Exactly. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apples. I sure hope if I lose my iPhone and someone finds it they do not drop it in the mail to Stevie.
So, help me understand this. You're arguing that they didn't know it was an Apple iPhone prototype?
You guys are too much. As much as I love Apple products and consider SJ a uber genius. He can also be an arrogant a-hole at times. But it seems like SJ gets a pass by you guys. Giz had a story worth a million lost iPhones and nothing SJ would've offered them could equal that. A lil jail time isn't always bad for business, just ask Martha Stewart or Steve Madden. I say bravo to Giz for giving SJ a big F U.
Or maybe proof of ownership. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apple's. If I lost my iPhone and someone found it and someone other than me tried to claim it I would hope the person who had it would ask for some kind of proof it was theirs and not just hand it over because they said it was, blackmail funny.
Asking for a request in writing doesn't PROVE ownership of anything! And exactly WHY would Steve Jobs ask for a fake iPhone back as if it were real. That would cause more harm to Apple and would land them in legal trouble because they would then be in possession of stolen property. Stop putting forth spurious examples to back up an argument that makes no sense from the start. Like Apple needs to STEAL a phone that doesn't even WORK. RIIIIGHT...
It's not blackmail, but it IS a move whose main purpose is to serve Gizmodo's needs as the full disclosed email to Steve Jobs shows.
"Hey Steve, this email chain is off record on my side.
I understand the position you?re in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that ? from you or apple legal ? is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc."
You guys are too much. As much as I love Apple products and consider SJ a uber genius. He can also be an arrogant a-hole at times. But it seems like SJ gets a pass by you guys. Giz had a story worth a million lost iPhones and nothing SJ would've offered them could equal that. A lil jail time isn't always bad for business, just ask Martha Stewart or Steve Madden. I say bravo to Giz for giving SJ a big F U.
you must've missed Jason's email to Apple begging them to give Giz better coverage, and literally giving SJ a virtual bj.
People here a making a lot of noise about the timing of the call by Steve Jobs asking for the phone back. People here are making a lot of noise about the fact that SJ had to prove it was his phone.
I think everyone is forgetting that Gizmodo already admitted they knew the owner. In the original (and all actually) article Gizmodo posted showing the prototype, they state that this IS the new iPhone, that this IS the prototype. I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like an acknowledgement. They did not need proof as to whose phone this was. They stated in the very first article that it was an Apple prototype phone lost by an Apple engineer named Gray Powell.
This is an admission.
They knew what they were buying and Hogans statement that he was going to get another $5000 from Gizmodo after the 4G release, doubly damns them.
I am all for press freedom but this is abuse of such right.
CGC
Yeah, it's actually funny to say 'freedom of the press' when it's a matter of buying stolen property. What's the problem then with Giz just breaking into Apple's campus and taking it - the people have a right to know! Sure, the people are curious, but WTF, this wasn't like he needed to do it to expose that Soylent Green is people or something.
I guess it's for the site hits, but damn, really really crappy way to treat other people 'outing' the engineer who lost it for NO actual news value - and simultaneously demonstrating that they knew who it belonged to and could have returned it. I guess in this case what goes around comes around.
"And I want to work closer with Apple, too. I?m not asking for more access ? we can do our jobs with or without it ? but again, this is the only way we can survive while being cut out of things. That?s my position on things."
I can either get more inside access, or, you know, accidents like this may happen. And I'd hate to see anything happen to your lovely family. Me and my boys just want you to know where we're coming from - it's a dangerous world.
Then I guess every lost in found in the country is guilty of extortion then. Last time I went to a lost and found and asked for something I lost, I had to be able to prove that it was mine.
I guess I should have asked for everything in the lost and found, and when they refused to give it to me, have the clerk arrested for extortion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
Exactly. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apples. I sure hope if I lose my iPhone and someone finds it they do not drop it in the mail to Stevie.
There's a huge difference. This was recognized as an Apple prototype phone. It was also recognized right away that it belonged to an engineer at Apple. The CEO of Apple calls and asks for the phone back. At that point, there's more than enough proof that the phone belongs to Apple.
Now, if he had said "I need to know that it's really you, so I'll drive over to Apple HQ and deliver the phone in person to you", then that would not have been reasonable. Insisting on a letter from Legal is extreme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
You guys are too much. As much as I love Apple products and consider SJ a uber genius. He can also be an arrogant a-hole at times. But it seems like SJ gets a pass by you guys. Giz had a story worth a million lost iPhones and nothing SJ would've offered them could equal that. A lil jail time isn't always bad for business, just ask Martha Stewart or Steve Madden. I say bravo to Giz for giving SJ a big F U.
Sorry, I'm not going to justify criminal activity in order to gain a story. Where do you draw the line? Would it have been OK for them to steal the phone out of the engineer's pocket? Maybe break into his car or home and steal the phone? Or why not bypass the middleman and break into Apple's HQ?
Or, heck, why not kidnap Steve Jobs and say that they're not returning him until Apple gives them ALL the prototypes they're working on.
The law specifically doesn't allow for criminal activity in pursuit of a story. Nor should it.
1) And rolling over for some 2 bit stolen property fencers would be WAY worse for their image and ability to protect their intellectual property.
2) Are you f***ing nuts? I don't know ANYONE who's considering buying before June now, including myself.
3) You overestimate the degree to which the public is conscious of Apple's release cycles, as obvious as it is we who follow such trivia. But I may have upgraded now, thinking that new features don't outweigh my ability to get value between now and then, but if I know that, say, there's for sure a front facing camera that I really want, then I'm definitely holding off my purchase.
Finally, Apple lost more than 2 months lead time over competitors. In this industry, that's an enormous amount of time.
(You should watch your language.)
Obviously you think that the average iPhone buyer is stupid and uninformed, but that's your wont.
If you think that two months is what matters from the standpoint of value creation from the life cycle of a fourth generation product, you don't know much about value creation.
There's a huge difference. This was recognized as an Apple prototype phone. It was also recognized right away that it belonged to an engineer at Apple. The CEO of Apple calls and asks for the phone back. At that point, there's more than enough proof that the phone belongs to Apple.
I was responding to the apparent blanket statements of a couple of posters that asking for proof of ownership is extortion, and it is not.
The request for the letter undoubtably served multiple purposes, but at the time the request was made, it was probably a reasonble thing to do to try and cover their butts.
Okay, first off anyone who thinks that this information getting released did not cost Apple a heck of a lot more than the retail value of an already released phone can't possibly have even two brain cells to rub together.
If you were on Apple's board and suggested that, I'd fire your ass so fast you wouldn't even have time to see it coming. Apple HAS NO CHOICE but to deal with this very harshly or everyone and their dog will consider it open season on Apple's intellectual property. The HAVE to.
You'd 'fire [my] ass' if I were on your board!?
Who'd be you? SJ?
Don't know much about how a modern corporation functions today, do you? (Hint: you should probably have thought about it before you put me on the board).
I don't think there will be any long term damage to Apple's reputation from pursuing this, and I think the long term benefits outweigh the cost by sending a message that you can't just do this and expect there to not be consequences. Not pursuing it would send the opposite message -- i.e., that Apple is fair game and you can get away with anything. The media will end up looking self-serving, to their own detriment. And I think most people -- the ones who don't visit AI -- will likely see the very real difference between "reporters" engaging in industrial espionage, where there is no compelling public interest served, and reporters investigating issues like public corruption.
These are very thoughtful points. I agree that Apple is in a bit of a bind here: to do nothing would create it's own issues, as would doing something.
I am simply coming out on one side of this, suggesting that in the long run, this amounts to a hill of beans, and that Apple has the opportunity to take the high road here.
Don't know much about how a modern corporation functions today, do you? (Hint: you should probably have thought about it before you put me on the board).
Hey I don't like everything that Apple does, especially lately. They are getting a bit heavy-handed. That said, they absolutely have no choice on this one. If they let this kind of stuff slide it will happen all of the time.
Their engineer screwed up (it appears). But it was an honest mistake. Hogan, his buddy and Gizmodo's actions were anything but. They're in deep sh*t.
Hey I don't like everything that Apple does, especially lately. They are getting a bit heavy-handed. That said, they absolutely have no choice on this one. If they let this kind of stuff slide it will happen all of the time.
Their engineer screwed up (it appears). But it was an honest mistake. Hogan, his buddy and Gizmodo's actions were anything but. They're in deep sh*t.
I doubt they are in deep shit. Stolen property at best.
As to the rest, Apple is very predictable in their release cycles, and there is always lots of press. I don't have the sales figures, but they are probably available, and I willing to bet that Apple sees a drop in sales in the April-May time frame because of the impending new model that regularly occurs in the June/July time frame. So I doubt they lost many sales because of this.
They did not lose anything to their competitors really. The initial iPhone was revolutionary, but subsequent models have not been (processor and memory bumps mostly). The press has been speculating on the new model, and predicted the new chip. So, the competition probably had a good idea what was coming. Besides, I would not think 2 months is long enough to design a phone, optimize the OS, and get it into production.
I am not a lawyer, but I would not think that Apple would have much of a case for revealing trade secrets, as the engineer took it out of Apple and into the wild so to speak. It is forseeable that the phone might be lost and thus I would not think that Apple would have much of an expectation of maintaining secrecy once it left the campus.
Comments
Exactly. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apples. I sure hope if I lose my iPhone and someone finds it they do not drop it in the mail to Stevie.
So, help me understand this. You're arguing that they didn't know it was an Apple iPhone prototype?
What site? The only people to report on the direct contact with Apple was Gizmodo, who never once reported that Steve Jobs personally called them.
I don't get why people (aka you) feel the need to make stuff up.
Daniel Lyons reported it in Newsweek.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/237186/page/2
"But on the day the story ran, Jobs himself called Gizmodo editor Brian Lam and demanded Gizmodo return the phone. "
Or maybe proof of ownership. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apple's. If I lost my iPhone and someone found it and someone other than me tried to claim it I would hope the person who had it would ask for some kind of proof it was theirs and not just hand it over because they said it was, blackmail funny.
Asking for a request in writing doesn't PROVE ownership of anything! And exactly WHY would Steve Jobs ask for a fake iPhone back as if it were real. That would cause more harm to Apple and would land them in legal trouble because they would then be in possession of stolen property. Stop putting forth spurious examples to back up an argument that makes no sense from the start. Like Apple needs to STEAL a phone that doesn't even WORK. RIIIIGHT...
It's not blackmail, but it IS a move whose main purpose is to serve Gizmodo's needs as the full disclosed email to Steve Jobs shows.
EXCERPT from http://jsnell.intertext.com/post/599...-in-journalism:
"Hey Steve, this email chain is off record on my side.
I understand the position you?re in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that ? from you or apple legal ? is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc."
You guys are too much. As much as I love Apple products and consider SJ a uber genius. He can also be an arrogant a-hole at times. But it seems like SJ gets a pass by you guys. Giz had a story worth a million lost iPhones and nothing SJ would've offered them could equal that. A lil jail time isn't always bad for business, just ask Martha Stewart or Steve Madden. I say bravo to Giz for giving SJ a big F U.
you must've missed Jason's email to Apple begging them to give Giz better coverage, and literally giving SJ a virtual bj.
... I went to law school!
.
Is OK
We Understand
It can happen in the Best of Families
.
you must've missed Jason's email to Apple begging them to give Giz better coverage, and literally giving SJ a virtual bj.
I guess I did, but one does need to strike out with the prettiest girl first before calling her a *unt
And when the Dust has Settled on this Entire Story ?
.
Will make a Great Episode for Patrick Jane
Complete with trips to Silly Cone Valley
.
"Pick a prototype, any prototype, and I'll tell you which one is real"
.
I think everyone is forgetting that Gizmodo already admitted they knew the owner. In the original (and all actually) article Gizmodo posted showing the prototype, they state that this IS the new iPhone, that this IS the prototype. I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like an acknowledgement. They did not need proof as to whose phone this was. They stated in the very first article that it was an Apple prototype phone lost by an Apple engineer named Gray Powell.
This is an admission.
They knew what they were buying and Hogans statement that he was going to get another $5000 from Gizmodo after the 4G release, doubly damns them.
I am all for press freedom but this is abuse of such right.
CGC
Yeah, it's actually funny to say 'freedom of the press' when it's a matter of buying stolen property. What's the problem then with Giz just breaking into Apple's campus and taking it - the people have a right to know! Sure, the people are curious, but WTF, this wasn't like he needed to do it to expose that Soylent Green is people or something.
I guess it's for the site hits, but damn, really really crappy way to treat other people 'outing' the engineer who lost it for NO actual news value - and simultaneously demonstrating that they knew who it belonged to and could have returned it. I guess in this case what goes around comes around.
I can either get more inside access, or, you know, accidents like this may happen. And I'd hate to see anything happen to your lovely family. Me and my boys just want you to know where we're coming from - it's a dangerous world.
Well played. (Insert Borat length pause... Not.)
Then I guess every lost in found in the country is guilty of extortion then. Last time I went to a lost and found and asked for something I lost, I had to be able to prove that it was mine.
I guess I should have asked for everything in the lost and found, and when they refused to give it to me, have the clerk arrested for extortion.
Exactly. Just because it has an Apple logo on it doesn't make it Apples. I sure hope if I lose my iPhone and someone finds it they do not drop it in the mail to Stevie.
There's a huge difference. This was recognized as an Apple prototype phone. It was also recognized right away that it belonged to an engineer at Apple. The CEO of Apple calls and asks for the phone back. At that point, there's more than enough proof that the phone belongs to Apple.
Now, if he had said "I need to know that it's really you, so I'll drive over to Apple HQ and deliver the phone in person to you", then that would not have been reasonable. Insisting on a letter from Legal is extreme.
You guys are too much. As much as I love Apple products and consider SJ a uber genius. He can also be an arrogant a-hole at times. But it seems like SJ gets a pass by you guys. Giz had a story worth a million lost iPhones and nothing SJ would've offered them could equal that. A lil jail time isn't always bad for business, just ask Martha Stewart or Steve Madden. I say bravo to Giz for giving SJ a big F U.
Sorry, I'm not going to justify criminal activity in order to gain a story. Where do you draw the line? Would it have been OK for them to steal the phone out of the engineer's pocket? Maybe break into his car or home and steal the phone? Or why not bypass the middleman and break into Apple's HQ?
Or, heck, why not kidnap Steve Jobs and say that they're not returning him until Apple gives them ALL the prototypes they're working on.
The law specifically doesn't allow for criminal activity in pursuit of a story. Nor should it.
Much as I like and admire the guy, Jobs is not law enforcement.
I cant stand the guy - who the fuck does he think he is?
1) And rolling over for some 2 bit stolen property fencers would be WAY worse for their image and ability to protect their intellectual property.
2) Are you f***ing nuts? I don't know ANYONE who's considering buying before June now, including myself.
3) You overestimate the degree to which the public is conscious of Apple's release cycles, as obvious as it is we who follow such trivia. But I may have upgraded now, thinking that new features don't outweigh my ability to get value between now and then, but if I know that, say, there's for sure a front facing camera that I really want, then I'm definitely holding off my purchase.
Finally, Apple lost more than 2 months lead time over competitors. In this industry, that's an enormous amount of time.
(You should watch your language.)
Obviously you think that the average iPhone buyer is stupid and uninformed, but that's your wont.
If you think that two months is what matters from the standpoint of value creation from the life cycle of a fourth generation product, you don't know much about value creation.
You must work in the hedge fund industry.
There's a huge difference. This was recognized as an Apple prototype phone. It was also recognized right away that it belonged to an engineer at Apple. The CEO of Apple calls and asks for the phone back. At that point, there's more than enough proof that the phone belongs to Apple.
I was responding to the apparent blanket statements of a couple of posters that asking for proof of ownership is extortion, and it is not.
The request for the letter undoubtably served multiple purposes, but at the time the request was made, it was probably a reasonble thing to do to try and cover their butts.
I did read what you wrote. You called Gizmodo inconsequential. Gizmodo became 'consequential' because of the theft.
"My appendix is inconsequential. But my appendectomy made it become consequential for me (even though the rest of the world could care less)."
Okay, first off anyone who thinks that this information getting released did not cost Apple a heck of a lot more than the retail value of an already released phone can't possibly have even two brain cells to rub together.
If you were on Apple's board and suggested that, I'd fire your ass so fast you wouldn't even have time to see it coming. Apple HAS NO CHOICE but to deal with this very harshly or everyone and their dog will consider it open season on Apple's intellectual property. The HAVE to.
You'd 'fire [my] ass' if I were on your board!?
Who'd be you? SJ?
Don't know much about how a modern corporation functions today, do you? (Hint: you should probably have thought about it before you put me on the board).
I don't think there will be any long term damage to Apple's reputation from pursuing this, and I think the long term benefits outweigh the cost by sending a message that you can't just do this and expect there to not be consequences. Not pursuing it would send the opposite message -- i.e., that Apple is fair game and you can get away with anything. The media will end up looking self-serving, to their own detriment. And I think most people -- the ones who don't visit AI -- will likely see the very real difference between "reporters" engaging in industrial espionage, where there is no compelling public interest served, and reporters investigating issues like public corruption.
These are very thoughtful points. I agree that Apple is in a bit of a bind here: to do nothing would create it's own issues, as would doing something.
I am simply coming out on one side of this, suggesting that in the long run, this amounts to a hill of beans, and that Apple has the opportunity to take the high road here.
You'd 'fire [my] ass' if I were on your board!?
Who'd be you? SJ?
Don't know much about how a modern corporation functions today, do you? (Hint: you should probably have thought about it before you put me on the board).
Hey I don't like everything that Apple does, especially lately. They are getting a bit heavy-handed. That said, they absolutely have no choice on this one. If they let this kind of stuff slide it will happen all of the time.
Their engineer screwed up (it appears). But it was an honest mistake. Hogan, his buddy and Gizmodo's actions were anything but. They're in deep sh*t.
Hey I don't like everything that Apple does, especially lately. They are getting a bit heavy-handed. That said, they absolutely have no choice on this one. If they let this kind of stuff slide it will happen all of the time.
Their engineer screwed up (it appears). But it was an honest mistake. Hogan, his buddy and Gizmodo's actions were anything but. They're in deep sh*t.
I doubt they are in deep shit. Stolen property at best.
As to the rest, Apple is very predictable in their release cycles, and there is always lots of press. I don't have the sales figures, but they are probably available, and I willing to bet that Apple sees a drop in sales in the April-May time frame because of the impending new model that regularly occurs in the June/July time frame. So I doubt they lost many sales because of this.
They did not lose anything to their competitors really. The initial iPhone was revolutionary, but subsequent models have not been (processor and memory bumps mostly). The press has been speculating on the new model, and predicted the new chip. So, the competition probably had a good idea what was coming. Besides, I would not think 2 months is long enough to design a phone, optimize the OS, and get it into production.
I am not a lawyer, but I would not think that Apple would have much of a case for revealing trade secrets, as the engineer took it out of Apple and into the wild so to speak. It is forseeable that the phone might be lost and thus I would not think that Apple would have much of an expectation of maintaining secrecy once it left the campus.
Just my 2 cents