What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Crap apps can appear on either, a $100 brush doesn´t a artist make. A good artist can use any tool, the talent is in the hands, just that they are better with better tools.
This is not about quality, this is about the war on Flash. Because the process of abolishing Flash doesn´t improve the quality of crappy apps made according to Apple´s directions.
Apple should have never gotten into the App Store business and closed their devices, they should have made the devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead.
There are nearly 200,000 crap apps on the App Store, only a small portion are made by Flash, so how is Steve going to attempt to improve the quality of those apps?
Love Steve, but I smell sh*t and it stinks.
Thing is this, no one is forcing that developer to re-code their app for Apple's exclusive devices its the developers choice and desire to have their app on the exclusive devices henceforth they have to be willing to do what it takes to get it there. And with the exception of few apps, I highly question that lofty 70K price tag you used very few show 70K worth of development cost, and if they did spend that much maybe they should spend the whole 140K in 1 place and actually make a quality app period rather than the crap they are coming up with. Until recently you couldnt just write a desktop app for PC and easily port it to Mac, when Apple used the "classic OS9" & previous the app had to be written to specifically run on that OS. We can all also remember the past in System 7 when dev's were allowed to write and code whatever they wanted and access the full OS what a disaster it was with all the extensions, and how many "conflicts" that were constantly arising out of that. And no a "$100 brush" doesnt make an artist the talent is in the hands this is totally true, but without the BEST tools they cant do their BEST work, granted that work may still be crappy in the eyes of some or many I think Picasso's works are ugly as sin...but that's me....Apple is saying that the tools they have created to build the apps for the OS that THEY designed are the best because they are always up to date in their abilities to access the new API's & features and that they are designed so that they create an app without any extra layers between the user and the OS allowing the app to be produced without any secondary interpretation layer. That extra layer is equivalent to a guy putting on 2 condoms, sure he can still get the job done but it dont necessarily feel as good nor does he benefit from it, and in some cases it causes problems not thought about because the manufacturer didnt design them to be worn that way. You say they never should have got into the app store business and closed their devices....ok so who's going to host the store?? who's going to send out a notification badge when the app updates?? who's going to make sure that something isnt malware isnt being made to look like the best app out there?? Apples point in doing the store them-self is to provide a single source for their user base to go to in-order to get the full library of apps that are available and to be able to find them without looking for hours and to provide a singular place to have to enter in your payment info (im not sure i'd want every fly by night app dev having my info especially my credit card info) the point is to be seamless. You say "make their devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead"....1st that's an oxymoron, secondly if they restricted the OS more what would that accomplish other than having just as many people probably including yourself bitc*ing about how the devs cant access something controlled by the OS so they cant make the app do what it could/should do. It's not up to Steve to improve the quality of any app, that's the dev's responsibility, and the only way we can encourage them to is to not buy their app and to post reviews if we did how bad it sucks. I myself would like to see the app store have a user based system that caused apps to get removed from the store, each account can only vote 1x and each account requires a separate credit card with a unique "real name" so an app couldnt be spammed off the store. If Adobe wanted to do something that would just go back and say "na na :P" to Apple, then why dont they develop something that will allow an app created with Apples tools to convert it to the other platforms using flash??? It's Apple's product be it the phone/pod/pad they designed it & the OS that runs it, no one is making anyone buy it or develop for it, if someone doesnt like playing in the sandbox.....then dont.....people need to get over the "I want everything and I want it my way right now" attitude and learn that you have the choice to buy whatever device you like, they know the rules and limitations when they do and so do the people that dev for it....and if they dont like those rules and limitations then dont buy or dev for it, that's the best way to create change, vote with your dollar!!!
What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Right, and you came up with that detailed cost comparison in what way? Your own personal experience as a "real" software developer?
Reich has been really wrong on so many things that I can only guess that he either uses Apple products or he is a shareholder for him to make these statements.
Reich has been really wrong on so many things that I can only guess that he either uses Apple products or he is a shareholder for him to make these statements.
When you make statements like, please provide proof, so we can take your statement seriously.
Apple must allow developers to use Adobe flash technology to develop apps and when the iPhone OS is being upgraded and those apps may not be compatible due to various reasons, wait for Adobe to get their crap together and provide a solid update, as they have done for OSX.
Then Adobe are most probably crying to the powers that be because one BIG source of revenue has ben cut off by Apple. Adobe your software is not open standard, i.e., WE have to depend on you to provide solid updates and in the past your record has been lousy.
Get over it and move on, tell your CEO to man up and stop acting like cry baby.
Reich has been really wrong on so many things that I can only guess that he either uses Apple products or he is a shareholder for him to make these statements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul
When you make statements like, please provide proof, so we can take your statement seriously.
SpamSandwich is just giving an *opinion*, so no proof necessary. Even my nine year old knows the difference.
Why is Reich getting ink on Commerce Department material?
I also can presume Reich may have a balloon loan ready to blow up in his face... Unfortunately, the same financial instrument for government is call a Bond. Maybe he wants a way to be wipe out the bondholders' money, too...
What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Any developer that says that is either a clueless twit or below a knuckle dragging conservative in terms of brain power.
Anybody who has done any actual programing knows this statement is garbage.
The reason why Apple is so successful and able to exert 'economic power' over its so-called competitors is quite simple. Apple, and Jobs in particular, is just much smarter than the rabble they keep trouncing in the market place. Apple has a very clear and well focussed product design philosophy which covers both hardware, software and services. It maintains tight control over all aspects of design and implementation while adopting industry standards wherever possible. And customers, as opposed to techo geeks, really appreciate this strategy - hence they buy Apple products and create Apple's mythical 'economic power'. Where can I send by bill for this advice to the FTC?
The competition would be better off developing their platforms instead of bribing the press to tout their crap and the authorities to "investigate" apple.
Apple should have never gotten into the App Store business and closed their devices, they should have made the devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead.
Love Steve, but I smell sh*t and it stinks.
I respect your opinion, but bear in mind that it's just that, your opinion, which is negated by a landslide by the apparent facts here.
The FTC should instead investigate the terrorist Adobe for using its terror Flash bomb to crash Apple's system. Apple has been tolerating this terrorist for far too long and has finally decided to remove the Flash bomb. What's wrong with that? The FTC should set its priority right and not allow terrorists to create havoc.
Robert Reich may qualify as "genius", but his views on economic policy are ill-informed (not attempting to derail the thread, but Reich is the subject at hand).
Robert Reich may qualify as "genius", but his views on economic policy are ill-informed (not attempting to derail the thread, but Reich is the subject at hand).
Reich is NOT the real subject at hand, and you have tried to derail the thread.
Also ill-informed is your notion that national health care of some sort is unconstitutional.
Thing is this, no one is forcing that developer to re-code their app for Apple's exclusive devices its the developers choice and desire to have their app on the exclusive devices henceforth they have to be willing to do what it takes to get it there. And with the exception of few apps, I highly question that lofty 70K price tag you used very few show 70K worth of development cost, and if they did spend that much maybe they should spend the whole 140K in 1 place and actually make a quality app period rather than the crap they are coming up with. Until recently you couldnt just write a desktop app for PC and easily port it to Mac, when Apple used the "classic OS9" & previous the app had to be written to specifically run on that OS. We can all also remember the past in System 7 when dev's were allowed to write and code whatever they wanted and access the full OS what a disaster it was with all the extensions, and how many "conflicts" that were constantly arising out of that. And no a "$100 brush" doesnt make an artist the talent is in the hands this is totally true, but without the BEST tools they cant do their BEST work, granted that work may still be crappy in the eyes of some or many I think Picasso's works are ugly as sin...but that's me....Apple is saying that the tools they have created to build the apps for the OS that THEY designed are the best because they are always up to date in their abilities to access the new API's & features and that they are designed so that they create an app without any extra layers between the user and the OS allowing the app to be produced without any secondary interpretation layer. That extra layer is equivalent to a guy putting on 2 condoms, sure he can still get the job done but it dont necessarily feel as good nor does he benefit from it, and in some cases it causes problems not thought about because the manufacturer didnt design them to be worn that way. You say they never should have got into the app store business and closed their devices....ok so who's going to host the store?? who's going to send out a notification badge when the app updates?? who's going to make sure that something isnt malware isnt being made to look like the best app out there?? Apples point in doing the store them-self is to provide a single source for their user base to go to in-order to get the full library of apps that are available and to be able to find them without looking for hours and to provide a singular place to have to enter in your payment info (im not sure i'd want every fly by night app dev having my info especially my credit card info) the point is to be seamless. You say "make their devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead"....1st that's an oxymoron, secondly if they restricted the OS more what would that accomplish other than having just as many people probably including yourself bitc*ing about how the devs cant access something controlled by the OS so they cant make the app do what it could/should do. It's not up to Steve to improve the quality of any app, that's the dev's responsibility, and the only way we can encourage them to is to not buy their app and to post reviews if we did how bad it sucks. I myself would like to see the app store have a user based system that caused apps to get removed from the store, each account can only vote 1x and each account requires a separate credit card with a unique "real name" so an app couldnt be spammed off the store. If Adobe wanted to do something that would just go back and say "na na :P" to Apple, then why dont they develop something that will allow an app created with Apples tools to convert it to the other platforms using flash??? It's Apple's product be it the phone/pod/pad they designed it & the OS that runs it, no one is making anyone buy it or develop for it, if someone doesnt like playing in the sandbox.....then dont.....people need to get over the "I want everything and I want it my way right now" attitude and learn that you have the choice to buy whatever device you like, they know the rules and limitations when they do and so do the people that dev for it....and if they dont like those rules and limitations then dont buy or dev for it, that's the best way to create change, vote with your dollar!!!
You may have a lot of good stuff to say in this post .... too bad it's so unreadable I can't get through it .... try remembering that "paragraphs are your friend".
It seems bizarre that the FTC would investigate Apple, whose only "monopoly" is with regard to the content on the products they invent and market, on behalf of a company, Adobe, who have an actual monopoly on the software used to develop certain kinds of internet content. Sadly, so few judges have a good understanding of how computer technology works and so are likely to make rulings based on misinformation and misunderstanding.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This matter is a long, long way from having any judges involved. My understanding of the procedure is that complaints filed with the FTC must result in some investigation and response. This means the staff lawyers have to look over the evidence and make a recommendation to the commission. I predict that the FTC will boot this complaint to kingdom come.
Comments
What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Crap apps can appear on either, a $100 brush doesn´t a artist make. A good artist can use any tool, the talent is in the hands, just that they are better with better tools.
This is not about quality, this is about the war on Flash. Because the process of abolishing Flash doesn´t improve the quality of crappy apps made according to Apple´s directions.
Apple should have never gotten into the App Store business and closed their devices, they should have made the devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead.
There are nearly 200,000 crap apps on the App Store, only a small portion are made by Flash, so how is Steve going to attempt to improve the quality of those apps?
Love Steve, but I smell sh*t and it stinks.
Thing is this, no one is forcing that developer to re-code their app for Apple's exclusive devices its the developers choice and desire to have their app on the exclusive devices henceforth they have to be willing to do what it takes to get it there. And with the exception of few apps, I highly question that lofty 70K price tag you used very few show 70K worth of development cost, and if they did spend that much maybe they should spend the whole 140K in 1 place and actually make a quality app period rather than the crap they are coming up with. Until recently you couldnt just write a desktop app for PC and easily port it to Mac, when Apple used the "classic OS9" & previous the app had to be written to specifically run on that OS. We can all also remember the past in System 7 when dev's were allowed to write and code whatever they wanted and access the full OS what a disaster it was with all the extensions, and how many "conflicts" that were constantly arising out of that. And no a "$100 brush" doesnt make an artist the talent is in the hands this is totally true, but without the BEST tools they cant do their BEST work, granted that work may still be crappy in the eyes of some or many I think Picasso's works are ugly as sin...but that's me....Apple is saying that the tools they have created to build the apps for the OS that THEY designed are the best because they are always up to date in their abilities to access the new API's & features and that they are designed so that they create an app without any extra layers between the user and the OS allowing the app to be produced without any secondary interpretation layer. That extra layer is equivalent to a guy putting on 2 condoms, sure he can still get the job done but it dont necessarily feel as good nor does he benefit from it, and in some cases it causes problems not thought about because the manufacturer didnt design them to be worn that way. You say they never should have got into the app store business and closed their devices....ok so who's going to host the store?? who's going to send out a notification badge when the app updates?? who's going to make sure that something isnt malware isnt being made to look like the best app out there?? Apples point in doing the store them-self is to provide a single source for their user base to go to in-order to get the full library of apps that are available and to be able to find them without looking for hours and to provide a singular place to have to enter in your payment info (im not sure i'd want every fly by night app dev having my info especially my credit card info) the point is to be seamless. You say "make their devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead"....1st that's an oxymoron, secondly if they restricted the OS more what would that accomplish other than having just as many people probably including yourself bitc*ing about how the devs cant access something controlled by the OS so they cant make the app do what it could/should do. It's not up to Steve to improve the quality of any app, that's the dev's responsibility, and the only way we can encourage them to is to not buy their app and to post reviews if we did how bad it sucks. I myself would like to see the app store have a user based system that caused apps to get removed from the store, each account can only vote 1x and each account requires a separate credit card with a unique "real name" so an app couldnt be spammed off the store. If Adobe wanted to do something that would just go back and say "na na :P" to Apple, then why dont they develop something that will allow an app created with Apples tools to convert it to the other platforms using flash??? It's Apple's product be it the phone/pod/pad they designed it & the OS that runs it, no one is making anyone buy it or develop for it, if someone doesnt like playing in the sandbox.....then dont.....people need to get over the "I want everything and I want it my way right now" attitude and learn that you have the choice to buy whatever device you like, they know the rules and limitations when they do and so do the people that dev for it....and if they dont like those rules and limitations then dont buy or dev for it, that's the best way to create change, vote with your dollar!!!
What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Right, and you came up with that detailed cost comparison in what way? Your own personal experience as a "real" software developer?
Reich has been really wrong on so many things that I can only guess that he either uses Apple products or he is a shareholder for him to make these statements.
When you make statements like, please provide proof, so we can take your statement seriously.
Apple must allow developers to use Adobe flash technology to develop apps and when the iPhone OS is being upgraded and those apps may not be compatible due to various reasons, wait for Adobe to get their crap together and provide a solid update, as they have done for OSX.
Then Adobe are most probably crying to the powers that be because one BIG source of revenue has ben cut off by Apple. Adobe your software is not open standard, i.e., WE have to depend on you to provide solid updates and in the past your record has been lousy.
Get over it and move on, tell your CEO to man up and stop acting like cry baby.
Reich has been really wrong on so many things that I can only guess that he either uses Apple products or he is a shareholder for him to make these statements.
When you make statements like, please provide proof, so we can take your statement seriously.
SpamSandwich is just giving an *opinion*, so no proof necessary. Even my nine year old knows the difference.
Why is Reich getting ink on Commerce Department material?
I also can presume Reich may have a balloon loan ready to blow up in his face...
SpamSandwich is just giving an *opinion*, so no proof necessary. Even my nine year old knows the difference.
I couldn't have said it any better.
What developers says is that if it costs $70,000 to develop a app for most all platforms, it costs another $70,000 to recode it for Apple´s exclusive devices.
Any developer that says that is either a clueless twit or below a knuckle dragging conservative in terms of brain power.
Anybody who has done any actual programing knows this statement is garbage.
This is correct. So if the FTC isn't the one who polices the banks, who does? Only FDIC?
FDIC or in the case of banks with National in the name the OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency)
I wonder if his old friend Al Gore drew his attention to the issue, after Steve drew Al's?
The competition would be better off developing their platforms instead of bribing the press to tout their crap and the authorities to "investigate" apple.
Apple should have never gotten into the App Store business and closed their devices, they should have made the devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead.
Love Steve, but I smell sh*t and it stinks.
I respect your opinion, but bear in mind that it's just that, your opinion, which is negated by a landslide by the apparent facts here.
Awesome, always liked him.
Robert Reich may qualify as "genius", but his views on economic policy are ill-informed (not attempting to derail the thread, but Reich is the subject at hand).
Robert Reich may qualify as "genius", but his views on economic policy are ill-informed (not attempting to derail the thread, but Reich is the subject at hand).
Reich is NOT the real subject at hand, and you have tried to derail the thread.
Also ill-informed is your notion that national health care of some sort is unconstitutional.
Thing is this, no one is forcing that developer to re-code their app for Apple's exclusive devices its the developers choice and desire to have their app on the exclusive devices henceforth they have to be willing to do what it takes to get it there. And with the exception of few apps, I highly question that lofty 70K price tag you used very few show 70K worth of development cost, and if they did spend that much maybe they should spend the whole 140K in 1 place and actually make a quality app period rather than the crap they are coming up with. Until recently you couldnt just write a desktop app for PC and easily port it to Mac, when Apple used the "classic OS9" & previous the app had to be written to specifically run on that OS. We can all also remember the past in System 7 when dev's were allowed to write and code whatever they wanted and access the full OS what a disaster it was with all the extensions, and how many "conflicts" that were constantly arising out of that. And no a "$100 brush" doesnt make an artist the talent is in the hands this is totally true, but without the BEST tools they cant do their BEST work, granted that work may still be crappy in the eyes of some or many I think Picasso's works are ugly as sin...but that's me....Apple is saying that the tools they have created to build the apps for the OS that THEY designed are the best because they are always up to date in their abilities to access the new API's & features and that they are designed so that they create an app without any extra layers between the user and the OS allowing the app to be produced without any secondary interpretation layer. That extra layer is equivalent to a guy putting on 2 condoms, sure he can still get the job done but it dont necessarily feel as good nor does he benefit from it, and in some cases it causes problems not thought about because the manufacturer didnt design them to be worn that way. You say they never should have got into the app store business and closed their devices....ok so who's going to host the store?? who's going to send out a notification badge when the app updates?? who's going to make sure that something isnt malware isnt being made to look like the best app out there?? Apples point in doing the store them-self is to provide a single source for their user base to go to in-order to get the full library of apps that are available and to be able to find them without looking for hours and to provide a singular place to have to enter in your payment info (im not sure i'd want every fly by night app dev having my info especially my credit card info) the point is to be seamless. You say "make their devices open and restrict things in the iPhone OS instead"....1st that's an oxymoron, secondly if they restricted the OS more what would that accomplish other than having just as many people probably including yourself bitc*ing about how the devs cant access something controlled by the OS so they cant make the app do what it could/should do. It's not up to Steve to improve the quality of any app, that's the dev's responsibility, and the only way we can encourage them to is to not buy their app and to post reviews if we did how bad it sucks. I myself would like to see the app store have a user based system that caused apps to get removed from the store, each account can only vote 1x and each account requires a separate credit card with a unique "real name" so an app couldnt be spammed off the store. If Adobe wanted to do something that would just go back and say "na na :P" to Apple, then why dont they develop something that will allow an app created with Apples tools to convert it to the other platforms using flash??? It's Apple's product be it the phone/pod/pad they designed it & the OS that runs it, no one is making anyone buy it or develop for it, if someone doesnt like playing in the sandbox.....then dont.....people need to get over the "I want everything and I want it my way right now" attitude and learn that you have the choice to buy whatever device you like, they know the rules and limitations when they do and so do the people that dev for it....and if they dont like those rules and limitations then dont buy or dev for it, that's the best way to create change, vote with your dollar!!!
You may have a lot of good stuff to say in this post .... too bad it's so unreadable I can't get through it .... try remembering that "paragraphs are your friend".
Love Steve, but I smell sh*t and it stinks.
Try checking your underwear.
It seems bizarre that the FTC would investigate Apple, whose only "monopoly" is with regard to the content on the products they invent and market, on behalf of a company, Adobe, who have an actual monopoly on the software used to develop certain kinds of internet content. Sadly, so few judges have a good understanding of how computer technology works and so are likely to make rulings based on misinformation and misunderstanding.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This matter is a long, long way from having any judges involved. My understanding of the procedure is that complaints filed with the FTC must result in some investigation and response. This means the staff lawyers have to look over the evidence and make a recommendation to the commission. I predict that the FTC will boot this complaint to kingdom come.