How can anyone say with any degree of accuracy that AT&T gained no customers because of the iPhone. The results of the past three years simply don't support that.
Before the iPhone, Verizon was growing faster and had less churn than AT&T. Now AT&T is growing faster and has less churn than Verizon. What exactly has changed? It certainly is not the perception of AT&T's service being better than Verizon's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd
The last Strand report on cell phone market share showed that AT&T gained no market share from offering the iPhone. It might have prevented them from losing customers because of their service but not gaining customers.
He said he wanted 1% of the mobile phone market share. Exactly how is 1% being overly concerned about market share?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
If Apple doesn't care about market share, then why did Steve Jobs mention it in the original iPhone announcement, and why does he mention it during his other announcements?
That first quarter that you couldn't find an iPhone anywhere. They literally had stopped producing them sometime before April. It shows it was up 166% but remember that they only sold the original iPhone for a weekend before that quarter ended.
I recall this vividly because even though the 3G iPhone was imminent for release in July I (and many others, included NasserAE) were able to sell their original iPhone for more than retail price.
edit: It looks like it was Friday after 5pm sales and all of Saturday before that quarter ended.
You are correct. But doesn't it show the genius of Apple to release for just a couple of days so they know they could easily beat it the next year.
Of course, they didn't know then that the following year, they'd not be making any.
If Apple doesn't care about market share, then why did Steve Jobs mention it in the original iPhone announcement, and why does he mention it during his other announcements?
Does saying that you want to get just 1% of the market really show that you're interested in market share? In any case, the key metric was 10m units, which Apple called 1% (10m was actually less than 1%, even when he said it.)
He rarely mentions "share" directly when talking iPhone or iPod touch. Rather he says things like how many iPhone units were sold, how Apple is the number 1 mobile company by revenue, how Apple sold more than RIM, etc.
But I'm sure that as soon as Apple has more market share than any other phone maker, they'll be sure to mention it.
I believe Verizon has just done something really stupid that is going to greatly move people over to ATT.
It looks like someone in Verizon got the bright idea to force users to get a data plan on most of their phones including ones often used by teens simply for voice and text. Verizon has about 50 phones they off and now 38 of them requirea data plan of either 9.99 or 29.99.
Are you sure? Isn't it just for "smartphones"? Phones that have 3G, Wifi and full browser?
I think AT&T also requires all smartphones to have a $30 plan.
He said he wanted 1% of the mobile phone market share. Exactly how is 1% being overly concerned about market share?
So I was just mistaken when Steve discussed Market Share in the iPhone OS 4 presentation he gave? And I was even more mistaken when he used the US browser share data to present his market share? So Apple doesn't discuss market share, but they use one statistic to make their market share look higher. Ok, I am sorry, you must be right.
He rarely mentions "share" directly when talking iPhone or iPod touch. Rather he says things like how many iPhone units were sold, how Apple is the number 1 mobile company by revenue, how Apple sold more than RIM, etc.
But I'm sure that as soon as Apple has more market share than any other phone maker, they'll be sure to mention it.
As I have said posted, he does mention it, maybe you have a selective memory?
As I have said posted, he does mention it, maybe you have a selective memory?
Or maybe you have a logic deficiency. The mention of marketshare when it suits their marketing needs does mean that their goal is marketshare. Their goal is profits within a specific market. If that also gets them more marketshare, great, but they are not focusing on marketshare as their goal or they'd be licensing Mac OS X to other OEMs, selling $250 netbooks and selling iPhone dumb phones.
Or maybe you have a logic deficiency. The mention of marketshare when it suits their marketing needs does mean that their goal is marketshare. Their goal is profits within a specific market. If that also gets them more marketshare, great, but they are not focusing on marketshare as their goal or they'd be licensing Mac OS X to other OEMs, selling $250 netbooks and selling iPhone dumb phones.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
Increasing market share is the result of Apple's success, yet market share is not what drives Apple. Apple is all about delivering a unique product / experience that works and that is profitable for Apple.
Are you sure? Isn't it just for "smartphones"? Phones that have 3G, Wifi and full browser?
I think AT&T also requires all smartphones to have a $30 plan.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Verizon created three catagories of phones. The first is 3G Smartphones which require a 29.99 data plan. Which I consider normal. Then what they did is they took another group of phones that never required data and called it Multimedia Smartphones and they now require a 9.99 or 29.99 data plan. They then have a third catagory of cheap phones that do not require data.
So out of 50 phones 38 require some form of data plan.
Like I said the biggest joke of all is the 9.99 required data plan is only for 25mb.
What they did is took fairly popular phones like the LG Envy, Evny Touch, LG Chocolate and many of the Samsung phones that never required data and now to upgrade to those phones you now have to take at least a 9.99 data plan.
So I was just mistaken when Steve discussed Market Share in the iPhone OS 4 presentation he gave? And I was even more mistaken when he used the US browser share data to present his market share? So Apple doesn't discuss market share, but they use one statistic to make their market share look higher. Ok, I am sorry, you must be right.
Yes, Jobs mentioned browser share as one way to look at market share in terms of usage; clearly it's not in terms of sales, which is what we've been talking about here.
Browser usage is a useful metric for developers who want to know whether mobile device users are apt to use the browser to access the their web apps or web sites. So it's useful to mention at the OS 4 platform presentation to developers.
I may have a selective memory but I was referring to market share using unit sales. And there's no disputing that at every quarterly report and conference call, Nokia reports it's projection for it's market share for the upcoming quarters.
Other than talking about its original 10m (or 1%) goal, Apple has never again set a projection for iPhone market share - rather, it's been busy building it's iPhone platform and telling developers what they need to know about the App market size.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
But that's because you continue to choose to misinterpret what others say, sending us down useless paths that lead nowhere productive.
Other than talking about its original 10m (or 1%) goal, Apple has never again set a projection for iPhone market share - rather, it's been busy building it's iPhone platform and telling developers what they need to know about the App market size.
oh, so now you are changing what you meant, you didn't mean they don't talk about market share, it is now they don't set market share figures, maybe if people wrote what they meant initially we wouldn't have all these side discussions proving people wrong all the time.
I haven't misinterpretted anything, well maybe the fact that I read what you wrote, not what you were thinking.
Yes you have, just like you always have. You claim that everyone is wrong yet you are the only one who doesn't seem to follow simple comments. Heaven forbid we actually use a compound-complex sentence.
Sure, there are people reading this site from all over the world, of all ages and intelligence that I would like speak differently too if I were addressing them one-on-one, in person. If you are a "special needs" person or don't speak English well just let the poster know and they will likely clarify. The problem is just get nasty and pick fights that you can't win instead of addressing your concerns with a post politely.
oh, so now you are changing what you meant, you didn't mean they don't talk about market share, it is now they don't set market share figures, maybe if people wrote what they meant initially we wouldn't have all these side discussions proving people wrong all the time.
I didn't change what I meant.
Go back and read what I wrote - "rarely mentions share directly" - and we were discussing market share in terms of units sold.
Do you understand the words "rarely" and "directly"?
Apple doesn't really care about market share per se, and it's focus isn't on market share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005
I didn't change what I meant.
Go back and read what I wrote - "rarely mentions share directly" - and we were discussing market share in terms of units sold.
Do you understand the words "rarely" and "directly"?
There is the original line I was referring to, "Apple doesn't really care about market share per se", I don't see the words "rarely" in there at all, now all I said is, if they don't care about, which is what you said, then why do they mention it?
Comments
Before the iPhone, Verizon was growing faster and had less churn than AT&T. Now AT&T is growing faster and has less churn than Verizon. What exactly has changed? It certainly is not the perception of AT&T's service being better than Verizon's.
The last Strand report on cell phone market share showed that AT&T gained no market share from offering the iPhone. It might have prevented them from losing customers because of their service but not gaining customers.
If Apple doesn't care about market share, then why did Steve Jobs mention it in the original iPhone announcement, and why does he mention it during his other announcements?
That first quarter that you couldn't find an iPhone anywhere. They literally had stopped producing them sometime before April. It shows it was up 166% but remember that they only sold the original iPhone for a weekend before that quarter ended.
I recall this vividly because even though the 3G iPhone was imminent for release in July I (and many others, included NasserAE) were able to sell their original iPhone for more than retail price.
edit: It looks like it was Friday after 5pm sales and all of Saturday before that quarter ended.
You are correct. But doesn't it show the genius of Apple to release for just a couple of days so they know they could easily beat it the next year.
Of course, they didn't know then that the following year, they'd not be making any.
If Apple doesn't care about market share, then why did Steve Jobs mention it in the original iPhone announcement, and why does he mention it during his other announcements?
Does saying that you want to get just 1% of the market really show that you're interested in market share? In any case, the key metric was 10m units, which Apple called 1% (10m was actually less than 1%, even when he said it.)
He rarely mentions "share" directly when talking iPhone or iPod touch. Rather he says things like how many iPhone units were sold, how Apple is the number 1 mobile company by revenue, how Apple sold more than RIM, etc.
But I'm sure that as soon as Apple has more market share than any other phone maker, they'll be sure to mention it.
I believe Verizon has just done something really stupid that is going to greatly move people over to ATT.
It looks like someone in Verizon got the bright idea to force users to get a data plan on most of their phones including ones often used by teens simply for voice and text. Verizon has about 50 phones they off and now 38 of them requirea data plan of either 9.99 or 29.99.
Are you sure? Isn't it just for "smartphones"? Phones that have 3G, Wifi and full browser?
I think AT&T also requires all smartphones to have a $30 plan.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
He said he wanted 1% of the mobile phone market share. Exactly how is 1% being overly concerned about market share?
So I was just mistaken when Steve discussed Market Share in the iPhone OS 4 presentation he gave? And I was even more mistaken when he used the US browser share data to present his market share? So Apple doesn't discuss market share, but they use one statistic to make their market share look higher. Ok, I am sorry, you must be right.
He rarely mentions "share" directly when talking iPhone or iPod touch. Rather he says things like how many iPhone units were sold, how Apple is the number 1 mobile company by revenue, how Apple sold more than RIM, etc.
But I'm sure that as soon as Apple has more market share than any other phone maker, they'll be sure to mention it.
As I have said posted, he does mention it, maybe you have a selective memory?
As I have said posted, he does mention it, maybe you have a selective memory?
Or maybe you have a logic deficiency. The mention of marketshare when it suits their marketing needs does mean that their goal is marketshare. Their goal is profits within a specific market. If that also gets them more marketshare, great, but they are not focusing on marketshare as their goal or they'd be licensing Mac OS X to other OEMs, selling $250 netbooks and selling iPhone dumb phones.
Or maybe you have a logic deficiency. The mention of marketshare when it suits their marketing needs does mean that their goal is marketshare. Their goal is profits within a specific market. If that also gets them more marketshare, great, but they are not focusing on marketshare as their goal or they'd be licensing Mac OS X to other OEMs, selling $250 netbooks and selling iPhone dumb phones.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
Increasing market share is the result of Apple's success, yet market share is not what drives Apple. Apple is all about delivering a unique product / experience that works and that is profitable for Apple.
Are you sure? Isn't it just for "smartphones"? Phones that have 3G, Wifi and full browser?
I think AT&T also requires all smartphones to have a $30 plan.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Verizon created three catagories of phones. The first is 3G Smartphones which require a 29.99 data plan. Which I consider normal. Then what they did is they took another group of phones that never required data and called it Multimedia Smartphones and they now require a 9.99 or 29.99 data plan. They then have a third catagory of cheap phones that do not require data.
So out of 50 phones 38 require some form of data plan.
Like I said the biggest joke of all is the 9.99 required data plan is only for 25mb.
What they did is took fairly popular phones like the LG Envy, Evny Touch, LG Chocolate and many of the Samsung phones that never required data and now to upgrade to those phones you now have to take at least a 9.99 data plan.
So I was just mistaken when Steve discussed Market Share in the iPhone OS 4 presentation he gave? And I was even more mistaken when he used the US browser share data to present his market share? So Apple doesn't discuss market share, but they use one statistic to make their market share look higher. Ok, I am sorry, you must be right.
Yes, Jobs mentioned browser share as one way to look at market share in terms of usage; clearly it's not in terms of sales, which is what we've been talking about here.
Browser usage is a useful metric for developers who want to know whether mobile device users are apt to use the browser to access the their web apps or web sites. So it's useful to mention at the OS 4 platform presentation to developers.
I may have a selective memory but I was referring to market share using unit sales. And there's no disputing that at every quarterly report and conference call, Nokia reports it's projection for it's market share for the upcoming quarters.
Other than talking about its original 10m (or 1%) goal, Apple has never again set a projection for iPhone market share - rather, it's been busy building it's iPhone platform and telling developers what they need to know about the App market size.
Again, you miss the points, Apple mentions market share, I made a statement, I provided facts to back it up, and again, like clockwork here you come, wasting everyones time.
But that's because you continue to choose to misinterpret what others say, sending us down useless paths that lead nowhere productive.
Other than talking about its original 10m (or 1%) goal, Apple has never again set a projection for iPhone market share - rather, it's been busy building it's iPhone platform and telling developers what they need to know about the App market size.
oh, so now you are changing what you meant, you didn't mean they don't talk about market share, it is now they don't set market share figures, maybe if people wrote what they meant initially we wouldn't have all these side discussions proving people wrong all the time.
But that's because you continue to choose to misinterpret what others say, sending us down useless paths that lead nowhere productive.
I haven't misinterpretted anything, well maybe the fact that I read what you wrote, not what you were thinking.
I haven't misinterpretted anything, well maybe the fact that I read what you wrote, not what you were thinking.
Yes you have, just like you always have. You claim that everyone is wrong yet you are the only one who doesn't seem to follow simple comments. Heaven forbid we actually use a compound-complex sentence.
Sure, there are people reading this site from all over the world, of all ages and intelligence that I would like speak differently too if I were addressing them one-on-one, in person. If you are a "special needs" person or don't speak English well just let the poster know and they will likely clarify. The problem is just get nasty and pick fights that you can't win instead of addressing your concerns with a post politely.
As I have said posted, he does mention it, maybe you have a selective memory?
"As I have said posted" is nonsense talk. What does it mean?
(This is what you do. Take one little piece of a post and pick at it, all the while ignoring the main point.)
oh, so now you are changing what you meant, you didn't mean they don't talk about market share, it is now they don't set market share figures, maybe if people wrote what they meant initially we wouldn't have all these side discussions proving people wrong all the time.
I didn't change what I meant.
Go back and read what I wrote - "rarely mentions share directly" - and we were discussing market share in terms of units sold.
Do you understand the words "rarely" and "directly"?
Apple doesn't really care about market share per se, and it's focus isn't on market share.
I didn't change what I meant.
Go back and read what I wrote - "rarely mentions share directly" - and we were discussing market share in terms of units sold.
Do you understand the words "rarely" and "directly"?
There is the original line I was referring to, "Apple doesn't really care about market share per se", I don't see the words "rarely" in there at all, now all I said is, if they don't care about, which is what you said, then why do they mention it?
Simple question to your statement