I have a 4 year old Palm Tungsten T3 PDA. I play music in the restroom during long hot showers all the time. Still works. No moisture indicators. No product glitches. No need for warranties. Check out user reviews for Apple products on Amazon. Quite a few complaints of product failure after minimal moisture exposure.
Perhaps Apple should just build a better product. Oh, that's right. It would cost an extra $2 per unit. That comes out of profit. My bad. Nevermind.
hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves
How would one be able to do that (i.e., "take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again") without ever cracking the case, thereby voiding the warranty?
I am a stock holder and generally love Apple products. Further, I have had generally good service from Apple (although sometimes I have had to take an issue up the chain of company all the way to the top). Accordingly, I hate to see the company sued.
I, however, think this suit isn't frivolous at all and I will be interested to see how credible the Court will find the third party evidence suggesting the indicators aren't reliable. Myself, I suspect the indicators aren't always reliable and that they should only be a used by Apple as a flag to look at such devices more carefully.
What does your issue have to do with indicator lights? Apple care generally has a good reputation. That doesn't mean it is not acting unfair in this instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOutlaw
I have a 2.5 year old alum iMac.
The HD started to act up. It just wouldn't start, unless I left it completely cool off.
The screen had the vertical ripples in it.
And, the mouse scroll wheel was dead for the second time.
I took it to the Apple Store.
Where, I bought a 2 TB Western Digital external drive, and did a total Time Machine backup.
Then,
Apple took over (after helping me with all that), it took a few hours, and I just walked the mall.
They replaced my 320GB HD with a new 500 GB, loaded with Snow Leopard. They put in a new LCD screen and glass, and of course, gave me another new mouse.
Total cost to Applecare = just under $1000.00
I just bought the external drive, (which I should have anyway).
I consider myself lucky, ,to have had my data saved, and, yes, I recommend AppleCare.
Over the years, (about 12) I have nothing but praise for the folks at the San Francisco Apple store. I have never had to take my laptop in, however my late daughter had to take her IPod in several times. Even though a few times it was clearly her fault that the IPod failed, they alway replaced it, and extended the warranty to boot. Great service! I do also however question the sensors though, My Macbook (2006) has been everywhere; Outside in 40 below temps in Minnesota to 130 in Needles, CA where I live now. Still lives on. Just checked my IPod Touch, all is good. But my Macbook? who knows what any sensors would say.
Over the years, (about 12) I have nothing but praise for the folks at the San Francisco Apple store. I have never had to take my laptop in, however my late daughter had to take her IPod in several times. Even though a few times it was clearly her fault that the IPod failed, they alway replaced it, and extended the warranty to boot. Great service! I do also however question the sensors though, My Macbook (2006) has been everywhere; Outside in 40 below temps in Minnesota to 130 in Needles, CA where I live now. Still lives on. Just checked my IPod Touch, all is good. But my Macbook? who knows what any sensors would say.
My old iBook G4 14" was basically replaced, piece by piece from all the problems it had and under AppleCare it was all replaced and still runs OS X 10.4 daily.
However, as a mechanical engineer I'm well aware of the tolerance level of electronics and your temperature differentials are outside that temperature range. I would expect my warranty to be voided if I was using in such extremes seeing as the operating temp specs and storage ranges are clearly listed by Apple:
This story is actually very interesting to me because it was not to long ago that I took my black iPhone 3G to the genius bar due to the plastic backing developing cracks to see if i could get it replaced, which from what I understood at the time, apple had realized there was some fault in the plastic that caused the backings of some iPhones to develop small hairline cracks not caused by abuse or misuse.
So i go to the apple store and tell the genius about the cracks. first thing he does is take out his little light and checks my sensors only to tell me that one of my sensors was activated and therefore my warranty was void and the cracks which apple had acknowledged as a problem was no long their problem because my liquid sensor was activated.
This kind of made me mad for multiple reasons. First off, after the genius told me i questioned him about this whole sensor thing and he told me that the only way the sensor would go off was if my phone was fully submerged in liquid. Now this was probably the most retarded statement i had ever heard because first off, i know full well that my phone hasn't been submerged in any kind of liquid, and according to this "genius" that baby would have to be completely submerged in liquid for the sensor to trip, which I can only assume that if my iPhone had actually of been fully submerged, I would have some other serious problems going on with my phone like i don't know it not making calls or working functionality wise.
I tried to point this out to him saying, well my phone works fine, its just that I paid all this money and baby it to death and it looks like shit cuz of something apples production dicked up with. It just made me mad that i came in there with a cosmetic issue with my phone, and because of some sensor which according to apple, only triggers when fully submerged, not only am i stuck with a defective product, but my warranty is completely Null.
I truly believe that these sensors are just a way for apple to get out of warrantys.
The last keynote that debuted iPhone OS 4 said what, like 64 million iPhones sold to date?
That's a lot of iPhones and a lot of warrantys, why not make life easier and weed out a few warranties on people who actually use the phone for its intended purpose.
I read online that just exercising and sweating can cause the sensor to trip, I hope this case goes somewhere because i will definetley jump on the bandwagon. I wouldn't be so mad about the whole thing if I actually did drop my iPhone and fully submerged it, but to someone who takes care of their technology and makes sure it is always safe, being told that I had to have dropped my phone into a liquid source which fully engulfed it, kinda pisses me off.
But, but... people on the internet!! They said that just being in an air conditioned room will set it off!!!
Kind of amuses me, like people have said before, EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
Here's the thing that gets me about the location of apples water sensors. Look at any other cell phone/smartphone. Generally the water sensors are located internally, a lot of times near the battery. For example I know the razr's sensor is on the battery pack underneath the backing of the phone.
Most all phones water sensors are kept internally inside the actual phone and are not really, or at all exposed to the open/air.
The iPhones sensors are both extremely accessible and extremely open to the environment and air. One at the dock connector and the other in the head phone Jack.
I just find it interesting that most other phones seem to be perfectly fine with their concealed and less open water sensors but yet such stark controversy on apples sensors which in my opinion are very very vulnerable and accessible to the elements then other phone water sensors.
on my 32GB 3GS with battery issues. The phone was effectively not idling, so it had a nice unusable battery standby of say, 2-3 hours.
I had previously gotten it a bit wet (minor splash from a glass of water), but as soon as I mentioned it to the store, they basically told me my options were limited, and to get a replacement I'd have to shell out $200 (which is the subsidized price, not full price, $500).
I argued with them for quite a bit, but then realized that this would get my out of my contract.
I decided to get the replacement phone, and I am very careful with it now (no setting it near glasses of water, for example)... still wonder what it'd take to trip the sensor; I wonder if putting in my workout bag with sweaty clothes is gonna screw me.
I can tell you from experience there are A LOT of people who do stupid things, or have stupid things happen to their devices and then lie about it to the Genius/Specialist and then get belligerent when they're called on it. There are also people who legitimately have an issue, and didn't violate their warranty, but there are by far the minority and usually are easier to spot out.
If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.
I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...
Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.
Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."
THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.
If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.
Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;
1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.
2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.
3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.
4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"
5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.
Having worked in the mobile phone industry for nine years I can tell that stories like these aren't confined to Apple.
Taking personal responsibility for damaging something seems to be a hard thing for people to do.
btw the gaps where a battery cover inserts into a phone provide ample space for moisture laden air to enter and condense, tripping moisture sensors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd
I can tell you from experience there are A LOT of people who do stupid things, or have stupid things happen to their devices and then lie about it to the Genius/Specialist and then get belligerent when they're called on it. There are also people who legitimately have an issue, and didn't violate their warranty, but there are by far the minority and usually are easier to spot out.
If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.
I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...
Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.
Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."
THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.
If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.
Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;
1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.
2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.
3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.
4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"
5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.
I bet this problem is prevalent in the US where you go from an air conditioned environment to the warm humid atmosphere outside such as in Florida. It is a bit like taking a can of coke out of the fridge - condensation will form inside and out.
Talk about having your corn flakes pissed on.. How do you know any of this? Have you ever tested the sensors in a lab setting or have any sort of independent proof? It's not hard to imagine someone using their phone in a locker room or another humid environment and having their sensors go off. You shouldn't be so nasty if you don't have evidence to back up your claims.
And if the sensors did go off in that situation then Apple would be within their rights to refuse to repair it - AS IT WILL HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF HUMIDITY SPECIFIED FOR THE DEVICE!!!
FWIW, I've heard reports of them being activated by being taken out of heavy AC and into a humid outdoors. Or by being used in the gym, while exercising.
And in those situation IF the phone passed through the limits specified by Apple for humidity then they would go off, correctly!
agree with your comments, If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk. Btw I changed my iPhone 6 times during the warranty period, due faulty batteries twice and to be honest my fault twice, since dropped the iPhone, but it did not cause enough damage to show on indicators, but software went loopy. The other 2 times, we could not work out what was the issue, but syncing was not working. Anyway my point is I know my store manager very well now and we have a laugh and joke about it all the time. He checked the indicators, but always got me a new replacement phone without even a discussion.
Now I am being offered a 3GS at discount rate to upgrade my phone by store manager, not a routine discount, beleive me.
Well, yes, I did mention that further on in my post. I should have been more clear that I was questioning their value as a positive indicator.
Well, my point is that the external sensors DO have value. The fact that they seem to have a significant level of false positives does not negate the value of the external sensors if that information is used properly.
The main value of the sensors is that it can give you a very quick indication (with only a superficial examination) that the phone has not been submerged. There is no battery door on the iPhone, so without external sensors, this would not be possible. I imagine in the vast majority of warentee visits, this would save a lot of time and hassle. Imagine if every visit involved waiting for the device to be opened up!
Now, of course I agree with you that the value of a positive indicator of an external sensor is limited, if it is true that the sensors are prone to false positives. IMO, the positives should only be used to say that further investigation is waranted.
So to say that a positive indicator can't have value because it might be a false reading is bad logic because while the real value of the indicator is in the negative reading, that cannot exist without the possibility of the other.
However, let me be clear. I am not saying that Apple's employees always use this information correctly or even that Apple's policies are correct--I do not know if their guidelines follow what I outline above. But I can easily sat that the indicator's value has to be nill because of false positives is bad reasoning.
Comments
So causing a scene and getting detained/arrested will get your phone fixed if you ever have a need to? Some logic you have...
Perhaps Apple should just build a better product. Oh, that's right. It would cost an extra $2 per unit. That comes out of profit. My bad. Nevermind.
hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves
How would one be able to do that (i.e., "take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again") without ever cracking the case, thereby voiding the warranty?
I, however, think this suit isn't frivolous at all and I will be interested to see how credible the Court will find the third party evidence suggesting the indicators aren't reliable. Myself, I suspect the indicators aren't always reliable and that they should only be a used by Apple as a flag to look at such devices more carefully.
EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
I have a 2.5 year old alum iMac.
The HD started to act up. It just wouldn't start, unless I left it completely cool off.
The screen had the vertical ripples in it.
And, the mouse scroll wheel was dead for the second time.
I took it to the Apple Store.
Where, I bought a 2 TB Western Digital external drive, and did a total Time Machine backup.
Then,
Apple took over (after helping me with all that), it took a few hours, and I just walked the mall.
They replaced my 320GB HD with a new 500 GB, loaded with Snow Leopard. They put in a new LCD screen and glass, and of course, gave me another new mouse.
Total cost to Applecare = just under $1000.00
I just bought the external drive, (which I should have anyway).
I consider myself lucky, ,to have had my data saved, and, yes, I recommend AppleCare.
Be well...
Pete
Over the years, (about 12) I have nothing but praise for the folks at the San Francisco Apple store. I have never had to take my laptop in, however my late daughter had to take her IPod in several times. Even though a few times it was clearly her fault that the IPod failed, they alway replaced it, and extended the warranty to boot. Great service! I do also however question the sensors though, My Macbook (2006) has been everywhere; Outside in 40 below temps in Minnesota to 130 in Needles, CA where I live now. Still lives on. Just checked my IPod Touch, all is good. But my Macbook? who knows what any sensors would say.
My old iBook G4 14" was basically replaced, piece by piece from all the problems it had and under AppleCare it was all replaced and still runs OS X 10.4 daily.
However, as a mechanical engineer I'm well aware of the tolerance level of electronics and your temperature differentials are outside that temperature range. I would expect my warranty to be voided if I was using in such extremes seeing as the operating temp specs and storage ranges are clearly listed by Apple:
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
Electrical and Operating Requirements
for MacBook and MacBook Pro
For the Iphone:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
Environmental requirements
So i go to the apple store and tell the genius about the cracks. first thing he does is take out his little light and checks my sensors only to tell me that one of my sensors was activated and therefore my warranty was void and the cracks which apple had acknowledged as a problem was no long their problem because my liquid sensor was activated.
This kind of made me mad for multiple reasons. First off, after the genius told me i questioned him about this whole sensor thing and he told me that the only way the sensor would go off was if my phone was fully submerged in liquid. Now this was probably the most retarded statement i had ever heard because first off, i know full well that my phone hasn't been submerged in any kind of liquid, and according to this "genius" that baby would have to be completely submerged in liquid for the sensor to trip, which I can only assume that if my iPhone had actually of been fully submerged, I would have some other serious problems going on with my phone like i don't know it not making calls or working functionality wise.
I tried to point this out to him saying, well my phone works fine, its just that I paid all this money and baby it to death and it looks like shit cuz of something apples production dicked up with. It just made me mad that i came in there with a cosmetic issue with my phone, and because of some sensor which according to apple, only triggers when fully submerged, not only am i stuck with a defective product, but my warranty is completely Null.
I truly believe that these sensors are just a way for apple to get out of warrantys.
The last keynote that debuted iPhone OS 4 said what, like 64 million iPhones sold to date?
That's a lot of iPhones and a lot of warrantys, why not make life easier and weed out a few warranties on people who actually use the phone for its intended purpose.
I read online that just exercising and sweating can cause the sensor to trip, I hope this case goes somewhere because i will definetley jump on the bandwagon. I wouldn't be so mad about the whole thing if I actually did drop my iPhone and fully submerged it, but to someone who takes care of their technology and makes sure it is always safe, being told that I had to have dropped my phone into a liquid source which fully engulfed it, kinda pisses me off.
/end rage
But, but... people on the internet!! They said that just being in an air conditioned room will set it off!!!
Kind of amuses me, like people have said before, EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
Here's the thing that gets me about the location of apples water sensors. Look at any other cell phone/smartphone. Generally the water sensors are located internally, a lot of times near the battery. For example I know the razr's sensor is on the battery pack underneath the backing of the phone.
Most all phones water sensors are kept internally inside the actual phone and are not really, or at all exposed to the open/air.
The iPhones sensors are both extremely accessible and extremely open to the environment and air. One at the dock connector and the other in the head phone Jack.
I just find it interesting that most other phones seem to be perfectly fine with their concealed and less open water sensors but yet such stark controversy on apples sensors which in my opinion are very very vulnerable and accessible to the elements then other phone water sensors.
Food for thought.
I had previously gotten it a bit wet (minor splash from a glass of water), but as soon as I mentioned it to the store, they basically told me my options were limited, and to get a replacement I'd have to shell out $200 (which is the subsidized price, not full price, $500).
I argued with them for quite a bit, but then realized that this would get my out of my contract.
I decided to get the replacement phone, and I am very careful with it now (no setting it near glasses of water, for example)... still wonder what it'd take to trip the sensor; I wonder if putting in my workout bag with sweaty clothes is gonna screw me.
If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.
I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...
Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.
Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."
THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.
If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.
Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;
1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.
2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.
3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.
4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"
5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.
I could go on all day ...
Taking personal responsibility for damaging something seems to be a hard thing for people to do.
btw the gaps where a battery cover inserts into a phone provide ample space for moisture laden air to enter and condense, tripping moisture sensors.
I can tell you from experience there are A LOT of people who do stupid things, or have stupid things happen to their devices and then lie about it to the Genius/Specialist and then get belligerent when they're called on it. There are also people who legitimately have an issue, and didn't violate their warranty, but there are by far the minority and usually are easier to spot out.
If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.
I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...
Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.
Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."
THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.
If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.
Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;
1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.
2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.
3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.
4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"
5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.
I could go on all day ...
Deny warranty repairs = bigger profits.
I would like someone to test this indicator in a bathroom after a long hot shower.
It would fail, but then it should as the phone will have been outside the humidity limits quoted by Apple. It would prove nothing!
Talk about having your corn flakes pissed on.. How do you know any of this? Have you ever tested the sensors in a lab setting or have any sort of independent proof? It's not hard to imagine someone using their phone in a locker room or another humid environment and having their sensors go off. You shouldn't be so nasty if you don't have evidence to back up your claims.
And if the sensors did go off in that situation then Apple would be within their rights to refuse to repair it - AS IT WILL HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF HUMIDITY SPECIFIED FOR THE DEVICE!!!
FWIW, I've heard reports of them being activated by being taken out of heavy AC and into a humid outdoors. Or by being used in the gym, while exercising.
And in those situation IF the phone passed through the limits specified by Apple for humidity then they would go off, correctly!
agree with your comments, If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk. Btw I changed my iPhone 6 times during the warranty period, due faulty batteries twice and to be honest my fault twice, since dropped the iPhone, but it did not cause enough damage to show on indicators, but software went loopy. The other 2 times, we could not work out what was the issue, but syncing was not working. Anyway my point is I know my store manager very well now and we have a laugh and joke about it all the time. He checked the indicators, but always got me a new replacement phone without even a discussion.
Now I am being offered a 3GS at discount rate to upgrade my phone by store manager, not a routine discount, beleive me.
So you committed fraud! Shame on you.
Well, yes, I did mention that further on in my post. I should have been more clear that I was questioning their value as a positive indicator.
Well, my point is that the external sensors DO have value. The fact that they seem to have a significant level of false positives does not negate the value of the external sensors if that information is used properly.
The main value of the sensors is that it can give you a very quick indication (with only a superficial examination) that the phone has not been submerged. There is no battery door on the iPhone, so without external sensors, this would not be possible. I imagine in the vast majority of warentee visits, this would save a lot of time and hassle. Imagine if every visit involved waiting for the device to be opened up!
Now, of course I agree with you that the value of a positive indicator of an external sensor is limited, if it is true that the sensors are prone to false positives. IMO, the positives should only be used to say that further investigation is waranted.
So to say that a positive indicator can't have value because it might be a false reading is bad logic because while the real value of the indicator is in the negative reading, that cannot exist without the possibility of the other.
However, let me be clear. I am not saying that Apple's employees always use this information correctly or even that Apple's policies are correct--I do not know if their guidelines follow what I outline above. But I can easily sat that the indicator's value has to be nill because of false positives is bad reasoning.