CONFIRMED: Apple has hitched itself to a sunken ship!

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moogsmoogs
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Nothing further to add. Just wanted to say that in light of recent lunatic prophecies, financial crumblings and pipe-dreaming. Time to get ourselves hitched to "sea-worthy" vessel, if you know what I'm saying.



Right now, I'm more worried about who will provide Apple with speedy and reliable chips a year from now than I am with MHz problems. Motorola is finished. Unless they make a drastic financial turnaround in the next six months, expect the stock to plummet with bankruptcy around the corner....





Stop! IBM Time!
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 84
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:

    <strong>Nothing further to add. Just wanted to say that in light of recent lunatic prophecies, financial crumblings and pipe-dreaming. Time to get ourselves hitched to "sea-worthy" vessel, if you know what I'm saying.



    Right now, I'm more worried about who will provide Apple with speedy and reliable chips a year from now than I am with MHz problems. Motorola is finished. Unless they make a drastic financial turnaround in the next six months, expect the stock to plummet with bankruptcy around the corner....





    Stop! IBM Time!</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Motorola has got big problems , but is not finish, this companies is too big for bankruptcy. In case they will sell some divisions of the company but they will survive.

    One interesting thought : motorola sell his semiconductor division to IBM

    One terrible thought ; motorola sell his semiconductor division to Intel ...



    <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
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  • Reply 2 of 84
    jutusjutus Posts: 272member
    Not so simple, right Moogs?



    1) AltiVec



    2) Apple will have to pay IBM through the nose to get PowerPC's compatible with current G4's etc... since IBM will have no competition for fabrication, right?



    So Apple has to latch onto IBM's existing PPC roadmap somehow.. which of IBM's (future) PPC's are compatible with Apple's desktop computer needs in terms of capability and pricing?
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  • Reply 3 of 84
    mac sack blackmac sack black Posts: 61member
    [quote]Originally posted by Moogs : <strong>Nothing further to add. Just

    wanted to say that in light of recent lunatic prophecies, financial

    crumblings and pipe-dreaming. Time to get ourselves hitched to

    "sea-worthy" vessel, if you know what I'm saying.



    Right now, I'm more worried about who will provide Apple with speedy and

    reliable chips a year from now than I am with MHz problems. Motorola is

    finished. Unless they make a drastic financial turnaround in the next six

    months, expect the stock to plummet with bankruptcy around the corner....





    Stop! IBM Time!</strong><hr></blockquote>





    &gt;with bankruptcy around the corner....



    This irritates me no end. MOTOROLA IS NOT GOING TO GO BROKE. Live with it.



    And what's with the constant ellipses I seem to see around here? Can't

    people here finish their arguments? Or are they too ridiculous (moto

    bankruptcy! moto bankruptcy! etc)?



    As for providing apple with speedy and reliable processors, there are a

    host of companies that could conceivably do it, or IBM even.
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  • Reply 4 of 84
    spotbugspotbug Posts: 361member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac Sack Black:

    <strong>MOTOROLA IS NOT GOING TO GO BROKE</strong><hr></blockquote>



    You make me sad. See?



    It's childish, but I want Motorola to go down in big, blazing, glorious flames. Then I want Apple to smoothly transition right over to IBM's roadmap. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



    Don't you say anything! I'm happily deluded! I mean it! Keep quiet or I'll give you more frownies!
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  • Reply 5 of 84
    cdhostagecdhostage Posts: 1,038member
    NO company is too big to go into bankruptcy. Indeed, if thigs keep sprialing down for Moto, the company most certainly will declare bankruptcy. I really hope Moto sells the PowerPC to IBM.

    And an earlier remark that IBM would then have no competition for production: true, but right now, the agreement between the thre e companies mean that they work together instead of competing.
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  • Reply 6 of 84
    g-newsg-news Posts: 1,107member
    They could also sell it off to Apple themselves.



    G-news
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  • Reply 7 of 84
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Within the past year Enron was considered the 7th largest company in the world.



    Whoops.
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  • Reply 8 of 84
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    [quote]Originally posted by bunge:

    <strong>Within the past year Enron was considered the 7th largest company in the world.



    Whoops.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    An extreme example. no? K-Mart would have been better...
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  • Reply 9 of 84
    maskermasker Posts: 451member
    What kind of ships hitch together?



    A tugboat ... but is Apple the tugboat?



    Lost in metaphorland,



    MSKR



    [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Masker ]</p>
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  • Reply 10 of 84
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    [quote]Originally posted by psantora:

    <strong>



    An extreme example. no? K-Mart would have been better...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Or even Montgomery Wards...
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  • Reply 11 of 84
    the swanthe swan Posts: 82member
    No company is too big to go bankrupt. However, motorola isn't going bankrupt. They're in one of the most promising and lucrative industries, communications. Although they have been ailing lately they have a good reputation (I have a motorola cell phone) and management is taking steps to turn the company around.



    Hey Moogs, how many times did people proclaim Apple dead? Doing pretty well today if you ask me. How about you analyze the Motorola financial statements and then we'll talk again.
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  • Reply 12 of 84
    tjmtjm Posts: 367member
    In their last financial statement, they lost $1.24 billion last quarter. About $1.1 billion was due to one-time costs. Their actual operating loss was only 4 cents per share, better than what the analysts expected. They are predicting one more quarter of losses, then profits the rest of the fiscal year - including an overall profit for the year.



    So Motorola is still going through some tough times, but it actually seems that there is light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not the headlight of an oncoming train ). Their last statement sounded fairly hopeful, to me.
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  • Reply 13 of 84
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac Sack Black:

    <strong>

    This irritates me no end. MOTOROLA IS NOT GOING TO GO BROKE. Live with it. .</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Wanna bet?? CDHostage is right, NO company is too big to go bankrupt. K-mart and Enron anyone? Wake up dude...just because they were strong in the past or are a big company doesn't mean they can control the financial slide they're in.



    Like I said, give it six months. If they continue to struggle this badly, they're finished. Would you buy stock in Motorola right now? Would you buy stock if they had a marginal quarter next time around (let along another big loss)? Neither would I.



    If you had a bunch of shares, would you sell them all if the price went up a few dollars from where it is now, but without any indication that major changes are being made (besides layoffs)? Me too.



    I am not just saying this crap; it's common sense. MOT shareholders are getting pounded and whoever among them is willing to keep waiting things out, won't be if drastic improvements aren't made in the next six months. This is how business words, bud. You either get your shareholders to buy into what you're doing, or you die.



    As for comparisons to Apple, there is noe comparison. When Apple was struggling and people were saying "they're going to die", they weren't losing .5 to 1+ billion dollars a QUARTER, were they? Motorola has taken two or three huge losses in a row. You can do all the math you want, but don't forget about shareholder psychology in all this. They are teetering on the brink, period.



    [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
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  • Reply 14 of 84
    nonsuchnonsuch Posts: 293member
    [quote]Originally posted by bunge:

    <strong>Within the past year Enron was considered the 7th largest company in the world.



    Whoops.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Enron was run by criminals. Motorola may have its problems, but I don't think corrupt management is one of them.



    That said, your point is sound: Motorola certainly could go bankrupt. It's not just their semiconductor business that's flagging; their cell phone business isn't doing that well either (or it wasn't; don't know about now).



    My concern is that, should Mot decide to drop the semiconductor unit and sell the PPC assets to Apple, they'd basically be in a position to ask whatever price they wanted; Apple is pretty much over a barrel and would have to peel off a pretty big slice of that cash pile, and investors would likely find that a cause for grave concern.
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  • Reply 15 of 84
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nonsuch:

    <strong>



    Enron was run by criminals. Motorola may have its problems, but I don't think corrupt management is one of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    All depends on how you define "corrupt". I'm not saying there aren't some great people there (there are, albeit very few of them from where I sat), but there are some pretty shakey characters there.



    If by corrupt you mean dishonest, the argument could be made that they are indeed run by corrupt individuals. If by corrupt you mean are they breaking trade laws or something similar, perhaps not...either way though they have dug themselves a huge hole and are showing little sign of meaningful change. Layoffs don't count for squat in my estimation (as far as shareholder confidence and such).
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  • Reply 16 of 84
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,500member
    With $4.4 billion in the bank, and the conditions of the AIM PPC agreement, I'm sure that Apple can ensure that PowerPC development (for its purposes) is properly funded going forward. There are probably any number of possible solutions (buying Moto's PPC division, contracting IBM, etc etc), but the fact that we haven't seen anything publicly most likely means that Apple (and SJ in particular) is satisfied with the progress being made at Motorola on the Apollo and G5 processors. Apple has a plan going forward -- despite what many people seem to think the company is not run by dummies. They have information we do not, they have motivations that we do not, they have liabilities that we do not, they have to deal with engineering & market realities that we (as speculators and rumour mongers) do not, and they know what they are actively doing while we do not. Apple plays its cards close to its chest, but its got a full hand and I'd count on seeing a couple of aces.



    As for Motorola, while these might be dark times many companies have survived worse. IBM in the mid-90s laid off more people than some cities have (upwards of 100,000), and now it is going great... to the point where everybody wants Apple to switch to IBM made chips. The ship isn't sunk, but it has taken on water and only time will tell if they are bailing fast enough. Think of Apple as hitched to a motor launch on the upper deck -- if the ship goes down Apple will just unhook the launch and take it on board.



    How's that for analogy gone too far?
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  • Reply 17 of 84
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    AS SUNKEN AS IN APPLE COULD BUYOUT THE PPC FROM MOT? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
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  • Reply 18 of 84
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    [quote]Originally posted by Macintosh:

    <strong>AS SUNKEN AS IN APPLE COULD BUYOUT THE PPC FROM MOT? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    THEY REALLY COULD.
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  • Reply 19 of 84
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 450member
    They may not be going completely down, but their capacity to produce processors is!!!



    <a href="http://http://news.com.com/2100-1033-820898.html"; target="_blank">news.com</a>



    [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>
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  • Reply 20 of 84
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    Everyone talks about Apple's 4.4 billion in the bank,, but consider this, without the interest from this $$, Apple has lost money for the last 3 quarters.



    If you don't believe me, look at their financials. You will see they reported operating losses before interest income & realized gains/(losses).



    Apple needs to increase sales, period. This is the only way to an operating profit. Once they've done this, then they can think about what to do with that 4.4 billion, since they would have real profits to work with.
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