As much as I think hp's ROI in this case is suspect, it could've done worse than acquiring a reasonably quality bit of kit from Palm. What they really need (indeed the industry) is another hard taskmaster with a vision, business acumen and an environment that cultivates great ideas.
I've always had a soft spot for Palm. Must be getting old...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraSPARC
R.I.P. Palm. From the Pilot to the early Treo's (emphasis on early), you made some awesome products! It's sad to see HP tearing apart another company with some great technologies! Another tragedy of HP's exploit of a company's purchase for short term gains.
Agree..
Palm did a stupid-stupid big mistake to sell the company's most precious product; the Palm OS now known as Garnet OS, and now Palm is doing it all over again. It is sad to see a very good software went down the sink because of a bad management, the spoiled top guys at the top of the company's chain of command didn't have the guts to take the hard path but better in a long term, they prefer to chose quicker paths to cash in and get out fast..
This is a common result coming from pampered executives nowadays.
Litigation on these patents was inevitable, and is likely to be ongoing for years, with the outcomes far from certain. At this point it's pointless to argue about who ripped off who.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkeath
But Apple didn't invent multitouch. They just implemented it on a consumer device first. It was developed by researchers that are not Apple. If Apple patents it, and another party can prove that it was not Apple's invention, the patent is invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
Otherwise known as prior art.
Who owns what in multitouch is going to be resolved (or not) by many competing lawsuits over a long period of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkeath
Oh I completely agree. I am just saying that you can't claim that anyone ripped off Apple when Apple cot the idea from someone else. It would be like saying that Apple ripped off Xerox with the Lisa/Macintosh or Apple ripped off Palm with the Newton.
You guys have said it all yourselves..
Trying to fight over patents on court is going to take years, plus both parties will face a possibility of losing their patents when things go south, so the best way is to rip it off and hope nobody will sue.
It is not just webOS, but also Android and the upcoming Windows Phone, that are 'ripping off' Apple's multi-touch patent. Apple, more precise is Steve Jobs, has patented and has been awarded the 358-page thick mother of all patents about multi-touch technology on touchsreen display. In another word, Apple already own the aforementioned tech..
Is there any other way for Palm, Google and Microsoft to use multi-touch technology that doesn't conflict with Apple's 358-page thick patent? I don't think so..
So how are those big companies gonna sell their softwares? They just did, and go for it. They just hope Apple won't make a big deal out of it and let them be, since they all know that the more thick a patent is will mean it is more prone to lose it, this is a bit of dilemma..
What is wrong with you?? Are you a Palm fan? Is that why you're already referring to two links to PreCentral site in one day?
Hardly. But if an article needs clarification I figure it's better to go to a source that has a vested interest in the details. (I would have gone to the source of the original interview but couldn't find it.) I don't think it's good for AppleInsider to sensationalize something like this based on bad information - we all get pissed when PC sites misrepresent anything Apple does.
Hardly. But if an article needs clarification I figure it's better to go to a source that has a vested interest in the details. (I would have gone to the source of the original interview but couldn't find it.) I don't think it's good for AppleInsider to sensationalize something like this based on bad information - we all get pissed when PC sites misrepresent anything Apple does.
Then why didn't you refer to the other sites than the PreCentral? The three most read blogs are covering the news too: Boy Genius Report, Engadget and Gizmodo.. Indeed AI should have updated the news and add the newly announced HP PR Press release note.
What you did, two times referring to PreCentral site, does make an impression that you're a regular reader of the Palm-oriented blog. Although the blog does have a sister iPhone-oriented blog too, which often covers the same topic on tech news.. But usually those who read Palm-oriented blogs are Palm fans. So yeah, I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're referring to PalmCentral two times in a day..
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're referring to PalmCentral two times in a day..
Why? Why? Why?
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're getting so worked up over this? Sorry I didn't wade through those other sites to essentially do AppleInsider's job. I thought Hurd's remarks sounded odd and wanted to investigate myself, so I went to a source that would report the complete story, rather than an incomplete snippet as reported here.
A bigger question is why this merits a full article at AppleInsider. Why? Why? Why?
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're getting so worked up over this? Sorry I didn't wade through those other sites to essentially do AppleInsider's job. I thought Hurd's remarks sounded odd and wanted to investigate myself, so I went to a source that would report the complete story, rather than an incomplete snippet as reported here.
A bigger question is why this merits a full article at AppleInsider. Why? Why? Why?
Uuuh.. my burning passion to understand you has gone flat cold, so I'm ending it here.
Well, because the news is about smartphone, and Apple's iPhone is a smartphone. And not to mention that Palm (with its webOS) is one of Apple competitors in the market, so I think that's why..
I don't see how they can go tablet only. We are reaching the point where mobile devices increasingly require a unified platform. The same platform running on your phone and your tablet so that you can access the same apps on each platform.
If I buy an iPhone or an Android handset why would I then get a WebOS tablet? It's gotta something damn amazing with incredible apps unavailable elsewhere to compel me to add another OS to my mobile devices set.
Uuuh.. my burning passion to understand you has gone flat cold, so I'm ending it here.
What a relief.
Quote:
Well, because the news is about smartphone, and Apple's iPhone is a smartphone. And not to mention that Palm (with its webOS) is one of Apple competitors in the market, so I think that's why..
By that measure, every news clipping about any smartphone should get analyzed here. I think you can see where that would lead...
(I'm certainly not above a little shadenfreude when it comes to Apple's competitors, but 1) Palm is hardly a big adversary - think RIM, Android, or Symbian instead, and 2) the point about HP not continuing their smartphone business turns out to not be as stated. If AppleInsider is going to report on stuff like this, they should at least choose something that's meaningful. Articles like this simply drag AI down.)
I don't see how they can go tablet only. We are reaching the point where mobile devices increasingly require a unified platform. The same platform running on your phone and your tablet so that you can access the same apps on each platform.
If I buy an iPhone or an Android handset why would I then get a WebOS tablet? It's gotta something damn amazing with incredible apps unavailable elsewhere to compel me to add another OS to my mobile devices set.
It is every consumer's dream come true to have a unified mobile platform, but that would be having the big boys (Apple, RIM, Google, Palm, Microsoft, HP, etc.) unified too, and that's not gonna happen. Well, at least not in near future..
To answer your question, I'm going to ask you a question too: then why would HP acquired the webOS from Palm? It would be a lot easier, definitely cheaper, to just use open source mobile platform like Android in its tablet pipeline production. I can only imagine two main reasons from other possibilities:
First, by acquiring Palm, HP will not only get the webOS but also many other Palm's IPs (Intellectual Properties). Tablet device is all about touch and multi-touch technologies, and Palm already own several (if not many) of those from years of making touch-oriented mobile devices. Although it's still unclear whether Palm's webOS is violating Apple's iPhone multi-touch patent or not, nevertheless it is a pretty awesome mobile OS compared to others (other than iPhone and Android).
Second, everybody in the industry is going to make tablets based on Android, so it's going to be a tough thing to do to just to make one that will stand out in the crowd. But with webOS, it will be a lot easier. Since Palm up to now only make two webOS devices: the Pre and the Pixi, but no tablet yet. So by acquiring Palm, HP own the webOS, and by then automatically allowing HP to monopolized the making of the next webOS devices.*
For a company like HP, having its own mobile platform is a safe bet in the future. The company now has a third choice to choose for, other than Windows 7 or Android, making it less dependent on Microsoft or Google and to stand on its own. But you're right about things that attract users to buy webOS device/tablet, it's up to HP (and Palm too) to create an amazing environment for webOS so software developers able to create great apps for the platform.
Hopefully they will be able to pull this off nicely, otherwise it's going to be another good mobile platform gone in the drain..
*Note: gosh, I was using too many "-ing" in a sentence, I hope I used it in a right way..
By that measure, every news clipping about any smartphone should get analyzed here. I think you can see where that would lead...
(I'm certainly not above a little shadenfreude when it comes to Apple's competitors, but 1) Palm is hardly a big adversary - think RIM, Android, or Symbian instead, and 2) the point about HP not continuing their smartphone business turns out to not be as stated. If AppleInsider is going to report on stuff like this, they should at least choose something that's meaningful. Articles like this simply drag AI down.)
I would love that, yeah.. That would mean that by reading AI alone, I will have as many information as I can about every smartphone out there in the market, that would be lovely, don't you think?
But IMHO, Palm (with its webOS) is one of the closest competitors to Apple's iPhone, other than Android. RIM and Symbian is far from creating a touch-based and multi-touch display platform, webOS was once hauled by analysts and tech enthusiasts as an "iPhone-killer", but Palm shot its own foot and kill the hype of webOS by not quickly making a good environment for the platform. So when HP acquired webOS, it can't be help but to wonder if the platform once again will live up to its expectation.
It's not like I'm defending Palm (or even HP), or AI in covering news like this, but it's like what I said up there.. It is still news, no matter how small or big. And personally, no matter how small the news is, it is still as good as gold for me.
PS. Is "shadenfreude" you said there means: deriving some kind of pleasure from someone else's pain or discomfort? I'm adding it into my vocabulary..
Comments
As much as I think hp's ROI in this case is suspect, it could've done worse than acquiring a reasonably quality bit of kit from Palm. What they really need (indeed the industry) is another hard taskmaster with a vision, business acumen and an environment that cultivates great ideas.
I've always had a soft spot for Palm. Must be getting old...
R.I.P. Palm. From the Pilot to the early Treo's (emphasis on early), you made some awesome products! It's sad to see HP tearing apart another company with some great technologies! Another tragedy of HP's exploit of a company's purchase for short term gains.
Agree..
Palm did a stupid-stupid big mistake to sell the company's most precious product; the Palm OS now known as Garnet OS, and now Palm is doing it all over again. It is sad to see a very good software went down the sink because of a bad management, the spoiled top guys at the top of the company's chain of command didn't have the guts to take the hard path but better in a long term, they prefer to chose quicker paths to cash in and get out fast..
This is a common result coming from pampered executives nowadays.
I can't find the original article (at least on pcmag.com) but this is where I read that:
http://www.precentral.net/hp-ceo-we-...#comment-95031
Needless to say, the Palm/WebOS fans are quite stirred up by this, and I can't say I blame them.
http://www.precentral.net/ceos-say-d...cted-device-us
Mark Hurd attempts to clarify his previous remark (and obfuscates it in corporate-speak).
So it appears that HP will continue to pursue smartphones, although not with the singular focus that Palm itself would have brought to the task.
What is wrong with you?? Are you a Palm fan? Is that why you're already referring to two links to PreCentral site in one day?
Litigation on these patents was inevitable, and is likely to be ongoing for years, with the outcomes far from certain. At this point it's pointless to argue about who ripped off who.
But Apple didn't invent multitouch. They just implemented it on a consumer device first. It was developed by researchers that are not Apple. If Apple patents it, and another party can prove that it was not Apple's invention, the patent is invalid.
Otherwise known as prior art.
Who owns what in multitouch is going to be resolved (or not) by many competing lawsuits over a long period of time.
Oh I completely agree. I am just saying that you can't claim that anyone ripped off Apple when Apple cot the idea from someone else. It would be like saying that Apple ripped off Xerox with the Lisa/Macintosh or Apple ripped off Palm with the Newton.
You guys have said it all yourselves..
Trying to fight over patents on court is going to take years, plus both parties will face a possibility of losing their patents when things go south, so the best way is to rip it off and hope nobody will sue.
It is not just webOS, but also Android and the upcoming Windows Phone, that are 'ripping off' Apple's multi-touch patent. Apple, more precise is Steve Jobs, has patented and has been awarded the 358-page thick mother of all patents about multi-touch technology on touchsreen display. In another word, Apple already own the aforementioned tech..
Is there any other way for Palm, Google and Microsoft to use multi-touch technology that doesn't conflict with Apple's 358-page thick patent? I don't think so..
So how are those big companies gonna sell their softwares? They just did, and go for it. They just hope Apple won't make a big deal out of it and let them be, since they all know that the more thick a patent is will mean it is more prone to lose it, this is a bit of dilemma..
What is wrong with you?? Are you a Palm fan? Is that why you're already referring to two links to PreCentral site in one day?
Hardly. But if an article needs clarification I figure it's better to go to a source that has a vested interest in the details. (I would have gone to the source of the original interview but couldn't find it.) I don't think it's good for AppleInsider to sensationalize something like this based on bad information - we all get pissed when PC sites misrepresent anything Apple does.
Hardly. But if an article needs clarification I figure it's better to go to a source that has a vested interest in the details. (I would have gone to the source of the original interview but couldn't find it.) I don't think it's good for AppleInsider to sensationalize something like this based on bad information - we all get pissed when PC sites misrepresent anything Apple does.
Then why didn't you refer to the other sites than the PreCentral? The three most read blogs are covering the news too: Boy Genius Report, Engadget and Gizmodo.. Indeed AI should have updated the news and add the newly announced HP PR Press release note.
What you did, two times referring to PreCentral site, does make an impression that you're a regular reader of the Palm-oriented blog. Although the blog does have a sister iPhone-oriented blog too, which often covers the same topic on tech news.. But usually those who read Palm-oriented blogs are Palm fans. So yeah, I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're referring to PalmCentral two times in a day..
Why? Why? Why?
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're referring to PalmCentral two times in a day..
Why? Why? Why?
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're getting so worked up over this? Sorry I didn't wade through those other sites to essentially do AppleInsider's job. I thought Hurd's remarks sounded odd and wanted to investigate myself, so I went to a source that would report the complete story, rather than an incomplete snippet as reported here.
A bigger question is why this merits a full article at AppleInsider. Why? Why? Why?
I'm trying to fathom the real reason why you're getting so worked up over this? Sorry I didn't wade through those other sites to essentially do AppleInsider's job. I thought Hurd's remarks sounded odd and wanted to investigate myself, so I went to a source that would report the complete story, rather than an incomplete snippet as reported here.
A bigger question is why this merits a full article at AppleInsider. Why? Why? Why?
Uuuh.. my burning passion to understand you has gone flat cold, so I'm ending it here.
Well, because the news is about smartphone, and Apple's iPhone is a smartphone. And not to mention that Palm (with its webOS) is one of Apple competitors in the market, so I think that's why..
If I buy an iPhone or an Android handset why would I then get a WebOS tablet? It's gotta something damn amazing with incredible apps unavailable elsewhere to compel me to add another OS to my mobile devices set.
Uuuh.. my burning passion to understand you has gone flat cold, so I'm ending it here.
What a relief.
Well, because the news is about smartphone, and Apple's iPhone is a smartphone. And not to mention that Palm (with its webOS) is one of Apple competitors in the market, so I think that's why..
By that measure, every news clipping about any smartphone should get analyzed here. I think you can see where that would lead...
(I'm certainly not above a little shadenfreude when it comes to Apple's competitors, but 1) Palm is hardly a big adversary - think RIM, Android, or Symbian instead, and 2) the point about HP not continuing their smartphone business turns out to not be as stated. If AppleInsider is going to report on stuff like this, they should at least choose something that's meaningful. Articles like this simply drag AI down.)
I don't see how they can go tablet only. We are reaching the point where mobile devices increasingly require a unified platform. The same platform running on your phone and your tablet so that you can access the same apps on each platform.
If I buy an iPhone or an Android handset why would I then get a WebOS tablet? It's gotta something damn amazing with incredible apps unavailable elsewhere to compel me to add another OS to my mobile devices set.
It is every consumer's dream come true to have a unified mobile platform, but that would be having the big boys (Apple, RIM, Google, Palm, Microsoft, HP, etc.) unified too, and that's not gonna happen. Well, at least not in near future..
To answer your question, I'm going to ask you a question too: then why would HP acquired the webOS from Palm? It would be a lot easier, definitely cheaper, to just use open source mobile platform like Android in its tablet pipeline production. I can only imagine two main reasons from other possibilities:
First, by acquiring Palm, HP will not only get the webOS but also many other Palm's IPs (Intellectual Properties). Tablet device is all about touch and multi-touch technologies, and Palm already own several (if not many) of those from years of making touch-oriented mobile devices. Although it's still unclear whether Palm's webOS is violating Apple's iPhone multi-touch patent or not, nevertheless it is a pretty awesome mobile OS compared to others (other than iPhone and Android).
Second, everybody in the industry is going to make tablets based on Android, so it's going to be a tough thing to do to just to make one that will stand out in the crowd. But with webOS, it will be a lot easier. Since Palm up to now only make two webOS devices: the Pre and the Pixi, but no tablet yet. So by acquiring Palm, HP own the webOS, and by then automatically allowing HP to monopolized the making of the next webOS devices.*
For a company like HP, having its own mobile platform is a safe bet in the future. The company now has a third choice to choose for, other than Windows 7 or Android, making it less dependent on Microsoft or Google and to stand on its own. But you're right about things that attract users to buy webOS device/tablet, it's up to HP (and Palm too) to create an amazing environment for webOS so software developers able to create great apps for the platform.
Hopefully they will be able to pull this off nicely, otherwise it's going to be another good mobile platform gone in the drain..
*Note: gosh, I was using too many "-ing" in a sentence, I hope I used it in a right way..
By that measure, every news clipping about any smartphone should get analyzed here. I think you can see where that would lead...
(I'm certainly not above a little shadenfreude when it comes to Apple's competitors, but 1) Palm is hardly a big adversary - think RIM, Android, or Symbian instead, and 2) the point about HP not continuing their smartphone business turns out to not be as stated. If AppleInsider is going to report on stuff like this, they should at least choose something that's meaningful. Articles like this simply drag AI down.)
I would love that, yeah.. That would mean that by reading AI alone, I will have as many information as I can about every smartphone out there in the market, that would be lovely, don't you think?
But IMHO, Palm (with its webOS) is one of the closest competitors to Apple's iPhone, other than Android. RIM and Symbian is far from creating a touch-based and multi-touch display platform, webOS was once hauled by analysts and tech enthusiasts as an "iPhone-killer", but Palm shot its own foot and kill the hype of webOS by not quickly making a good environment for the platform. So when HP acquired webOS, it can't be help but to wonder if the platform once again will live up to its expectation.
It's not like I'm defending Palm (or even HP), or AI in covering news like this, but it's like what I said up there.. It is still news, no matter how small or big. And personally, no matter how small the news is, it is still as good as gold for me.
PS. Is "shadenfreude" you said there means: deriving some kind of pleasure from someone else's pain or discomfort? I'm adding it into my vocabulary..