There are plenty of Dvorak users around. But even if the iPhone had one, two-thumb typing would negate every advantage that Dvorak would normally offer, so it's not really an issue other than one of key location recollection for Dvorak users. iPad in landscape tho, I suppose is a different matter...
How exactly does one relate to the other? While it's true that the Dvorak layout is not as popular, that still doesn't change the fact that if you do learn the layout you can type significantly faster with much less fatigue and chance for repetitive injury.
It has nothing to do with Dvorak being "lame" or only for geeks. Nice red herring tho!
Perhaps the Dvorak layout would have caught on more if John C. Dvorak hadn't been such an asshole. I bet that deterred a lot of users...
The english speaking world does, yes. Go anywhere else, and the keyboard is either slightly different (western europe), quite different (eastern europe), or massively different (all parts of asia -- arabic, chinese, etc). In Mac OS X at least, there is support for dozens of keyboard languages that have fewer mac or iPhone users than there are english speaking dvorak users. Of course, OS X also has phenomenal dvorak support, built-in.
I use dvorak because I broke my wrist 5 years ago and am now prone to RSI... aka repetitive stress injuries. I had to have two surgeries to clear up carpal tunnel brought on by the trauma of the wrist injury. People do incredibly asinine things to mitigate RSI, like buying funky-shaped keyboards, wrist pads, etc. Guess what: the amount of time it takes to get used to Dvorak is less than the time it takes to get used to an "ergonomic" keyboard. Moreover, companies go out of their way to support the "disabled." This can't be profitable. Most Dvorak users I know did so because of RSI, and got hooked because it's so damn good. Supporting Dvorak thus benefits the "disabled" and probably makes profit. I can see this as being one of those things that Steve has axed because he's a complete douchebag -- that is his character. If Google releases a Dvorak layout on their phone, I'm going there.
I'm sorry, but this isn't logic. It's whiny justification based on one incredibly biased user experience. I'm very sorry for the trauma and difficulty that has fallen upon you, and I wish you only the best is coping with and overcoming all of the difficulties associated with being partially handicapped. But to suggest that other's should support one particular keyboard format or another based on what that style does for the handicapped, is a little whacked.
Anyone can use any keyboard format they like. All that matters is what you get used to, and how fast you need/want to type. Hell, voice recognition software is so good, people don't have to type at all if they don't want to.
There simply IS NO argument for or against any one format of keyboard. Use what you want, and get used to it. Then you can judge for yourself whether it's "good" or "not". Blanket statements that say one way or the other are worthless.
The english speaking world does, yes. Go anywhere else, and the keyboard is either slightly different (western europe), quite different (eastern europe), or massively different (all parts of asia -- arabic, chinese, etc). In Mac OS X at least, there is support for dozens of keyboard languages that have fewer mac or iPhone users than there are english speaking dvorak users. Of course, OS X also has phenomenal dvorak support, built-in.
I use dvorak because I broke my wrist 5 years ago and am now prone to RSI... aka repetitive stress injuries. I had to have two surgeries to clear up carpal tunnel brought on by the trauma of the wrist injury. People do incredibly asinine things to mitigate RSI, like buying funky-shaped keyboards, wrist pads, etc. Guess what: the amount of time it takes to get used to Dvorak is less than the time it takes to get used to an "ergonomic" keyboard. Moreover, companies go out of their way to support the "disabled." This can't be profitable. Most Dvorak users I know did so because of RSI, and got hooked because it's so damn good. Supporting Dvorak thus benefits the "disabled" and probably makes profit. I can see this as being one of those things that Steve has axed because he's a complete douchebag -- that is his character. If Google releases a Dvorak layout on their phone, I'm going there.
I think this "disabled" person would disagree with you.
I understand the advantage of Dvorak on a full size keyboard. Why would you care on a miniature keyboard such as that of an iPhone?
Perhaps because that's what he's used to using? Just a thought.
But since Spliney does use dvorak, I would think he'd be the first one to benefit from jailbreaking. If I used dvorak extensively, I'd jailbreak to get it.
Sure, but the significant value of a screen keyboard is the essentially frictionless ability to support alternate keyboards. The lack of a Dvorak keyboard alternative is an oversight that could be so easily corrected. Is there some obvious objection that everyone is missing?
And most of the world uses the Roman alphabet...doesn't stop them including Hebrew, Thai, Japanese and Greek amongst others.
Your point is entirely void. I can barely believe I wasted my time replying to it.
Surely you jest. Most of the world does not use the Roman alphabet. It is a very significant minority but it is dwarfed by the Asian and Indian languages. Part of the colonial heritage of the current world is that there are many who use a language with a Roman alphabet as a second (or third, etc) language. But that can change rather quickly.
I'm sorry, but this isn't logic. It's whiny justification based on one incredibly biased user experience. There simply IS NO argument for or against any one format of keyboard. Use what you want, and get used to it. Then you can judge for yourself whether it's "good" or "not". Blanket statements that say one way or the other are worthless.
Obviously, you lack nonlinear thinking skills, so I'll spell it out.
- The post is a vignette about why I use Dvorak.
- There were no blanket statements.
- There are many arguments to use one keyboard layout vs. another. Typing speed, typing accuracy, and ergonomic comfort are the reasons people tend to use Dvorak. Legacy is the reason people use Qwerty. Indeed, these can be framed into arguments. This is pretty simple.
The basic logic is that there are more than 100K dvorak users in the united states, and this should be enough to justify the development cost of a dvorak layout on the iPhone.
The ancillary logic is that, for all of the features that get put into OSes to serve the handicapped, there are probably more Dvorak users than handicapped users.
I apologize if I just caused a cranial hemorrhage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM
I understand the advantage of Dvorak on a full size keyboard. Why would you care on a miniature keyboard such as that of an iPhone?
Dvorak is set up to have frequent alternations, so it ends up being a lot faster for two-thumb typing. I've verified this on jailbroken iPhones
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomcookie1
I think this "disabled" person would disagree with you.
I'm glad this blind guy finds the iPad useful. I still would argue that the development effort to build a Dvorak keyboard on the iPhone is far, far less than the effort to build tools for the blind, and the addressable market for Dvorak is larger.
There are plenty of Dvorak users around. But even if the iPhone had one, two-thumb typing would negate every advantage that Dvorak would normally offer, so it's not really an issue other than one of key location recollection for Dvorak users. iPad in landscape tho, I suppose is a different matter...
If two thumb typing negates the usefulness of the Dvorak layout to Dvorak users, the same logic should apply to the QWERTY keyboard. Why, then, does the iPhone / iPad use a QWERTY layout instead of an ABC... layout?
Answer: because we don't have to relearn the positions of the keys.
Comments
The world uses Qwerty, sorry.
There are plenty of Dvorak users around. But even if the iPhone had one, two-thumb typing would negate every advantage that Dvorak would normally offer, so it's not really an issue other than one of key location recollection for Dvorak users. iPad in landscape tho, I suppose is a different matter...
- Folders are a welcomed addition
- Pairing with your bluetooth keyboard is pretty cool
- Turning off the cellular radio really improves battery life(no surprise)
- The calculator icon has received a facelift
- Integrated email is a pleasure
How exactly does one relate to the other? While it's true that the Dvorak layout is not as popular, that still doesn't change the fact that if you do learn the layout you can type significantly faster with much less fatigue and chance for repetitive injury.
It has nothing to do with Dvorak being "lame" or only for geeks. Nice red herring tho!
Perhaps the Dvorak layout would have caught on more if John C. Dvorak hadn't been such an asshole. I bet that deterred a lot of users...
The english speaking world does, yes. Go anywhere else, and the keyboard is either slightly different (western europe), quite different (eastern europe), or massively different (all parts of asia -- arabic, chinese, etc). In Mac OS X at least, there is support for dozens of keyboard languages that have fewer mac or iPhone users than there are english speaking dvorak users. Of course, OS X also has phenomenal dvorak support, built-in.
I use dvorak because I broke my wrist 5 years ago and am now prone to RSI... aka repetitive stress injuries. I had to have two surgeries to clear up carpal tunnel brought on by the trauma of the wrist injury. People do incredibly asinine things to mitigate RSI, like buying funky-shaped keyboards, wrist pads, etc. Guess what: the amount of time it takes to get used to Dvorak is less than the time it takes to get used to an "ergonomic" keyboard. Moreover, companies go out of their way to support the "disabled." This can't be profitable. Most Dvorak users I know did so because of RSI, and got hooked because it's so damn good. Supporting Dvorak thus benefits the "disabled" and probably makes profit. I can see this as being one of those things that Steve has axed because he's a complete douchebag -- that is his character. If Google releases a Dvorak layout on their phone, I'm going there.
I'm sorry, but this isn't logic. It's whiny justification based on one incredibly biased user experience. I'm very sorry for the trauma and difficulty that has fallen upon you, and I wish you only the best is coping with and overcoming all of the difficulties associated with being partially handicapped. But to suggest that other's should support one particular keyboard format or another based on what that style does for the handicapped, is a little whacked.
Anyone can use any keyboard format they like. All that matters is what you get used to, and how fast you need/want to type. Hell, voice recognition software is so good, people don't have to type at all if they don't want to.
There simply IS NO argument for or against any one format of keyboard. Use what you want, and get used to it. Then you can judge for yourself whether it's "good" or "not". Blanket statements that say one way or the other are worthless.
The english speaking world does, yes. Go anywhere else, and the keyboard is either slightly different (western europe), quite different (eastern europe), or massively different (all parts of asia -- arabic, chinese, etc). In Mac OS X at least, there is support for dozens of keyboard languages that have fewer mac or iPhone users than there are english speaking dvorak users. Of course, OS X also has phenomenal dvorak support, built-in.
I use dvorak because I broke my wrist 5 years ago and am now prone to RSI... aka repetitive stress injuries. I had to have two surgeries to clear up carpal tunnel brought on by the trauma of the wrist injury. People do incredibly asinine things to mitigate RSI, like buying funky-shaped keyboards, wrist pads, etc. Guess what: the amount of time it takes to get used to Dvorak is less than the time it takes to get used to an "ergonomic" keyboard. Moreover, companies go out of their way to support the "disabled." This can't be profitable. Most Dvorak users I know did so because of RSI, and got hooked because it's so damn good. Supporting Dvorak thus benefits the "disabled" and probably makes profit. I can see this as being one of those things that Steve has axed because he's a complete douchebag -- that is his character. If Google releases a Dvorak layout on their phone, I'm going there.
I think this "disabled" person would disagree with you.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ve.html?cat=15
All I really care about is the addition of a proper Dvorak keyboard.
I understand the advantage of Dvorak on a full size keyboard. Why would you care on a miniature keyboard such as that of an iPhone?
I understand the advantage of Dvorak on a full size keyboard. Why would you care on a miniature keyboard such as that of an iPhone?
Perhaps because that's what he's used to using? Just a thought.
But since Spliney does use dvorak, I would think he'd be the first one to benefit from jailbreaking. If I used dvorak extensively, I'd jailbreak to get it.
does 4.0 beta 2 allow for iTunes to backup or does it still throw the error?
Nope.
The world uses Qwerty, sorry.
And most of the world uses the Roman alphabet...doesn't stop them including Hebrew, Thai, Japanese and Greek amongst others.
Your point is entirely void. I can barely believe I wasted my time replying to it.
The world uses Qwerty, sorry.
Sure, but the significant value of a screen keyboard is the essentially frictionless ability to support alternate keyboards. The lack of a Dvorak keyboard alternative is an oversight that could be so easily corrected. Is there some obvious objection that everyone is missing?
And most of the world uses the Roman alphabet...doesn't stop them including Hebrew, Thai, Japanese and Greek amongst others.
Your point is entirely void. I can barely believe I wasted my time replying to it.
Surely you jest. Most of the world does not use the Roman alphabet. It is a very significant minority but it is dwarfed by the Asian and Indian languages. Part of the colonial heritage of the current world is that there are many who use a language with a Roman alphabet as a second (or third, etc) language. But that can change rather quickly.
I'm sorry, but this isn't logic. It's whiny justification based on one incredibly biased user experience. There simply IS NO argument for or against any one format of keyboard. Use what you want, and get used to it. Then you can judge for yourself whether it's "good" or "not". Blanket statements that say one way or the other are worthless.
Obviously, you lack nonlinear thinking skills, so I'll spell it out.
- The post is a vignette about why I use Dvorak.
- There were no blanket statements.
- There are many arguments to use one keyboard layout vs. another. Typing speed, typing accuracy, and ergonomic comfort are the reasons people tend to use Dvorak. Legacy is the reason people use Qwerty. Indeed, these can be framed into arguments. This is pretty simple.
The basic logic is that there are more than 100K dvorak users in the united states, and this should be enough to justify the development cost of a dvorak layout on the iPhone.
The ancillary logic is that, for all of the features that get put into OSes to serve the handicapped, there are probably more Dvorak users than handicapped users.
I apologize if I just caused a cranial hemorrhage.
I understand the advantage of Dvorak on a full size keyboard. Why would you care on a miniature keyboard such as that of an iPhone?
Dvorak is set up to have frequent alternations, so it ends up being a lot faster for two-thumb typing. I've verified this on jailbroken iPhones
I think this "disabled" person would disagree with you.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ve.html?cat=15
I'm glad this blind guy finds the iPad useful. I still would argue that the development effort to build a Dvorak keyboard on the iPhone is far, far less than the effort to build tools for the blind, and the addressable market for Dvorak is larger.
There are plenty of Dvorak users around. But even if the iPhone had one, two-thumb typing would negate every advantage that Dvorak would normally offer, so it's not really an issue other than one of key location recollection for Dvorak users. iPad in landscape tho, I suppose is a different matter...
If two thumb typing negates the usefulness of the Dvorak layout to Dvorak users, the same logic should apply to the QWERTY keyboard. Why, then, does the iPhone / iPad use a QWERTY layout instead of an ABC... layout?
Answer: because we don't have to relearn the positions of the keys.