As for Moore, He's the guy that responded to Sept. 11 by lamenting that more Republicans weren't killed. He has nothing to say to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Was there any media outcry over this statement? I never even heard this. Can you imagine the media outcry if some prominent Republican had expressed disappointment that it was too bad that there wasn't a meeting of either the ACLU, ABA, Sierra club, or Democrat convention there at that time?
I used to love Michael Moore's work. Frankly, this book and his recent appearnces on campuses and talk shows bores me. He's a politician now. I just feel like he doesn't see what's in front of him all times. Sure, he's on target with some stuff he says, but it's like blindfolded target practice.
Well, that and the fact that anyone who rallies to the name of Bill Clinton without fail can't really be a liberal at heart. Clinton was possibly the most conservative President we've had in modern times with his pro-rich folk, pro-business (anti-consumer), pro-establishment agenda. Say what you will about his international policy, his domestic policy made Ronald Reagan look like a hippie.
[quote]Well, that and the fact that anyone who rallies to the name of Bill Clinton without fail can't really be a liberal at heart.<hr></blockquote>
A-freakin'-men.
roger, when and where did he say that?? I remember him saying something to the effect of "if the terrorists did this because they wanted to get back at Bush then they attacked they chose the wrong cities (Boston & Cali (flight origination and destination) and NY (the attack area))" but I haven't heard of him saying that he regrets the fact that there wasn't a Republican convention in the WTC that day or something to that effect.
That would truly be a horrible thing to say, so I'll try to reserve judgement on it until I can see a little confirmation (not that you should go hunting it down for me, of course).
roger, when and where did he say that??</strong><hr></blockquote>
He wrote an article/letter that he posted on his website just after 9/11. This was was in it:
Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!
He later edited these comments. Makes no difference to me. The man is obscene.
last i read was "Downsize This"... it was crap. The docu of it was worse. I loved Roger&Me... but Moore's been nothing but an armchair critic since. Blacks still in slavery? oh gasp! what a revelation!
cuss
p.s. he's hardly obscene... nowadays he's too tame.
<strong>Hey BM, You wouldn't happen to be Mr. Moore now would you? You defend the guy like he was your wife </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, Outsider, don't you mean Samantha Jones Olleande? All I've said so far is that I thought there some powerful passages in the book and some bits that made me laugh, and I've acknowledged that he has a political agenda.
No, TBM is not Michael Moore. I weigh a lot less and I don't own any baseball caps for one thing.
He wrote an article/letter that he posted on his website just after 9/11. This was was in it:
Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
In what way is that passage advocating killing Republicans, roger_ramjet me old right-wing warhouse? In no way as far as I can see. This is a pretty extreme example of the hostility and vitriol Samantha was talking about in her post - you're twisting his words to suit your own conservative agenda. You don't like the message so you're trying to character-assassinate the messenger.
sc_markt is right - if he'd really said what you're claiming, there would have been a huge outcry.
[quote] Yep. "Roger & Me" was pretty good, but he's a Leftist stooge these days.<hr></blockquote>
A stooge of who? Is there some Machiavellian leftist Dr Evil in an underground lair somewhere, controlling a network brainwashed agents out to say unkind things about the Amercian Way? I also saw "Roger & Me" and "Downsize This" but I don't see finboy's point here at all. Hasn't RM always been left-wing? Isn't opposition to the examples of ruthless capitalism at its worst highlighted in those films inherently left-wing?
I don't really see that as "I wish Republicans had been killed" but as "If they wanted to get Bush they were aiming at the wrong places."
Tasteless and stupid, either way, and indicative of how self-absorbed political tools get ("They must've been going after GeeDub since I hate GeeDub...").
Someone doesn't have to be in direct control of Moore, he's just a sucker and turned into a causehead attached like a leech to a particular side whether it's good or evil.
[quote]Isn't opposition to the examples of ruthless capitalism at its worst highlighted in those films inherently left-wing?<hr></blockquote>
Leftist, yes. Democrat, no.
What he has turned himself into is a Democrat-in-disguise, pulling for the jack-ass party and thereby sacrificing all claims to being a real liberal.
The "left" in America isn't "left" at all, it's just a tiny bit scooted over from the American "right". They're essentially the same but they have different platitudes. Moore has decided to make himself Rush Limbaugh's counterpart so the things he says now in attempts to be "independent" are hollow and without weight.
In what way is that passage advocating killing Republicans, roger_ramjet me old right-wing warhouse? In no way as far as I can see. This is a pretty extreme example of the hostility and vitriol Samantha was talking about in her post - you're twisting his words to suit your own conservative agenda. You don't like the message so you're trying to character-assassinate the messenger.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bullshit. People rightly went ballistic when Fallwell and Robertson were peddling their extreme views in the wake of 9/11. But you won't hold Moore to the same standards? What the hell is going on here? Not only that, you accuse me of twisting his words!! He complained that thousands WHO DID NOT VOTE for Bush were killed. His emphasis. It doesn't at all twist his words to recognize what he was implying - the way to get at Bush would therefore have been to kill instead those who did vote for him. If that wasn't the implication, then why even talk about who the 9/11 victims voted for anyway? What other reason would he have had for bringing the subject up? Even Moore understood what he'd done. That's why he removed the comments from his website.
Bullshit. People rightly went ballistic when Fallwell and Robertson were peddling their extreme views in the wake of 9/11. But you won't hold Moore to the same standards? What the hell is going on here?
What is going on here is reality you crack head. Fallwell blamed innocent people (gays and minorities) for peoples deaths. Moore on the other hand was just pointing out that the policies that most muslims so staunchly disagree with such as complete and unequivocal support for Israel are more conservative ideas while the people who died on september 11 happened to be more liberal. He is in no way saying that anyone deserved to die that day nor that he wished more republicans would have died, he is simply saying that the message Osoma was sending was directed towards the wrong group. It's like if you were mad at the post office so you ended up throwing a brick threw the window of your local UPS station. The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS
<strong>I consider Falwell, Moore and their extremist ilk to be utterly retarded. And anybody that defends either is likewise retarded.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A moderate from Berkeley? People shouldn't compare Moore and Falwell because one preaces hate and the other a plan to solve poverty. Just because you don't believe that Moore's ideas would work doesn't mean that he is retarted
1) What Muslims oppose and the cause for their hatred has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Democrat/Republican differences, mainly because there is very little difference between the two.
Moore was an absolute moron for thinking this because the WTC was the financial heart of our economy... and yet he asserts it was filled with anti-Dubyas. What a friggin' moron, Moore is sometimes.
If he was a REAL liberal he would SEE the irony in his own condemnation.
--
BlueMeanie:
His race comments are decades old. I don't know anyone who feels that way when a black person approaches and I even lived in East goddam Texas for a while. Lingering effects of slavery... riiight.
I do not find Moore's commentary intelligent or witty. He wants attention and that's basically all. That's probably the core motivation for most public figures like him...and Falwell.
It is quite clear Moore bends over backwards to find dirt where his bias leads him.
Elaborate on his ideas and I will tell you why they won't work. His ideas seem more like wisecracks designed to sell books and tapes to me.
I think it's hillarious that people actually think that muslim extremeists like Democrats more than Republicans! This is just too funny. And that because of where someone lives they should be slotted as either a D or a R.
The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS
Ah, now we see your true colors. A party man. (and I don't mean birthday parties)
What is going on here is reality you crack head. Fallwell blamed innocent people (gays and minorities) for peoples deaths. Moore on the other hand was just pointing out that the policies that most muslims so staunchly disagree with such as complete and unequivocal support for Israel are more conservative ideas while the people who died on september 11 happened to be more liberal. He is in no way saying that anyone deserved to die that day nor that he wished more republicans would have died, he is simply saying that the message Osoma was sending was directed towards the wrong group. It's like if you were mad at the post office so you ended up throwing a brick threw the window of your local UPS station. The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. The Blue Meanie couldn't have put it better himself
Comments
<strong>
There are two leftists that have been honest about Clinton that I've encountered: Bill Hicks and Noam Chomsky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Add Christopher Hitchens to your list.
As for Moore, He's the guy that responded to Sept. 11 by lamenting that more Republicans weren't killed. He has nothing to say to me.
<strong>
As for Moore, He's the guy that responded to Sept. 11 by lamenting that more Republicans weren't killed. He has nothing to say to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Was there any media outcry over this statement? I never even heard this. Can you imagine the media outcry if some prominent Republican had expressed disappointment that it was too bad that there wasn't a meeting of either the ACLU, ABA, Sierra club, or Democrat convention there at that time?
Well, that and the fact that anyone who rallies to the name of Bill Clinton without fail can't really be a liberal at heart. Clinton was possibly the most conservative President we've had in modern times with his pro-rich folk, pro-business (anti-consumer), pro-establishment agenda. Say what you will about his international policy, his domestic policy made Ronald Reagan look like a hippie.
A-freakin'-men.
roger, when and where did he say that?? I remember him saying something to the effect of "if the terrorists did this because they wanted to get back at Bush then they attacked they chose the wrong cities (Boston & Cali (flight origination and destination) and NY (the attack area))" but I haven't heard of him saying that he regrets the fact that there wasn't a Republican convention in the WTC that day or something to that effect.
That would truly be a horrible thing to say, so I'll try to reserve judgement on it until I can see a little confirmation (not that you should go hunting it down for me, of course).
<strong>
roger, when and where did he say that??</strong><hr></blockquote>
He wrote an article/letter that he posted on his website just after 9/11. This was was in it:
Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!
He later edited these comments. Makes no difference to me. The man is obscene.
cuss
p.s. he's hardly obscene... nowadays he's too tame.
<strong>
... Blacks still in slavery? oh gasp! what a revelation!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, it sure is news to me.
[quote]<strong>p.s. he's hardly obscene... nowadays he's too tame.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tame? Get a grip. What's so tame about wishing death upon those who vote Republican?
a red slave to low wages,
cuss
<strong>Hey BM, You wouldn't happen to be Mr. Moore now would you? You defend the guy like he was your wife
Hey, Outsider, don't you mean Samantha Jones Olleande? All I've said so far is that I thought there some powerful passages in the book and some bits that made me laugh, and I've acknowledged that he has a political agenda.
No, TBM is not Michael Moore. I weigh a lot less and I don't own any baseball caps for one thing.
<strong>
He wrote an article/letter that he posted on his website just after 9/11. This was was in it:
Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
sc_markt is right - if he'd really said what you're claiming, there would have been a huge outcry.
[quote] Yep. "Roger & Me" was pretty good, but he's a Leftist stooge these days.<hr></blockquote>
A stooge of who? Is there some Machiavellian leftist Dr Evil in an underground lair somewhere, controlling a network brainwashed agents out to say unkind things about the Amercian Way? I also saw "Roger & Me" and "Downsize This" but I don't see finboy's point here at all. Hasn't RM always been left-wing? Isn't opposition to the examples of ruthless capitalism at its worst highlighted in those films inherently left-wing?
Tasteless and stupid, either way, and indicative of how self-absorbed political tools get ("They must've been going after GeeDub since I hate GeeDub...").
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Someone doesn't have to be in direct control of Moore, he's just a sucker and turned into a causehead attached like a leech to a particular side whether it's good or evil.
[quote]Isn't opposition to the examples of ruthless capitalism at its worst highlighted in those films inherently left-wing?<hr></blockquote>
Leftist, yes. Democrat, no.
What he has turned himself into is a Democrat-in-disguise, pulling for the jack-ass party and thereby sacrificing all claims to being a real liberal.
The "left" in America isn't "left" at all, it's just a tiny bit scooted over from the American "right". They're essentially the same but they have different platitudes. Moore has decided to make himself Rush Limbaugh's counterpart so the things he says now in attempts to be "independent" are hollow and without weight.
<strong>
In what way is that passage advocating killing Republicans, roger_ramjet me old right-wing warhouse? In no way as far as I can see. This is a pretty extreme example of the hostility and vitriol Samantha was talking about in her post - you're twisting his words to suit your own conservative agenda. You don't like the message so you're trying to character-assassinate the messenger.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bullshit. People rightly went ballistic when Fallwell and Robertson were peddling their extreme views in the wake of 9/11. But you won't hold Moore to the same standards? What the hell is going on here? Not only that, you accuse me of twisting his words!! He complained that thousands WHO DID NOT VOTE for Bush were killed. His emphasis. It doesn't at all twist his words to recognize what he was implying - the way to get at Bush would therefore have been to kill instead those who did vote for him. If that wasn't the implication, then why even talk about who the 9/11 victims voted for anyway? What other reason would he have had for bringing the subject up? Even Moore understood what he'd done. That's why he removed the comments from his website.
[ 04-06-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
<strong>
Bullshit. People rightly went ballistic when Fallwell and Robertson were peddling their extreme views in the wake of 9/11. But you won't hold Moore to the same standards? What the hell is going on here?
[ 04-06-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
What is going on here is reality you crack head. Fallwell blamed innocent people (gays and minorities) for peoples deaths. Moore on the other hand was just pointing out that the policies that most muslims so staunchly disagree with such as complete and unequivocal support for Israel are more conservative ideas while the people who died on september 11 happened to be more liberal. He is in no way saying that anyone deserved to die that day nor that he wished more republicans would have died, he is simply saying that the message Osoma was sending was directed towards the wrong group. It's like if you were mad at the post office so you ended up throwing a brick threw the window of your local UPS station. The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS
<strong>I consider Falwell, Moore and their extremist ilk to be utterly retarded. And anybody that defends either is likewise retarded.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A moderate from Berkeley? People shouldn't compare Moore and Falwell because one preaces hate and the other a plan to solve poverty. Just because you don't believe that Moore's ideas would work doesn't mean that he is retarted
Moore was an absolute moron for thinking this because the WTC was the financial heart of our economy... and yet he asserts it was filled with anti-Dubyas. What a friggin' moron, Moore is sometimes.
If he was a REAL liberal he would SEE the irony in his own condemnation.
--
BlueMeanie:
His race comments are decades old. I don't know anyone who feels that way when a black person approaches and I even lived in East goddam Texas for a while. Lingering effects of slavery... riiight.
It is quite clear Moore bends over backwards to find dirt where his bias leads him.
Elaborate on his ideas and I will tell you why they won't work. His ideas seem more like wisecracks designed to sell books and tapes to me.
The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS
Ah, now we see your true colors. A party man. (and I don't mean birthday parties)
<strong>
What is going on here is reality you crack head. Fallwell blamed innocent people (gays and minorities) for peoples deaths. Moore on the other hand was just pointing out that the policies that most muslims so staunchly disagree with such as complete and unequivocal support for Israel are more conservative ideas while the people who died on september 11 happened to be more liberal. He is in no way saying that anyone deserved to die that day nor that he wished more republicans would have died, he is simply saying that the message Osoma was sending was directed towards the wrong group. It's like if you were mad at the post office so you ended up throwing a brick threw the window of your local UPS station. The Blue Meanie is right when he says that you are simply twisting his words to fit your agenda. typical conservative BS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. The Blue Meanie couldn't have put it better himself