Changes to Apple's developer agreement could spur antitrust inquiry

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  • Reply 201 of 208
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maximara View Post


    I am inclined to think this as well. The "person familiar with the matter" reads like the sort of drivel you would read in the days of yellow journalism. Remember the story came from the New York POST that Pace University in 2004 rated as the LEAST credible of the major New York papers and the ONLY one to get a "higher negative than positive rating on the credibility scale."



    The only way this report could be less reliable is if it came out of a freaking tabloid.



    How would you explain the other news outlets confirming the same story? Yes, you can dismiss it all as them trying to get ratings (you probably will). But this is one of those high-profile stories that they would all lose more than they would gain if they all did lie.



    It also involves the DoJ, FTC, Apple, and Adobe by name. If all of this was false, then wouldn't representatives of each come forward and make a statement saying so? The fact that the companies involved choose the "no comment" path means that they're trying to be careful of what they say, which means something's definitely up.
  • Reply 202 of 208
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    How would you explain the other news outlets confirming the same story?



    They are all citing a story first posted on The New York Post blog site, which backed up their source to, "(According to) a person familiar with the matter?"



    Unfortunately, bloggers don't have to comply with true journalism in which the media would not publish a story without first getting a confirmation from a second source. In this case, it doesn't even appear that there is any confirmation in the first place.
  • Reply 203 of 208
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    How would you explain the other news outlets confirming the same story? Yes, you can dismiss it all as them trying to get ratings (you probably will). But this is one of those high-profile stories that they would all lose more than they would gain if they all did lie.



    It also involves the DoJ, FTC, Apple, and Adobe by name. If all of this was false, then wouldn't representatives of each come forward and make a statement saying so? The fact that the companies involved choose the "no comment" path means that they're trying to be careful of what they say, which means something's definitely up.



    Exactly. I take it a lot of folks are unfamiliar with the way journalism works, the way it has always worked, when it does work. Many sources provide information off the record, meaning not for attribution. A journalist will generally not print information gathered this way unless someone else confirms it independently. The confirmation may well also be off the record. This is not "yellow" journalism, it is good journalism.



    I suppose I shouldn't wonder why something so basic has be explained, with the political drumbeat for the last 30 years being that the media can't be trusted because they report things we'd rather not know about.
  • Reply 204 of 208
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    I just started playing with the Flash app and the process of using it to develop and test apps on the iphone.



    Here are some thoughts:



    1) AFAIK, there is no way to test a Flash iPhone app in the iPhone simulator

    2) That means the Flash iPhone must have access to the iPhone SDK (at least for certificates and provisioning profiles)

    3) You compile and save the Flash program to an iPhone ipa file

    4) You drag or double-click to install the app in iTunes

    5) You synch your iPhone to install the app

    6) You may need to manual delete a prior version to get a new version to install

    7) that can be kludgey if you have more apps on the iPhone than can be shown on the display (160 programs)

    8) There is a remote debugger, but I haven't been able to get it to work

    9) When you start the app on the phone (with the debug code included) you must enter the IP address of the Computer running the Flash Debugger

    10) There doesn't appear to be any way to write or test an iPad app or universal app (even if Apple did allow Flash)

    11) The Flash iPhone app includes a SWF and an XML file

    12) It is not clear if this is just a regular Flash app (with all the downsides) running on the iPhone

    13) It doesn't appear that Flash uses the SDK at all (maybe under the covers)



    Steps 3-9 are rather cumbersome for the developer-- compared to a single-click to compile, install and debug with the SDK.



    At any given time, there are, likely two versions of the iPhone SDK-- the release version and the beta version of the next release.



    By using Flash instead of the SDK, the developer is putting himself at a disadvantage.



    Consider:



    -- SDK developers can code for new devices like the iPad or new iPhone before they become available

    -- SDK developers can develop test and debug their apps on beta code and have them ready to go when the release is made available

    -- Flash developers can only code for released devices (No simulator)

    -- Flash developers can only code for the released and supported (by Adobe) version of the iPhone OS

    -- Flash developers must wait until the hardware and software are officially released before they can even begin Testing

    -- As has been mentioned by others, Adobe [too] must wait for these official releases before they can update (if ever) the Flash IDE to make these new features and devices available to Flash developers.





    The following iis from one of the Flash CS5 help files:



    Quote:



    Some typical iPhone features that are not supported are:

    • Photo selection from file system

    • Contact selection from the address book

    • Camera

    • Cut/copy/paste

    • Accessory support

    • In app purchase support

    • Peer to peer

    • Maps

    • iPod library access

    • Compass

    • Push notifications

    • Audio recording

    • Video recording

    • Parental controls



    Of course because of the huge amount of work involved, and lack of public API access from Apple we have to drop a few Flash features too.



    • Embedded HTML content

    • RTMPE (this was our call)

    • H.264 Video (you can use URLRequest)

    • Dynamically loading SWFs (containing AS3 code)

    • PixelBender






    Finally, my overall impression of using the Flash development system was one of unease. The system appears slow and bloated:



    -- There are too many bits and pieces (download manager, install manager, application manager, Flash CS5, Air, Information (help)

    -- For example, I selected help, a dialog told me an update was available, clicked update-- some app hung the system for a while, then crashed

    -- The system reminded of Mac OS 9 (cooperative multitasking-- the Flash IDE would hang the system (2.8GHz Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM). I didn't see a lot of system activity, but it just seemed to hang

    -- When you click the Flash IDE "About Flash", it scrolled through a list of about 60 main developers... that concerns me

    -- What, with meetings and pre-meeting meetings, when do they find time to design, code, test and debug Flash?





    The packaging and interaction of the CS5 Suite makes the entirety appear like a poorly-constructed OS... the individual pieces (apps) may be OK, but the whole is less than the sum of its parts.





    Sigh?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post


    I just downloaded the flash cs5 trial from adobe.com, got a simple animation with critters running around. So I compiled it to the iPhone, it does not go through XCode but creates object files, assembly files during build time. It does create ARM code.



    I then copied the app and ran it to my iPhone and boy it was laggy. I rebooted and still was laggy around 10fps and stops for a few milliseconds in between. I launched Instruments to test CPU and app analysis. To my observation, there are way way too many libSystem.dylib calls just to draw one frame.



    As an iPhone developer, I never seen something so highly unoptimized even if is AOT compiled in arm.



    Also, the actual Flash IDE app is not well written. I have Geektool running polling for system.log and running Flash CS5 gives me tons of NSAutoreleasePool warnings every second. NSAutoreleasepool manages object memory/garbage collection and prevents memory leak. Now I know why adobe apps crashes upon quit!



  • Reply 205 of 208
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I just started playing with the Flash app and the process of using it to develop and test apps on the iphone.



    What other platforms can you output too? Thanks.
  • Reply 206 of 208
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post


    What other platforms can you output too? Thanks.



    Not really knowing much about current Flash, it appears that other platforms are supported with a generalized Flash Lite player:













    There's no equivalent "Custom Player Info" for Flash 10, and Flash 10.1 is not listed.

    .
  • Reply 207 of 208
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    They are all citing a story first posted on The New York Post blog site, which backed up their source to, "(According to) a person familiar with the matter?"



    Unfortunately, bloggers don't have to comply with true journalism in which the media would not publish a story without first getting a confirmation from a second source. In this case, it doesn't even appear that there is any confirmation in the first place.



    That much I understand. The blog sites love to repost things from each other. However, I still assert that all the named players in this issuing "no comment" to these sites looking to confirm the NYT story points to something definitely going on.



    If there truly is nothing going on, then saying so should result in no problems. Saying "no comment" pretty much equals "we can't discuss an on-going matter" in this case.
  • Reply 208 of 208
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maximara View Post


    I have to wonder why Apple even indicated Carbon would go 64 in the first place as there were three signs why this was a majorly bad idea.



    Because there is lots of pressure to provide as much backwards compatibility as possible, and with rosetta and other technologies they must have felt they could do it in a reasonable manner. Perhaps one of the many issues you pointed out finally stopped them, or someone finally made the executive decision to push things forward (how many more years of a carbon port of Photoshop would we have had to endure?).



    I vote the latter, but we may never know for sure.



    If I were to wildly speculate, I wouldn't be surprised if the flash/iPhone SDK discussions didn't spawn a pretty hard 10,000 foot view of where Apple was and where they wanted to be. The timeframe's are about right. Apple's focus is on customer experience, and poorly ported and supported code doesn't deliver on the best experience possible - even if it comes from Apple.



    Like I said, we will probably never know, but I think my speculation makes more sense than "Apple is out to get Adobe"
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