.
Really?
The point of this is that the Mac isn't really hacked at all it's using social engineering to activate the exploits, i.e. getting people to visit malicious sites.
All of the Mac hacks had to be worked on BEFORE the contest started whereas Windows could be hacked onsite on the day.
Windows has a 20 minute life on the Internet before it gets hit by hackers and the like and yet there is no recorded case of a Mac being hacked in the wild except for people visiting sites of ill repute.
The biggest case in point was the iWork and Photoshop incidents that involved files being illegally downloaded off bit torrent sites. However it required people to download and install the software.
Windows doesn't need that. Simply opening an e-mail can kick off a virus and considering Outlook is set as default to open e-mails using the Preview Pane then you can understand the problem.
So no it's not really a true test of how insecure Mac OS X or the iPhone really is. It might be a test of how insecure Safari is because that's always what's used in these events.
While it is a grey area whether or not social engineering is really hacking this flaw can easily be thwarted through education. Not so much Windows attacks.
Now, if the contest rules stated that all work had to be done onsite within a certain time without any extra software or hardware being bought in then we'll see how good the security of the system is.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
Wishful thinking by windows fanboys since 2002. OS X?no anti-virus?no problem!
Comments
Not that I care, or use Photoshop; but doesn't the demo still expire after the clock runs out without activation?
I don't know, but I found a valid serial online and used that during the install. Maybe the demo key sets off a timer or something.
Sorry thought this part of my post loosely addressed that: "(and I read all about it every year)"
My question is why do the media (and commenters) not address these questions about the competition, whose absence make the results meaningless?
Sorry I missed your point the first time. They did have people trying hacks against Chrome but I don't think the results are in yet foir those attempts or they will be done tomorrow. I know that they did not even include Ubuntu this year because it was not compromised the last 3 years.......
Checkout the bottom of the article here for the latest updates and the rest of the lineup....
Hope this helps...
http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/...5/pwn2own-2010
no - it means that charlie miller was well prepared. IIRC - in the past he had found vulnerabilities in open source contributions to the mac os and didn't report them so he could get himself a macbook air.
Not true.... yes he was prepared to hack the Mac BUT the last 2 years that he hacked the Mac was through an exploit he reported to Apple that went unpatched. Now he does not want to just report exploits to the software vendors but teach/instruct them on how to do their own exploit findings...
What is the #1 reason then?
job security of windows certified technicians of course.
For this hack to work in the real world, you would need to physically click a link to the malicious site somehow (in an email maybe, or a link via IM or whatever). Social Engineering. It relies on the ignorance of the computer user to do the hacker's job for him, because he can't do it himself.
Can your Mac get hacked remotely? No.
Will the hacker drive to your house and personally point your web browser to his site to infect your Mac? Not likely.
Ha ha ha ha ha, seriously dude grow up. Real users in the real world click on "links" as part of the "internet experience", can that possible happen????? are you serious??? (how do you think PC users get hacked???) . Its not just PC that get hacked or are at risk, its just a % game.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
I cannot believe that you are labelling users as ignorant if they get exploited, lame, last i checked Apple did not send out manual of approved sites to visit, and as people like yourself keep telling users how wonderful and secure Os X /macs are, and now mac do not get viruses etc, some poor chump out there that is not computer literate is going to get hacked/exploited cause of the BS fanboys dribble, and this so called chump gets labelled as ignorant.. ppffffft!
No matter what system you are on, you have to take security seriously. And be vigilant at all times.
job security of windows certified technicians of course.
LOL so you know this first hand? I am on a committee evaluating iPhone for our corporate environment. We are also directed by a SVP to evaluate the iPad. No business reason was given just the the SVP thought it was "cool" so we should see if we can find a place for the hardware in our business space......... I would LOVE to be able to have a MBP for my work laptop. I would LOVE to have the company pay for my iphone to use at work!!!
Apple does not have the business needs in place to make their product work in a eneterprise enviroment....... they make no bones about this fact either....they target their products as "entertainment devices". their target audience in the average home user....
Not true.... yes he was prepared to hack the Mac BUT the last 2 years that he hacked the Mac was through an exploit he reported to Apple that went unpatched. Now he does not want to just report exploits to the software vendors but teach/instruct them on how to do their own exploit findings...
maybe this year was different, but i remember his first spectacular takeover was orchestrated through a bug in webkit, and only worked after the organizers relaxed the rules. my point was that it wasn't a hack written on the spot, but well prepared. that's why it took him under two minutes.
and yes, apple should not be dragging their heels when it comes to plugging security holes.
but you would have to agree that the sensational headlines of a hacked mac are just as meaningless as 'the windows is more secure if you run win7 and IE8/9' argument, as long as there are still hundreds of thousands of IE6 users running on unpatched XP boxes out there.
maybe this year was different, but i remember his first spectacular takeover was orchestrated through a bug in webkit, and only worked after the organizers relaxed the rules. my point was that it wasn't a hack written on the spot, but well prepared. that's why it took him under two minutes.
and yes, apple should not be dragging their heels when it comes to plugging security holes.
but you would have to agree that the sensational headlines of a hacked mac are just as meaningless as 'the windows is more secure if you run win7 and IE8/9' argument, as long as there are still hundreds of thousands of IE6 users running on unpatched XP boxes out there.
You do have a point about the Mac getting more headlines......
I will give you that concession but I think its is also a "shock value" headline as well.... the assumption being that Macs are always more secure than Windows...when any system can get hacked.......
For this hack to work in the real world, you would need to physically click a link to the malicious site somehow (in an email maybe, or a link via IM or whatever). Social Engineering. It relies on the ignorance of the computer user to do the hacker's job for him, because he can't do it himself.
Can your Mac get hacked remotely? No.
Will the hacker drive to your house and personally point your web browser to his site to infect your Mac? Not likely.
Lets stop pretending you actually understand what you are typing. You have no clue what IT Security even involves.
If he didn't have access to the machine it was a remote access hack. There is simply no way you can debate that fact.
Quadra in one way you are correct this isnt that big of a deal because the simple fact is there isnt anything out there that can't be hacked.
Ha ha ha ha ha, seriously dude grow up. Real users in the real world click on "links" as part of the "internet experience", can that possible happen????? are you serious??? (how do you think PC users get hacked???) . Its not just PC that get hacked or are at risk, its just a % game.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
I cannot believe that you are labelling users as ignorant if they get exploited, lame, last i checked Apple did not send out manual of approved sites to visit, and as people like yourself keep telling users how wonderful and secure Os X /macs are, and now mac do not get viruses etc, some poor chump out there that is not computer literate is going to get hacked/exploited cause of the BS fanboys dribble, and this so called chump gets labelled as ignorant.. ppffffft!
No matter what system you are on, you have to take security seriously. And be vigilant at all times.
Quadra is safe because he doesn't actually do any real work. The entire time I have been here the best I can figure out is the guy loves his iPhone and the most technical thing he does is iWorks.com.
I mean I guess someone could hack his system and steal his Steve Jobs screen saver.
All these hacks need is just 1 click by an ignorant oblivious user to be raped by malicious code. Having the biggest marketshare Windows is under constant attack by hackers. Apple has the luxury of being a smaller premium market and less attacks are made against the user base simply because of that.
OS X isn't some fortress of impenetrability, so you can kill that thinking off. Is it safer to use OS X? Yes it is, but it's not more secure, OS X users are vulnerable as well.
You do have a point about the Mac getting more headlines......
I will give you that concession but I think its is also a "shock value" headline as well.... the assumption being that Macs are always more secure than Windows...when any system can get hacked.......
I'll say! Just do a google for "pwn2own first" and see what comes up.
Take note; this is the list from CanSecWest of everything that fell on day 1
Here are the results, in order:
\t1.\tPWNED! Vincenzo Iozzo and Ralf Philipp Weinmann - iPhone
\t2.\tPWNED! Charlie Miller - Safari
\t3.\tNils - Safari (prize claimed)
\t4.\tPWNED! Peter Vreugdenhil - Internet Explorer 8
\t5.\tMemACCT - Internet Explorer 8 (prize claimed)
\t6.\tAnonymous - Nokia
\t7.\tAnonymous - iPhone (prize claimed)
\t8.\tPWNED! Nils - Firefox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHZaPec0_I8
And the reason they are in that counting order is because that is the order that was pulled from the drawing. (the iPhone hacking guys went first. Charlie Miller went second, etc)
But my point is that, in the media, it gets played-up like the iPhone was the first thing down because it was the weakest thing out there.
(that may actually be the case; but that's not why it was the first thing to fall
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
We heard the same story after every pwn2own circus act. Macs are doing better in sales, but the natural limits of the Premium end of the market puts a stopper on Macs spreading too far, too fast. We can start with the $1000 entry-fee, unless we're talking Mac Minis. Windows will always command the lion's share of the consumer market, due in part to Microsoft whoring out their OS to all takers. Mac users are no more vulnerable now than they were five years ago. You can still turn off every single security feature in OS X (save for what your router provides) and surf even questionable sites with impunity.
That massive wave of Mac malware just won't happen. Now that Apple is gradually transitioning to the iPad platform (which is closer to a Mac than any other Apple handheld), there will be even less focus on Macs. By controlling the Premium end Apple has once and for all shielded itself from the nastiness that affects the rest of the computer-using population, regardless of how good Unix is. In fact, using the same logic that Windows-sufferers use (low market share), the more popular Windows is, the better Macs will fare when it comes to malware.
You can't use the security via obscurity argument and the "Macs are doing better in sales" argument at the same time. Macs will never, ever enjoy strong enough sales to deflect hackers' attention from Windows - which, by the way, is using another argument often employed by Windows-sufferers: it isn't worth hackers' time to target OS X. Even Apple's record Mac sales are nothing compared to all the junkboxes sold with Windows. Hey, fair enough. We're quite comfortable and sitting quite pretty with between 50-70 million OS X users. We don't need more to keep enjoying OS X and Macs, and besides, it doesn't look like waves upon waves of average users are about to miraculously enter into higher income brackets anytime soon, no matter hoe many more consumers are buying Macs in a recession. Either way, Mac users win.
Quadra is safe because he doesn't actually do any real work. The entire time I have been here the best I can figure out is the guy loves his iPhone and the most technical thing he does is iWorks.com.
I mean I guess someone could hack his system and steal his Steve Jobs screen saver.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Many people do "real work" in Numbers (or Excel) or iWork (Pages, for example.) Entire books are written with word processors. 200+ page PhD dissertations are written with Pages. Or Word. Or even OpenOffice.
Nor am i sure what any of this has to do with OS security.
I'm safe because I use a platform that is well-designed and doesn't run 99.99999% of malware out there. Nor will it ever come close to doing so.
Anyway, if a hacker has physical access to the machine, all bets are off.
As soon as one of these exploits happens without physical access to the machine, or with physical access to a properly secured machine, I'll be impressed.
LOL so you know this first hand? I am on a committee evaluating iPhone for our corporate environment. We are also directed by a SVP to evaluate the iPad. No business reason was given just the the SVP thought it was "cool" so we should see if we can find a place for the hardware in our business space......... I would LOVE to be able to have a MBP for my work laptop. I would LOVE to have the company pay for my iphone to use at work!!!
Apple does not have the business needs in place to make their product work in a eneterprise enviroment....... they make no bones about this fact either....they target their products as "entertainment devices". their target audience in the average home user....
you are absolutely right about apple going after the home market and more or less ignoring the enterprise. i have however experienced the sneering drivel of ignorant IT departments that have dismissed macs as toys for even the most basic business tasks for decades.
kudos for your company for having actually explored the possibility, but i'm sure you have run into the type of people i'm talking about. it's entirely possible that macs don't fit into certain environments primarily because past IT managers have locked the entire infrastructure into microsoft's 'solutions' that have been hobbled to not fully support other platforms. just compare entourage to outlook.
I think there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Please do a little research. I know there is not a lot of info available for this year's contest. There is no blow by blow account like an Apple Keynote, but this is sort of how it works:.
Okay perhaps there is but what I stated in MY post while likely NOT 100% accurate is for the most part true... Perhaps with a bit of over zealous comments thrown in here or there.
Are you saying Apple is NOT a HUGE target and extra attention is often devoted to hacking them to simply put them in their place? I don't think this is a big secret... The hacker community want's to prove their point that NO SYSTEM IS SAFE and any 'preconceived notion that Macs were SAFTER is far from the truth and they are 100% focused on reminding the public year after year.
*I* get it! And I think **MOST OF US** get it. Apple is NOT bullet proof sure, fine! I'd still pick OS X if I were forced to chose OSX, Windows or Linux as my primary system...
It it also not true that hacking a Microsoft product is not consider as great a feat as hacking an Apple branded product? The press simply got bored of reporting every instance a Microsoft system was compromised. It would be like reporting ever instance someone was stung by a bee in the middle of summer... Simply NOT news worthy...
It is it just coincidence that Apple seems to be the BIG NEWS year after year when this conference kicks off and little press is ever made of hackers defeating Microsoft products year after year. Perhaps I'm looking at this fact thru some rose colored glasses since I don't even attempt to claim I visit a ton of Windows centric news sites. And even IF windows exploits DID make the normal/traditional news sites I'd likely skip it over (or found it buried on page 32) because its simply not real news and lets face it in todays work if Steve farts it would likely make page 2 at the minimum and certainly front page on a slower news day.
Lastly the other main point I was getting across what the lack DESPITE this CLEARLY FALLIBLE and QUICKLY HACKABLE nature of OS X (as demonstrated year after year - something that I'm not disputing) still to this day why has nothing has ever come of it in the form on a REAL WORLD virus or worm, trojan, etc?
Are these point all totally incorrect?!
But notice that nowhere does Apple say that OS X is the most secure.
Don't gotta sell me... I've always been of the opinion that OS X was just as prone to attack as any other system and with OS X the 'favored' way of entry is thru safari... Kids today LOVE overloading the browser -- like it was some kind of new idea.... These issues are 'almost' as old as the browser itself .. well to be more accurate (I think) be to say 'as old as Javascript ... err ECMA Script... '
Anyway... there doesn't YET exist a lock that can't be picked...
And based on current readings I had though quantum based systems would possibly be an answer but nope they too suffer from similar hacking methods used on todays normal systems.
Maybe I was thing about quantum entanglement based systems... or who knows.. but even if a military designed/contracted (?) 'unhackable' chip costing $70k a pop (hey its only the taxpayers they can afford it!) can't even live up to ITS name (too 6 weeks to hack... all but it with some very expensive equipment and certain caveats that were detailed in the report then how is just about ANYTHING ever hope to be 'secure'.
Which brings us full circle... and back to the basic premiss that you should do what you feel is most necessary to ensure your security but know full well that if someone wasn't to get at it THEY will and in the end nothing can prevent them from doing so.
Perhaps if everyone was reminded of this we would be more conscious and cautious of where we chose to PUT our data personal/private data and scattering it across lots of different services might not be the best approach.
Then again is putting it all in one basket any better?
A true test of what exactly? The point of this is that it can be hacked; not how long it takes. The event is called pwn2own, not pwnfast2own.
Keep the blinders on, it's safe under there.
Really?
The point of this is that the Mac isn't really hacked at all it's using social engineering to activate the exploits, i.e. getting people to visit malicious sites.
All of the Mac hacks had to be worked on BEFORE the contest started whereas Windows could be hacked onsite on the day.
Windows has a 20 minute life on the Internet before it gets hit by hackers and the like and yet there is no recorded case of a Mac being hacked in the wild except for people visiting sites of ill repute.
The biggest case in point was the iWork and Photoshop incidents that involved files being illegally downloaded off bit torrent sites. However it required people to download and install the software.
Windows doesn't need that. Simply opening an e-mail can kick off a virus and considering Outlook is set as default to open e-mails using the Preview Pane then you can understand the problem.
So no it's not really a true test of how insecure Mac OS X or the iPhone really is. It might be a test of how insecure Safari is because that's always what's used in these events.
While it is a grey area whether or not social engineering is really hacking this flaw can easily be thwarted through education. Not so much Windows attacks.
Now, if the contest rules stated that all work had to be done onsite within a certain time without any extra software or hardware being bought in then we'll see how good the security of the system is.
Now that Macs are doing better and better in sales, the risk of security will increase. Sure put your head in the sand and keep mumbling to yourself Apple is the best, apple is the best! As apple gets bigger and bigger more hackers will target them, the days of being complacent and arrogant and counting down.
Wishful thinking by windows fanboys since 2002. OS X?no anti-virus?no problem!