Apple highlights interactive capabilities of HTML5

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 319
    fulldecentfulldecent Posts: 108member
    They have one, it's called Textedit, Command-,, Open and Save, When Opening a File, Ignore Rich Text Commands in HTML Files
  • Reply 62 of 319
    bettiebluebettieblue Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    Hmmm does not work on HTML 5 enabled Chrome or Firefox, when trying to introduce people to HTML 5 as a future replacement for Flash might be best not to force them to download your browser if the one they are currently using already supports HTML 5!



    Still, works great on my iPad.



    Indeed I am trying to view this on a PC at work. I HATE Safari on a Mac, its even worse on Windows. Chrome is 1000x better and probably would run this stuff faster.



    Dumb move Apple!
  • Reply 63 of 319
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gavinmillerusa View Post


    It doesn't even work with Safari for Windows! Geez, Apple, what point are you trying to make here?!



    I tested and works great on windows safari.
  • Reply 64 of 319
    bettiebluebettieblue Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    you make good points except i will argue that my 3rd point IS correct because i am specifying windows users who use the microsoft default browser internet explorer. Most windows users are still using the IE.



    62% of the US users IE, 4% use Safari. IE9 beta has better HTML5 support than Safari...



    http://www.neowin.net/news/internet-...tml5-compliant
  • Reply 65 of 319
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    62% of the US users IE, 4% use Safari. IE9 beta has better HTML5 support than Safari...



    http://www.neowin.net/news/internet-...tml5-compliant



    If windows users ... and this is a big if ... adopt IE 9 or alternative browsers that support html 5, then i believe flash will become less and less dominate even on the desktops. I also believe html 5 will become the de facto standard. Unfortuneatly developers still have to worry about what windows users are doing because they are the market.
  • Reply 66 of 319
    foadfoad Posts: 717member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    If windows users ... and this is a big if ... adopt IE 9 or alternative browsers that support html 5, then i believe flash will become less and less dominate even on the desktops. I also believe html 5 will become the de facto standard. Unfortuneatly developers still have to worry about what windows users are doing because they are the market.



    The fact of the matter is that users are moving away from IE for a variety of reasons. They are moving away at an increasing rate. As I mentioned earlier, that is the reason the IE team is trying to implement more standards into IE 9. If they don't push for as much feature parity with the other major browsers, they risk losing even more market share. Microsoft doesn't want that.



    No matter what, for the foreseeable future as has been in the past, web developers will have to target multiple platforms & browsers. It's always been like this. HTML5 hasn't changed that core fact. As far as Apple is concerned they have around 100 million mobile devices that support HTML5. That isn't even counting their Mac division. That is a lot of users that can benefit from HTML5 right now. They don't care about IE at all. It's not even a passing thought.
  • Reply 67 of 319
    Whenever there are innovators they take heat for it. Apple is pushing for the html5 CSS3 standards to be used throughout all browsers. They are showing what is possible.



    I would like them to produce a pro level html editor because I think it would rock.



    They also are targeting a market that the trolls don't understand. Seriously, are you selling high end products to Explorer 6 users?
  • Reply 68 of 319
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    WOW! I'm simply amazed at how many posters are not getting the point of these Safari 4 demos from Apple. I noticed at least TenoBell and foad trying to clear some things up.



    Part of the issue with these demos not working outside of WebKit-based browsers may be due to CSS3 stlll including the webkit- experimental selectors. Every modern browser is using them, once they get accepted the selector falls off. These are not aspects that only Safari can use.



    These demos makes me think Safari and HTML5 will be a focus of the keynote, especally when I consider the email reply from Jobs regarding adding full HTML5 Support ?Soon?. Safari 5 release with full HTML5, CSS3, and some new JS engine? How much has the WebKit nightlies come along? WebKit is positioned to be on more devices than IE ever was in just a couple years. This is a pretty big deal.





    PS: DanielSW, there aren't many rules for this forum so you might want to keep the personal attacks out. Plus, it weakens your argument.
  • Reply 69 of 319
    rorybalmerrorybalmer Posts: 169member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPilya View Post


    First off? the HTML5 demos are technology previews. They are designed to showcase what can be done today and the potential for tomorrow. They were not built to be viewed by anything but Safari since they are geared towards the development community.



    Second off? People really need to ask themselves why its taken 10 years for the move from HTML4 to HTML5. Its a bloody mess and the in-fighting has hurt not only the advances of the web, but the consumer (that is us) as well. The pawns always die first.



    Thirdly? its obvious we have a bunch of morons here so I have compiled a list of direct links to the content as well as which browsers are supported for each demo. Interesting to note what is and what is not supported.



    I should also add and this is important?. that HTML5 needs a huge push from the consumer (that is us again) to really make the browser developers get off their lazy asses and put in HTML5 support. Its simple.. its important? its needed? and its a crime not to.



    S = http://www.apple.com/safari/

    C = http://www.google.com/chrome/

    F = http://www.getfirefox.com/

    O = http://www.opera.com/



    Video {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/video/

    Typography {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...se/typography/

    Gallery {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...wcase/gallery/

    Transitions {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...e/transitions/

    Audio {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/

    360 {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...se/threesixty/

    VR {S}[*]: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/vr/

    Pixels {S,C,F}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...lManipulation/

    Notes {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/StickyNotes/

    Poster {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/ConcertPoster/

    Checkers {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/Checkers/

    Light Table {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/LightTable/

    Calendar {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/OfflineCalendar/

    Trailer {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/MovieTrailers/



    * This demo requires a browser that takes advantage of hardware acceleration. The CSS 3D transforms used in this demo are currently supported only by Safari 4 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard, mobile Safari on iPad or iPhone, or the latest WebKit nightly build.



    Dude, I just gotta be honest hear.. This in itself is an absolutely fantastic post.. really informative and very helpful. But why do you have to be such a dick about it? Doesnt not knowing what you just typed really make me a moron? Like is this comon knowledge that everyone else learned in high school or something?
  • Reply 70 of 319
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    That doesn't matter as much as it used to. IE is loosing market share and it's dominance of the web is over.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    It is not wrong. Read my post. I'm referring to the users of IE and windows ... in other words the lions share of the market!



  • Reply 71 of 319
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foad View Post


    The fact of the matter is that users are moving away from IE for a variety of reasons. They are moving away at an increasing rate. As I mentioned earlier, that is the reason the IE team is trying to implement more standards into IE 9. If they don't push for as much feature parity with the other major browsers, they risk losing even more market share. Microsoft doesn't want that.



    No matter what, for the foreseeable future as has been in the past, web developers will have to target multiple platforms & browsers. It's always been like this. HTML5 hasn't changed that core fact. As far as Apple is concerned they have around 100 million mobile devices that support HTML5. That isn't even counting their Mac division. That is a lot of users that can benefit from HTML5 right now. They don't care about IE at all. It's not even a passing thought.



    This is true ... I remember when IE numbers were close to 90% ... now they are down to 60%. And I've already made the point that this html5 has fantastic potential (even today) on mobile devices. The problem is getting the budget to do a desktop site and a mobile site. Usually customers will tell me to get it to work on both ... and that means dialing out the "cool".
  • Reply 72 of 319
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    All of what you said is for naught. You SHOULDN'T have to explain Apple's position. It should be abundantly clear. If Apple wanted to showcase how HTML5 is the future, they should have posted up the demos on the main page that actually WORK WITH MULTIPLE BROWSERS instead of putting up Safari-specific demos and a "hard check" saying that only Safari is supported and you must download Safari in order to see it work.



    It totally blows a hole in their argument by doing something like this. Whatever happened to "It just works". Pointing to developer pages and having to specifically point out what browser supports what is something that man people are critical about with the "Windows Clan".



    No he had to explain Apple's position to a dumb idiot like you; go to YouTube wi all basement hacks at there $200 WalMarts.
  • Reply 73 of 319
    So what is the problem if IE 9 is better at html5 than Safari? That is the future. Apple is right on the cutting edge of this.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    62% of the US users IE, 4% use Safari. IE9 beta has better HTML5 support than Safari...



    http://www.neowin.net/news/internet-...tml5-compliant



  • Reply 74 of 319
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Apple made it safari only because some browsers don't support html5 like they can, and this ensures they know the demos will work correctly. HTML5 is still new, and since Safari fully supports what they are trying to show, there's no gamble that it'll mess up in another browser, giving users the impression that html5 is buggy.



    Furthermore, it's completely obvious these demos will increase the number of downloads for Safari. Some of those people downloading for the first time will stay with Safari.
  • Reply 75 of 319
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    That doesn't matter as much as it used to. IE is loosing market share and it's dominance of the web is over.



    over 60% worldwide? not over yet. but declining. and that is a good thing.
  • Reply 76 of 319
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thomas Gilling View Post


    No he had to explain Apple's position to a dumb idiot like you; go to YouTube wi all basement hacks at there $200 WalMarts.



    So you registered an account to call someone a dumb idiot, is that it?



    [!]
  • Reply 77 of 319
    cgc0202cgc0202 Posts: 624member
    I am not well-versed and skilled developer. And when I say developer, I do not mean all these website creators who download package CMS add their content and created a website, Then, they tag themselves as developers.



    The developers that Apple are talking about are those individuals who have the skills -- training, experience and expertise -- in programming (scripting), and in this case in depth knowledge of web design also.



    These kinds of developers will know for example that various browsers using different versions of "htmls", some of them are not compatible with what is generally accepted as "standard". The most notorious of this is Internet Explorer. To gain domination in the browser war in the early 1990s, Mircosoft deliberately modified its scripting, e.g., for page layout, image presentation, etc. that did not follow what were considered the standard "html" scripts. The same is true also with the Java scripts.



    Even among the other browsers, if you select a website, and run it through a browser compatibility tester site, you will find that there be slight differences, you will find that the layout, typography, etc. may exhibit nuanced differences among the different browsers.



    Similarly, there are various versions of image presentations, some of them are proprietary, some of them are open source.



    An experienced developer also would know that certain browsers have not adopted html5, as yet. If I am not mistaken, Firefox is one of those that have accepted all the features in the hmtl5 draft.



    Mozilla already is supporting HTML5 in its Firefox browser, the company said.



    Quote:

    "Mozilla has been actively involved in the WHATWG (Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group) applications spec, which is the basis for HTML5," said, Vlad Vukicevic, infrastructuralist for Mozilla, in a statement released by the company. "Firefox 3 supports many parts of the proposed standard, including DOM (Document Object Model) Storage, offline apps, the HTML Canvas, and many smaller features. While we are supporting these parts, there are other parts of the full HTML5 proposal that are still under discussion."



    -- from W3C offers HTML5 draft





    It is not that Firefox did not want to adopt html5, as an open source initiative, it has objection to one of the proposed standards adopted for html5. That standard was developed by a consortium. I believe it is free at the moment, but it is a proprietary technology, even if it was adapted as part of the html5 standards that are still evolving.



    There are other browsers which have not fully adopted the html5 standards as yet.



    Thus, if you attempt to use Firefox or some of these other for the Demo -- more than likely it will not work properly.



    If you are one of those here who complained so vehemently or very obnoxiously why the Demo does not work in the browser of your choice -- beware of the saying: ""Little knowledge can be very dangerous." Obviously, if you use any of these browsers that still have not adopted all the proposed standards in the proposed html5 drafts the demo will not work.



    Moreover, since, it may not work properly in certain browsers, to present the Demo in its optimized format for the "average user" -- clueless users like most of us (myself included) who do not understand and could not careless about creating an optimaly layouted website -- Apple correctly has chosen a browser where all the currently accepted html5 standards are fully functuonal. IN this case, Safari.



    And not just any Safari, but specific versions of Safari. The reason for this -- for the less technical among us (myself included) -- all sort of applications that define the various standards must be in your computer. If you download the latest Safari, for example, it will alert you, if you still do not have these Applications in your computer, or if your computer cannot use these Applications because your computer is too old and cannot support these applications, as configured.



    The other thing that we must know is that html standards, are decided upon by a committee of individuals, many of these individuals are part of corporations, or consortiums of corporations or members of the open source communities. There is no mandate that a company or a group should be part of this consortium. I assume that the members selected because of their expertise. However, since a number of them are members of corporations, there is always jockeying as to what becomes part of those standards.



    Apple would want those standards to be compatible with the technology it was to develop, or wants it already working technology to be among those standards. And so does Microsoft, Google, and any company with stake in the evolving standards for the internet and other devices.



    While Microsoft (MS) is a party to the html5 consortium, it did not stop Microsoft to develop competing technologies, not accepted as standards of the html5.



    Similarly, the open source community would want to ensure that those technologies are open source, rather than proprietary. It is not always the case though. For example, a number of Apple patented technologies make their way to what are considered de-facto standards. While they are under patent, some of them were given away freely but still under license. This restriction prevents other companies from simply copying the patented technology.



    [There is a more technical case, decided in court a year or so ago, where an open source developer group sued a company for appropriating the "open source technology" in question, and commercialized it. The court verdict is too convoluted for me to understand and too technical for me to explain here, but the open source group won the case.]



    CGC
  • Reply 78 of 319
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post


    Dude, I just gotta be honest hear.. This in itself is an absolutely fantastic post.. really informative and very helpful. But why do you have to be such a dick about it? Doesnt not knowing what you just typed really make me a moron? Like is this comon knowledge that everyone else learned in high school or something?



    Now I see why they made it Safari only though. I'm seeing some bugs using Firefox.
  • Reply 79 of 319
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    They are testing beta against a shipping browser. They are supposed to test beta against beta, the story would be different.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    62% of the US users IE, 4% use Safari. IE9 beta has better HTML5 support than Safari...



    http://www.neowin.net/news/internet-...tml5-compliant



  • Reply 80 of 319
    If all browers already supported these demos, they wouldn't represent "the future."



    Some might even call that "What we already got."
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