This is all just silly. Hear me now and believe me later, this investigation will go nowhere. Apple's not even close to a monopoly position in the phone market, and the Feds -- even if they acted -- would be summarily overruled by the courts.
It's Apple's playground, and if they tell everyone to get off, they have to get off. They didn't have to "open" the platform to applications to begin with. Do you think it would be illegal for them to close the AppStore? Of course not. Why? Because it's their playground, it's their platform, it's their rules. They're not a monopoly, so if the consumer doesn't like it, they have plenty of other options. If Apple wants to close the platform to 1) apps, 2) ads, 3) books, 4) whatever, it's their business. The Feds might have a case when Apple enjoys an 80% market share, before then, to put it in legalese, they can suck eggs.
When businesses compete they tend to not help their competition. It would be a strange competitve landscape if all competitors were legally required to help their competitors. Antitrust law is the check on conspiracies between competitors to reduce or eliminate competition, or to regulate a business that has become so successful that it has a monopoly, which is inherently anticompetitive.
All a competitor has to do is complain that Apple - who are proving to be extremely successful with their device/management ecosystem - are being anti-competitive, to the FTC and the DoJ to get a review initiated. This is just one tool among many that allows less successful competitors to try and put the brakes on the more successful ones. And the Feds are more than happy to oblige on consumers' behalf. The complaint doesn't have to have real merit, and many of these complaints are shelved on review when (as has happened several times before for most large corporations) the target is shown to not be having the impact claimed. Usually the complaints are used when a competitor has no other option - in short they have run out of their own ideas or can't drive the business as successfully another.
Those who claim that Apple needs to be more open are essentially either competitors who want access to Apple's market, or IP, or are simply ideologues who believe that "Open" is a successful business plan - that giving away the farm is the way to be most profitable. Which is of course a significant logic fail.
The only reason you even know about this now is that Apple has a huge amount of media cachet right now and thus when the media comb the sources for Apple this stuff comes up. 10-15 years ago no one really cared, and the media thought this was boring. But since Apple has been resurrected, and is apparently driving an extremely successful business model (thus making it intrinsically interesting) based on its string of successes, you get all the news - whether it's fit to print or not. I wouldn't be surprised if Valleywag or some other Gawker media tool started a best of Steve Jobs farts review, an "I had Steve Jobs love child" counter, or something just to gain some additional hits and presence validity. That's the level of media interest that is driving all this.
Speaking of Google maps, when is Google going to be "open" and bring the same voice navigation to the iPhone that they are releasing for Android phones?
Google's "closed" and "uncompetitive" stance regarding this should also be investigated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu
So Apple are now Microsoft from ten years ago, and their pathetic war with Google goes up another gear. I wish they'd just grow up and stop acting like spoilt little children.
Hey Apple, open = good, closed = bad.
I just hope Google don't fire back and block google maps from the iPhone or something as equally retarded as Apple banning google ads.
What kind of madness is this? Apple has created a platform concisting of hardware/software. iDevices and iOS. It's Apple's platform, they can do with it whatever they like. Apple decided to extend this platform with an add-program to support developers for the iOS platform. Apple's platform, not Googles. Every AdMob ad sold is money straight down Google's coffers. This is, needless to say, NOT in the interest of Apple, and they'd have to be crazy to let Google steal their ad revenue on their own platform.
How the h... can Apple be told by regulators to let their worst competitor into Apple's own shop and snatch that add-money for themselves?? It doesn't make sense!
AdMob is owned by Google, Apple's biggest competitor, and Google has a mobile platform of their own, directly competing with Apple's iPhone. They can do all the AdMob advertising they want on their own Android phones, same as Apple is doing with iAds on iPhones. THAT's competition, Mr.AdMob. But it's crazy to expect that you can march into your competitors store and set up shop for yourself in the corner. That's effectively what AdMob/Google is whining about here.
Plus I can't imagine it will be too long now until google maps is scrapped on the iPhone in favour of an Apple home grown map service. I'm surprised it wasn't revealed this week.
So Apple are now Microsoft from ten years ago, and their pathetic war with Google goes up another gear. I wish they'd just grow up and stop acting like spoilt little children.
Hey Apple, open = good, closed = bad.
I just hope Google don't fire back and block google maps from the iPhone or something as equally retarded as Apple banning google ads.
...your gilded place on my ignore list. Just curious - do you have a top ten lists of abjectly silly phrases you recycle, or are you simply OCD on this stuff?
Google pays good money TO Apple to be on the devices - in case you had missed that tiny little fact. They obviously highly value inclusion in the Apple ecosystem.
Hey kotatsu, open = no profits, controlled = highly profitable
And again Apple has NOT blocked Google ads and Google still figures prominently as a search engine in the devices. I know, I'm sorry: factual reality is a bit hard to digest sometimes.
In other news, the FTC is looking into a complaint by Best Buy that Target will not allow billboards of Target's competitors to be placed in Target's parking lots and poster ads inside its store. Best Buy's director of marketing stated: "Target is setting artificial barriers to competition that hurts customers and product manufactures and, in the long run, stalls retail progress." Alhough Target built the parking lot and store for its own business, Best Buy believes it should have the right to use Target's property to promote Best Buy's business.
Speaking of Google maps, when is Google going to be "open" and bring the same voice navigation to the iPhone that they are releasing for Android phones?
Google's "closed" and "uncompetitive" stance regarding this should also be investigated.
If they did, do you think it would be approved? Although Google Earth and Google Mobile were approved early on, no recent Google apps have been approved. Latitude and Google Voice were denied. You honestly think their free nav app would be approved? Keep dreaming.
Not only is this not true, it's the reduction of complex issues to ridiculous jingoism like this that's the main problem.
"Open," is not *always* good and is basically impossible to define anyway because it means 100's of different things to different people.
Is Apple actually doing anything specifically wrong with their recent moves in regards mobile advertising? It seems what Apple is saying is that they will allow advertisers on the platform who don't also own their own competing platform. Seems reasonable to me.
The only thing these investigations mean is that Apple's competitors are scared to death and have nothing to compete with in the marketplace. So, they complain to the government that Apple's business model is killing them. Frankly, I'm glad to hear it. The investigation of a complain is a healthy thing and should happen. The investigation has no bearing on whether or not Apple has done anything wrong, besides win big in the marketplace.
On a different note. I am giddy that Apple is so successful, they are considered by their enemies as a monopoly that defies competition. Think about that. What are the areas competitors are accusing Apple hoof monopolizing? Smartphones? Great computers? Amazing OS? Coolness? They say imitation is the highest form of flattery. I say an FTC complaint may be even higher.
In other news, the FTC is looking into a complaint by Best Buy that Target will not allow billboards of Target's competitors to be placed in Target's parking lots and poster ads inside its store. Best Buy's director of marketing stated: "Target is setting artificial barriers to competition that hurts customers and product manufactures and, in the long run, stalls retail progress." Alhough Target built the parking lot and store for its own business, Best Buy believes it should have the right to use Target's property to promote Best Buy's business.
Coming to think of it; How does Google feel about iAds on Android? Anybody know?
I'm guessing Apple won't put it on there, to give the iPhone a competitive advantage After all, Apple isn't in it to make a profit from ads, it's in there to make a profit for developers, which then allow cheaper apps, which encourage hardware sales.
BTW, does anyone actually know how much percentage of revenue do advertising companies usually charge, because iAd is going for 40% of the revenue. Does Admob charge more?
EDIT: Heh, interesting... I found out that Google charges 49% on its ads revenue for Adsense. I guess that is industry standard until now?
Comments
This is all just silly. Hear me now and believe me later, this investigation will go nowhere. Apple's not even close to a monopoly position in the phone market, and the Feds -- even if they acted -- would be summarily overruled by the courts.
It's Apple's playground, and if they tell everyone to get off, they have to get off. They didn't have to "open" the platform to applications to begin with. Do you think it would be illegal for them to close the AppStore? Of course not. Why? Because it's their playground, it's their platform, it's their rules. They're not a monopoly, so if the consumer doesn't like it, they have plenty of other options. If Apple wants to close the platform to 1) apps, 2) ads, 3) books, 4) whatever, it's their business. The Feds might have a case when Apple enjoys an 80% market share, before then, to put it in legalese, they can suck eggs.
When businesses compete they tend to not help their competition. It would be a strange competitve landscape if all competitors were legally required to help their competitors. Antitrust law is the check on conspiracies between competitors to reduce or eliminate competition, or to regulate a business that has become so successful that it has a monopoly, which is inherently anticompetitive.
Those who claim that Apple needs to be more open are essentially either competitors who want access to Apple's market, or IP, or are simply ideologues who believe that "Open" is a successful business plan - that giving away the farm is the way to be most profitable. Which is of course a significant logic fail.
The only reason you even know about this now is that Apple has a huge amount of media cachet right now and thus when the media comb the sources for Apple this stuff comes up. 10-15 years ago no one really cared, and the media thought this was boring. But since Apple has been resurrected, and is apparently driving an extremely successful business model (thus making it intrinsically interesting) based on its string of successes, you get all the news - whether it's fit to print or not. I wouldn't be surprised if Valleywag or some other Gawker media tool started a best of Steve Jobs farts review, an "I had Steve Jobs love child" counter, or something just to gain some additional hits and presence validity. That's the level of media interest that is driving all this.
In other news, Walmart is furious it cannot advertise at Target stores nationwide
Google's "closed" and "uncompetitive" stance regarding this should also be investigated.
So Apple are now Microsoft from ten years ago, and their pathetic war with Google goes up another gear. I wish they'd just grow up and stop acting like spoilt little children.
Hey Apple, open = good, closed = bad.
I just hope Google don't fire back and block google maps from the iPhone or something as equally retarded as Apple banning google ads.
How the h... can Apple be told by regulators to let their worst competitor into Apple's own shop and snatch that add-money for themselves?? It doesn't make sense!
AdMob is owned by Google, Apple's biggest competitor, and Google has a mobile platform of their own, directly competing with Apple's iPhone. They can do all the AdMob advertising they want on their own Android phones, same as Apple is doing with iAds on iPhones. THAT's competition, Mr.AdMob. But it's crazy to expect that you can march into your competitors store and set up shop for yourself in the corner. That's effectively what AdMob/Google is whining about here.
While Apple & Google are fighting it out and distracted, Microsoft may rise to the top again.
I would not hold your breath. If they actually had (ever had) a grain of innovation then that might be possible but as it is ....
Plus I can't imagine it will be too long now until google maps is scrapped on the iPhone in favour of an Apple home grown map service. I'm surprised it wasn't revealed this week.
My exact thought ...
So Apple are now Microsoft from ten years ago, and their pathetic war with Google goes up another gear. I wish they'd just grow up and stop acting like spoilt little children.
Hey Apple, open = good, closed = bad.
I just hope Google don't fire back and block google maps from the iPhone or something as equally retarded as Apple banning google ads.
...your gilded place on my ignore list. Just curious - do you have a top ten lists of abjectly silly phrases you recycle, or are you simply OCD on this stuff?
Google pays good money TO Apple to be on the devices - in case you had missed that tiny little fact. They obviously highly value inclusion in the Apple ecosystem.
Hey kotatsu, open = no profits, controlled = highly profitable
And again Apple has NOT blocked Google ads and Google still figures prominently as a search engine in the devices. I know, I'm sorry: factual reality is a bit hard to digest sometimes.
Where did all the editors go? Or the teachers?
In other news, the FTC is looking into a complaint by Best Buy that Target will not allow billboards of Target's competitors to be placed in Target's parking lots and poster ads inside its store. Best Buy's director of marketing stated: "Target is setting artificial barriers to competition that hurts customers and product manufactures and, in the long run, stalls retail progress." Alhough Target built the parking lot and store for its own business, Best Buy believes it should have the right to use Target's property to promote Best Buy's business.
Fabulous! Made my day...
I just hope Google don't fire back and block google maps from the iPhone or something as equally retarded as Apple banning google ads.
If not for Google's help, it is much less likely that the iPhone would have taken off in the market.
Google Maps
YouTube
Google Search in Safari
Etc.
Speaking of Google maps, when is Google going to be "open" and bring the same voice navigation to the iPhone that they are releasing for Android phones?
Google's "closed" and "uncompetitive" stance regarding this should also be investigated.
If they did, do you think it would be approved? Although Google Earth and Google Mobile were approved early on, no recent Google apps have been approved. Latitude and Google Voice were denied. You honestly think their free nav app would be approved? Keep dreaming.
If I were Apple, I wouldn't leave the door of my house open for the burglar either.
But this is NOT Apple's house.
It is YOUR cellphone.
It is more analogous to the carpenter telling you which house guests you are allowed to have.
... Hey Apple, open = good, closed = bad. ...
Not only is this not true, it's the reduction of complex issues to ridiculous jingoism like this that's the main problem.
"Open," is not *always* good and is basically impossible to define anyway because it means 100's of different things to different people.
Is Apple actually doing anything specifically wrong with their recent moves in regards mobile advertising? It seems what Apple is saying is that they will allow advertisers on the platform who don't also own their own competing platform. Seems reasonable to me.
So how does Apple have a monopoly on the phone market?
Obviously, they don't. They are not even in the top 5.
Nobody is using "a monopoly on the phone market" as the basis for anything.
On a different note. I am giddy that Apple is so successful, they are considered by their enemies as a monopoly that defies competition. Think about that. What are the areas competitors are accusing Apple hoof monopolizing? Smartphones? Great computers? Amazing OS? Coolness? They say imitation is the highest form of flattery. I say an FTC complaint may be even higher.
In other news, the FTC is looking into a complaint by Best Buy that Target will not allow billboards of Target's competitors to be placed in Target's parking lots and poster ads inside its store. Best Buy's director of marketing stated: "Target is setting artificial barriers to competition that hurts customers and product manufactures and, in the long run, stalls retail progress." Alhough Target built the parking lot and store for its own business, Best Buy believes it should have the right to use Target's property to promote Best Buy's business.
Exactly.
Coming to think of it; How does Google feel about iAds on Android? Anybody know?
I'm guessing Apple won't put it on there, to give the iPhone a competitive advantage
BTW, does anyone actually know how much percentage of revenue do advertising companies usually charge, because iAd is going for 40% of the revenue. Does Admob charge more?
EDIT: Heh, interesting... I found out that Google charges 49% on its ads revenue for Adsense. I guess that is industry standard until now?
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Enterprise-...-Share-438830/