It has not yet been released. How can it be a fail?
Because it hasn't been released?
It's been 3 years since the iPhone came out and there STILL isn't a version of Flash for mobiles. That's why the industry is rushing to find alternatives (remember all those sites I listed?). Adobe blew it - the mobile industry has moved on without them.
BTW, it's really rather funny when you Flash shills insist that Flash is available for mobile devices on one hand (citing a slow, buggy beta that has been circulating for a few months) but when it suits your purposes, you say that it's not there yet so we have to wait even longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
perhaps I mistakenly quoted you as implying that. It appears it was jragosta which I guess isn't a surprise. Sorry.
No, it's NOT a surprise that you're making up lies about me. I never said that, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
I don't know who those people were. But floppies was dying fast before Mr. Jobs said anything about it. There were enough alternatives (like usb floppies I believe) that if someone really wanted it they could have it. It wasn't like STeve Jobs said "you're NOt allowed to have floppies on os x!"
Nice revisionism-you're 100% wrong. EVERY OTHER COMPUTER VENDOR had floppies on every computer they sold when Apple launched the iMac. EVERY ONE. Do some searching and read the computer press at the time. Virtually every article labeled the iMac as a fail because of its lack of a floppy drive. Given your level of 'discourse' and your lack of knowledge of what happened even as recently as the mid-90's, I'm guessing that you're a teenager who was barely out of diapers at the time.
And, as has been pointed out, the iMac wasn't released with OS X. You really should stick to discussing topics you know something about.
It was 1998, optical media slot was still very new and expensive. The far majority of computers still had floppy drives, even though it was inevitable that floppy was over.
Apple totally abandoned floppy while it was still widely used. At the time people thought they were crazy. Its only in revision that it doesn't seem so cray.
sure, there were still a lot of people who did use it. But, it was already, in very fast decline, certainly no one I knew used it, I stopped using it, Mac users, the ones without preinstalled floppies, had either a zip drive, a floppy which did everything a floppy did, and more, and, could easily spend 50 bucks on a usb floppy should they need the compatibility.
Steve Jobs didn't say, floppies run badly, you are simply not allowed to have one on a mac. Big difference. When Steve Jobs disallowed anyone from having flash on their iphone, flash was not in decline, whatsoever. Despite it not running as well on a mac as the pc, at the time.
It's been 3 years since the iPhone came out and there STILL isn't a version of Flash for mobiles. That's why the industry is rushing to find alternatives (remember all those sites I listed?). Adobe blew it - the mobile industry has moved on without them.
BTW, it's really rather funny when you Flash shills insist that Flash is available for mobile devices on one hand (citing a slow, buggy beta that has been circulating for a few months) but when it suits your purposes, you say that it's not there yet so we have to wait even longer.
No, it's NOT a surprise that you're making up lies about me. I never said that, either.
Nice revisionism-you're 100% wrong. EVERY OTHER COMPUTER VENDOR had floppies on every computer they sold when Apple launched the iMac. EVERY ONE. Do some searching and read the computer press at the time. Virtually every article labeled the iMac as a fail because of its lack of a floppy drive. Given your level of 'discourse' and your lack of knowledge of what happened even as recently as the mid-90's, I'm guessing that you're a teenager who was barely out of diapers at the time.
And, as has been pointed out, the iMac wasn't released with OS X. You really should stick to discussing topics you know something about.
man you need to ah, drink some herbal tea. Or... something.
here, before you continue shrieking. This is where you said it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
*cough* Safari *cough*
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Yes most peecees had a floppy, many people still used them. And yes the media, who likes to bash apple any chance they get, moaned and wailed about it. But truthfully, even though peecees had them, many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
... But truthfully, even though peecees had [floppy drives], many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
For the sake of argument, we'll assume you are correct. Wouldn't this pretty much describe the situation with Flash? With ad blockers and tools like ClickToFlash many many people have it installed but actively avoid using it. Many buy mobile devices that don't have it at all and do just fine without it. Looks like, by your definition, Flash is in fast decline.
For the sake of argument, we'll assume you are correct. Wouldn't this pretty much describe the situation with Flash? With ad blockers and tools like ClickToFlash many many people have it installed but actively avoid using it. Many buy mobile devices that don't have it at all and do just fine without it. Looks like, by your definition, Flash is in fast decline.
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
This is a bit of revisionist history. People have been using ad blockers to block Flash since before the iPhone came out, so, going along with the logic of your original analogy, Flash was already very much in decline. That Apple saw that is probably why they felt completely comfortable in not having Flash on their platform.
Quote:
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
I wouldn't qualify it with "almost". It is stillborn. And, it's not just a "small minority" of ClickToFlash users. There are quite a few users on all platforms who actively and intentionally block Flash using ad blockers and other techniques. Flash is already widely not used.
This is a bit of revisionist history. People have been using ad blockers to block Flash since before the iPhone came out, so, going along with the logic of your original analogy, Flash was already very much in decline. That Apple saw that is probably why they felt completely comfortable in not having Flash on their platform.
I wouldn't qualify it with "almost". It is stillborn. And, it's not just a "small minority" of ClickToFlash users. There are quite a few users on all platforms who actively and intentionally block Flash using ad blockers and other techniques. Flash is already widely not used.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
"they"? This is kind of like the peecee guys who build their own peecees, and keep upgrading their video cards, thinking they represent the majority. The ones who bash macs because, they're not upgradable. Or some crap. In actuality, they represent a fraction of users. Apple proved that hands down.
They're the minority. SO are the ones who actively block flash, or hate flash. Truthfully, no one cares that much (except for us few on forums), and there are plenty of crappy performing sites not even based on flash.
Will flash die? I really don't know. It's truthfully, out of -my- hands. I can say I love the -development- platform, so do a lot of developers. That accounts for a lot. We'll see where it goes I guess. I also love developing php based sites.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
Ad blockers are only part of it. There are widely used tools on all platforms specifically for blocking Flash and only Flash. As for installing Flash, it comes mostly preinstalled on the OS these days. But, this whole subthread is related to the Flash/floppy drive analogy, and the point is that Flash is widely not used.
Ad blockers are only part of it. There are widely used tools on all platforms specifically for blocking Flash and only Flash. As for installing Flash, it comes mostly preinstalled on the OS these days. But, this whole subthread is related to the Flash/floppy drive analogy, and the point is that Flash is widely not used.
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Anyone with the nous to install ClickToFlash would be able to uninstall Flash or just not install it in the first place.
man you need to ah, drink some herbal tea. Or... something.
here, before you continue shrieking. This is where you said it:
Please read the thread.
The quote you just provided said that I claimed that Chrome, Opera, and Firefox were more complex than Flash (if you go back and read what I was responding to). YOU are the only one who dragged CS5 into that. No one in their right mind would think that Flash was more complex than CS5. Please stop making things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
Yes most peecees had a floppy, many people still used them. And yes the media, who likes to bash apple any chance they get, moaned and wailed about it. But truthfully, even though peecees had them, many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
Nonsense. Go back and read the journals at the time. You were obviously not around then or you're remember the huge uproar that decision caused. At the time, a large portion of software was supplied on Floppies. Floppies were the major means of transferring files to people. It was a gutsy move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
You finally are getting closer to the truth. Flash is STILLBORN on mobile devices - and given the number of sites that have worked around it, that's not likely to change.
As for the desktop, the number of Clicktoflash users is apparently growing at very rapid rates, that means that Flash on the desktop IS in decline - whether you want to admit it or not.
Not to mention, of course, that many web developers are now using tools to make Flash even less 'necessary'.
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Anyone with the nous to install ClickToFlash would be able to uninstall Flash or just not install it in the first place.
Did people uninstall their floppy drives when they stopped using them?
... Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
First of all, let's not get hung up on the semantics of "dead". Is Flash dead in the sense that no one any longer ever uses it, in the sense that it's extinct? No, it isn't.
But, throughout this thread and others on this topic, I and several others have pointed out why Flash faces serious problems that it simply can't overcome, and which it's not worth people waiting for them to overcome when there is an alternative in HTML5.
Despite this, it is repeated over and over again that Flash isn't dead, it's not even dying, it's not going away anytime soon, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. And the only argument used to support this is that it's everywhere, everyone has it installed, and variations on that theme. Even the argument against the analogy with Floppy drives fails.
Flash is dead in the sense that it is a technology that is destined for the technology dustbin. It's dead in the sense that it's going to become irrelevant in the near-term future. So, call it dead, terminally ill, doomed, whatever word or phrase you prefer, but it's fate is decided and the only question is how long it has to "live". I give it 2-5 years.
That's not the same and you know it. The point is if you don't want to use Flash at all, do you:
a.) Install an extra piece of software that blocks flash until you click. Remember, ClickToFlash does not disable Flash.
b.) Either remove flash or just don't install it in the first place.
Hint, the answer isn't a.)
Actually, it is very much the same. People are lazy or technically challenged. If they don't want Flash, they will, just as with the floppy drive, do the easiest thing for them to not use it. If I'm a Firefox user, and I see there's this no-brainer to install Flash blocker available that will, to my mind, improve my browsing experience, what am I going to do:
a) spend the time to figure out how to uninstall Flash, or
And the only argument used to support this is that it's everywhere, everyone has it installed, and variations on that theme.
I don't think that's the main argument at all. I think it's much more to do with the development tools and that web developers don't have HTML5 tools that come anywhere close to the capabilities of the Flash development tools.
Now Adobe has no competition, who is going to provide these HTML5 development tools?
The quote you just provided said that I claimed that Chrome, Opera, and Firefox were more complex than Flash (if you go back and read what I was responding to). YOU are the only one who dragged CS5 into that. No one in their right mind would think that Flash was more complex than CS5. Please stop making things up.
last time I checked, flash is currently, flash CS5. It's a rather complex platform, the whole IDE, the compiler, the player, flex, etc etc. It's better to be clearer when you get into something, especially if you have very little knowledge about a platform you're talkig about.
Quote:
Nonsense. Go back and read the journals at the time. You were obviously not around then or you're remember the huge uproar that decision caused. At the time, a large portion of software was supplied on Floppies. Floppies were the major means of transferring files to people. It was a gutsy move.
Not around? Sure pal. My computer classes in high school consisted of filling out data cards. In 1998, I recall most of my software coming on CD.
Quote:
You finally are getting closer to the truth. Flash is STILLBORN on mobile devices - and given the number of sites that have worked around it, that's not likely to change.
closer to the truth? If we all have brain cells correctly functioning, what I stated is the case. If it wasn't for Nokia smartphones running a version of flash, and flash 10.1 in beat public release on android, I would have siad 'stillborn', not -almost- stillborn. You need to relax...
Quote:
As for the desktop, the number of Clicktoflash users is apparently growing at very rapid rates, that means that Flash on the desktop IS in decline - whether you want to admit it or not.
Not to mention, of course, that many web developers are now using tools to make Flash even less 'necessary'.
what are the stats? And what "tools" are you talking about? New development platforms? I know adobe released new html5 for dreamweaver recently, even though it's apparently supposed to... kill flash...
I don't think that's the main argument at all. I think it's much more to do with the development tools and that web developers don't have HTML5 tools that come anywhere close to the capabilities of the Flash development tools.
Now Adobe has no competition, who is going to provide these HTML5 development tools?
this is a point that always seems to be completely missed.
When, and if, development tools are as good or better than what we have in the flash IDE, along with the powerful capabilities (along with less cross browser nonsense, another point missed often) then, we may really, start seeing a death knell being sounded.
But this is generally something developers are aware of. The storey is sooo much more than just the player.
last time I checked, flash is currently, flash CS5. It's a rather complex platform, the whole IDE, the compiler, the player, flex, etc etc. It's better to be clearer when you get into something, especially if you have very little knowledge about a platform you're talkig about.
ROTFLMAO.
So you're publicly stating that you can't tell the difference between a Flash player and the entire CS5 suite?
So you're publicly stating that you can't tell the difference between a Flash player and the entire CS5 suite?
That's really pretty embarrassing.
you seem to have a lot of trouble with reading. It tends to derail a conversation. I notice I'm not the only one seeing this. Anyway. When you can get back on track, great. Enjoy your merry-go-round.
Comments
It has not yet been released. How can it be a fail?
Because it hasn't been released?
It's been 3 years since the iPhone came out and there STILL isn't a version of Flash for mobiles. That's why the industry is rushing to find alternatives (remember all those sites I listed?). Adobe blew it - the mobile industry has moved on without them.
BTW, it's really rather funny when you Flash shills insist that Flash is available for mobile devices on one hand (citing a slow, buggy beta that has been circulating for a few months) but when it suits your purposes, you say that it's not there yet so we have to wait even longer.
perhaps I mistakenly quoted you as implying that. It appears it was jragosta which I guess isn't a surprise. Sorry.
No, it's NOT a surprise that you're making up lies about me. I never said that, either.
I don't know who those people were. But floppies was dying fast before Mr. Jobs said anything about it. There were enough alternatives (like usb floppies I believe) that if someone really wanted it they could have it. It wasn't like STeve Jobs said "you're NOt allowed to have floppies on os x!"
Nice revisionism-you're 100% wrong. EVERY OTHER COMPUTER VENDOR had floppies on every computer they sold when Apple launched the iMac. EVERY ONE. Do some searching and read the computer press at the time. Virtually every article labeled the iMac as a fail because of its lack of a floppy drive. Given your level of 'discourse' and your lack of knowledge of what happened even as recently as the mid-90's, I'm guessing that you're a teenager who was barely out of diapers at the time.
And, as has been pointed out, the iMac wasn't released with OS X. You really should stick to discussing topics you know something about.
It was 1998, optical media slot was still very new and expensive. The far majority of computers still had floppy drives, even though it was inevitable that floppy was over.
Apple totally abandoned floppy while it was still widely used. At the time people thought they were crazy. Its only in revision that it doesn't seem so cray.
sure, there were still a lot of people who did use it. But, it was already, in very fast decline, certainly no one I knew used it, I stopped using it, Mac users, the ones without preinstalled floppies, had either a zip drive, a floppy which did everything a floppy did, and more, and, could easily spend 50 bucks on a usb floppy should they need the compatibility.
Steve Jobs didn't say, floppies run badly, you are simply not allowed to have one on a mac. Big difference. When Steve Jobs disallowed anyone from having flash on their iphone, flash was not in decline, whatsoever. Despite it not running as well on a mac as the pc, at the time.
Because it hasn't been released?
It's been 3 years since the iPhone came out and there STILL isn't a version of Flash for mobiles. That's why the industry is rushing to find alternatives (remember all those sites I listed?). Adobe blew it - the mobile industry has moved on without them.
BTW, it's really rather funny when you Flash shills insist that Flash is available for mobile devices on one hand (citing a slow, buggy beta that has been circulating for a few months) but when it suits your purposes, you say that it's not there yet so we have to wait even longer.
No, it's NOT a surprise that you're making up lies about me. I never said that, either.
Nice revisionism-you're 100% wrong. EVERY OTHER COMPUTER VENDOR had floppies on every computer they sold when Apple launched the iMac. EVERY ONE. Do some searching and read the computer press at the time. Virtually every article labeled the iMac as a fail because of its lack of a floppy drive. Given your level of 'discourse' and your lack of knowledge of what happened even as recently as the mid-90's, I'm guessing that you're a teenager who was barely out of diapers at the time.
And, as has been pointed out, the iMac wasn't released with OS X. You really should stick to discussing topics you know something about.
man you need to ah, drink some herbal tea. Or... something.
here, before you continue shrieking. This is where you said it:
*cough* Safari *cough*
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Yes most peecees had a floppy, many people still used them. And yes the media, who likes to bash apple any chance they get, moaned and wailed about it. But truthfully, even though peecees had them, many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
... But truthfully, even though peecees had [floppy drives], many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
For the sake of argument, we'll assume you are correct. Wouldn't this pretty much describe the situation with Flash? With ad blockers and tools like ClickToFlash many many people have it installed but actively avoid using it. Many buy mobile devices that don't have it at all and do just fine without it. Looks like, by your definition, Flash is in fast decline.
For the sake of argument, we'll assume you are correct. Wouldn't this pretty much describe the situation with Flash? With ad blockers and tools like ClickToFlash many many people have it installed but actively avoid using it. Many buy mobile devices that don't have it at all and do just fine without it. Looks like, by your definition, Flash is in fast decline.
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
This is a bit of revisionist history. People have been using ad blockers to block Flash since before the iPhone came out, so, going along with the logic of your original analogy, Flash was already very much in decline. That Apple saw that is probably why they felt completely comfortable in not having Flash on their platform.
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
I wouldn't qualify it with "almost". It is stillborn. And, it's not just a "small minority" of ClickToFlash users. There are quite a few users on all platforms who actively and intentionally block Flash using ad blockers and other techniques. Flash is already widely not used.
This is a bit of revisionist history. People have been using ad blockers to block Flash since before the iPhone came out, so, going along with the logic of your original analogy, Flash was already very much in decline. That Apple saw that is probably why they felt completely comfortable in not having Flash on their platform.
I wouldn't qualify it with "almost". It is stillborn. And, it's not just a "small minority" of ClickToFlash users. There are quite a few users on all platforms who actively and intentionally block Flash using ad blockers and other techniques. Flash is already widely not used.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
"they"? This is kind of like the peecee guys who build their own peecees, and keep upgrading their video cards, thinking they represent the majority. The ones who bash macs because, they're not upgradable. Or some crap. In actuality, they represent a fraction of users. Apple proved that hands down.
They're the minority. SO are the ones who actively block flash, or hate flash. Truthfully, no one cares that much (except for us few on forums), and there are plenty of crappy performing sites not even based on flash.
Will flash die? I really don't know. It's truthfully, out of -my- hands. I can say I love the -development- platform, so do a lot of developers. That accounts for a lot. We'll see where it goes I guess. I also love developing php based sites.
You've said it yourself - the blockers are mostly about blocking ads, not about eliminating all Flash content. If ClickToFlash users didn't use Flash, they wouldn't install Flash and therefore wouldn't need ClickToFlash. The whole point is that they need Flash but are annoyed by much Flash content so install ClickToFlash.
Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
Ad blockers are only part of it. There are widely used tools on all platforms specifically for blocking Flash and only Flash. As for installing Flash, it comes mostly preinstalled on the OS these days. But, this whole subthread is related to the Flash/floppy drive analogy, and the point is that Flash is widely not used.
Ad blockers are only part of it. There are widely used tools on all platforms specifically for blocking Flash and only Flash. As for installing Flash, it comes mostly preinstalled on the OS these days. But, this whole subthread is related to the Flash/floppy drive analogy, and the point is that Flash is widely not used.
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Anyone with the nous to install ClickToFlash would be able to uninstall Flash or just not install it in the first place.
man you need to ah, drink some herbal tea. Or... something.
here, before you continue shrieking. This is where you said it:
Please read the thread.
The quote you just provided said that I claimed that Chrome, Opera, and Firefox were more complex than Flash (if you go back and read what I was responding to). YOU are the only one who dragged CS5 into that. No one in their right mind would think that Flash was more complex than CS5. Please stop making things up.
Yes most peecees had a floppy, many people still used them. And yes the media, who likes to bash apple any chance they get, moaned and wailed about it. But truthfully, even though peecees had them, many many people were no longer using them. It was already, in fast decline.
Nonsense. Go back and read the journals at the time. You were obviously not around then or you're remember the huge uproar that decision caused. At the time, a large portion of software was supplied on Floppies. Floppies were the major means of transferring files to people. It was a gutsy move.
no. My point is, at the point apple released the iphone, and said no to flash, flash was not at all, in any state of decline. The floppy drive, was very much in decline when apple began dropping support for it. Of course the other difference is apple didn't prevent floppies from operating on macs either.
Not a good analogy. Is there a decline in flash now? On the desktop, no I wouldn't say so. A small minority of clickForFlash users wouldn't really dent that. But in the mobile space,there's no "decline", it's almost stillborn at the moment.
You finally are getting closer to the truth. Flash is STILLBORN on mobile devices - and given the number of sites that have worked around it, that's not likely to change.
As for the desktop, the number of Clicktoflash users is apparently growing at very rapid rates, that means that Flash on the desktop IS in decline - whether you want to admit it or not.
Not to mention, of course, that many web developers are now using tools to make Flash even less 'necessary'.
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Anyone with the nous to install ClickToFlash would be able to uninstall Flash or just not install it in the first place.
Did people uninstall their floppy drives when they stopped using them?
Did people uninstall their floppy drives when they stopped using them?
a.) Install an extra piece of software that blocks flash until you click. Remember, ClickToFlash does not disable Flash.
b.) Either remove flash or just don't install it in the first place.
Hint, the answer isn't a.)
... Personally, I wish that Flash was as dead as you think it is; unfortunately it isn't.
First of all, let's not get hung up on the semantics of "dead". Is Flash dead in the sense that no one any longer ever uses it, in the sense that it's extinct? No, it isn't.
But, throughout this thread and others on this topic, I and several others have pointed out why Flash faces serious problems that it simply can't overcome, and which it's not worth people waiting for them to overcome when there is an alternative in HTML5.
Despite this, it is repeated over and over again that Flash isn't dead, it's not even dying, it's not going away anytime soon, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. And the only argument used to support this is that it's everywhere, everyone has it installed, and variations on that theme. Even the argument against the analogy with Floppy drives fails.
Flash is dead in the sense that it is a technology that is destined for the technology dustbin. It's dead in the sense that it's going to become irrelevant in the near-term future. So, call it dead, terminally ill, doomed, whatever word or phrase you prefer, but it's fate is decided and the only question is how long it has to "live". I give it 2-5 years.
a.) Install an extra piece of software that blocks flash until you click. Remember, ClickToFlash does not disable Flash.
b.) Either remove flash or just don't install it in the first place.
Hint, the answer isn't a.)
Actually, it is very much the same. People are lazy or technically challenged. If they don't want Flash, they will, just as with the floppy drive, do the easiest thing for them to not use it. If I'm a Firefox user, and I see there's this no-brainer to install Flash blocker available that will, to my mind, improve my browsing experience, what am I going to do:
a) spend the time to figure out how to uninstall Flash, or
b) click on the link that says, "Add to Firefox"?
Hint, the answer isn't (a).
And the only argument used to support this is that it's everywhere, everyone has it installed, and variations on that theme.
I don't think that's the main argument at all. I think it's much more to do with the development tools and that web developers don't have HTML5 tools that come anywhere close to the capabilities of the Flash development tools.
Now Adobe has no competition, who is going to provide these HTML5 development tools?
Please read the thread.
The quote you just provided said that I claimed that Chrome, Opera, and Firefox were more complex than Flash (if you go back and read what I was responding to). YOU are the only one who dragged CS5 into that. No one in their right mind would think that Flash was more complex than CS5. Please stop making things up.
last time I checked, flash is currently, flash CS5. It's a rather complex platform, the whole IDE, the compiler, the player, flex, etc etc. It's better to be clearer when you get into something, especially if you have very little knowledge about a platform you're talkig about.
Nonsense. Go back and read the journals at the time. You were obviously not around then or you're remember the huge uproar that decision caused. At the time, a large portion of software was supplied on Floppies. Floppies were the major means of transferring files to people. It was a gutsy move.
Not around? Sure pal. My computer classes in high school consisted of filling out data cards. In 1998, I recall most of my software coming on CD.
You finally are getting closer to the truth. Flash is STILLBORN on mobile devices - and given the number of sites that have worked around it, that's not likely to change.
closer to the truth? If we all have brain cells correctly functioning, what I stated is the case. If it wasn't for Nokia smartphones running a version of flash, and flash 10.1 in beat public release on android, I would have siad 'stillborn', not -almost- stillborn. You need to relax...
As for the desktop, the number of Clicktoflash users is apparently growing at very rapid rates, that means that Flash on the desktop IS in decline - whether you want to admit it or not.
Not to mention, of course, that many web developers are now using tools to make Flash even less 'necessary'.
what are the stats? And what "tools" are you talking about? New development platforms? I know adobe released new html5 for dreamweaver recently, even though it's apparently supposed to... kill flash...
I don't think that's the main argument at all. I think it's much more to do with the development tools and that web developers don't have HTML5 tools that come anywhere close to the capabilities of the Flash development tools.
Now Adobe has no competition, who is going to provide these HTML5 development tools?
this is a point that always seems to be completely missed.
When, and if, development tools are as good or better than what we have in the flash IDE, along with the powerful capabilities (along with less cross browser nonsense, another point missed often) then, we may really, start seeing a death knell being sounded.
But this is generally something developers are aware of. The storey is sooo much more than just the player.
good point.
last time I checked, flash is currently, flash CS5. It's a rather complex platform, the whole IDE, the compiler, the player, flex, etc etc. It's better to be clearer when you get into something, especially if you have very little knowledge about a platform you're talkig about.
ROTFLMAO.
So you're publicly stating that you can't tell the difference between a Flash player and the entire CS5 suite?
That's really pretty embarrassing.
ROTFLMAO.
So you're publicly stating that you can't tell the difference between a Flash player and the entire CS5 suite?
That's really pretty embarrassing.
you seem to have a lot of trouble with reading. It tends to derail a conversation. I notice I'm not the only one seeing this. Anyway. When you can get back on track, great. Enjoy your merry-go-round.