Apple executives sell $200 million in stock

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 76
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Further, executives who get a lot of their compensation from stock options end up with a lot of stock in the company. They regularly sell some of their holdings to avoid being heavily over-invested.
  • Reply 22 of 76
    joelsaltjoelsalt Posts: 827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    OK then how about "They're smart enough to sell right before iPad is released."?

    Or do you think that pure coincidence?



    it very well could be a coincidence.



    But the timing is a bit odd isn't it?
  • Reply 23 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    It's all about the hits. Excellent post, by the way.



    Thanks. It really makes me laugh when bloggers like PED toss-off stuff like that. The article was much worse early on. He fixed bits of it, but he's gotten a bit defensive in the the comments as he's done so.



    Anyone who has had to accept stock options as a part of a compensation package understands the rules and guidelines around them. They are used to tie personal gain to company success (usually for executives and managers) - so if the company does well, the stock goes up - the value of the options goes up too. But you can't exercise them until the action date, and frequently you only have so much time in which to so do. Also corporate officers are required to do a disclosure under Rule 10b5-1 which is an SEC-accepted stock action plan for executives - to prevent the misuse of insider information when selling stock or exercising stock options.
  • Reply 24 of 76
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    Exactly.



    We see this:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


    Remember, executives can't just sell stock as they want. They have to file papers a long time before the intended sale date. That date just happened to be the same day as the (then) all-time high.

    So any trolls that say something to the effect of "Executives are bailing! APPLE IS DOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!" are wrong.



    Then in reply you post this:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    OK then how about "They're smart enough to sell right before iPad is released."?

    Or do you think that pure coincidence?



    (Obviously implying that the sell-off was Apple execs bailing because they have little faith in their product.)



    Then, after this particularly lucid post which completely destroys the "Apple execs are bailing" nonsense, here:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    Certainly not a coincidence - of course they knew the launch date of the iPad and EVERYONE knew that the hype surround the iPad release date would be *likely* to have a positive impact on the stock price - so what would YOU do? you are sitting on stock options that are worth millions - but essentially have no value at all really until you SELL them - history tells us that stock prices spike around the time folks are expecting something miraculous to happen with the company's products - and then perhaps dip again when enough people get their hands on said product and it turns out to fall short of the wet dream you had with Bo Derek's poster over your bed when you where 12 and the flame wars begin between those who blast the company for a product that coulda, shoulda, woulda be better if only if.... vs those who gloss over any shortcomings and make excuses based on personal opinion and heresay and say things like just wait till the next update THAT one will be freakin' AWESOME. While the majority of us just sigh and think - give it a rest you guys - and when you get a chance join the rest of us in the real world for awhile would ya please.



    Something that I think would be big news would be an executive timing their sale of ALL theirs shares on the day the stock reaches its LOWEST point - then I think I might be concerned that person knows something that the rest of us are about to find out the hard way.



    So perhaps it is interesting when so-and-so sells a million shares - and it happens to coincide with the 52 week high (or whatever combination of factors) but perhaps more interesting would be a chart showing how many shares are held by each and every executive - when they are fully vested or matured or sellable or whatever - so you could see how many he still has. To look at it another way if you herd a hollywood celebrity is selling off 20 cars - that might seem significant - but if you then find out it is Jay Leno and he will still have 200 cars left in his collection after the sale (just making numbers here) does that change the impact of the story? (actually Jay selling ANY of his cars might be newsworthy) the point is that any single data point without any context or historical trending etc isn't very useful information.







    You post this:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    Exactly.



    ROFL only you in your infinite trolling are capable of such flip-flopping. If you’re wrong, just admit it and move on. Man up, already.
  • Reply 25 of 76
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Your thinking short term, these executives knew well in advance the stock would be high before a release of a new product.



    The very fact that they are selling goes to show they don't believe the stock is going to keep go up, rather it's going to trend down for some reason or several reasons. Likely they believe the iPad is not going to be such a success as they lead people to believe.



    After all there is a huge cost barrier to the iPad and there's a recession going on. The iPad is not a standalone device, it requires a investment in a computer to make it work, so that limits it's sales to those who already have a computer and need another device. It's already been shown it's going to take sales away from the iPod Touch.



    Also it's just a matter of time before publishers realize they can just sell their content directly to the computer users and make all the profit and undercut Apple's 30% iBookStore commission.



    The consumer will decide they can get the same content cheaper on their computers and not have to buy a $500 or more device to read e-books.



    Also the fact that Apple just added 30,000 free e-books to the iBookStore gives customers a lot of reading material without having to buy anything. I'm sure publishers really loved that move, they want the whole iBookStore's eyeballs to themselves and customers buying instead of freeloading.



    Once people find out about the hundreds of thousands of free e-books available (look for my post in Temporary Insanity Forum for links) and realize it's going to be a lot of work transferring them to the iPad, they will decide to just use their computer in the first place, has more storage too.



    The flaw in your argument is that they sold as soon as they could. They were not waiting for an opportune time. They were not thinking: hey the iPad will be out in five years, lets issue some executive stock options. Maybe it was just coincidence they sold the options right before tax time and they needed to sell some shares to cover taxes anyway. Besides, do you think these guys go out and spend millions a year on themselves? They, like most executives, have side interests that they are investing in. You are thinking like an investor that is trying to get a return on their money. In this case, the money is a reward. A lot of it is probably angel investing. They are not lining their pockets so they can buy some third world country and an army of servants or something... They do have new options that will vest years from now after all. Apple will continue it's innovation. After all they haven't slacked yet in the last ten years. If they ever slow down, I'm sure it will be because they don't want to grow anymore. If they reach that point, I'm sure they will switch to paying dividends instead of luring investors with company growth. They have products that take a lot of motivation to switch from so they would have to be doing very poorly to decline in value. You don't just trivially say, I think I'm going to switch to Windows this week because it takes a lot of work and reinvestment to switch to another platform.



    As to your argument that strangely ties the iBookStore to their stock price even though it is run to break even, the publishers already know they can circumvent Apple if they want to. O'reily and Pragmatic Programmer are already distributing in epub format (and show a picture of the iPad on their download screen). I think they see the iBookStore giving them extra exposure though. You are also free to circumvent the iTunes music store, but people still use it. How much of a cut do you think brick and mortar stores take? I'm sure it's more then 30%. I doubt everyone will decided to forgo new books and read nothing but classics... that is a history teachers pipe dream.
  • Reply 26 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    OK then how about "They're smart enough to sell right before iPad is released."?

    Or do you think that pure coincidence?



    these shares were given to them over 5 years ago, and they sold them as soon as they legally could. The stock could have been at 150 and they'd still make a killing. The imminent iPad release is irrelevant.



    Go home.
  • Reply 27 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post


    it very well could be a coincidence.



    But the timing is a bit odd isn't it?



    Relly guys? You're either being spectacularly obtuse, willfully goofy, or ignoring the facts on the ground. Why wouldn't the executives, who are in full ownership of the knowledge (known also by the public at large) that the stock price tends to float prior to a new release of product NOT choose to exercise their stock options to their own advantage. The only issue here is making sure that they do so without the appearance of using "insider" information - which is what SEC Form 4 Rule 10b5-1 is supposed to prevent. So once they have notified the SEC of their intent to sell they sell. Nothing magical here. Note also that their older options were replaced with newer options (see my response above) at the same amount. So while they were able to net out profitably with their current matured options, the new ones were given them AT THE CURRENT STOCK PRICE. So Apple will have to do EVEN BETTER for them to profit once these new ones mature in however many years. Stock options are meant to ensure that the executives are driving strong company performance and to compensate them when they do so successfully.



    It is rather silly to expect the exercise of the stock options at a stock price low point isn't it?? SO why all the idiotic speculation about what is driving this
  • Reply 28 of 76
    Before people jump off on conspiracy theories -- as a few already have -- it is important to note that insider sales have been generally increasing these past couple of months across-the-board in corporate America. Executives from many well-known companies -- e.g., Cisco, Walmart, Amazon, Google, to name just a few -- have been doing exactly the same thing. (See, e.g., http://www.insider-monitor.com/).



    It is probably largely driven by the fact that many options were hugely under water for the past couple of years, and finally, executives have had the opportunity to cash in when these things have vested and the market has rebounded.



    Could it be a larger 'sell' signal? Some think so, and some empirical evidence points to a short-term negative stock price reaction to such sales.



    However, in the long-run, it does not amount to much, and most of these execs (certainly the ones listed from AAPL) have a huge chunk of their wealth still tied to the future value of the stock.
  • Reply 29 of 76
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    Re



    SO why all the idiotic speculation about what is driving this



    Trolls in the thread.
  • Reply 30 of 76
    I wonder if some motivation has to do obama raising capital gains tax rates to 20% (+3.8%=23.8% on sales over $200,000) next year to pay for the health care bill.



    BTW, you report $1.00 over $200,000 in gain, you pay 3.8% for all of the gain; not just the dollars over $200,000.
  • Reply 31 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Your thinking short term, these executives knew well in advance the stock would be high before a release of a new product.



    The very fact that they are selling goes to show they don't believe the stock is going to keep go up, rather it's going to trend down for some reason or several reasons. Likely they believe the iPad is not going to be such a success as they lead people to believe.



    After all there is a huge cost barrier to the iPad and there's a recession going on. The iPad is not a standalone device, it requires a investment in a computer to make it work, so that limits it's sales to those who already have a computer and need another device. It's already been shown it's going to take sales away from the iPod Touch.



    Also it's just a matter of time before publishers realize they can just sell their content directly to the computer users and make all the profit and undercut Apple's 30% iBookStore commission.



    The consumer will decide they can get the same content cheaper on their computers and not have to buy a $500 or more device to read e-books.



    Also the fact that Apple just added 30,000 free e-books to the iBookStore gives customers a lot of reading material without having to buy anything. I'm sure publishers really loved that move, they want the whole iBookStore's eyeballs to themselves and customers buying instead of freeloading.



    Once people find out about the hundreds of thousands of free e-books available (look for my post in Temporary Insanity Forum for links) and realize it's going to be a lot of work transferring them to the iPad, they will decide to just use their computer in the first place, has more storage too.



    As a mentioned above - spectacularly obtuse. I'm not even going to dignify so much nonsense with a point-by-point rebuttal - you seriously lack understanding around pub distribution, around the nature of free to paid content, and financial operations for executives in general, among other things. At least attempt to do the very least amount of backgrounding about the subject matter before you embarrass yourself at the same level that our dear Turet-ridden commenter TECHSTUD does.
  • Reply 32 of 76
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Before people jump off on conspiracy theories -- as a few already have -- it is important to note that insider sales have been generally increasing these past couple of months across-the-board in corporate America. Executives from many well-known companies -- e.g., Cisco, Walmart, Amazon, Google, to name just a few -- have been doing exactly the same thing. (See, e.g., http://www.insider-monitor.com/).



    It is probably largely driven by the fact that many options were hugely under water for the past couple of years, and finally, executives have had the opportunity to cash in when these things have vested and the market has rebounded.



    Could it be a larger 'sell' signal? Some think so, and some empirical evidence points to a short-term negative stock price reaction to such sales.



    However, in the long-run, it does not amount to much, and most of these execs (certainly the ones listed from AAPL) have a huge chunk of their wealth still tied to the future value of the stock.



    Unlike most companies, AAPL was only underwater for a short period of time early last year (if at all). Had the options vested then, I'm sure we would have seen some options sold at that time. As noted, this has nothing to do with the iPad.
  • Reply 33 of 76
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MsNly View Post


    Stock is up over $4.50 today by the way.



    yep. doesn't seem to have made a big difference cause it's back up this morning. i can't wait to see what happens over the next few weeks as the ipad comes out, the ipad 3g comes out, new laptops could be announced. perhaps new desktops also (or at least a new pro), the new phone could happen.



    a friend of mine was smart enough to buy some stock during the great plunge and in june can sell it with a huge tax penalty. He says if it hits $250 a share he is likely to sell at least some. Especially if there are new laptops cause his is 5 years old.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    OK then how about "They're smart enough to sell right before iPad is released."?

    Or do you think that pure coincidence?



    the stock price has been going up at least a few cents pretty much every day since the ipad release date was announced. And with more and more companies signing on for ebooks, etextbooks, games etc the fever is high. The likelihood is that the price will jump early the first week of April when the sales numbers for days one and two come out, especially if reports of continued lines and crowds that week come with the numbers. The executives would be idiots to sell now because they would lose money.



    Also, even if the price had dropped, there would be all kinds of talk of insider trading because why would they sell right before a major release unless they knew it was going to be bad. So that's another possible ding on them. And another huge one. You really think that Heir Apparent Tim Cook would risk his move to the throne like that.
  • Reply 34 of 76
    spotonspoton Posts: 645member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    So are you putting your money where your mouth is and shorting Apple stock?



    Not short, but I did take my profits just like the Apple executives did.
  • Reply 35 of 76
    techstudtechstud Posts: 124member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    (Obviously implying that the sell-off was Apple execs bailing because they have little faith in their product.)




    ?? That's your interpretation only. I never inferred that in the least.
  • Reply 36 of 76
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


    Remember, executives can't just sell stock as they want. They have to file papers a long time before the intended sale date. That date just happened to be the same day as the (then) all-time high



    Actually, in this case, they cannot sell stock they do not own.

    The stock was issued in 2005 but they could not sell it because they were not fully vested (they didn't fully own the stock) until Wednesday.
  • Reply 37 of 76
    techstudtechstud Posts: 124member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post


    these shares were given to them over 5 years ago, and they sold them as soon as they legally could. The stock could have been at 150 and they'd still make a killing. The imminent iPad release is irrelevant.



    Go home.



    Could have, should have , would have.

    I'm sure they wouldn't care if they sell now or at $150.
  • Reply 38 of 76
    ai46ai46 Posts: 56member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Don't bother. Their name still shows up when they post, just the contents of their post are hidden, with an option on the side to reveal them. The only real way for an Ignore List to to work is to hide their posts completely.



    The OP needs to know to click on the link named "User CP" and then in the User Control Panel to click on "Edit Ignore List" and then add the soon-to-be-ignored-troll's name to the "Add a Member to Your List. . . " box and click Okay. BTW, my ignore list is up to 274.

    Unfortunately, for the ignore list to be really effective, the ignored member's remarks should also be hidden, especially when they're quoted during an admonition by a Moderator to "Don't feed the Trolls."
  • Reply 39 of 76
    techstudtechstud Posts: 124member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Trolls in the thread.



    Trolls this, trolls that- do you understand how limited your vocabulary is?
  • Reply 40 of 76
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Your thinking short term, these executives knew well in advance the stock would be high before a release of a new product.



    The very fact that they are selling goes to show they don't believe the stock is going to keep go up, rather it's going to trend down for some reason or several reasons. Likely they believe the iPad is not going to be such a success as they lead people to believe.



    After all there is a huge cost barrier to the iPad and there's a recession going on. The iPad is not a standalone device, it requires a investment in a computer to make it work, so that limits it's sales to those who already have a computer and need another device. It's already been shown it's going to take sales away from the iPod Touch.



    Also it's just a matter of time before publishers realize they can just sell their content directly to the computer users and make all the profit and undercut Apple's 30% iBookStore commission.



    The consumer will decide they can get the same content cheaper on their computers and not have to buy a $500 or more device to read e-books.



    Also the fact that Apple just added 30,000 free e-books to the iBookStore gives customers a lot of reading material without having to buy anything. I'm sure publishers really loved that move, they want the whole iBookStore's eyeballs to themselves and customers buying instead of freeloading.



    Once people find out about the hundreds of thousands of free e-books available (look for my post in Temporary Insanity Forum for links) and realize it's going to be a lot of work transferring them to the iPad, they will decide to just use their computer in the first place, has more storage too.



    So its your prediction that the iPad will fail before its even released? ok we'll see how that pans out in the next 3 months or so.
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